My transmission broke!

[Masayver]

I just got word from Mike that my tranny took a dump. He was doing the final testing on my car and set it for high boost and it just couldn't handle it. Looks like I'm forced to do the 6 speed swap, so it's not ALL bad. The car was gonna be dyno'd tomorrow too...

Mike estimated my car was probably making about 285 whp and 250 wtq, so let this be a warning to you GTers who are going for high power goals.

Mike isn't sure what exactly broke, as it just happened, so I'll post as I know more.

[nyoneway]

Not sure if the 6sp is any stonger than the 5sp. Usually in most cars, 5sp are made beefier than the 6sp.

Which ever you decide, goodluck.

[RADR1732]

It's a bitter sweet thing. I just heard the news too bro. I'm hoping to turn this into a good news for ya on monday. Talk to mike for details on how I plan to do that.

For those who has been a skeptic of this kit... this is proof that the kit makes power. It makes so much power that it will take out a tranny. Its safe for the the motor too, but the tranny just couldn't hold the extra torque.

Richard

[RichGT]

How did you pull so much HP? Was it with alcohol injection? What else do you have now? Nice numbers and sorry about the tranny..

[cool2miketlu]

yeah SF kit has that alcohol injection option.

[Masayver]

Well, Mike leaned out the big end a bit (it was running in the 10s:1) and I guess it was around 11.6:1 when the tranny gave out. I believe he was running alcohol and the fact that it was like low 50s/high 40s degrees F.

Richard: I definitely gotta ask Mike, cuz I have no clue what you're talking about.

[faultline]

I appaude your attitude!.....its the ..."when life gives you lemons, make lemonade" type of thing....and it looks like your heading toward a happy ending.....at this point though, dont you at least wish you were in your car when it was making that kind of power???!....who needs wings??

[RADR1732]

Originally posted by faultline
I appaude your attitude!.....its the ..."when life gives you lemons, make lemonade" type of thing....and it looks like your heading toward a happy ending.....at this point though, dont you at least wish you were in your car when it was making that kind of power???!....who needs wings??

I, as well as Masayver, trust Mike completely with our cars. He knows what he's doing and we totally respect that.

Richard

[cool2miketlu]

I just hope Mike help out with the cost of tranny and labor for the swap, its not going to be cheap. Since he is doing tranny swap might consider putting LSD in before doing the swap :)

[cmiguel32]

this is exactly what i was afraid of...

I'm curious as to what exactly failed...

[Masayver]

Absolutely. What's happened has happened. No reason to get all pissy and wish it never happened, because you can't go back in time. The only thing you can do is learn from the experience. No one knew for sure the limits of the 5-speed transmission, but now my car has provided some valuable data for others. We will definitely be more cautious with the 6-speed, which may or may not be stronger.

[cmiguel32]

Monkeywrench mentioned they have the means of making tranny parts they just need a tranny that's failed from too much power.

[Masayver]

Originally posted by cmiguel32
Monkeywrench mentioned they have the means of making tranny parts they just need a tranny that's failed from too much power.

Yeah, Mike had mentioned that when I talked to him. I would gladly donate my tranny to them, assuming the damage is not repairable.

[RADR1732]

Originally posted by Masayver
Yeah, Mike had mentioned that when I talked to him. I would gladly donate my tranny to them, assuming the damage is not repairable.

Even if it was repairable we should give them a crack at it. I'll let you know how thes respond.

As for Mike helping him out, I'm sure he will help him out on it cause he is a good guy. I look at it as not being his fault though. I don't know how Masayver looks at it, but Mike's goal is to creat as much power as he possibly can. Even if it didn't happen last night, it would have happen sometime down the road when Masayver is driving it because of all that added torque. All that being said, I totally applaude Masayver for reacting the way he has been. He realizes that valuable data has come from this and it he is looking into the possibilities of the future not the negatives of the past.

Richard

[faultline]

FYI I just checked over at car-parts.com..there is a 6sp for $950 in fresno, a 5sp for $700 in stockton, and a 5spd less than a hour away in sanfernando that says call for price..but just wondering why the 6sp??...your turbo pulls extrmely hard at 4k, you can land ther at every shift , even if you only rev to 6k...seems perfect w/ the 5spd....the 2zz guy need the shorter gears of the 6spd trying to land in the bottom of lift at an already high 6k.....Is the 6 spd something Mike Stafford thinks will work well????

