When does Toyota have a new powerfull engine?

[MfS]

The GT-S engine is about a year old now, isn't it about time Toyota comes out with a more powerfull (and more economical) engine? Lots of people are waiting for decent 3rd party addons like turbo's and s/c's, but I'm waiting for an engine upgrade from Toyota itself...

[Erik00AutoGT-S]

I would rather have a more powerfull and a less economical engine! ;-)
Usually, powerfull and economical are opposite. It's like tires. Difficult to find a more grippy high performance tire with longer wear life. A good compromise would be a much more powerfull engine, as economical.

(Don't mean to flame here)

[wingzeroliquid]

Historically, a celica generation lasts about 4-5 years. Due to the popularity of this car, I don't think you'll see a new engine for at least 5. Your best hope is that Toyota could put out a factory turbo version of the current engine, like it did with the Celica GT-4 about a decade ago.

Liquid GTS 6spd

[z12f09]

thats exactly what i was thinking, if i keep my car that long, maybe a swither-u would be the best thing.

[Fiero]

Long ago some Australian car mag posted that a 2.2L VVTL-I engine was in development. A few people posted some stuff to back it up. But then nothing has come out. Maybe for the next car.

[Maelfyn]

I'd really like to see them stuff a turbo in the MR2-S. It really deserves one if you ask me :) 2000 lbs and MR drivetrain? Oh lordie... the possibilities.

[Stories]

From what I've understood, Toyota never put the 2ZZ into the MR-S because of insurance reasons. The existing 1ZZ setup already makes the MR-S pretty quick because of its light curb weight and insurance isn't very friendly because of it, imagine adding more power to the existing setup, insurance would be ridiculous on it! You GT-S owners probably know what I'm talking about.

As for the new engine family, I highly doubt that'll happen anytime soon... look at the history of the way Toyota builds their engines. The final generation of the "A" series engines was finally put to rest with the last generation Celica ('99 model year, the 7A-FE in the ST205 chassis), that span lasted way into the past, starting in the mid 80's with the 4A-GE (Corolla GTS in 85'). That's a span of about 14 years. The current 1MZ-FE in the Camry, Highlander, etc. has been in the Camry ever since (I believe 89'-ish?) and has just received many technology advancements (VVT-i, direct spark, etc.). The current ZZ engine family line was introduced in '98 ZZE110 Corolla (which was just succeeded by the '03 model), in '00, it received VVT-i... So if this is a gauge of how Toyota releases new engines... Heck, the Altezza RS200 still uses the 3S-GE engine, we've seen this since the early 90's in the MR2 Turbo and Celica Turbo All-Trac, it just received a dual VVT-i system. How long has the 2JZ-GE been out? Since '93 in the Supra and it's been handed down to the IS300 and GS300, in '97, the 2JZ received VVT-i as well...

[BigBad91Turbo]

You're talking about a more powerful engine from toyota. Don't forget about all the rumors of a MKV supra that have been going around. There has been talk of everything from a 5liter V12 from the jap market limo, to the lexus V8. You are more likely going to see a real powerfull engine get release in that class. Toyota now has the RX 8, Nissan 350z, and a new NSX to compete against. right now it really does not have anything in that class.

Toyota has historically allowed the other makers to test the waters while toyota has been recording the lessons of the others while refining what they already have in early developement. they have done that time and time agian with the Supra and early Celicas.

[bboyfranky]

I've got an idea for a Type-R ish Celica model all typed up. I just need to get a copy of it to the Celica R & D team in Japan. If anybody has a contact address or e-mail address, please hook me up. I think my ideas would at least get them thinking.

franklinj@bragg.army.mil

2000 GT-S, 6-spd
injen s ram intake w/RMM heat shield
TRD exhaust w/custom center pipe, TRD clutch, TRD LSD
Toms flywheel, B & M short shifter
Ground controls, Yokohama A-520's

[Stnicralisk]

bboy they already have one.. M- Spec.. its freakin sweet.. of course it will never be here.

[bboyfranky]

Really? Where did you see it? Let me know so I can check it out too.

