Harness?

[scapamouche]

Well here I am. The last mod I can see myself wanting is finally up. I'm looking for recommendationd for a harness.

I really liked the one you used, autxr; what was it?

The best bet I've found so far seems to be the Schroth 4 point harness that hooks into the rear belt mounts on the floor.

Is it feasible to hook up to the rear strut brace? I've got the NC.org 2 point bar with the two 3/4" parallel bars.

[autxr]

Yes, I use the Schroth Rally 4. I have some pics and a crummy instal guide on my page http://home.earthlink.net/~celica73

For autocross I think the rear bar would be just fine for mounting the shoulder straps, but not for a track event.

Scott

[Angelo]

autxr: I didn't expect it from you, you're running 4 point harness with no roll bar? Don't.

Angelo

[autxr]

I'm aware of the risks involved, that is why I keep it to the autocross course where speeds are low and the chance of rollover is even lower.

Scott

[Angelo]

Unfortunately you never know when you gonna roll over. Go sideways, hit a little crack in asphalt and you're done.... Why don't you get a roll bar?

Angelo

[autxr]

Roll bars interfere with things like daily driving, putting things in the back (like friends and possibly children, etc).

Not to mention, with a roll bar you should be wearing the harness and helmet all of the time. You have a much higher likely hood of cracking your head open on the bar during a normal crash daily driving than you do of rolling at an autocross.

Take your pick as to when you want to compromise safety.

Scott

[pitcrew]

We used a bastardized Simpson 5 pt harness in Driver's Celica.

[Raymund]

"Is it feasible to hook up to the rear strut brace? I've got the NC.org 2 point bar with the two 3/4" parallel bars."

that is a big NO! the bar might be stiff enough, but the 4 tiny bolts holding it in place is not. even if you are going to use it for autoX it will put too much strain over time and theres a good chance it may eventually rip off. mount it on the rear seat, seat belt mount if w/o a cage.

[nxracer]

The Celica's roof will not collapse during a roll. The one in this picture endO'd twice then barrel rolled about 4 times, the cops estimated the wreck started at over 100 miles per hour. Both driver and passenger walked away. One wheel ended up in a tree.

At one time this was an autocross car, a Chicago region member used it until his Spyder came in (it was the wife's car). Their son decided to test his driving ability on the way home from (in Sh.. you not) the "Fast and the Furious"

The Wife now has a brand spanking new Red GT-S and will be one of my students at our Solo II drivers school. The Son will also be at the school in his "riced-out" Civic (with some other instructor).

My second student will more than likely be the wife of the "new" owner of Jim Zeisler's GT

[Raymund]

OMG.. geez!!!

[Angelo]

That's pretty bad crash! I can bet roll bar wouldn't make a difference;( So Scott, are you saying I'll be fine with harness and no roll bar? I used to have Autopower roll bar in my E30 M3, and passengers could still get in the back.

Angelo

[autxr]

No, I'm not saying you'll be fine with a harness and no roll bar. I'm saying you will likely crack your skull on a roll bar if you are not wearing a helmet and harness and you crash (daily driving with a roll bar).

I'm also saying don't roll the car if you are wearing a harness and have no roll bar.

I'm willing to make the safety compromise wearing a harness without a roll bar - for autocross only. If I did track events, I would not wear the harness. Hell, even if I had a roll bar I wouldn't wear Schroth at a track event - I would get a 5 point harness.

Scott

[scapamouche]

Food for thought.
I'm not at all interested in getting a cage or rollbar, either.

Would you use the regular seatbelts for a track event, then? It's either a rollbar and harness, or no harness on the track?

[autxr]

If I did a track event I would wear the seatbelt and have less fun.

the more I tink about it the more I think I would not run a track event without a roll bar. Roll bar and a 5 point harness.

Of course after the track event, you now have a solid metal object in the car that is an enormous safety hazard during daily driving.

Scott

[brothermaynard]

Walked away heh... Very impressive. Ofcourse you can see that they didn't land flat on the roof. Different crashes are not all the same. A cage can be more or less attractive depending on speed. Excellent pic BTW.

[erok]

Why is a harness dangerous to wear without a roll bar? How is it more dangerous than a normal 3 point seat belt?

I've seen a few pics now of wrecked y2k+ Celicas and the passenger areas look to have held up very well in all of them. I'm really impressed by this given the small lightweight design of the car. The functionallity of a "crumple zone" design is very much in evidence in this pic. Good job Toyota!

[Unity112]

In cases of rollovers where the roof of the car actually collapses (without the support from a roll bar or roll cage), a four (or more) point harness, restricts the body from properly contorting itself to avoid major injury. The three point harness, will let you slip out of position just a bit to make your body bend the way it needs to. Note, this doesn't necessarily mean you'll walk away unscathed. You'll just avoid a few more injuries.

IMO its a full roll cage or nothing at all. Roll bars just arent effective enough and if your going to spend money doing that to the interior of the car, you might as well go the full mile. Thats just my opinion though.

[scapamouche]

So a three point harness has a Y joint behind the driver seat, correct? And a 3 point harness is seen as ok in a car with no cage or rollbar?

Doesn't the Schroth set have the same joint, only with the dual point connection below the rear seat?

[Unity112]

Right, but since for me, it will be strictly for autocross, I'm going to be getting the Schroth 4 point harness. The money is better spent, and I'll stay more put with a 4 point. For daily driving, however, I'd just use the simple lap and shoulder belt configuration. Just undo the buckle in the back and youll be set for some good daily driving activity without a comprimise in your safety.

But yes, if you get a bar or cage, I say 5 or 6. Autox 4. Anything else, just use the stock belt.

[scapamouche]

Alright... Thanks all.