[Masayver]

Mike feels that the 2002+ 6-speed should be stronger than the 5-speed. Also, it would be nice to be able to cruise at a lower rpm when I'm on the freeway....and the last but most important reason: for all the times I'll need to go faster than 140 mph :) j/k

Thanks for the info on the trannies and parts, faultline. I was looking for a way to check out prices. I'll give car-parts.com a look.

[Smaay]

what a bummer dude. I think i need to get a new tanny soon. my syncros are shot. well good luck with the new tranny. stay in touch

[aerospike2002]

Originally posted by Masayver
Mike feels that the 2002+ 6-speed should be stronger than the 5-speed.


I guess we'll see about that with my vehicle. I swapped in all of my stock components, just so we could see how long the 6-spd GTS tranny will last. Have no fear though, my TRD Helical LSD and RPS Max Clutch/Billet Flywheel are sitting in my garage ready to go back in as soon as my clutch takes the big dump!!!

[98RollaGyrl]

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif

[sean2sean]

yea i was there today.... and damn... the tranny sounded bad...

sounds like a handful of change jingling in ur pocket....

grinding.... clicking... dinging... some of the most awful sound i have ever heard comin out of a car...

i feel for you...

but hey... look on the brigher side... ur gettin a 6speed in there...

[Catalyst]

I pulled it into the shop after it broke (since mike parked it next to the fence). Man, it sounded like i was dragging the oil pan across the ground. It is now in the spot where that Civic Si was parked.

At least now all the people who were sceptical will know that the kit makes insane power. And they will all know that masayver's car was damn fast.

[SLUG_R_celica]

i gotta admit the car was insanely fast and making really good power but i was wondering masayver what you gonna do with your clutch?

[cool2miketlu]

sounds like sheered off a piece of the gear.... That piece is bouncing around inside. Hope it works out with the 6-speed, but I doubt 6 speed is any stronger than 5 speed.

[Locust13]

keep us updated on the tranny swap. I'm in the process of doing it myself. I've been looking for a tranny and researching what else needs to be done. I've been talking to a bunch of mr2 spyder guys who've done it but it seems like its alot harder for them to do the swap . Lots of people say they have the 6 spd in their GT but when you contact them about it they never respond or don't give any details as to drivability/ performance / etc.

[Calsoldier]

Originally posted by Masayver
Mike feels that the 2002+ 6-speed should be stronger than the 5-speed. Also, it would be nice to be able to cruise at a lower rpm when I'm on the freeway....

I believe that the 6spd and the 5spd have the same final gear ratios, so it won't change your freeway rpm range much in 6th gear. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Oleg

[sureFire]

Originally posted by Calsoldier
I believe that the 6spd and the 5spd have the same final gear ratios, so it won't change your freeway rpm range much in 6th gear. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Oleg

i think it does lower your freeway rpm... i have a 5spd and i'm at 3.2k rpm at 65 mph. any gt-s owners wanna tell us what rpm they are at at 65?

[Masayver]

The final drive is slightly different between the two.
http://www.everythingcelica.com/tech/2002celica.html

Manual Differential Ratio for GT is 4.312 and for GT-S is 4.529

Edit: Not sure what I'm gonna do with my clutch. Might get a different one, as I didn't really like the ACT. Anyone got some suggestions?

[aerospike2002]

Masayver,
Go with RPS Max Clutch. That's the one I have and I truly believe it's the best. It is the most streetable clutch that holds the most torque of any currently available for our vehicles.

330 lb/ft with only a 60% increase in pedal pressure. The engagement is butter smooth and not in the least harsh. This is due to the fact that it utilizes a street disk, rather than a puck disk. I still am in awe as to how RPS made a street disk setup that holds 330 lb/ft. Regardless, you know you'll be safe with it. I doubt that any of us will ever reach 330 lb/ft with our 2zz's!!!:chuckles:

By the way, go with MVP Motorsports when you order it. Ask for Jason - he'll hook you up. I researched all around and they have the best price around. Also, they have excellent customer service (from my experience).

Regards,
aerospike

[Illusive]

well....I'f your going to get the 6 speed, you need stronger gears and a stronger out put shaft.

