Autocrosser vs Road racers

[Celica RZ]

two completely different breeds of racers? what do you guys think?

[autxr]

Mostly. There are a few road racers out there that decide to come out and play at the autocrosses and they are often quite good. The ones that aren't good at autocrossing are probably smart enough to know it and just stay away.

Scott

[Unity112]

Don't know if this is true, but its just a generalization I heard. Most good autocrossers can translate to be good road racers, but good road racers dont always make good autocrossers.

[Raymund]

I'll refrain from comment:)

[preparedcivic]

A good autocrosser will almost always make a good road racer. No one can say the same about going the other way. See the racing resumes of people in Speedvision GT and Touring like Neal Sapp, Shauna Marinus, Jeff Altenburg and P.D. Cunningham. Another analogy, told to me by a road-racer, in defense of autocross, was "it was like going out to attempt to win the pole on cold tires with no practice."

I have chosen to take autocross to a "means to an end" because I can readily, competitively participate in auto-x at the highest level. At this stage in my life with mega-hour job and family committments, I couldn't do the same with road racing, even with having a car (the Civic) that would only need the most minor installation of some safety equipment to be legal for SCCA GCR legal for road race GT-4 or F Production. I ran against Neal in the same auto-x class, and we ran the same type of car in the same class to almost identical times. If any Nationally competitive autocrosser put a similar amount of time, effort and most importantly, $money$, they could be at the front of the pack on TV too. I've seen a bunch of roadracers that I would be afraid to drive next to on the highway at the speed limit, and I'll include time-trialers in that statement too. So there.

Takes alot more to be fast around a racetrack than just being a hero on the straights...........

[SuperKoolGT-S]

"Two completely different breeds of racers? What do you guys think?"

That's right. Auto-X and Track Racers are different. You could liken it to other sports such as baseball and basketball. Each sport has a round ball that is used, but the games are completely different. A good baseball player may not make a good basketball player, but a good athlete will excel no mater what sport he/she plays.
To say an Auto-X guy will not make a good road racer or a Track driver would not make a good Auto-Xer is nonsense, but to each his own.

[Kendo]

Both autocross and road racers like to compete and test themselves against the competition. The difference is the amount of money the driver can afford to put into it. Most drivers cannot afford to prep a car for racing and have a life.

For myself, I took my daily driver and made it good for the track, but I don't officially race. Instead I do 7 or 8 open track events a year and get instruction from my more experienced peers on how to drive better. This gives me way more fun seat time than auto cross yet doesn't cost me the very expensive cost of keeping competitive in a racing bracket. It also means I can make almost any mod on my car and not have to worry about being bounced out of a bracket.

[Raymund]

Kendo, i feel yah.

I'm not hear to bad mouth autoX. I can see the beauty in the sport. I'll just share my reason to opt for track lapping.

Some people seem to have the perception that "road racing" is not an ideal place to learn good driving. I strongly disagree with this opinion. Why, are the turns different or is it the element of suprise that give the auto crossers the edge? Are we inherently challenge drivers who knows nothing of a cars handling trait? Is the slogan "smooth is fast" apply to auto crossers only? I'm sorry some people think that way. However, if you factor in track time as a #1 factor for improving ones driving abilities, i would have to say road racing gave me more seat time compared to what i would have gotten if i joined last years autox event. I attended 8 time trial events and logged in more than 18 hours of track time. not to mention, half of this event, i had the previlige to use a timer to better my times. Sure there are no organized points event in track lapping, but you can still compare times.

prepared civic you make a good point about some of the drivers you mentioned. I know for one Shauna Marinus is a great driver. she has won many national and divisional classes in her autox hey day. Yet in her current status as a SpeedvisionWorld Challenge Driver, it is weird that she has not fared as well with the closest credential being a five top 10 finish in 2000.

Now if you want to see where the good drivers come from you should check out these drivers..

http://www.schumacher-fanclub.com/top.htm

http://www.jpmontoya.com/En/biography.asp

sure they learned from go-karts, but its these go karts that are, no doubt, driven in road courses with repetitive turns that some auto-crossers look down upon.