[Speedmaniak]

Originally posted by Stories
From what I've understood, Toyota never put the 2ZZ into the MR-S because of insurance reasons. The existing 1ZZ setup already makes the MR-S pretty quick because of its light curb weight and insurance isn't very friendly because of it, imagine adding more power to the existing setup, insurance would be ridiculous on it! You GT-S owners probably know what I'm talking about.

As for the new engine family, I highly doubt that'll happen anytime soon... look at the history of the way Toyota builds their engines. The final generation of the "A" series engines was finally put to rest with the last generation Celica ('99 model year, the 7A-FE in the ST205 chassis), that span lasted way into the past, starting in the mid 80's with the 4A-GE (Corolla GTS in 85'). That's a span of about 14 years. The current 1MZ-FE in the Camry, Highlander, etc. has been in the Camry ever since (I believe 89'-ish?) and has just received many technology advancements (VVT-i, direct spark, etc.). The current ZZ engine family line was introduced in '98 ZZE110 Corolla (which was just succeeded by the '03 model), in '00, it received VVT-i... So if this is a gauge of how Toyota releases new engines... Heck, the Altezza RS200 still uses the 3S-GE engine, we've seen this since the early 90's in the MR2 Turbo and Celica Turbo All-Trac, it just received a dual VVT-i system. How long has the 2JZ-GE been out? Since '93 in the Supra and it's been handed down to the IS300 and GS300, in '97, the 2JZ received VVT-i as well...

I bet you they would sell a lot more if they had the option to put a turbo in it or the GT-S engine in it. I had a MR2 Turbo and yes the insurance was up in the hundred level but my GT-S is only Eighty bucks....I know what you are thinking..I must be 100 years old!!! No Im 22.. With full coverage!

[gts24]

Originally posted by bboyfranky
Really? Where did you see it? Let me know so I can check it out too.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/customize/celica/trdsportsm/

[Ackbar]

Originally posted by Stories
The current 1MZ-FE in the Camry, Highlander, etc. has been in the Camry ever since (I believe 89'-ish?) and has just received many technology advancements (VVT-i, direct spark, etc.).

The 1MZ-FE has been out since 1994 (mid-way through the 3rd gen Camry). Previously we had an iron block V6 (3VZ-FE) and the 3.4L V6 truck engines arose from that (5VZ-FE). There is also a 2MZ-FE that is available on a VERY limited number of cars, but it's a 2.5L engine and has 10.8:1 CR and still manages to produce around 200hp (not as much torque). My guess is that either a 3MZ-FE or totally new family name will come up with the next ES300/Camry engine upgrade (probably 2 years from now). I think Toyota will soon realize that people want more power, and the current engines available will just not cut it.

[bboyfranky]

Thanks, too bad I can't read Japanese. From what I could make out, It looks like they just added a bunch of trd stuff. What about the engine? Can somebody tell me how much HP 200psi translates to.

[bboyfranky]

Oops, I meant 200ps.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Toyota does have a V12 engine thats 400+ hp.

[Kit99bar]

looks to me the sports M celica is just a regular celica with a TRD exhaust, trd air filter (:ghey:), trd oil filter (:ghey:), and spark plugs

nothing much

[scapamouche]

200ps is about the same as 200 hp. Different measure, comes out the same.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

i don't think that there's going to be a lot of changes in the next celica engine. the 2zzg-e is fairly new and knowing toyota it'll probably be in the next gen celica with a few changes in hp and tq.

if they do decide to change the engine. i'd go with the altezza's 2.0L 4cyl @210hp and still have vvtl-i and program the 2nd cam to come in @5k with a fuel cut-off of 7600rpms. the benefits would be huge if that was the engine. better torque, horsepower and a wider powerband. imagine getting 210hp@7000rpms..

[phaqgm]

Originally posted by TRD Liquid Silver
i don't think that there's going to be a lot of changes in the next celica engine. the 2zzg-e is fairly new and knowing toyota it'll probably be in the next gen celica with a few changes in hp and tq.

if they do decide to change the engine. i'd go with the altezza's 2.0L 4cyl @210hp and still have vvtl-i and program the 2nd cam to come in @5k with a fuel cut-off of 7600rpms. the benefits would be huge if that was the engine. better torque, horsepower and a wider powerband. imagine getting 210hp@7000rpms..

