1zz/2zz hybrid

[ZeroGTS]

anyone know information on how this motor is assembled?

i have a GTS....but im wondering what would need tob e done to it


just curious.

[gts24]

Somebody came on here at one point and said a head swap is pretty much impossible. that it mounts up completely different.

[celica gte racing]

If I remember correctly Trial tuning from japan adapted a 1zz crank on a 2zz to increase displacement to 1.95L and i think they ended up with something like 220hp

[BoyRacer]

Well i originally asked the question. i was wondering if its worth doing, or if it could be done. the general argument is that in theory it would work, but in all actuality its very hard. the two dont meet up. apparently in japan it was done. Spoolin claims he is working on it. no one has done, or acomplished it though here or in the US

[Stories]

We at CThree have been trying and wondering about this for a long time. The 2ZZ head is not swapable with the 1ZZ head, this is according to both a TRD rep and a mechanic from Toysport, they said the heads can't be swapped. I would think just stroking the 2ZZ to the size of the 1ZZ would increase the displacement enough to add the lower end torque the 2ZZ is missing?

[00CericaRuss]

I was lookin around for that trial thing..

looks like they took the 2zz block, and stuck a 1zz crank in there.

Not sure what rods they used for the 2zz pistons, but i think they may have had to swap them too... I can't get the pages translated properly on babel
http://www.huntingtest.com/modify/le-18.html
http://www.huntingtest.com/modify/le-19.html

[gts24]

thanks for the post celicaruss .. cool stuff. I think that if I could pull something like that off, i'd forget about any forced induction. It would just be enough for me

[gts24]

Email I got from Joe Alaniz (Keyshawn hooked me up with his information)
Dear Bryan:

Thanks you for taking interest. 220-235 to the wheel is possible but the combination would be something like this:

Big bore kit 84mm pistons wich means resleving the block. I have a machine shop that can handle this task. A good flowing head, and at least 12.5:1 compression ratio. I saw the stock header and man it need help. Big Time. The rods should be able to handle the RPM 9000 rpm max. Octane gas would be around 100. The problem is engine management. I will talk to Derek from Hondata he is the one who helps us out with Erick Agilars 10.71 et all motor and 260+ to the wheels 2 liter motor www.ericksracing.com . I do all the head work for Erick. I hope he can play with the ECU or inform me on other options. I tune and have MOTECs but $4500.00 for a engine management is more than what most are willing to spend. As for price....... I might say under $3500.00 Time wise about 1 month because of machining time. It would be nice for a change to see Toyotas putting out HP figures that can keep up with Hondas..

Joe Alaniz

[00CericaRuss]

interesting...

but... i'm thinkin in the 1zz crank in the 2zz, it's just gonna up the displacement, right?
or will the C/R be increased as well?

I'm just curious, cuz if you up the displacement, then throw the blitz s/c on, then you'd be talkin some pretty damn nice power

[icyjaws]

Originally posted by 00CericaRuss
interesting...

but... i'm thinkin in the 1zz crank in the 2zz, it's just gonna up the displacement, right?
or will the C/R be increased as well?

I'm just curious, cuz if you up the displacement, then throw the blitz s/c on, then you'd be talkin some pretty damn nice power
buy stroking the 2zz out to a 1zz length you get like ~1.92L engine and a CR ~12.2 i think i have a quick calc done at work. This is asumming you use the 2zz pistions of course.

[icyjaws]

How do i get it translted? the link is in jap. i guess.

[ZeroGTS]

awesome work guys!

i was inspired to revive interest in this after seeing and "working" on some LS/VTEC honda swaps.
i know these motors have it in 'em.
I would lay down a bunch of cash, but It will be up to six months before the money to do any of this kind of research is in my hands. (college costs)
Still, im overjoyed to learn all this great information.

Keep it comin!

