YAMS (Yet Another MisShift)!

[onyx]

doh! I lent my car to a friend for driving me to the airport. I found out on the way back to the airport to return home that he'd been racing a friend (i don't have a problem with that) and he misshifted from 3rd to 2nd (i do have a problem with that!).
he said that after it happened, he went to a stopsign, where it sputtered and died. He said he could start it, but it woulnd't stay started.

so, after putting the stock airbox back on, I had the dead-ass celica towed to the dealer. They told me that there's no compression, and that they'd have to do a total teardown of the engine. I told them that I was driving it 'hard' and that it just died.
I figure that the less they know the better.

Luckily this 2k celica is still covered by the factory warranty.
They're supposed to call me today and let me know what's up,
including hopefully getting me a rental.

I feel like a bird with clipped wings. Luckily I live with someone who works at the same place as me.

I wonder how long I will be without my celica. grrr.

[MeGaXmAn27]

sorry to hear about the car.. but this is what i learned.. trust no one with ur baby.. unless he's the son of bill gates and gots money to back it up =0)

[larryd]

hehe good luck.. the dealer isnt stupid.. im sure they know exactly what happened and what cuases the problem.. just hope there cool about it cuz they dont have to cover it

[X-EVIL-X]

i didn't have my car for 2 1/2 months when this happened to me last october.
dont let people drive your car...
i remember it happening and the tach going up to 9k.
the engine was screeming it was so loud.
scared the sh*t out of me

[WillyK]

This is exactly why I never let anyone drive my car, no matter who they are.

[MaasNeotek]

He... he could start it? So chances are you only bent valves.

When I did mine, I saw the tach pass the end of the sweep (10+)

Lost all valves, timing chain, oil pump exploded, destroyed the pistons, mashed the cams. 5 weeks to repair.

They just rolled me into a new car instead. :)

Now there is only 1 person that I allow to drive my car. My partner. (no - I'm married to a WOMAN.) BUSINESS PARTNER - don't you go getting funny ideas.

With him, it's cool. He's a better driver than I am - and if he kills my car, I get his race prepped 500hp Supra. :)

[onyx]

just talked to someone in service at the dealer.
He said that they just got authorization to get:
-a new shortblock
-new valves
-a new head

for my poor f'ed up baby. but all under warranty!!!!!
whoooohooooo!!!!!!!! I don't have to sell one of
my friend's kidneys!!! ;)

they also said that it should be ready by the end of
the week?!?! I kinda don't believe that one, but
whatever.

so that basically sounds like most of a new engine to
me. Am I mistaken here?

I feel soooo much better.

[Drew]

Originally posted by onyx
just talked to someone in service at the dealer.
He said that they just got authorization to get:
-a new shortblock
-new valves
-a new head

for my poor f'ed up baby. but all under warranty!!!!!
whoooohooooo!!!!!!!! I don't have to sell one of
my friend's kidneys!!! ;)

they also said that it should be ready by the end of
the week?!?! I kinda don't believe that one, but
whatever.

so that basically sounds like most of a new engine to
me. Am I mistaken here?

I feel soooo much better.

I would stil make his as$ buy you something nice...like a Veilside Body Kit...he is the one who f'ed your car up...only fitting.

[X-EVIL-X]

thats what the dealer told me week after week.
it will be ready next week, next week, next week........
bastards. i know its my fault and i take all the blame for it.

[Kit99bar]

yah nobody revs my car over 6K but me cuz I dont' think they are able to handle the tight 6 speed gates

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by onyx
just talked to someone in service at the dealer.
He said that they just got authorization to get:
-a new shortblock
-new valves
-a new head

for my poor f'ed up baby. but all under warranty!!!!!
whoooohooooo!!!!!!!! I don't have to sell one of
my friend's kidneys!!! ;)

they also said that it should be ready by the end of
the week?!?! I kinda don't believe that one, but
whatever.

so that basically sounds like most of a new engine to
me. Am I mistaken here?

