According to John Hotchkis and his tech.

[GT-S Celica]

I went to the celica day at hotchkis tunning. it was fun. i saw some great looking celis...

anyways, i have never landed on the 2nd cam on the 1-2 shift. While i was at the meet, i asked many gts six speed owners if they could land on the 2nd cam. nobody was able to. So i decided to ask john hotchkis. This guy knows wat he is talking about. I found out that john drives the celica on a daily basis and he also takes it to the track. This guy knows how to drive a celica. So wen i asked him the same question, his answer was the same. He was not able to land on the 2nd cam on the 1-2 shift. Not because he sucks at shifting, but because it is not possible unless you do something special, like feather the clutch. John hotchkis and his tech. told me that the only way to land on the 2nd can during a 1-2 shift, you would have to change the gearing or something.

So i want to ask those people who has claimed that they can land on the 2nd cam without doing anything special, how the heck do you do it? Can you record yourself doing this on a video camera? Cause I really really want to see wat the heck you guys do to land on the 2nd cam. I dont want to do anything like feathering the clutch or having the gas down while shifting.

Is John Hotchkis a wacko? Or Are all of you a damn liar?

[GTS LAID]

ummmm... i can land the 2nd cam... are you calling me a liar gaylord fokker!

[GT-S Celica]

**** you! Dumb ass!
I was simply asking a question. All you had to do was say yes or no. Is that too hard? Dumb ass.

[GT-S Celica]

Can somebody plz get it on a video or something? I remember seeing a prelude doing this. The recorded himself doing this.

[Redline]

And that means taking your damn foot off the gas pedal, pressing in the clutch, shifting into 2nd gear, and then releasing the clutch while pressing the gas pedal again.

I too can't stay in the 2nd cams unless I feather the gas while or right before shifting.

[Celica RZ]

is john a liar? no

are we all lying? no

This answer is right there, just figure it out. nobody's going to go record themselves shift, since it is dangerous, just cause you can't think a bit, and especially after you calling us all liars.

[GT-S Celica]

I'm not asking you to hold the camera yourself white shifing. Get somebody to do it for you. Maybe a passanger? Do I have to make every specification to what i say? Can't you just use your commond sense to figure it out?

Also, i didn't call you guys a liar. I asked if you were a liar.

[Redline]

Im sure no one is lying about their 1-2 shift, but maybe you are feathering the gas without even realizing it. Try to let off the gas completely while shifting and see if you can do it. If you already do that then, damn... i shift too slow......... :D

[GT-S Celica]

i was really looking foward to seeing somebody do this at the meet. I wanted to know how fast you have to shift in order to land on 2nd cam. Too bad nobody at the meet was able to do this. I don't know if i asked everybody at the meet because some people came really late.

Just understand this, I didn't call anybody a liar or a wacko. I was asking, not stating.

[GT-S Celica]

Hey redline, did your shifting improve after you got your ss? wat rpm did you land on when you didn't have your ss? (on the 1-2 shift)

[Kit99bar]

I just went out practicing the other day and I was landing it at 6500 rpms.
and yes I do slip the clutch on the shift.

anyhow, Micronrice has a video showing him landing about 6K
he posted it before

[nyoneway]

I drove the Celi for 8 months not being able to land on 2nd Cam even once. I always thought it was impossible until I got this advice from someone.

1. Redline First.
2. Fully depress clutch.
3. Hit Second Gear.
4. Slam/Floor the gas. Then in a split second.
5. Let go of the clutch AsFastAP

Suddenly I did it everytime after. Try it, it works.

It works because your clutch and tires spins a little trying to keep up with your engine.

[GT-S Celica]

cool, can you get it for me? If not, how can i find it on the search?

[Redline]

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
Hey redline, did your shifting improve after you got your ss? wat rpm did you land on when you didn't have your ss? (on the 1-2 shift)

Im not sure. the shifter was the first mod I had done so I cant remember well.

[GT-S Celica]

nyoneway, thnx for the info, but this is not a normal way to shift. I could probably land on the 2nd cam too if i did this. but i dont want to. i want to be able to do it without doing anything special.