[celica gte racing]

Originally posted by icyjaws
How do i get it translted? the link is in jap. i guess.

no its in thai. I read the original article in japanese

[00CericaRuss]

oh.. .that's in thai? THAT EXPLAINS WHY I CAN"T F'IN TRANSLATE THE SH1T!!!
haha... anyone got the original or know where it is?

I think they might be using the 1zz rods so that there's no valve lash... or at least that's what i gathere from the pic that looks like this
http://www.huntingtest.com/modify/trial-3zz2.jpg
and this
http://www.huntingtest.com/modify/trial-3zz1.jpg

so... if they use shorter rods, wouldn't it decrease the compression ratio?

just think.. this,w/a supercharger would be knucking futs!

[00CericaRuss]

hmm... found something on trial's site in japanese

http://www.trial.co.jp/whats_new/3zz/3zz.htm

still rather confused

[00CericaRuss]

looks like there's a few celis w/this kit
http://www.trial.co.jp/customer/toyota/toyota.htm

[00CericaRuss]

datasheet?
http://www6.wind.ne.jp/eden/celica/salon02/trial04.gif

[00CericaRuss]

well.. it appears as if there's quite a few "3zz"'s running around in japan in both celi's and mr-s'

who's got some extra parts?

btw.... i use http://babel.altavista.com for my translating

[komar]

so the 2ZZ with 1ZZ crank and con rods equals a stroker? or am i mistaken???..what si the block? 2 or 1zz

Kareem

[00CericaRuss]

I believe everything is 2zz minus the crank and the rods.. (not too sure about the rods, but that's what i'm guessing by the half ass translations and pictures)

Anyone got the original article in japanese?

[celica gte racing]

okay, from their site it says:

the kit includes:

crank, conrod, piston, crank end spacer ring, crank end oil seal and front spacer washer.

price circa 2500dollars

Custom ECU setting is required, engine block work required

http://www.trial.co.jp/whats_new/3zz/mrseg1.jpg
http://www.trial.co.jp/whats_new/3zz/mrseg.jpg

[icyjaws]

engine block work required? Well i guess its a good thing i got a spare one coming :) Which of the parts are 1zz parts and which are custom? Also its ~2500 but from where?

[MattTheTerror]

This is sexy :)

[ZeroGTS]

celica GTE...where is this orderable from?
is the powerFC avialiable there?
bc its a full ECU replacement, so the whole OBDII thing would be down the toilet.
modding would be much easier.

it uses custom rods and pistons or 1zz rods and pistons?

[00CericaRuss]

I swear it can be done w/2zz pistons, 1zz rods and crank, 2zz block and head.

If i could only get that damn article translated

[icyjaws]

yea be nice to see what they did. But i think your right on.

[ZeroGTS]

ill send the article to my friends in the business of finding JDM stuff....
brb

[ZeroGTS]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1ZZ stroke and the engine where the 2ZZ bore is mixed it is. (Considering durability, it has become the 2ZZ engine base.) Torque rise at entire area bodily sensation is possible. The processing and CPU setting of the E / the g itself become necessary in case of installation.
The torque impression of the trial 3ZZ KIT APEX power FC HKS high power muffler RECARO SP-G BLITZ air cleaner 3000rpm - the 6000rpm considerably has become thick! Throughout the city, to ride desire arising enormously, easily we would like to increase the punch power, of higher revolution is! It perseveres, - - -!

TRIAL 3ZZ kit APEX P-FC + FC commander HKS hyper muffler reforming straight one off production TEIN height pitch kit RECARO SP-G & SR

[00CericaRuss]

yeah.. get the idea.. but the idea isn't enough info... I've emailed them

[celica gte racing]

Well I don't remember the article... if someone has it in japanese, I can read it again and tell you guys more precisely. I am not sure if the kit is straight from the 1zz or a trial original. ordering?

I don't know, i don't think anyone imports to the US. I don' think trial tuning speaks english...

