Getting Blitz SC...few questions?

[hhhhasgame]

1st.... price!. who has the best deals
2nd.. what come with the kit? Is it the compressor only or does it come with the IC, piping, ECU, and fuel system upgrades?
3rd.. Installation. It it pretty simple or will i need to cut and splice wires and what not?
4th.. worth the hassle of paying big bucks and the labor?
Lastly...Who actually has one and what do you think about? What Gain with just an intake and full exhause system?


Thanks,
AJ

[00CericaRuss]

should come w/everything including a new oil pan where you relocate the alternator to.

price.. who knows

install.. most likely a day's job if you got the tools

worth it? not sure.. never ridden in one

[J5ISALIVE]

IN B4 THE MOVE!

[hhhhasgame]

wow...that helped..LOL

[J5ISALIVE]

well sorry, if you'd use your brain and post in the right forum i wouldn't have to say stuff like that. NEWB

[skatamatic]

i'd do a bit more research as it seems this thing isn't putting out as much power as a lot of people would like (i think one guy only got 197 to the wheels and another guy got around 220). i also think the price is $7600 according to trial's page which to me is just flat out crazy for 30 or 40 hp. the XS or SF turbo would make a good bit more power and would cost substantially less, so you might want to research those a bit more.
the good thing about the s/c is it might be better for daily driving and would possibly be a little safer, but i honestly don't think it would be worth it considering the results i've seen so far and the incredibly high price tag.

oh, and go here to find out more about this kit:
http://www.trial.co.jp/trial-usa/original/engine/celica/zzt231sc.htm

[hhhhasgame]

J5ISALIVE --- post in right forum??? Is the SC a performance mod? Maybe I should put it under electrical stuff since there are probably a wire or 2 that needs connected. Yeah i shouls put it under the Forced induction forum... but i didn't. Sorry



skatamatic - thanks for the insight. I can get the system for around 4500 so that's why i am leaning towards it. If the increase is only about 30 HP I doubt if i go for it.
Since it's belt driven, do you think a machined custom pulley for it would raise boost? I know in the older Mr2's the Sc's were boosted with larger crank or a larger SC pulley....HMM may have to research it.


Thanks,
AJ

[MicaCeli]

The reason that the peak HP is so low is that when the car hits lift the SC goes from like 7psi to 2 or 3 psi. The actual curve is crazy........you get like 120 whp at 4k rpm's

[J5ISALIVE]

Originally posted by hhhhasgame
J5ISALIVE --- post in right forum??? Is the SC a performance mod? Maybe I should put it under electrical stuff since there are probably a wire or 2 that needs connected. Yeah i shouls put it under the Forced induction forum... but i didn't. Sorry
AJ

I'm glad u see your faults ;)

[skatamatic]

yea, i didn't think about the torque curve rocketing up which would be a huge plus. only bad thing is i keep reading about that one guy with the kit loosing to stock or I/E GTS's and only running mid 14's, and with that much money behind the setup i'd want to easily be able to walk them. for the price you could get it for, it wouldn't be quite as bad though. good luck with your choice!

[marc]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
The reason that the peak HP is so low is that when the car hits lift the SC goes from like 7psi to 2 or 3 psi. The actual curve is crazy........you get like 120 whp at 4k rpm's

The guys in the UK said their superchargers pulled 6-7 boost steady throughout the RPM band . . . . . though I've heard people here saying the same thing you just said . . .

do you or ANYBODY on this board know how to remedy this problem ?

[Bimbleuk]

Guys,

I'm the Limey with the Blitz SC.

A roots blower will add a constant boost increase with revs to redline any deviation is maybe a sign of poor rotor sealing or a boost leak in the inlet?

My SC pumps 7PSI till the lift point then drops to exactly 6 PSI till redline. This is a most likely the result of VE (volumetric efficiency) increasing due to the high lift cam (9mm to 11mm lift if I remember correctly) also the valve overlap increases to approx 96 degrees so some charge is just blown out the exhaust manifold.

Maybe because I have the Blitz ECU as well they have done something with either the lift (don't think so cus there is a distinct power increase at 6K RPM) or possibly they reduce the valve overlap which would keep the boosted charge in the cylinders longer and hence keep high boost over 6K RPM?