[Redline]

Originally posted by nyoneway
I drove the Celi for 8 months not being able to land on 2nd Cam even once. I always thought it was impossible until I got this advice from someone.

1. Redline First.
2. Fully depress clutch.
3. Hit Second Gear.
4. Slam/Floor the gas. Then in a split second.
5. Let go of the clutch AsFastAP

Suddenly I did it everytime after. Try it, it works.

It works because your clutch and tires spins a little trying to keep up with your engine.

If that's what everyone else is doing to land in the powerband, then hell, so can I. I can land anywhere in the powerband I want with that method. Im talking about shifting how you normally would, but fast. Which means adding gas as you release the clutch and not revving it back up before you release the clutch.

[ishido]

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
nyoneway, thnx for the info, but this is not a normal way to shift. I could probably land on the 2nd cam too if i did this. but i dont want to. i want to be able to do it without doing anything special.

You mathematically cannot land in 6K on 1-2 unless you feather the clutch. You don't have to powershift per say, but you do have to slip the clutch. You have to nail the gas before you let off the clutch. It's a split second and the revs don't necessarily shoot up before you let off the clutch. I ran into problems trying to shift properly and land in 6K. It was very very unsmooth because I would fall out of lift. Even when feathering the clutch I usually land just below the 6K mark. It takes about half a second to get back into lift. The 1-2 shift is much much smoother however.

[GTS LAID]

First time i was able to hit it was a month and a half ago... right after new years. you have to let it go to 8400 to land it. and no i dont powershift or feather the clutch... just let go really fast and floor it.

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
**** you! Dumb ass!
I was simply asking a question. All you had to do was say yes or no. Is that too hard? Dumb ass.

Hey tightass i was quoting a movie (meet the parents)

[djm221]

I guess this is what they mean when they say "crappy drivers".
You have to do "something special" to make it happen since Toyota chose the wrong gear ratios.

But having all those people there that could never do it... that's kind of laughable IMO.

[gts24]

Originally posted by GTS LAID


Hey tightass i was quoting a movie (meet the parents)

no kidding , I picked up right away that you were joking. I always quote movies. People at work know I'm never serious .. .I always fill in the gaps in life with quotes from movies. Especially adam sandler flicks... oh well

[gts24]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
First time i was able to hit it was a month and a half ago... right after new years. you have to let it go to 8400 to land it. and no i dont powershift or feather the clutch... just let go really fast and floor it.

I think that's the main problem, People forget that fuel cutoff is at 8400 and overseas CElica's get a higher redline than we do. just use the system that is in place. go to fuel cutoff and you can land the 1-2 alot easier.

[kuruptgt]

:whogives:

[racinjason]

You just have to work on catching second to get it. I can land in the second cam as high as 7200 with minimul wheel spin. Just don't force it in gear or force it or you will hurt the sycros. This is why so many people have syncro problems is because they have to catch second to keep it in the powerband. Some tranny lube definately helps smooth things out.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

The only way to land is to feather in some way. It is completely impossible the way they have the gears set up to land a 1-2 shift in lift by simply shifting and no slip. You absolutely must get on the gas early to land this. To see this, just go to 38 mph in 2nd gear. Check to see what the tach reads. It definitely isn't gonna read 6, and it will read that same engine speed all the time for the 38 mph in second gear. John Hotchkis can do it, he just prefers not to, and for good reason. Imagine the consequences of driving a celica like that on the circuit and every time he shifts from 1-2, he slips the clutch to land in lift. I doubt the car would last very long on the track with how he drives it. The only way to make your car do this without doing anything special is by changing the gear ratios. If you change the individual gear ratios and make them so that the car lands at 6000 after every shift, then it will work. If you want to keep the same top speed however, then you will have to do a combination of lowering the final drive ratio and increasing the individual gear ratios. Why toyota and other car manufacturers for that matter didn't do this, I am not sure. Probably gas mileage and engine life. Makes it tough though when your powerband is only 2300 rpms (or 1800 in the case of the 2002's) and your gear ratios dont keep you there.