I've gone through 3 count em 3 and i'm not even F/I. If you go F/i and you want a show car then the 6 speed should be fine for daily driving. but constant punching the throttle and abuse, will damage it quick. Much faster than I could go through em.

good luck

[Asha'man]

The european GT 6 Gear transmission will give you lower rpm than the GT-S 6 Speed transmission.

The GT-S transmission is shorter than the European GT transmission and with the GT you can reach bigger vmax at 7200rpm.

Too bad with your tranny. Makes me afraid of blowing mine, too. Good luck with you transmission swap and let us now how the story goes on!

[FL Honda Stompr]

unlikely the 6 is any stronger, both trannies use the same clutch and are made almost entirely of the same parts.

[cmiguel32]

I work @ my local hospital and these techs from EIP tuning came in here and we were discussing cars. I completely forgot about their white celica gts that dyno'd at over 300 hp. They were using TEC III as their engine management and the apexi avcr.. maybe the gear dependent boost control had something to do with the ability to hold that much horsepower? They told me the only thing modified on the trans was a quaife lsd and stronger clutch.. it's just a thought.

[Keyshawn]

I don't know if the 6 speed is any stronger than the 5 speed. The shop that replaced my original tranny ( http://www.anaheimgear.com/ ) said that the GT-S's 6-speed doesn't look very stout. Here are pics some of my old tranny. The ring and pinion (final drive) gear broke, sending chunks all over the tranny and thrashing it:
http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v23/Keyshawn/tranny1.jpg
http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v23/Keyshawn/tranny2.jpg

[marc]

how can we strengthen our tranny?

Cryo treating?
C-One gear set?

[Masayver]

Good info, Keyshawn. Maybe I'll just stick with the 5-speed and save a little money.

[cmiguel32]

Originally posted by marc
how can we strengthen our tranny?

Cryo treating?
C-One gear set?

That was my next question,
im trying to figure out what im going to do..
whether buying a 6 spd tranny and the c-one gears will
solve it or not.

[cool2miketlu]

How well made are C-One gears? Until someone buy it and find out how good they are doubt anyone can answer that question.
I say your best bet is cryo treat the tranny.

[Asha'man]

Can u please explain what cryo treat means?

I know that c2gas pushes his car real hard and he has the european 6 gear GT Tranny build in.

He drives at more than 1 Bar Boost and his tranny seems to handle the power well. Maybe he's just lucky or something else.

I'm not sure if the european GT 6 Speed is any stronger than the american 5 Speed or GT-S tranny.

CU, Asha

[0eurocelika2]

I'm worried now. I'm getting my parts now for a STG III C2 install. I know C2Gas hasn't had the chance to road test this but if I go with this it's almost certain that it's going to push 300whp.

Asha'man, where you from in GE? I'm from Bamberg, I'll be back there in 27 days. Have you ever been to C2Gas's place? I'm going to drive down there when I get back, to do my install if the weather doesn't stop me.

[Asha'man]

Hey,

I'm from germany right! Visit my community. Hey and lets meet somewhere sometime!! You've to visit our celica meet in this year.

Ok, to your questions:

No I never was at c2power before. But I really do trust this guy and I will be down there on 28.2. for two weeks to get my car done with STG II (K04-06 at 0.7 bar...hopefully with 250whp well tuned).

Did you order your stuff already? Otherwise we can order our stuff together and get better prices!

Let me know. Do you have ICQ? MSN?

Ok, sorry for getting OT!

CU, Asha

[sean2sean]

cryo treating things...

basically its a freeze dip...

i believe its -400 degrees f.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Masayver
Good info, Keyshawn. Maybe I'll just stick with the 5-speed and save a little money.

No problem, man. Hey, did you ever find out what exactly broke in your tranny? I wonder if it was the final drive, like mine.

[Darkside]

if ya got the bucks, levelten.com is all you need; COMPLETELY rebuilt trannies good for more horsepower than a 1.8 liter can EVER make

PTS pwns me ;)

[sean2sean]

Originally posted by Darkside
if ya got the bucks, levelten.com is all you need; COMPLETELY rebuilt trannies good for more horsepower than a 1.8 liter can EVER make

PTS pwns me ;)

oh really?

what do they do? i still havent gotten a good ans about that...

they dont change the gears to stronger ones... so how do they make a auto tranny handle more power? just by making the "fluid" move better?

