For the MR-S owners...

[Crizzz]

i've seen some nasty spyders with the 2zz swap and have seen the nasty turbos that are out for the stock MR-S 1zz (i.e. Top Secret and Power Enterprise)...which one would be better, drop in the 2zz or drop in a turbo?

[CeliCar]

I'd just stick with the 1ZZ+Turbo, MWR (http://monkeywrenchracing.com/toyota.html) has so many parts available now you can build it up really strong.

[larryd]

All depends what you would want, turbo or all motor. Both would be really fun.

[dmc12mk3]

Depends on what you're looking for in the way of reliability.

The 2zz has a lot of extras in it that should have been included on the 1zz. Many of these extras are found in the Miata's 1.8 (based off of an 80's 323 turbo engine) and Miata's rarely suffer unexpected engine failures and several hundred thousand of them have been produced.

The 1zz is not a very tough motor and just about all of the Spyder guys that have run boost, have also gone through one or more engines. Heck theres a lot of us that aren't running boost that are going through one or more engines.

That was the primary reason for me going 2zz instead of a built up 1zz. That and the 2zz swap doesn't require any tuning. Toyota has already done that.

[oneflyasianguy]

like what specifically is in the 2zz that is superior to the 1zz

[fox2000gt-s]

Originally posted by oneflyasianguy
like what specifically is in the 2zz that is superior to the 1zz

Everything. :chuckles:

[SLOWICA]

Originally posted by oneflyasianguy
like what specifically is in the 2zz that is superior to the 1zz

Lift...

[143hawaii]

Like they said, it all depends on what you want. Obviously a 2ZZ NA will only take you so far. But then you have to ask yourself how far do you want to go?

As far as how they both drive in the twisties, I can't comment yet on a 2ZZ'd Spyder but a 1ZZ+turbo is incredible!

[ArchangelX]

Dude...I'll put this in terms you can relate to...do a search for the NA vs Turbo Touge Showdown Battle 2 from Best Motoring...in it, you'll see a 2ZZ MR-S whip the snot outta the turbos. N/A is where it's at...instant power...no lag, and just the right bit of tuning. Add a complete suspension install, and you'll have a car that will hand a ton of cars their azz on a roadcourse.

That is, if you can drive halfway decently.

[xspwolf]

mean people like 143hawaii make me spend all my money...looooseeers, gooo awaaaay, i doooont seee youuur siiig!!!



:gap:

p.s. I am going for 1zz+ turbo, you should be ok with the engine, as long as you dont boost it too much, and as long as you have a bit newer revision of 1zz :), it is just cheaper and makes more sense

[FriedRice]

just wondering if theres a reason why the F1 cars are N/A as opposed to F/I? or is there just a rule against it?

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

2ZZ powerband dosent seem good for the Twisy or AutoX.

[CeliCar]

Originally posted by dmc12mk3
Heck theres a lot of us that aren't running boost that are going through one or more engines.


Isn't that mostly because of the oil blowby - precats issue with some of the early cars?

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by CeliCar
Isn't that mostly because of the oil blowby - precats issue with some of the early cars?

Yes

[SLOWICA]

Originally posted by FriedRice
just wondering if theres a reason why the F1 cars are N/A as opposed to F/I? or is there just a rule against it?

that is why Honda was forced to create VTEC...

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
2ZZ powerband dosent seem good for the Twisy or AutoX.

you obviously haven't seen any Best Motoring videos... a 2zz MR-S just whoops azz all day long... it even withstood the likes of Nissan Silvias with almost twice the horsepower and it was even through the twisties...

[kxtim5]

whats so nasty about that

[fox2000gt-s]

Originally posted by SLOWICA
you obviously haven't seen any Best Motoring videos... a 2zz MR-S just whoops azz all day long... it even withstood the likes of Nissan Silvias with almost twice the horsepower and it was even through the twisties...

I've seen the video in question. It looked like the MRS was just toying with the other cars by the end of the course. N/A is definetly the way to go on that car.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Yeah I have seen those videos. But I know for a fact that a Turbo 1ZZ would have more fun because it wouldnt have to fight to stay in lift. Amuse and Spirit all have 2ZZ MRS's and there words were you need to be a good driver to get all you can from the 2ZZ MRS

[CeliCar]

Was that 2zz car in best motoring using the 5spd? MR-S should have been made with 6 gears like in the SMT. 4000rpm at highway speeds is alot of revs.