[Redline]

Originally posted by NSX_GTR_LM
The only way to land is to feather in some way. It is completely impossible the way they have the gears set up to land a 1-2 shift in lift by simply shifting and no slip. You absolutely must get on the gas early to land this. To see this, just go to 38 mph in 2nd gear. Check to see what the tach reads. It definitely isn't gonna read 6, and it will read that same engine speed all the time for the 38 mph in second gear. John Hotchkis can do it, he just prefers not to, and for good reason. Imagine the consequences of driving a celica like that on the circuit and every time he shifts from 1-2, he slips the clutch to land in lift. I doubt the car would last very long on the track with how he drives it. The only way to make your car do this without doing anything special is by changing the gear ratios. If you change the individual gear ratios and make them so that the car lands at 6000 after every shift, then it will work. If you want to keep the same top speed however, then you will have to do a combination of lowering the final drive ratio and increasing the individual gear ratios. Why toyota and other car manufacturers for that matter didn't do this, I am not sure. Probably gas mileage and engine life. Makes it tough though when your powerband is only 2300 rpms (or 1800 in the case of the 2002's) and your gear ratios dont keep you there.

not according to djm221. He says we are just crappy drivers.

And to be honest, I have landed in lift without pre-revving about 2 times. But its more luck than anything. Its not like we have a digital RPM gauge. Its too hard to consistantly shift right at fuel cut.

Ive been driving stick legally for 9 years now(my dad actually taught me how to drive stick when I was 13). Don't me making assumptions that people are bad drivers just because they cant consistently stay in the powerband by shifting the way you are supposed to shift. And I hope you(djm221) have never miss-shifted your car yet because if you did then you have no right to say anyone is a crappy driver. :)

[NSX_GTR_LM]

I know its not a digital rpm guage, but if you shift properly, you will not land in lift unless you carry some crazy momentum and are going downhill :) If you shift from one to 2 and you are going 40 mph, the engine will carry the same speed as if you were cruising from 0-40 in second. Unless you can somehow hold incredible momentum (and with the GTS gearing, it must be INCREDIBLE), you wont stay in the 1-2 shift without slipping the clutch.

[GT-S Celica]

So is GTSlaid the only one that can land on the 2nd can with out feathering the clutch or having the gas down?

Also, if i'm not wrong, the best 1/4 mile time for our car from a magazine is 15.2 right? (dont flame me for using magazine time) So in order for me to get that time, do i need to land on the 2nd cam during the 1-2 shift? or is the 15.2 the time that you would get if you dont land on the lift?
does the magazine people feather the clutch or do anything special to get the best time? or do they simply shift fast?

[GT-S Celica]

GTSlaid, if you have the time, can you record yourself landing on the 2nd cam? i would really love to see it.

[GTS LAID]

no i figured it out mathematically... theres no way i didnt pre-gas before letting go of the clutch... even though i didnt know it I must've beem doing it.

heres why... the gearing in 1st is 3.166 and in second is 2.05

this means that at any rpm second will have 64.75% of the RPMs in first. which means that a perfect (0 second) shift will put an 8500PRM tach in first down to 5500 in second, about 400 shy of lift in my car.

at 8500 in first the car travels at 39.94 mph (using the gear ratio, drive ratio, wheel and tire diameter and RPM of engine).

in order to land 5900 I would have to be travelling at 43.3 mph

so in reality i would have to increase my speed by 3-4 mph in order to land at 5900.

So only options for landing second cam in 00 GTS is to either increase your rev speed by 400 rpm (by gasing a split second before letting go of clutch) or if you were rolling downhill and were able to increase your wheelspeed by 4mph so that when you do engage your clutch your engine will be at 5900

[larryd]

i know i would land around 5700 or so if I was just shiftin quick... If i was shifting like a race scene I would land above 6000.. usually around 6200.. really depends on how you let the clutch out and how fast you can shift.. took me ALOT of time doing it before i could get it all the time, this was ofcourse before my synchros gave out on me..

[bickley]

So does anyone know where we can get different gears for our car? I'd pay for a new gear set even if we lose alittle top end power. Does anyone know where I can get this done if it has to be custom?

