GT vs GTS (for nxracer)

[autxr]

Well, lets lay it out here. Aaron and I both drove a well prepped GT this weekend, and both ran near to our GTS times. Neither of us drove it enough to see if we could do better, but I think we know that we would get faster (just not how much).

So, what did I notice?

The car handled virtually identical to mine, braking was comparable too both things expected).

Off the line I can't say I noticed it being appreciable faster, but I will say, first gear is MUCH more usable.

In the GTS I find I will short shift into 2nd if there is anything other than a straight line for acceleration.

Vs. this short shifting is where the GT really shines. In the GT I was able to rev out first without getting the annoying GTS surge, and the engine braking at the more modest 6900 rpm is less severe, so modulating first is a bit easier. I could power out of a turn in first gear no problem in the GT, without the excessive wheelspin of the GTS. Wheelspin at 5000 rpm in the GTS means you hit lift and surge to 8000 rpm, so modulation is much more difficult. In the GT you can lift a little to regain traction without having a 15 hp change in power.

Additionally, if I were to shortshift the GT, I know it would pull better at the lower revs than the GTS.

So, I'll be honest. Getting 9 or 10/10ths out of a GTS will be much harder than getting the same out of a GT. What this means is an average joe like me might be faster in a GT...

Our course on Sunday likely would have favored the GTS (or made it even), there were several sections that I could actually rev out first and rev to the end of second in aa relative straight line.

On a tight course, I would start to favor a GT...

I didn't get a chance to check Aaron's opinions, but opefully he will chime in (if he isn't looking to trade for a GT already).

Scott

[Celica RZ]

see, I knew it! I knew the GT was better for autocross than the GTS!

That's why I'm building mine for a road course.

[B1mmer]

Yep. What Scott said is right. I now understand what you GT drivers are talking about. I feel that with experience, the GTS, can be faster on most courses. The GT is just a much easier car to handle early on. Power delivery is smooth and predictable, and the handling characteristics are identical to the GT-S. It actually peaks my interest on the base RSX, with it's 160 hp. Either way, I won't sell my GT-S as of yet. For an all around street car, it's a blast. :cool:

[nxracer]

My source in the Honda world (x87 CRX driver who just bought Zeisler's GT) says the GT is better then the RSX in handling and power delivery. Remember the RSX and RSX-S do not have a LSD but there is already a TSD for "crash bolts"

[Raymund]

I've driven a friends celica gt and would have to agree that from 0to50mph the gt has the advantage especially for autoXing. I think, the gt is already a proven winner! It's a well-rounded engine and there are no weak spot through out its rev range.

Road racing, were 3rd and 4th are usually used through out, the gt will have the disadvantage. Still its not much and at the amateur level, the gt is competitive against the gt-s.

[nxracer]

These are the kind of things you have to say in your letters to SCCA if you want the GT-S to be re-classed for 2003. As Rob stated before SCCA just assumes the car should be better than a GT hence it goes into DS. They made this same assumption with the 9x GT and ST and look where they are now, both in GS and what car wins? usually the whimpy ST

A have spoke with Howard and rest assured no class change will happen in 2002 but if letters are written during the season the groundwork is there for 2003.

As for Road Racing (SCCA type) The GT-S runs in SSB and GT runs in SSC. I have only seen 1 GT-S do well and IMHO Nick has done very well the last two years at Runoff's. Also IMHO (again) the GT would make a very good SSC. car.

Just so you know in my book Road Racing = SCCA legal cars not Track day suspensions.
SCCA legal Showroom stock cars are allowed less modifications then Solo II cars
Most Track day cars fit nowhere in the SCCA rule book.

Besides Road Racing is more fun in one of these
http://members.home.net/mark.hirt/specracer/images/specracer05.jpg

[autxr]

Actually, a track day car can fit square into the middle of SCCA regs. Improved Touring.

Of course that isn't a national class because too many folks would come out and play (the SCCA has to keep up a bit of an elitist image).

But, the new Celica isn't IT leagal yet (not old enough).

You could mod a GTS and run it in a GT class if you wanted. No rules agains running uncompetitive cars (only in F1, right?)...

I was more than dissapointed to hear that the GT3? GT2? (I forget) Celicas were actually running a Formula atlantic engine (is this the case)? Run a body style appropriate to the engine, A series engines didn't go into the 7th gen.

Also, I think the Goody's dash series is a bunch of bull. There has never been a V-6 Celica ever (overseas the did get some V-6 2nd gen Supra models I believe, but not many).

Scott

[Raymund]

Actually, any kind of racing is fun as long as competttion is fair. Considering what some of you will be experiencing in 2002, you should know what I mean.