[larryd]

I think Id prefer a 2zz in a MRS with a PFC and stronger valve springs. That way you could rev the car to 9000 and enjoy that all motor mid engine rwd convertable ;)

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

The PE Turbo's spool at 2300rpm. Imagine boosting from 2800rpm to Redline

[Crizzz]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
The PE Turbo's spool at 2300rpm. Imagine boosting from 2800rpm to Redline
that does sound promising...

[coledesign]

god the 2zz powered mrs is so ****in sick

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

When I think about it because I have thought about it, dropping 3g's + custom work for 180hp, or dropping 4g's for an Apexi kit + PFC and getting over 200 to the wheels with a safe tune, just sounds better to me.

[143hawaii]

I'm still not totally convinced that an NA powered car will out corner a turbo. Yes there's obviously better response but if you size the turbo right you can have a pretty flexible power band. I mean on a track who's letting revs drop down so low that it wouldn't be spooled. As long as you aren't adding a ton of weight on top of the car by going with a turbo, I still think it'd be a fair game with similar drivers.

I weighed each piece out of my TS kit and the stock parts and I only gained 6lbs from it. Now that I'm catless and I got rid of my huge stock exhaust, I'm actually about 30lbs lighter.

Originally posted by xspwolf
mean people like 143hawaii make me spend all my money...looooseeers, gooo awaaaay, i doooont seee youuur siiig!!!

:gap: I've spent way to much money, yet by the looks of it from the outside it looks like I've spent nothing. ;)

[ArchangelX]

If you're a member: http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=477&p=3

http://www.fullboost.com.au/articles/reviews/best_motoring_06.html

Otherwise do a search for it on WinMX or your favorite search program: MRS_S2000vsS14_S15.mpeg

[Bobbeh]

I'd chose the Turbo over the NA version as you'd get more torque.

[F35-JSF]

:stupid:

[xspwolf]

Originally posted by 143hawaii
I'm still not totally convinced that an NA powered car will out corner a turbo. Yes there's obviously better response but if you size the turbo right you can have a pretty flexible power band. I mean on a track who's letting revs drop down so low that it wouldn't be spooled. As long as you aren't adding a ton of weight on top of the car by going with a turbo, I still think it'd be a fair game with similar drivers.


Consider that 1zz is pretty similar to 2zz under 6k rpm (if not better), it seems that getting more power around 2k rpms can only help? I really do not see how can turbo 1zz not be faster than 2zz...

Best motoring video just proved what a great combo 2zz and MRS are, which again does not mean that even 2zz + turbo would not be even better, it is not as if with turbo you suddenly lose the power under 2k rpms that you had before :)

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Also, remember that there might be a such thing as too much power with the Spyder.

[dmc12mk3]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
When I think about it because I have thought about it, dropping 3g's + custom work for 180hp, or dropping 4g's for an Apexi kit + PFC and getting over 200 to the wheels with a safe tune, just sounds better to me.

I spent roughly 2200 - 2300 dollars all told on my swap. Some very talented friends of mine and I did it on a whim while I was 1100 miles from home on vacation. I'm not certain what you mean by custom work exactly. Anybody who can turn a wrench the right way could do the 2zz swap (would take longer than 4 days probably). No tuning required if you use the 2zz ecm.

How much does a 'safe tune' cost for a turbo car if you do not own your own dyno? You're easily over 5 grand with just a turbo / pfc setup and you still have a 1zz engine. (no oil spray for the backs of the pistons, no sprinkler system built in to the top of your valve cover, no ability to downshift to 5th, etc...)

If I understood more about turbo's I might consider using one. As it is, I've just recently gotten away from large pushrod engines and there are very few people in the world that I would trust to work on my car.

[dmc12mk3]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Also, remember that there might be a such thing as too much power with the Spyder.

NEVER!!

just not enough braking or turning ability sometimes (grin)

[CIN]

Some like N/A some like F/I. I am with the N/A guys.

BTW a turbo MR-S and an N/A MR-S with the same hp should have very similar lap times. Advantage depending on the track. Lots of corners the N/A will post better lap times while where there are more straights the turbo will win thanks to its torque. Should be very close still.

If you have the right size turbo and you keep it up in the rev range it should be really good in the corners too. If you intend to do some 400hp monster obviously you will suffer in the corners.

[WillyK]

Why do people in the US call the MR2 an MRS? Last time I looked on Toyota's site and the brochure...it's called an MR2.

I guess it's everyone trying to be JDM.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by WillyK
Why do people in the US call the MR2 an MRS? Last time I looked on Toyota's site and the brochure...it's called an MR2.