[GT-S Celica]

Also, if i'm not wrong, the best 1/4 mile time for our car from a magazine is 15.2 right? (dont flame me for using magazine time) So in order for me to get that time, do i need to land on the 2nd cam during the 1-2 shift? or is the 15.2 the time that you would get if you dont land on the lift?
does the magazine people feather the clutch or do anything special to get the best time? or do they simply shift fast?


Somebody straighten this out for me.

[Redline]

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
Also, if i'm not wrong, the best 1/4 mile time for our car from a magazine is 15.2 right? (dont flame me for using magazine time) So in order for me to get that time, do i need to land on the 2nd cam during the 1-2 shift? or is the 15.2 the time that you would get if you dont land on the lift?
does the magazine people feather the clutch or do anything special to get the best time? or do they simply shift fast?


Somebody straighten this out for me.



SCC ran 14.9 stock if that means anything

[GT-S Celica]

really? which issue was it?

[Redline]

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
really?

really. :D

[larryd]

yes really :).. not sure which issue it was but they did it.. and no you wouldnt have to land the 1-2 shift to run a 15.2.. you have to land it to run 14s though :)

[djm221]

Originally posted by Redline


not according to djm221. He says we are just crappy drivers.

And to be honest, I have landed in lift without pre-revving about 2 times. But its more luck than anything. Its not like we have a digital RPM gauge. Its too hard to consistantly shift right at fuel cut.

Ive been driving stick legally for 9 years now(my dad actually taught me how to drive stick when I was 13). Don't me making assumptions that people are bad drivers just because they cant consistently stay in the powerband by shifting the way you are supposed to shift. And I hope you(djm221) have never miss-shifted your car yet because if you did then you have no right to say anyone is a crappy driver. :)

You must have misunderstood something I said. This guy said neither he or any of those other GT-S drivers have "ever" landed the shift. That is pitiful - that constitues poor driver skills. Whether you choose to "abuse" your car or not, that is a different question.

I also said that you HAVE to do "something special" to make it happen since Toyota chose the wrong gear ratios. I don't know where I went wrong, but that was implying that it is not possible simply because of the gear ratios, and that you have to give it something special, ie, gas.

The other 4billion times this topic was brought up, people always said just shift really fast. I always maintained that it was a powershift no matter how you want to look at it. You have to power your way through 600RPM of poor gear ratios. BTW, One probable reason Toyota did this was for the 0-60 time ending in 2nd.

And no, I have never miss-shifted. I still don't see how it is possible. Whenever I try it, I think it takes effort to get into the 2nd gate, and the shift just not go in smoothly. But, I guess, in the heat of the moment, things could happen. I almost never floor it above 80mph, so my shift from 3rd is usually to 6th.

[Redline]

http://www.taeunproductions.com/extra/scc_14_9.jpg

There you go! Magazine Racing at its finest. :)

[cam_n_scott]

I have no idea how to do it, but shouldnt it be fairly simple to calculate the RPM at which 2nd gear would land on if you shifted exactly at redline and went infinitely quick? by using the gear ratios you should be able to do it...

[Redline]

Originally posted by djm221




I also said that you HAVE to do "something special" to make it happen since Toyota chose the wrong gear ratios. I don't know where I went wrong, but that was implying that it is not possible simply because of the gear ratios, and that you have to give it something special, ie, gas.


I guess i misunderstood or somethin. hehe

[NSX_GTR_LM]

bickley, what would you want a new gear set for if you are going to lose top end power? Not that you would anyways. People that say toyota messed up the gear ratios for the 0-60 seems hard for me to believe. If they decreased the final drive ratio, and increased the individual gear ratios, you would have a celica that redlined at the same speeds but remained in the powerband on all shifts.

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by cam_n_scott
I have no idea how to do it, but shouldnt it be fairly simple to calculate the RPM at which 2nd gear would land on if you shifted exactly at redline and went infinitely quick? by using the gear ratios you should be able to do it...

you're joking right.... look a couple of posts up...

[bickley]

NSX - that's exactly what I want....a Celica that could stay in the power band at all shifts without feathering or power shifting.