[00CericaRuss]

Trial tuning has a US rep and is possibly gonna set up shop in the US... at least that's what they said via email... waiting to get some more info back from them

[M SPEC]

After reading this tread about a stroker kit from Trial Japan for the 2ZZ-Ge from 1ZZ-FE internals got me thinking. If you could get it in a turbo/supercharged orientated internals in strengthened form(ie low compression forged pistons, nitrided crank and shot peened conrods). Add a Blitz Supercharger or turbo kit at the engine and the Celica would put down some very strong numbers on the track and have huge reserves of torque for daily street driving. Would be a costly excercise but the results would be pretty impressive.

Jason

[icyjaws]

don't forget to get the block resleaved cause running boost on that low a R/S ratio ~1.5 will cause alot of wall loading and you'll prolly blow the motor with even 6-7 psi

[djm221]

If I did the conversion right, that's 156lb/ft of torque peak.

[MSR27]

This has already been done in the US. I believe R.J Devera Engineering already developed a 2ZZ-GE and 1ZZ-FE hybrid motor. It is in RJ's MR-S. I was planning to do this but not enough information or know the right mechanic that will be able to do this. Just go TURBO!

[bastard]

ok.... this is all mind blowingly confusing for most, but i get the drift. anyways, i was wondering if you just get the lower compression pistons and throw them into the 2zz.. would lift kick in later? because i am under the impression (correct if wrong) that the lift is activated by the oil pressure. i just had a brain fart really, thats all. i just wanna know.

[veilside02celi]

Originally posted by MSR27
This has already been done in the US. I believe R.J Devera Engineering already developed a 2ZZ-GE and 1ZZ-FE hybrid motor. It is in RJ's MR-S. I was planning to do this but not enough information or know the right mechanic that will be able to do this. Just go TURBO!

RJ was actually doing a GTS swap with the 6 speed gear box and was at the time trying to get one of Chris Rados Turbo Motors that was built to hell and back... the MR2 has been wrecked (it was rearended from what i understand) and project has been put on hold. now there are only 3 of the veilside Mr2 spyders in the US, but i'm sure RJ will come back with something even more bad ass... he has alot of resources and nothing is out of reach of that guy

[1200TT]

actually the spyder hasnt been wrecked. It got rear ended, and the bumper was replaced. Its currently sitting in the VeilSide showroom. There were so many plans for the motor, but now a final plan has been finalized. Lets just say, it will and wont be too much of a surprise...but it should at least be putting down 290hp at the wheels.

[1200TT]

oh at 1 bar

[veilside02celi]

Originally posted by 1200TT
actually the spyder hasnt been wrecked. It got rear ended, and the bumper was replaced. Its currently sitting in the VeilSide showroom. There were so many plans for the motor, but now a final plan has been finalized. Lets just say, it will and wont be too much of a surprise...but it should at least be putting down 290hp at the wheels.

sweet! i stand corrected...its been soem time since my buddy with one of the other veilside MR2's has talked to anyone over there... anthony i believe (one of RJs engineers?)... share the inside info on the motor deal.... any info is good info : ) i see in alot of your posts you have alot to say about veilside... you have the hookup with them or something? Dont get me wrong, i've seen alot of there stuff lately and I can speak for the quality and the design that goes into there products, (thats why i have chosen there products for my own car) i'm very impressed to say the least...just curious..

[veilside02celi]

Originally posted by 1200TT
oh at 1 bar

thats pretty impressive on 14.5lbs of boost if its a 1ZZ or a 2ZZ... VERY decent gains in HP on whatever motor he plans on goign with

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

I want this so bad i cry every night.......jk............this is what i gonna save my money for.....!

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

did they really get 220 hp out of this......how much would that be to the wheels?

[t2000gts]

i still don't think this is worth it for that kinda cash. either engine, 1ZZ, 2ZZ or '3ZZ' will have their limits for streetable power at around somewhere from 350-450. and you can hit that on all of them with a ton of work.

so instead of having a HARD ton of work, just get new lower comp pistons for the 2ZZ and pump up the boost. there is no replacement for displacement, but forced induction comes close. especially when you're talking under .2 liters.