I guess it's everyone trying to be JDM. Faster than typing out MR2 Spyder. :chuckles:

[WillyK]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Faster than typing out MR2 Spyder. :chuckles:

Doubtful

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Basically because saying MR2 Spyder all the time gets tiring and saying MR2 usually gets people thinking about the SW20.

CIN: I was thinking more of a 230whp setup. Nice mid sized turbo with a good powerband. 400whp on a Spyder I think would result in the front end lifting off the ground everytime you hit the gas :chuckles: Also, your car is amazing!

[Crizzz]

Originally posted by WillyK
Why do people in the US call the MR2 an MRS? Last time I looked on Toyota's site and the brochure...it's called an MR2.

I guess it's everyone trying to be JDM.
thats how i distinguish the MR2 and MR2 spyder...the american habit of making everything more simple...

[CIN]

Originally posted by WillyK
Why do people in the US call the MR2 an MRS? Last time I looked on Toyota's site and the brochure...it's called an MR2.

I guess it's everyone trying to be JDM.

Because I am not from the US and because I do have a Jspec car and in Japan it is called an MR-S ;)

[CIN]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Basically because saying MR2 Spyder all the time gets tiring and saying MR2 usually gets people thinking about the SW20.

CIN: I was thinking more of a 230whp setup. Nice mid sized turbo with a good powerband. 400whp on a Spyder I think would result in the front end lifting off the ground everytime you hit the gas :chuckles: Also, your car is amazing!

Yes 230hp shoud be awesome and not have lots of lag. There is no need for huge power in a light car :)

And thanks for the compliments :)

[WillyK]

Originally posted by CIN
Because I am not from the US and because I do have a Jspec car and in Japan it is called an MR-S ;)

You are the exception. BTW, where is Malta anyways?

[MISTER 2]

Originally posted by Crizzz
thats how i distinguish the MR2 and MR2 spyder...the american habit of making everything more simple...

Why not just use the designation:
MK1 MR2
MK2 MR2
MK3 MR2

:rolleyes:

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by WillyK
I guess it's everyone trying to be JDM.

Unlikely. I hate it when I ask people why they've spent hundreds of dollars more on something and they answer, "Cause it's JDM!" :thumbdown:

We also have a lot of international MR2 Spyder owners on our board. And yes it gets annoying to always say MR2 Spyder let alone type it out how many times.

I'd agree with CIN, 400rwhp is absurd in this car and would kill the fun! 200-ish rwhp seems like the perfect amount.

[Crizzz]

Originally posted by MISTER 2
Why not just use the designation:
MK1 MR2
MK2 MR2
MK3 MR2

:rolleyes:
why not use MR2 spyder or MRS...i mean, its not really a big deal...which ever one you want...:cool:

[MISTER 2]

Originally posted by Crizzz
why not use MR2 spyder or MRS...i mean, its not really a big deal...which ever one you want...:cool:

Well, there were Spyder conversions available for the MKII MR2, so simply stating Spyder does not narrow it down enough.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMjQxMTY1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

[Crizzz]

Originally posted by MISTER 2
Well, there were Spyder conversions available for the MKII MR2, so simply stating Spyder does not narrow it down enough.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMjQxMTY1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

sweet picture...but the point im getting it at is that its not really a big deal...

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by MISTER 2
Well, there were Spyder conversions available for the MKII MR2, so simply stating Spyder does not narrow it down enough.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMjQxMTY1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

If you want to be technical the MkII convertible was spelled Spider and not Spyder. :)

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

There was a MKI, MKII, and MKIII Convertable MR2.

I would call mine a ZZW then people wouldnt know what I was talking about.

Originally posted by 143hawaiiI'd agree with CIN, 400rwhp is absurd in this car and would kill the fun! 200-ish rwhp seems like the perfect amount. [/B]

I too stated that above. I think it takes someone who knows how to actually drive the car to understand that its not power in this car but balance, which makes it fast. Damnit 143 we are getting along, the Spyder is wearing off on me :gap:

[CIN]

Originally posted by WillyK
You are the exception. BTW, where is Malta anyways?

Middle of the mediterrinian. Just under scicily ;)
Very small island but you would be surprized at the cars you see here.

You can find from Ferraris to all the JDM cars you can immagine.
PS. We use RHD vehicles so that helps ;)

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
I too stated that above. I think it takes someone who knows how to actually drive the car to understand that its not power in this car but balance, which makes it fast. Damnit 143 we are getting along, the Spyder is wearing off on me :gap:

It's great, isn't it? :applaud: :)

[Crizzz]

page two...owned...sweet...

[ArchangelX]

Hey bobbeh, It's Elsie.. Just wanted to let you know that Mike is back in the hospital.. His leg swelled up again, so I took him to the doctor yesterday and they admitted him...