[GTS LAID]

its actually not that difficult... the drive ratio needed between any of the gears to land an 8500-5800 shift is 68.2% or higher... the worst ratio is between 1st and 2nd gears and thats 3.166 to 2.050 which is 64.75% ... all you'd really need is make second a little taller... anything more than 2.16 and you'd be techincally able to land it in an 00GTS if shifting at cutoff.

In an 02 with a fuel cutoff at 7600 and engagement at 6000 you should realistically have someting like 2.5 second gear ratio.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Remember though GTS Laid, by increasing the second drive ratio, you need to increase all the ratios after that. By increasing the 2nd gear ratio, you lower the top speed of 2nd gear, and therefore third gear starts below lift. You would have to switch probably all of them, which would make your topspeeds alot less. Therefore you would have to lower the final drive too. This is so damn expensive though, I wish they would offer a model like this from the factory.

[bickley]

NSX_GTR_LM, do you where you could get this done at? And how much are we talking about here?

[NSX_GTR_LM]

I am not really sure how much it would be or where you could get it done, because I think it is so expensive that people just dont bother. If I had to guess, I would think that kind of tranny work would be a couple grand. The cool thing about messin with your gear ratios is that if you decided to do this, you could make your car a true 6spd instead of a 5spd plus granny gear. goodbye gasmileage though, if you care about that. Dont take that price as a quote though, cause I really have nothing to base that on, just my own thoughts. You might want to ask around, or get in touch with someone like John Hotchkis to ask about where this can e done. Someone on this board might know where too, so you could post in the mods section. Good luck if you do though. If you combined that with a light flywheel, you would have one badass NA celica GTS for the track.

[cam_n_scott]

hahaha gts laid... I must have gotten frustrated having people go back and forth yes / no you cant. Sorry about that!

All hail math :bowdown:

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Math is about the only fargin thing I am happy with in school right now, so I agree. All hail math right now damnit :)

[J.C.]

Just to clarify this little issue.. I talked to John about this and he said with sticky tires and a limited slip differential you can not....
You can however if you're spinning the tires at a really high R.P.M.
and go from first to second so fast that you probably would'nt have even moved but 10 to 20 ft...!!!! Why some one would need to do this is beyond me..... 1st) not good for the motor... 2nd) no gains in drag or road racing.... 3rd) why????? 4th) go to 1,2 and 3.

[J.C.]

Here is more information on the 1-2 shift topic from JOHN HOTCHKIS himself after we talked some more..... With our Celica the VVTI
(second
cam) comes in at 6100RPM. Shifting from first at 8000RPM, just before
limiter,
brings the RPM to 5900 in second (tach reads 6000RPM, but falls down 100 RPM
due to tach flutter and clutch engagement) so the engine is not on the second
cam.
Our car has a limited slip differential and very sticky Yokohamas, so tire
slippage in
second is not an option. If we had an open diff. and harder compound tires
we
might be able to get some tire slip in second and keep the second cam
engaged.
The best solution would be shorter gears with less RPM spacing between gears.
A
2000 RPM drop between first and second is too much for ultimate acceleration.

The complete gear stack between 2,3,4,5 and 6 could be shortened for drag
strip or
track use. Some people were asking if the final drive could be changed to
solve the
problem. This would not help because the RPM difference between gears would
remain the same, the car would reach ultimate RPM quicker while overall top
speed
would be slower. We are investigating different options such as having the
second
cam engage sooner or supercharging a lower compression 2ZZ engine. We will
keep you updated.

John Hotchkis...

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Everything he said is right on, but if you wanted to keep the same top gear speeds while increasing each individual gear ratio, you would have to also lower the final drive somewhat. For the track, you are probably better off just increasing the individuals, but for the street, It would probably be better for gas mileage and engine life if you were to do a combination of increasing the individuals and decreasing the final drive. The final drive has no bearing on what RPM your engine is running at in terms of the shift points, it would be just as though you increased or decreased the diameter of your tires.

[Pribilof]

I was under the impression that our cars ALREADY have an open differential. Hence all the people getting aftermarket LSD's. Btw I can land at 62-6300 RPM from 1-2 shift so I dont know about this land at 6k rpm stuff. Just take the car to over 8k rpm before shifting. It's not that hard. I don't see why we have 2 pages of posts here.