I feel soooo much better.

Great news that it's covered under warranty. Maybe you should ask if you could keep the blown engine and donate it to a company like Skunk2 for development. Hehe. Just a thought.

Skunk 2
Makers of some engine components and coilover systems.
website: www.skunk2.com
Mail:
25710 Industrial Blvd #2
Hayward, CA 94545
Phone:
510-781-0538
Fax:
510-781-0539
Email: info@skunk2.com

[onyx]

if Skunk will take care of picking it up and moving it and all that stuff, I'm totally willing to let them have it.

I don't particularly want to haul a dead-ass engine around in the back of my celica, though, especially not all the way up to the 510 from 858/619. I have no idea if they will even keep it, though. I'll ask about it when I talk to them tomorrow, though.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by onyx
if Skunk will take care of picking it up and moving it and all that stuff, I'm totally willing to let them have it.


If you get that engine, I'll call Skunk2 and ask if they're interested. Email me and let me know what you want to do: hatethanet@aol.com . Thanks for the help.

[onyx]

Keyshawn,

I'm sorry man, when I talked to them this morning they said they had already disposed of the blown engine. They're moving really fast on getting this repaired, I'd have to say thus far I'm impressed. we'll see how long that holds, though.

[onyx]

did anyone else who got an engine replaced have problems with it afterwards? just curious.

NOT looking forward to going through the breakin period again. that nearly killed me the first time. I guess this won't be quite so bad, though, since I'm already familiar with the car (it's not totally brand new to me)

[hashiriya14]

Sorry to hear about your celi. Here is one tiup for anyone who blows an engine. Intake exhaust mods do not void the warranty, but if you don't reset your ECU when you blow it, they will know exactly how you did it. The ECU will store the info and it will show your spped RPM and gears you went from and to. I know this form when one of friends blew his celica gt-s, they said no big deal and reset the ECU before sending it to Toyota for the warranty check. Since he blew his engine his car doesn't run right, he has little problems here and there. However I think he may have ended up with the 190hp JDM engine cuz it moves and the lift hits harder than any other gt-s i have driven.

[onyx]

yeah, I made damn sure that I reset the ecu before returning it to the dealer. :)

what's a JDM engine? and why is is ~10 hp stronger?

thx!

[hashiriya14]

"what's a JDM engine? and why is is ~10 hp stronger? "

JDM stands for Japanese Domestic Market

The only reason it is 10hp stronger is because they make the cars just a little faster in Japan. The do it with minor things such as different cams and gears, timing, fuel pumps...just little things they don't do over here.

[onyx]

punks. keepin all the cool stuff for themselves. :)

I wonder if the dealer will replace my ecu with the new one with the rev-limiter. I would understand if they did, but I sure hope that they dont.

[infinitegts]

Onyx Important Read:::

Sorry to hear about that bro:

When i turned my Misshifted Celi in they told me the following
1) many of the rebuilds do not run well because often when there is bent valves, and piston/valve head tapping metal fragments may yet remain in the engine
2) these fragments are very difficult to remove even with an engine flushing- and they often lead to the Lift not engaging as the sensors are VERY sensitive to any foreign matter
3) new policy (at least in WestCoast) is to replace the engine outright with a new engine from Japan- thats what im getting- as it is the ONLY way to be sure your car is as good as new

- my advice is to ask them about their rebuild policy and to contact TOYOTA. they told me once they tried to order the parts that TOYOTA told them to replace engine +Period!

If you care about your Celi, at least call Toyota and your dealer ASAP and tell them this news. I can vouche as can West Covina Toyota...

[onyx]

infintegts,

yeah, I talked to them, I am getting a new engine.
well at least I'm getting a new shortblock, new valves, and a new head. is that what you mean by rebuild?

will this take care of it? I assume that this takes care of any sort of shards of past dead engines...since the old valves, pistons, rods, etc will be thrown out...

thx for the input!

steve

[infinitegts]

Well as i have been told, the engine comes already assembled, all they would have to do is drop it in and wire it up. They come on crates from Japan pre-assembled as if to drop it in a new car.

