Matrix gearing check it out...

[TRD Liquid Silver]

we just got a used 6 speed Matrix that we took in from an owner that bought it 3 weeks ago. it's got 1500miles on it and he wasn't to pleased i guess with the loud high revving motor cause the guy was pushing 60, so he traded it in and bought a is300 sportcross from our lexus dealer.

of course as soon as i see it i had to rip on it and sure enough i did many times. while driving guess who i see on ronson rd and convoy ct but BLUE BATMOBILE himself. chased him all the way to a nearby parking lot and chatted a bit about the car and the site. we were like where do you go right now to post i said clubrsx.com and clubsi.com:nono: and he said celica.net.. oh well..

after driving the car and noticing that the car revs all the way to 8400rpms and a redline of 8200rpms i'm like WTF!!! and get this if you push all the way to 8200rpms it's landing @6200-6300rpms. another WTF!!! i even tried shifting at 8000 and it's still landing above the 2nd cam. i even made KLEEFTONSI drive the car (he was on vacation in cali) and he noticed it too. he even drove my car the day before and couldn't keep it above the 2nd cam. he said that's what everyone is talking about after landing @5500-5700rpms. when he drove the matrix he landed above the 2nd cam on every 1st to 2nd gear shift.

so i called a few people and 2 people from toyota said that the tranny and gear ratio's are not the same as the celica's. why?? of course i asked about the 2003 and if it was going to have the same ratio and tranny and they both said-- i don't know.. i even asked my district rep and she said the same thing and that 2003 will be the last year for our body style and a new celica will comeout in sept of 2003 as a 2004.:( i better start saving up...

if that tranny comes out for the 2003 there's going to be a lot of pissed off 2002 owners..

[Da Kine Guy]

*sniff* *sniff* I smell conversion :D

[djm221]

As far as I know, the transmission is the same. Did it have the 17" wheels? That would make it even worse if it did.
The gear ratios have to be in print somewhere.

[djm221]

These numbers are for the Vibe from Velocity.com

Type: Manual
# Ratios: 6-speed
Ratios: 3.17/2.05/1.48/1.17/0.92/0.72:1
Reverse Gear Ratio: 3.25:1
Final Drive Ratio: 4.53:1

Same as the Celica. In some other article I saw, they commented that the Matrix didn't get moving in 2nd until 47MPHs, that confirms the same ratios too.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

Originally posted by djm221
These numbers are for the Vibe from Velocity.com

Type: Manual
# Ratios: 6-speed
Ratios: 3.17/2.05/1.48/1.17/0.92/0.72:1
Reverse Gear Ratio: 3.25:1
Final Drive Ratio: 4.53:1

Same as the Celica. In some other article I saw, they commented that the Matrix didn't get moving in 2nd until 47MPHs, that confirms the same ratios too.

yeah i know those figures too but it's weird to see the vehicle land above the 2nd cam. kleeftonsi even said that it's weird cause from what i've read and what's he's read they should be the same. i thought about the 17" wheels as well and it should make it worse, but it didn't. i just don't understand what's going on...

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

its just cuz u can rev it higher...when i had my 02 i had no problems keepin that **** in lift and i shifted exactly 8000 rpm ...now im trying real hard and I still cant land lift 1-2 shift

[Jeff]

Maybe its more simple that the gear ratio. Maybe the celica flywheel is a wee bit lighter than the one on the matrix. This would allow the revs on the Matrix to drop slower and thus, be able to stay in lift more easely. This will hurt acceleration to an extent tho, and this could be one of the reason - beside the weight factor of the car itself - why the car is not pulling as much as the GT-S.

Just a thought. :D
Jeff

[autxr]

My theory:

Exact same engine, exact same transmission.

Why? Exactly the same produciton line for the Celica and Matrix drive trains. Why would Toyot atry and increase costs? The development is done, they make lots more money on the Matrix since the drivetrain was already developed, no need to offset R&D.

The difference? ECU. That simple. It revs exactly the same as my 2000 (Sept 1999 build) GTS, no different. The only difference is the paint on the tachometer.

Scott

[djm221]

How does that shifter feel anyway? Is it any different than the GT-S? Did you like that funky position?

[t2000gts]

i also hear the 2002 6-speed GTS transmission is easy as hell to keep in lift, if you have the higher fuel cut. nd4spd and some others misshifted their '00-'01 celicas, and got new '02 trannies put in. i've ridden in the car with him once or twice and he told me he has no problem keeping it in lift. a few other people on nc.org reported the same thing a while ago.

i think it's the shift linkage and/or the gates and maybe new synchros.

the gear ratios are the same in both cars.

what did you guys think of the matrix otherwise, just driving it around? how fast did it feel when you kept it in lift? :D

[racinjason]

Syncros, or shift gates will not make it easier to stay in the 2nd cam. Only gearing and the flywheel will affect that. I thought by what SCC said that the gearing was way off and it was a lousy setup with the stock 17" wheels and bigger rolling diameter of the tires.

Liquid Silver: How fast does it feel??? A 15.5? or better? I have a hard time believing SCC's numbers. Especially the way you describe it and how much you can rev it.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

it doesn't feel very fast compared to the gts and the 6k spike is not as noticeable all due to the weight, but i do think that high 15's is doable and mid 15's with some mods.

the heavier flywheel may be the answer to the car keeping the 2nd cam, but again like you guys said it would slow the car down. that's the only reason i can think of why the car drives the way it does. you would think with the bigger wheels and tires that it would even be more difficult to keep the cam, but it isn't..

[autxr]

Bigger wheels and tires do exactly the same thing as a bigger flywheel.

They make no difference in the transmission gearing (just the final drive).

Scott

[djm221]

If the wheels are bigger, you'll have more MPH to go after the shift from first to second, which should make it harder to powershift through, right?

[TRD Liquid Silver]

Originally posted by autxr
Bigger wheels and tires do exactly the same thing as a bigger flywheel.

They make no difference in the transmission gearing (just the final drive).

Scott

i just don't understand what these mag boys are saying that's it's difficult to keep it above the cam. it seems the complete opposite to me..

[djm221]

There is no physical evidence aside from the normal rev limit as to why it should be possible.
Guess we all need to go flog a Matrix :D

[Backroads]

perhaps new engine mapping smooths out the 25 hp lift hit a bit. This seems to be the trend anyway these days... look at the sickvic Si this year for ex. If the lift was simply smoothed out, it would perhaps also be broadened, thus the feeling of a lower rpm power hit. But is the hit as powerful? That would be hard to tell 'cause all hell breaks loose during those 1000 rpms and it's hard to pay attention. Anyway, I think the GTS Celica may become collectable some day. 2000-2002: The three short years when cars had huge lift hits, the Fast and the Furious came out, and the public's need for easy, tractable power for the city and everyday needs was thrown out the window by the crazy Japaneese.

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