[GT-S Celica]

i want to see somebody do this. maybe on the next meet somebody will do this for me while i am at the pass. side...

[Bryan H]

i always landed above 6k when i had my GTS
and sometimes i landed at 7200 rpms {bottle induced}

[gts24]

Originally posted by J.C.
Here is more information on the 1-2 shift topic from JOHN HOTCHKIS himself after we talked some more..... With our Celica the VVTI
(second
cam) comes in at 6100RPM. Shifting from first at 8000RPM, just before
limiter,
brings the RPM to 5900 in second (tach reads 6000RPM, but falls down 100 RPM
due to tach flutter and clutch engagement) so the engine is not on the second
cam.
Our car has a limited slip differential and very sticky Yokohamas, so tire
slippage in
second is not an option. If we had an open diff. and harder compound tires
we
might be able to get some tire slip in second and keep the second cam
engaged.
The best solution would be shorter gears with less RPM spacing between gears.
A
2000 RPM drop between first and second is too much for ultimate acceleration.

The complete gear stack between 2,3,4,5 and 6 could be shortened for drag
strip or
track use. Some people were asking if the final drive could be changed to
solve the
problem. This would not help because the RPM difference between gears would
remain the same, the car would reach ultimate RPM quicker while overall top
speed
would be slower. We are investigating different options such as having the
second
cam engage sooner or supercharging a lower compression 2ZZ engine. We will
keep you updated.

John Hotchkis...
OK, UM WE DO NOT HAVE AN LSD.

[00 scrub]

i think JC is talking about the Hotchkiss Celica. They may have a LSD on thier car. With all the suspension tuning they have done I would guess that they should have one.

[GTS LAID]

JC is talking about their own celica (VVTL-i by the way) and what he says goes pretty much with what i said in my math... no matter what you do you're gonna dop short by 300-500 RPM, to compensate you need to bring the tire speed up by 3-4 mph... which is why he suggested harder compound tire and no LSD (we do have an open differential in our cars much like most people).

this would slip the tires enough when you do engage 2nd that the tire speed is what you need. So again, yes it is possible. Remember they're shifting at 8000 while in 00GTSs you can go up to 8500 before cutoff. so shifting at 8400 will give it to you (or me)

[BoyRacer]

I think some of you just arent shifting fast enough??? thats all i can think of. when you think of it, not many peeps on the board are hitting 14's in there modded GT-s. the ones that do, can shift fast. hehe. so the ones that dont just arent landing in lift, and arent shifting fast enough. i would think that on the 1-2 shift, if shifted fast enough, you should land at about 6300 rpm's. so thats 2100 rpms that you are loosing if you take it up to 8400. thats sounds about right to me. i dont think its the car i think its the driver. no offence to anyone what so ever. i wish i had a dayum Gt-s.

[gts24]

I guess all I can say at this point, why is BillyBrun having so much success with an LSD?...

[NSX_GTR_LM]

boyracer, the question has nothing to do with landing the car in lift the way everyone else does. But go race like John Hotchkis and try beatin on your clutch like that and see how long it will last. Its already known that you can slip the clutch and land in lift, but for a long race, this isn't gonna do it. It would also be nice if you were coming out of a corner at the bottom end of second and you wouldn't have to worry about two things. Number one, if the ratios were better, you would already be in lift coming out of a turn and wouldn't have to worry about engaging lift and understearing to the outside. Number 2, if the ratios were better, you would always be in the powerband. It would just make a much better car.

[GTS LAID]

look at the critical 60ft times

[NSX_GTR_LM]

and one more thing, everyone judges by the quarter mile. This is not the type of racing we are talkin about here. John Hotchkis races on a circuit. Keep that in mind. Are you talking about Billybrun's success in the 1/4 or the circuit.

[GTS LAID]

i never cared much for the strip... the circuit is more of the celica's cup of tea... if it were a tea drinker

[djm221]

Mine drinks Beer.