[Darkside]

you're right, they dont make the auto tranny handle more power - they give you a completely forged new one that can ;)

as for the manual, their PTS system includes everything to make it handle insane amounts of power and if you are really worried about the gear box, they can make you a forged one according to the specs/gear ratios you give them

[RADR1732]

Hehe.... insane amount of power it can handle will translate to insane amount of money. Time to contact them for sponsorships... yeah right.

Richard

[Darkside]

Originally posted by RADR1732
Hehe.... insane amount of power it can handle will translate to insane amount of money.

correct ;)

this is for people with endless pockets :)

however, it would probably cost less in the long run to people like Illusive who keep breaking trannies....i'd rather pay the price of one and a half modified (clutch/flywheel/LSD) trannies for one that wont break than have to keep breaking and buying them...just some food for thought after a person breaks his tranny:

most setups on here:
1000 tranny + 800 LSD + 400 flywheel + 300 clutch = 2500

level ten setup:
1000 tranny + 800 LSD + 400 flywheel + 1300 PTS w/ gearbox = 3500

[RADR1732]

Wait... their PTS system is only $1K? That's not bad at all.

Richard

[Darkside]

nope, PTS is 600 w/o custom gearbox....that 1300 price was for everything needed to make the manual tranny essentially unbreakable (so not including LSD and flywheel)...it is only 600 for manuals because it is a rebuild, not its own custom tranny per se....it is 3200 for a completely hand-built auto since you throw away your old tranny and swap in the fully custom one - which is the one i have

i have the forged PTS auto tranny with sportshift, hydrosystem valvebody calibration, upgraded torque converter, and super pump fluid system....it all cost a little over 3500, but i guarantee you that my car is NOT limited in power by the tranny and shifts just as well as a manual except with 4 gears instead of 5/6.....the drivetrain power loss is actually less than the stock manual transmission cuz when i dynoed my GT after the new tranny was put in, it was 4whp higher than stock manual dynoes....my tranny will not break till well over 600whp which is waaaay more than is even capable in this 1.8L engine without something in the engine bay blowing up from such high compression

[RADR1732]

Wow that is awesome. What kind of services can they do to my tranny to make it bullet proof? Also if I invest in it, will my drivetrain losses be minimized just as your were in your Auto? Give me some insight.

Richard

[AznTwins]

Originally posted by Darkside
nope, PTS is 600 w/o custom gearbox....that 1300 price was for everything needed to make the manual tranny essentially unbreakable (so not including LSD and flywheel)...it is only 600 for manuals because it is a rebuild, not its own custom tranny per se....it is 3200 for a completely hand-built auto since you throw away your old tranny and swap in the fully custom one - which is the one i have

i have the forged PTS auto tranny with sportshift, hydrosystem valvebody calibration, upgraded torque converter, and super pump fluid system....it all cost a little over 3500, but i guarantee you that my car is NOT limited in power by the tranny and shifts just as well as a manual except with 4 gears instead of 5/6.....the drivetrain power loss is actually less than the stock manual transmission cuz when i dynoed my GT after the new tranny was put in, it was 4whp higher than stock manual dynoes....my tranny will not break till well over 600whp which is waaaay more than is even capable in this 1.8L engine without something in the engine bay blowing up from such high compression

How does the new tranny affect everyday driving? and with the sports shift system, do you actually get to change gears yourself? I'm looking for a auto tranny that can handle up to 300whp, and not effect my everyday driving too much.

[Darkside]

sportshift is just like the one that comes standard with the auto gt-s - you can put it in "manual mode" if you feel like it and press the buttons to shift, or you can just leave it on regular auto...the good thing about the hydrosystem valvebody recalibration is that it maximizes shift points so that it shifts faster and firmer and at better times than the stock one does....the upgraded torque converter is what minimizes drivetrain loss a lot

richard - yeah drivetrain loss will be minimizes whenever you put on lighter or more efficient tranny/drivetrain parts....that's why lightweight flywheels and pulley sets free up power like they do....i'm sure your aftermarket flywheel and such free up some of the drivetrain loss....as for what levelten can do, i already said pretty much everything in my last post - PTS kit, new gears, hydrosystem, etc just email them and tell them your tranny goals......get whatever you want but dont say i didnt warn you and they email you back with a pretty damn steep price ;)