[pitcrew]

One reason good AXer make good drivers is that we have to condition ourselves to looking well ahead on the course, making decisions and corrections on the fly, while attempting to drive at the car and course's limits. We don't get a chance to find the best lines and maximum grip by easing up to it over numerous laps. These are skills that are directly applicable to highway driving.

[Raymund]

agreed. i know that is one aspect track lapping falls short off. its almost road racing but with designated/signal passing. still your forced to interact with other cars.

road racing on the other hand is anything but repetitive (wheel to wheel). the fastest time around the track doesnt necesarly guarantee victory. there are times when an improper (early) apex is needed to protect ones position. exit speed is sacrificed for the right to take the inside line. there are even situations where you make your pass way ahead of time banking on a series of turns sacrificing some until one that will put you at the inside advantage. when you factor all the other cars involved in a race then the repetitiveness in road racing ends. you are consistently checking your mirrors and purposely driving different lines to protect your position. if you are trailing someone, you try different lines and experiment brake points and yet still able to maintain good corner exit speed. maybe this is why the sport got its reputation for being "hairy" drivers. road racing is not as repetitive as one might normaly think.

[nxracer]

There are really three category's Autocross, Lapping Day and Road Racing. I can only comment on the first and last.

Without my years of autocross experience I would not have been able to
A) Be faster than my instructor after three 20 minute sessions in a car I had never driven before.
B) Get my "ticket punched" after one SCCA school (the second school was waved by the Chief Steward)

Sorry to say I let my license lapse. If someone wants to give me a ride in another SpecRacer (no street cars for me) I'd be glad to do it all over again.

As I have stated many times I will not drive my street car "at speed" on any race track without proper safety equipment. My job at SCCA Road Races brings me to many accident scenes, it really works.

[SuperKoolGT-S]

All I have to add to this post is that Auto-X is a nice peaceful walk through the park compared to Road Racing. If you want real world driving skills, you will inevitably become a better driver pushing your cars limits at a race track, hot lapping with many hours of seat time. I'm in no way saying that one sport is "better" than the other, but if you are a novice driver and want to improve your skills, then I would say start out with Auto-X and then move over to some track driving after you get some basic skills. Then you will deiced with sport is better for you.

[Unity112]

This post is digressing quite a bit. I just simply heard its easier making the jump from autox to road racing than vice versa. One does not, and should not however say that one form of racing lacks more skill. Just different techniques used to get from the start to the finish.

[Celica RZ]

wow. there's quite the rivalry between the two it seems...?

neways I guess I would have to agree with unity112. jumping from road race to autoX is a lot harder than autoX to road racing.

I feel that I'm a road racer at heart but last year competing in autoX....that taught me quite a bit, but very frustrating since it does not seem to complement my style of racing. perhaps I'm still in the learngin curve, who knows but still....autoXing just doesn't speak to me nearly as much as road racing does.

[Raymund]

Originally posted by Unity112
This post is digressing quite a bit.

Agreed. I think, i made an ass out of myself.

for the record, i never once bashed autox. i simply argued some statements made about road racing.

[maxQ]

Not to rehash a dead horse... but this is the way I look at it.

In HS, I played the clarinet in a concert band. At band competitions, there would be two parts to the competition.

The first part was the prepared pieces that you have been working on for the past 3,4, 6 months (including a "warm up" piece/lap...). We would practice those pieces until we knew them cold, hot, and tepid.

The second part of the competition was sightreading. We were all led into a room where we were handed a piece of music that none of us had seen before. We had 10 minutes to look over the piece, during which no instruments were to emit a note. At the end of 10 minutes, we would perform that piece for the judges cold. (We were allowed to use our voices and often we would hum through the piece in time... i.e. a walkthrough...)

There were two types of people that shined in these competitions. Those that could perform a prepared piece to perfection, time and time again under any conditions because they have practiced it relentessly. But often they would have difficulty sightreading, simply because they required practice to really know a piece.

And then there were the people that I hated... who could pick up any piece at any time and play it perfectly the second or third time they saw it. They sometimes suffered from consistency, in that, while they could play the piece perfectly once doesn't mean they could replicate the performance whenever asked.

The practice people are the natural roadracers and the sightreading people are the natural autocrossers. Those that can incorporate the best qualities of both are the ones who excel in both.

Sorry for the novel...