[BoyRacer]

Well i understand that. the type of racing that vehicle is desgned for is not 1/4 mile(suspension).i spoke to J.C. a few months ago and he told me the car ran a 15.9 or a 15.7 in the 1/4...............tell no one, lol jk. but.......................i agree with you on the points you brought up though. as for the others who can't land in lift at the track.................. what i previously said.

[ishido]

GT-S Celica, I have a video for you. I can email it to you (300-400K) or if someone out there can host it, I'll send there too.

[Spec GTS]

GT-S Celica i was there at the Hotchkis tech day, but u didn't ask me. if u did git a chance to ask me...i would have given u a ride and how u that i can do it

[Redline]

Originally posted by BoyRacer
Well i understand that. the type of racing that vehicle is desgned for is not 1/4 mile(suspension).i spoke to J.C. a few months ago and he told me the car ran a 15.9 or a 15.7 in the 1/4...............tell no one, lol jk. but.......................i agree with you on the points you brought up though. as for the others who can't land in lift at the track.................. what i previously said.

Well first off, you being a GT owner, don't have much experience in what this discussion is about.

Now. My first time at the track, I ran pretty consistent 2.2-2.3 60ft times. However, none of those times did I land the 2nd cams. Say what you want, but its nearly impossible on my car to land 2nd in high cams without giving some extra gas before engagement. Maybe you can say, no car is created equal.

Also, if the hotchkis celica ran at LACR, then that explains the slow times. I posted this in a thread in the racing stories forum.

"...We had a suprise for them, though. Los Angeles County Raceway is not the place to mend your ego. The high altitude, hot air and low-friction surface conspire to frustrate every aspiring John Force who races here." Sports Compact Car.

And in the same article, the 242whp ITR coudln't get better than a 14.75 sec 1/4 miles pass. Also, the 276whp Sentra couldn't do better than 14.34 sec. Now celicas get better times than that at some of the tracks you guys race at. You think you can beat these 2 cars? I rest my case.

All im sayin is, it sucks when people run a 14's and get props for it and I ran a 15.6 at LACR which probably would have broke into the 14's at your track and people assume its because I cant drive. That's all.

Some of you guys are very ignorant to the fact that there are millions of factors that produce the outcome of a car's performance. Bad driving is just one of many factor's to the equation. You can't blame bad driver on everything. That's just pure ignorance.

[auto[bot]_sti?]

Originally posted by Redline
I ran a 15.6 at LACR .
kinda confused with all the quoting going on, but who ran a 15.6 at lacr in their celica? was it you Redline? if it was, thats pretty good. also what do you have in your car? (just wonderin if all your mods are stated in your sig) peace

[Redline]

Originally posted by auto[bot]_sti?

kinda confused with all the quoting going on, but who ran a 15.6 at lacr in their celica? was it you Redline? if it was, thats pretty good. also what do you have in your car? (just wonderin if all your mods are stated in your sig) peace

Yea I ran a 15.6 my first time at LACR. All i had was the CAI. I want to visit the strip again since I have the trd clutch, but I want to run at a better track.

Someone said the hotchkis celica ran a 15.7 or something and I was just stating that if that time was at LACR, then that would explain it. I have no idea where it ran or if that time is even true.

[Spec GTS]

i hit 15.7 at lacr, but had a crappy 2.4 60ft cuz my dumbass went rite over the burnout box without warmin up my tires so the tires spun madly when i was out of the hole, and i couldn't stay on lift there...lacr suxs ballz! imma try fontana next, heard it's elevation is alot lower than lacr

[auto[bot]_sti?]

nice times you two. my friend autobot_gts ran a 15.8x at lacr in his '02 celica. also i dont know what kind of clutch kevin (ex-unison member) has but he was there when we were up at lacr, from what i know he has a cai, dual exhaust and a clutch, autobot_gts might know more, since he talked to him. anyhow he ran a 15.5x or .4x over there. well good luck again at lacr, redline and good luck at fontana, spec. post times when you can.

[Redline]

Originally posted by Spec GTS
i hit 15.7 at lacr, but had a crappy 2.4 60ft cuz my dumbass went rite over the burnout box without warmin up my tires so the tires spun madly when i was out of the hole, and i couldn't stay on lift there...lacr suxs ballz! imma try fontana next, heard it's elevation is alot lower than lacr

hehe i ran through the burnout box every time, but thats because I didn't even know. :D I ran totally unprepped.