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
Hey bobbeh, It's Elsie.. Just wanted to let you know that Mike is back in the hospital.. His leg swelled up again, so I took him to the doctor yesterday and they admitted him...

:(

[ChinboGTS]

hehe i don't know which one is better (N/A or turbo)... but i've always told myself if i ever get totalled from the rear end... i'm taking my 2zz and buying an mr-s...

*knocks on wood* about the totalling thing... it's just a thought not that i want it to happen!!

[CeliCar]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
Hey bobbeh, It's Elsie.. Just wanted to let you know that Mike is back in the hospital.. His leg swelled up again, so I took him to the doctor yesterday and they admitted him...

Hope he gets well again soon!

[celi7g]

Originally posted by FriedRice
just wondering if theres a reason why the F1 cars are N/A as opposed to F/I? or is there just a rule against it?

The FIA banned turbos in the late 80's to put a cap on hp. Cost and safety probably had something to do with it as well. After that the rules called for N/A V8, V10, V12 engines with maximum 3.5L displacement. At its peak, the Honda 1.5L V6 turbo was reportedly pushing out 1200+ in race trim and 1600 in qualifying. Nowadays they're pushing 900+ hp with 3L V10's, so not a bad recovery... why Honda never produced a roadcar with a factory turbo is beyond me, esp after all the experience they must have gained with turbocharging techniques. All this back in the day when boosting was still relatively crude.

[ArchangelX]

Er..sorry for the post above...my wife didn't know any better, hehe..she thought I was already in a discussion with Bobbeh. :gap:

I'm okay...it's just that blister got worse, and they were worried I'd get a bone infection, so they put me in a cast to keep myself from injuring it again. :gap:

[Bobbeh]

Hi elsie, thanks for the message, and shut it Mike, shes only trying to help :chuckles:

Grr about your leg fella. Its a real PITA by the sounds of it right now.

[ArchangelX]

Ya..it is...I'm really getting tired of it. Elsie did good...I was just surprised that she posted it here. :gap:

The cast sucks...it's so freaking heavy, and just for a blister? :wtf: I guess I just can't get scratches, cuts, and roll with it the way I used to. It's just too dangerous now. :(

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
Ya..it is...I'm really getting tired of it. Elsie did good...I was just surprised that she posted it here. :gap:

The cast sucks...it's so freaking heavy, and just for a blister? :wtf: I guess I just can't get scratches, cuts, and roll with it the way I used to. It's just too dangerous now. :(

You could always Carbon Fiber it Mike ;)

Good to see you are ok though. I think we pretty much all expect you will kick any problem in the ass after what you've been through.

[ArchangelX]

LOL...CF that'd be cool..heh. :gap:

Well..after everything that's happened, this shiat just seems routine...still it sucks azz and I hate what that doctor did to me. It'll never be the same again.

[Tikked Again]

Turbo-charge your cast...it is better than the normal aspiration ;)

[ArchangelX]

Hah...anything to accelerate the healing...it's cool for me. One good thing is sense my whole leg is neuropathic, I can't feel any of the itching or anything. To be honest, the only thing I feel is the weight. It's heavy..

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Have they given you any realistic options Mike?

[ArchangelX]

Other than an amputation, no...not really. I have to do with what I have left. They were confident that my leg will still allow me to function okay after a year or so. If I don't have increased sensitivity, and I have continuing troubles with it, constantly, then they said I should be prepared to amputate.

It's really scary...I've always been a really strong guy...my legs were always the strongest part of my body, and now I can barely walk without using a cane. I'm very slow now...very slow. Like an old man.

It's weird, too, because I'm still strong everywhere else, I was hoping I could compensate for it some how, but I can't, because your legs are so CRUCIAL to your mobility. I move WAY faster with crutches than I will ever move with my own too legs. I can hop faster than I can walk.

I wish time could pass more quickly...waiting for the sensitivity to return is like slow torture. I don't think it's going to come back, but I do try to think positive. I dunno...it's just not going my way right now.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

I was going to play hockey in College. A lot of the OT guys know my story. I got a pretty bad concussion, almost died from it and ruined everything I loved. Hockey. Its not as bad as what you are going through but the moral of the story is, the only way I made it through was by the people I loved and loved me. You got a great wife and good friends. We will always be here for you Mike as well as Elsie. Good Luck bro.

[Crizzz]

This thread should be renamed..."How is ArchangelX doing?"...:chuckles:

[ArchangelX]

Possibly, yes...

Thanks Dark, I'm still trying. :)