If the 3S-GE had VVTL-i you could expect the power to be more in the 230+ range. You have to remember it is the only engine in Toyota's line up that has DUAL VVT-i, and it is making over 100hp/liter witout any cam lift stages.

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by phaqgm


If the 3S-GE had VVTL-i you could expect the power to be more in the 230+ range. You have to remember it is the only engine in Toyota's line up that has DUAL VVT-i, and it is making over 100hp/liter witout any cam lift stages.
Thats the one that the altezza is using correct?

[Stories]

Yeah, the 3S-GE is in the Altezza RS200, produces 210HP and 157lb-ft in stock format, it has 2.0L of displacement and as phaq said, it has a dual VVT-i system, on both the intake and exhaust ports for optimal performance. Adding a second set of cams for the high RPM range will probably add another 20HP to the maximum HP level, so 230HP doesn't seem all that far out of reach...

[bboyfranky]

Toyota could drop the 3S-GE into the Celica as is and it would run with the next 220hp RSX Type-R. We would get an awesome car, and it would be a simple drop-in for Toyota. (Well, except mating it to a front drive tranny would take a little work.) There wouldn't be any mid-range power lag either. Right now I wish I could walk into the Toyota head man's office screaming at the top of my lungs, and jumping up and down on his desk. (Anybody else down with a field trip?? LoL!!!)

[CIN]

But it would make the car heavier ;)

[bboyfranky]

It wouldn't be by much, it's still a 4 banger. It's not like a V-8 swap.

[Backroads]

These calls for more power bug me just a bit. I have two other cars which have more power than my GTS. I only drive the GTS regularly, because I like the overall feeling of the car. Most cars, from the GTI to the Mustang GT, are getting more powerful. The Celica is the only car that I know of that got 100lbs lighter in the 7th gen... to within 100 lbs of the first gen car of the 70's. It also got voted Consumer Reports 2nd most appealing sporty car and the 6th safest small car. These days. all cars are getting heavier (read Car&Driver editorial this mo.). You can always buy a more powerful car. A less peaky car. Personally, I need a 6 speed to work as I drive, and a speedo that doesn't just read what I want just as soon as I think it. I have no big ego with other drivers, and suspention is more important for speed than power on the backroads I live on so no one has kept up with me yet. I like working the revs... the kind of guy who would take a Boxster "S" over a 996 Turbo, for example. Shifting, drifting, workin and workin the powerband... I love it and I love my peaky Celica. Also, having had a 4A-GE car, I have always dreamed about having 170 hp in a 2500 lb Toyota, so my dreams are more than fulfilled with 180. (the X melted the Corrola GTS motor before all the hks parts were on!) Also I think a lot of people who want more power in their Celicas are just car enthusiasts looking for any and all mods. It's fun and rewarding to do some things in life yourself. This part of the forum wouldn't be as popular if the Celi had more power, for example. Just my opinion. The 390hp Mustang Gt comes out next year for people who would prefer that. They don't make the Supra (originally a Celica don't forget), anymore for a reason. Don't take offense at me... it's good that some people like the Celi's quirks, even if they could drive other more powerful cars.

/////////////////////////GTS/////////////////6sp///////////////////////////////

[Cabel]

I think I like what backroads said. I guess my only wish is that in time the Celica will catch a broad band of intrest and parts will be developed to the likes of options that you have for your typical Honda.

Now that would be fun! Having more power is great, but being able to create more power by tweaking and tuning, well that's exciting.

[Backroads]

Wow, someone actually liked something I said! Amazing. Hey, I'd take 20 x tra factory hp's pretty quick.. don't get me wrong. 100hp/liter is still the best in the industry now. As for Hondas, isn't it nice we have the top-of-the-line, while the Si-R is unavailable in the U.S. No one likes a rev limiter but at least we get the GTS!