[RedNOSceli]

Im no math wizzard, but if you **** @8k or higher on a 00 or 01 and shift fast, not power shifting or anything special, then youll land lift every time...02 and up i dont see how you could land lift with a 7800 cut off....I wish I had a video, but ive seen everone in AZ land lift all the time like its nothing special as long as its a 00 or 01

[t2000gts]

here's a video of mircon doing it:

http://subzero.mine.nu/celica/CrazyCelica2ndCam2.wmv

and yes, you can spin the stock yokohamas, hell, you can spin even stickier tires if you have an open differential and enough power. i've seen plenty of people do it here in NY where it's at sea level and usually colder.

i test drove a GTS 6-speed a few times last year, and one time without the salesman, and i got it to land in lift without a problem. i didn't even floor the gas too much before i let out the clutch. or at least didn't mean to. i think i got maybe 25-50% of the way down by the time i was completely off the clutch in 2nd and i landed at 6000rpm spinning. i shifted almost right on the rev limiter which was 8300 ('01 model). that was about the only good thing i did, i stalled it like 2 or 3 times and sometimes gave it too much or not enough gas while letting off the clutch and was just generally driving like a newbie so when i landed the shift my friend was like 'wow' :)

and doesn't VVTL-i disengage at 5800rpm? it comes on at 6200, but when the rpms fall, it doesn't come out until 5800 or something. i remember a huge thread about that a few months or maybe a year ago and a bunch of GTS drivers saying they found that to be true.

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ALSO, a little slip during shifts is not horrible. hell, automatics do it all the time, for every shift to make it slow and smooth, and with proper care, a automatic driven in bad traffic and whatnot can last 100k+ miles. even longer with just a rebuild of some clutches/bands and stuff.

auto GTS 1st gear @ 7800rpm = 45mph
auto GTS 2nd gear @ 4300rpm = 45mph
auto GTS 2nd gear @ 4900rpm = 51mph
auto GTS 2nd gear @ 5000rpm = 52mph
auto GTS 2nd gear @ 6000rpm = 62mph

when shifting off the rev limiter in first gear to 2nd gear, the auto GTS will land at 4950rpm (typically 4850-4900rpm). with the TRD Exhaust on my car after a day or two of hard running, it consistently landed at 5000 exactly.

so it's powering through quite a bit of mph there. there's a gap of 5-6mph that it covers in that shift. or 600rpm. it does kinda bog/hesitate at the 4900-5000rpm for a second or two as the mph catches up to the rpm, but it powers through 45-52mph really quick, almost as if it was still in lift. then when it gets over 5200-5300, it falls flat on it's face cuz there's no lift until 62mph.

so i'm pretty sure slipping just a little during shifts on a manual GTS won't be that horrible for the car. even on the circuit.

[racinjason]

Slipping a little is not going to hurt it that bad. Actually its the people that slam gears are going to hurt thier syncros. As they force it into gear faster than the syncros can match the rpms. If you drag race frequently then you need to upgrade the proper equipment and learn to shift properly to ensure your tranny lasts. Just one bad shift can result in a chipped gear tooth or a damaged syncro. This can happen to any vehicle.

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

I can land in lift almost every time. Take it up to 8200rpm (cutoff is suppose to be at 8300) and shift fast as hell straight back with your palm holding shifter on the left side. You will also miss the reverse gates this way as well. Takes a little practice but car will land above 6k every time. If you power shift its even better.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

bring it all the way near fuel-cutoff and quickly shift into 2nd gear. make sure your foot is fully into the throttle as the rpms and speed goes up let go of the throttle step into the clutch all the way quickly shift into 2nd and back on the gas fully. all this has to happen quickly and it takes a bit of timing and practice. also make sure the gear lever is in 2nd gear before you release the clutch cause you'll grind the 1-2 shift. practice ona open road and you'll be fine. no need to powershift either just a quick shift and fast footwork and you'll land above the 2nd cam.