As for the kit it is well engineered and comprehensive but yep basically bloody expensive. I believe you also get the Blitz filter, NUR spec exhaust system and the Blitz exhaust manifold as part of the deal. Luckily the kit was already on my car. I've added a BOV just before the throttle plate which relieves pressure over 9PSI when lifting off quickly. I also have an adjustable throttle switch set to 80 percent throttle opening. Like a kick down on an auto. I've also stiffened the top mount near the SC to counter the additional weight, highly recommended. One last detail the cam cover breather pipe is too close to the MAF sensor and gets sprayed with oil. I've fitted an oil separator behind the battery to cure this. Oh and the oil pan is much bigger than stock about 1-1.5 ltrs bigger.

I've had 2 power runs with the car at different places the results varied by over 20 WHP between the RRs so no conclusive result yet. I was trying to get a third independent result tomorrow but works getting in the way as usual.

I

[vvtlikick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bimbleuk
[B]...
I

[hhhhasgame]

Thanks BIM, I appreciate the info.
I e-mailed Blitz about the Sc unit and all they replied was that it would be out in Jan.... isn't it already out??? But the didn't give me anything else as far as that.

I plan on getting one when i can. I alos am working with a felow who has a machine shop in designing a larger crank pulley made of high strength aluminum. With thei I will be able to add more RPMs to the blower and get a few extra lbs of boost. I also plan on re-doing the headgasketr with a HKS metal gasket. I thinkk I will use a thicker one so I can bump the compression down a bit for the extra boost.

BIM-- does your cah have any fuel system upgrades? Will larger ingectors/ fuel pump be needed?



Thanks,
AJ

[MicaCeli]

TRIAL suplies these S/C's in the US. Call them and speak to Scott.

[ctkrider]

The kit that I bought from Trial consists of: roots type blower, blitz intake manifold, blitz intercooler, blitz oil pan, blitz filter, necessary piping and mounts, blitz spark plugs, trial header, trial titanium exhaust, and apex'i power fc

[celico_man]

Blitz S/C is already out but distributed by Trial. They sell it as a package including trial header and trial exhaust if am correct.

[gnes100]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bimbleuk
[B]Guys,

I'm the Limey with the Blitz SC.

A roots blower will add a constant boost increase with revs to redline any deviation is maybe a sign of poor rotor sealing or a boost leak in the inlet?

My SC pumps 7PSI till the lift point then drops to exactly 6 PSI till redline. This is a most likely the result of VE (volumetric efficiency) increasing due to the high lift cam (9mm to 11mm lift if I remember correctly) also the valve overlap increases to approx 96 degrees so some charge is just blown out the exhaust manifold.

Maybe because I have the Blitz ECU as well they have done something with either the lift (don't think so cus there is a distinct power increase at 6K RPM) or possibly they reduce the valve overlap which would keep the boosted charge in the cylinders longer and hence keep high boost over 6K RPM?

As for the kit it is well engineered and comprehensive but yep basically bloody expensive. I believe you also get the Blitz filter, NUR spec exhaust system and the Blitz exhaust manifold as part of the deal. Luckily the kit was already on my car. I've added a BOV just before the throttle plate which relieves pressure over 9PSI when lifting off quickly. I also have an adjustable throttle switch set to 80 percent throttle opening. Like a kick down on an auto. I've also stiffened the top mount near the SC to counter the additional weight, highly recommended. One last detail the cam cover breather pipe is too close to the MAF sensor and gets sprayed with oil. I've fitted an oil separator behind the battery to cure this. Oh and the oil pan is much bigger than stock about 1-1.5 ltrs bigger.

I've had 2 power runs with the car at different places the results varied by over 20 WHP between the RRs so no conclusive result yet. I was trying to get a third independent result tomorrow but works getting in the way as usual.

I

[Bimbleuk]

Guys,

Basically the Japanese guys are real clever with what they can do with engines and electronics but never bother to tell us mere mortals!

Over here I use Shell Optimax which is a highly refined fuel with proven cleaning detergents and a RON rating of 98.5

The fueling is not augmented with anythig that I can see i.e. rising rate regulator, fuel pump or 5th injector and as it runs fairy rich above 6K RPM (.75 lamda at worst) the factory fuel system seems to cope. The Blitz ECU must have something to do with my higher boost levels but at over $1000 it bloody well should do!

Don't assume a low PSI figure is all bad as boost is basically a measure of compressed air unable to get into the cylinders. It takes a lot of work to compress air which generates heat. If you are getting 200WHP on 5PSI boost then you have a real efficient engine.

Want an example? OK, my MR2 mk1 supercharger had 8 PSI stock = 145HP. With a bigger pulley fitted, 12-14 PSI = 180HP.