I doubt highly that they would buy a new head, valves, block... and then take all the damn time to assemble it when they are paying for a new engine anways..Sounds fishy. Maybe they meant a whole new engine, but like i said theyre supposed to come already assembled on a boat...

[miklo2411]

onyx I can pretty much clear everything up for you. I just got my car back from a misshift and from what it sounds like you messed up the same things I did. They replaced the short block, head, camshaft No 1 and No 2, and a whole lot of other stuff. Basicly rebuilt the engine. They do not order a whole new engine that comes in a box and then they just drop it in. As for my car it has lost some power. They also replaced the transmission (well rebuilt the trans) and now when I go into lift the clutch get stuck to the floor board. I have to take it in tomorrow. They also put some spacers of some sort in the transmission which makes it harder to misshift but it does slow down the shifting. It also is hard to fine any of the gears. I hate the new trans but like I said Im taking it in tomorrow to see what they can do about that. If you have any other questions it will be easier to just call me so I can explain in detail. Hope this helped out a little. Here is my number just in case 760-865-1562.

[SpankinGT-S]

How do you reset the ecu?

[onyx]

SpankinGT-S - you just unplug the battery...and it forgets that your poor car was revved to a billion rpm. I've heard that you have to unplug the negative terminal, I just unplugged it completely.

miklo2411 - thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to call in and find out more details on what's being done. I know it's not a brand new-right-out-of-the-box engine, however. I guess it is rebuilt in some form or another. I didn't hear anything about transmission, for mine, though. I'm a little worried about there being damage to the transmission.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by onyx
doh! I lent my car to a friend for driving me to the airport. I found out on the way back to the airport to return home that he'd been racing a friend (i don't have a problem with that) and he misshifted from 3rd to 2nd (i do have a problem with that!).
he said that after it happened, he went to a stopsign, where it sputtered and died. He said he could start it, but it woulnd't stay started.

so, after putting the stock airbox back on, I had the dead-ass celica towed to the dealer. They told me that there's no compression, and that they'd have to do a total teardown of the engine. I told them that I was driving it 'hard' and that it just died.
I figure that the less they know the better.

Luckily this 2k celica is still covered by the factory warranty.
They're supposed to call me today and let me know what's up,
including hopefully getting me a rental.

I feel like a bird with clipped wings. Luckily I live with someone who works at the same place as me.

I wonder how long I will be without my celica. grrr. Explain to me why dealers are supposed to cover this crap? It's like me expecting the dealer to cover the damage for when I lost control and hit a curb. Driver error that lead to damage. That's not a warranty issue. Would Toyota buy you new body panels if the mis-shift caused damage to them? Mis-shifting is driver error and nothing more. I'm sorry you're going to be without your car, but if they are footing the bill, then don't complain about how long it takes.

[QWKsilvr808]

All I can say is that I'd kill to have your dealer here in Hawaii.

[yakkosmurf]

What problems have you had there in HI?

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf
Explain to me why dealers are supposed to cover this crap? It's like me expecting the dealer to cover the damage for when I lost control and hit a curb. Driver error that lead to damage. That's not a warranty issue. Would Toyota buy you new body panels if the mis-shift caused damage to them? Mis-shifting is driver error and nothing more. I'm sorry you're going to be without your car, but if they are footing the bill, then don't complain about how long it takes.

Yakko, I always thought you considered misshifts to be a product of some defect in the Celicas. Could you clarify?

[onyx]

yakko -

when so many people are having misshift problems, and toyota has a tsb about replacing the springs in the shifter, then I think they've basically admitted to a design flaw which leads to misshifts. that is why I think they should be paying for it. and I haven't been complaining about how long it takes, I've been overjoyed at the fact that they are telling me it will only take one week total. skeptical, but overjoyed.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


Yakko, I always thought you considered misshifts to be a product of some defect in the Celicas. Could you clarify?
I had simply stated that the misshift numbers could indicate a problem with the design. A poor design is different that a defect. A defect is a problem with the manufacturing of a part or group of parts. A design flaw is a problem that is in the design itself. In the case of the 6-speed tranny on the GTS, I think the problem is a poor design, but not a flawed one.