Good gain for a simple mod on a 1600cc but the supercharger was really loud as it struggled to force all that air through the standard head, valves and cams.

Final spec of 1800cc, flowed head, big pulley and HKS cams produced 210HP at 10 PSI and a much less stress on the old roots blower :)

Ok lesson over

[satur9]

damn everyone is *****ing over the price but if it comes with oil pan headers,exhaust and power fc its not that bad . still pricey but not that bad. and to the english guy who said it was already on his car. are you sure it didnt come with larger injectors the power fc would control them and that seems the logical choice.

[gnes100]

no the blitz kit did not come with bigger injectors and yes it does seem to run fairly rich over 6 k still soo i think the stock injectors are sufficient .. my kit was 6990 bucks with header and supercharger kit ....

[gnes100]

Originally posted by Bimbleuk
Guys,

Basically the Japanese guys are real clever with what they can do with engines and electronics but never bother to tell us mere mortals!

Over here I use Shell Optimax which is a highly refined fuel with proven cleaning detergents and a RON rating of 98.5

The fueling is not augmented with anythig that I can see i.e. rising rate regulator, fuel pump or 5th injector and as it runs fairy rich above 6K RPM (.75 lamda at worst) the factory fuel system seems to cope. The Blitz ECU must have something to do with my higher boost levels but at over $1000 it bloody well should do!

Don't assume a low PSI figure is all bad as boost is basically a measure of compressed air unable to get into the cylinders. It takes a lot of work to compress air which generates heat. If you are getting 200WHP on 5PSI boost then you have a real efficient engine.

Want an example? OK, my MR2 mk1 supercharger had 8 PSI stock = 145HP. With a bigger pulley fitted, 12-14 PSI = 180HP.

Good gain for a simple mod on a 1600cc but the supercharger was really loud as it struggled to force all that air through the standard head, valves and cams.

Final spec of 1800cc, flowed head, big pulley and HKS cams produced 210HP at 10 PSI and a much less stress on the old roots blower :)

Ok lesson over

the reason your car didnt show big gains with the increase in boost is because it has lower compression im guessin

[Bimbleuk]

Guys,

Definitely no additional injectors as GNES100 confirms. I'm in contact with Kevin who installed the kit just before selling the car to me so I can confirm the extent of the engine mods.

The turbo kits produce a whole lot more torque mid to high RPM and so would probably require additional fueling. The SC kit just adds a percentage across the whole rev range so the fueling is much easier to predict and a simple fuel rail pressure increase would go a long way to fueling it correctly.

Seems the stock fuel system has enough reserve to cope with the modest power increase from the SC kit.

Justin

[gnes100]

im kinda interested in comparing the numbers i got from my charger here in the states to the numbers u are gettin ... and as to what your hp and tq curves look like

[Bimbleuk]

To get a proper comparison I need to find a dynojet RR to get similar results to you guys. Problem is no one has them over here cus they practically prehistoric (inertia only that is) and totally useless for acurate engine mapping. Anyway I've scanned in a graph from a Dynapak power run which was produced on a mobile unit at a car show. I wasn't present so can't vouch for the diligence of the operator.

I'm still tryin to get a run on a another set of rollers this week. Seems some people actually want holiday this time of year!

I'm not familiar with this particular setup so all I can deduce from the graph is that there is a plot of 200.5 WHP but theres two different figures shown below, from previous runs I suppose? as for the torque anyone care to convert to lbs ft?

EDIT: Newer power graph added from a recent power run

http://home.btconnect.com/Elisesport/celicapower.jpg

[gnes100]

wow ur graph looks a lot like mine ... cept urs doenst have the jump at 5700 rpm that mine has

[gnes100]

http://nike.cecs.csulb.edu/~ggonzale/celi/leviDyno.jpg

[Bimbleuk]

Good to see some similar results.

[gnes100]

wow thats a lot different than the other dyno u had

[Rave669]

stock injectors are fine for the BLITZ SC, as they can already flow more than required from the factory. the power FC has a lot to do with it. Besides, on the GT-S (which is what I assume we're talking about, you're running low levels of boost (maybe a 5-7psi pulley, tops). so you wouldn't need a ton of extra fuel anyways.

[Bimbleuk]

Just shows the problem with using two different dynos to compare similar cars.

[gnes100]

http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/ctkrider/dyno2.jpg

ctkrider s dyno for comprrison to the rest

[marc]

Does anybody think that leaning out the top might give better results?

I know a lot of the superchargers are coming with PowerFCs, that's a powerful tool . . .