There are many different schools of thought for how much idiot proofing you need in a design. It all comes down to what you're going to be held responsible for and the impacts to failure. Toyota is choosing to take responsibility for misshifts. I'm not sure why. If some people were having problems hitting the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal because of their close proximity, would that be a design flaw? Some older Ferraris had funny pedal locations that were different. If someone pushes the wrong pedal and runs the car into something, is that something that should be covered under warranty? Like misshifting, it's driver error. Could changes to the design minimize the likelihood of it ocurring? Yes, but it's not a design flaw. Just a case of the operator error.

[infinitegts]

Originally posted by miklo2411
onyx I can pretty much clear everything up for you. I just got my car back from a misshift and from what it sounds like you messed up the same things I did. They replaced the short block, head, camshaft No 1 and No 2, and a whole lot of other stuff. Basicly rebuilt the engine. They do not order a whole new engine that comes in a box and then they just drop it in.

OK Let Me Rephrase so as not to confuse:

When i took my Cel in it was around Jan15th. That new policy was only in effect starting that week. They said that in the past they rebuilt them but starting that week and with my car the would have to follow the new Toyota Policy and had no choice in the matter. From Toyota Corp. Any previous problems with overreving were obviously handled differently. The Mech told me that it was NOW the policy to drop in a whole new engine instead of rebuilding as to the problems they were having.

NEW TOYOTA POLICY effective probably around mid Jan

Please call West Covina Toyota if you do not beleive me. Im just trying to get you a new engine and according to them that is what you should get. Dont call me. Ill just tell you im right... right?
I was under the impression you just misshifted it. IS that right? if so you should be getting a new engine.

Miklo obviously had his problems earlier and i obviously wouldnt try to say the old policy was new enine from box as so many people have had them rebuilt. I thought i made that point clear that it was because of the bad rebuilds that the NEW POLICY was to drop a new engine in...

Good Luck

[onyx]

infinitegts - thanks for the clarification...it's crystal now. I'm gonna call the dealer now to find out about that.

[hashiriya14]

onyx

[hashiriya14]

onyx

i don't know about other people who bblew their celis. but hashiriya13 was told his would take at most 1 week. he had to drive a loaner (corolla) for about 45-50 days.hope you don't have to wait like that. everytime he called the dealership, they said "it will be here tomorrow" i couldn't imagine hearing that for over a month.

[hashiriya14]

onyx one more question. what dealership is your car at?

[onyx]

right - so it has begun. there are some parts missing (cams n stuff), which won't arrive 'til tuesday. So it's supposed to be ready next wed/thurs. whatever. I'll be out of town 'til then, so that's not a biggie.

it's at pacific beach toyota.

oh yeah, and they figured out that it was a misshift, and scolded me lightly. and told me that they were doing about 11 grand worth of work. whoa. thanks goodness for warranty coverage, or I'd be way out a car.

[hashiriya14]

thats funny....$11,000 huh? thats odd the complete gt-s engine only costs $8,000 and i could drop it in your car in about 3 hours or less. that adds up to about maybe 8,500 tops. good luck with every thing. one good note is i haven't heard any complaints about pacific beach toyota.

[onyx]

well, it's all done. I got my car back on tuesday.
it seems to drive just fine, and actually feels pretty strong.
I think after I've rebroken it in I may get it dynoed.

the total bill was NOT 11k, but a mere [ha!] 5.5k.
I'm sure glad Toyota picked that up for me.

I think I'm going to wait a while to put my CAI back on, in case
something goes wrong with the new engine.

[yakkosmurf]

Glad to hear you got your car back. I still can't figure why they should be paying for your mistake.

[Toxikk]

damn...