just installed hotchkis rear sway bar

[markxxcelica]

just installed hotchkis rear sway bar and i dont feel that much difference.. is there a trick in installing these? it was pretty simple to install though.. my car is rolling on 17's, with tanabe strut tower bar, no springs though.. i have the front sways but just don't have the time to put em on yet..

[soceur]

take a tight corner at a higher speed and youll feel the difference.

[markxxcelica]

NEVERMIND.. I LIKE IT!

[soceur]

LOL Yea its not a mod you feel most times daily driving unless you drive like c2gas:) but once you push it in a corner or curve you can feel the bar at work! Glad you like it. Enjoy!

[hephaestus]

Which ones did you get? The comp. or street sways?

[TRD StreetRacing]

Originally posted by markxxcelica
my car is rolling on 17's, with tanabe strut tower bar, no springs though..

no springs as in ur rollin on stock spring OR no springs as in no springs at all :wtf: :gap:

[markxxcelica]

i have the street.. i meant i have stock springs :gap:

[TRD StreetRacing]

i know what u mean ...i just wanted to F*ck with ya :gap:

[BrianGTS]

I was about to say, how could you not feel a difference? sways are one of the best bang for buck/fun mods you can get for our cars next to a CAI.

[Redneck GT-S]

I've read that the TRD sways aren't all that stiff. I'm planning to go with the Hotchkis street sways front and rear.
I hope they aren't too stiff.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by Redneck GT-S
I've read that the TRD sways aren't all that stiff. I'm planning to go with the Hotchkis street sways front and rear.
I hope they aren't too stiff. Hotchkis is considerably stiffer than TRD. Unless the road you drive on is full of broken pavement, they won't be too stiff. Unlike springs and struts, sway bars won't really affect the quality of the ride. In fact, my car feels a bit more solid over uneven bumps now that my sways are on. I would suggest getting the Hotchkis Competition bars, since they will mostly get rid of your understeer, allowing you to take turns even faster than the Street sways. Always keep the front bar set on soft, unless you're on the track with an LSD and track tires. Otherwise, you're in for a world of understeer, Street or Comp.

[Redneck GT-S]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Hotchkis is considerably stiffer than TRD. Unless the road you drive on is full of broken pavement, they won't be too stiff. Unlike springs and struts, sway bars won't really affect the quality of the ride. In fact, my car feels a bit more solid over uneven bumps now that my sways are on. I would suggest getting the Hotchkis Competition bars, since they will mostly get rid of your understeer, allowing you to take turns even faster than the Street sways. Always keep the front bar set on soft, unless you're on the track with an LSD and track tires. Otherwise, you're in for a world of understeer, Street or Comp.

So you are recommending using the Comp sways, eh? I thought on Hotchkis' website they say these are too stiff for street? I'm wanting to go auto cross sometimes as well. But, I don't want it too stiff that it's a harsh ride. I know what you mean about not upseting the ride with just sways, but I plan on going with Tein basic coil overs and strut braces. I don't want the total combination to be so stiff the everyday ride suffers.

[BrianGTS]

I have the streets. I would get competitions if I had the choice again.

[Redneck GT-S]

Originally posted by BrianGTS
I have the streets. I would get competitions if I had the choice again.

That's good to know, I'll remember that when I purchase mine.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by Redneck GT-S
So you are recommending using the Comp sways, eh? I thought on Hotchkis' website they say these are too stiff for street? I'm wanting to go auto cross sometimes as well. But, I don't want it too stiff that it's a harsh ride. I know what you mean about not upseting the ride with just sways, but I plan on going with Tein basic coil overs and strut braces. I don't want the total combination to be so stiff the everyday ride suffers. The only part that will affect your ride will be the coilovers. I was just in a car with Tein SS-Ps, and the ride was smooth as butter, yet it handled phenominally, even on the soft setting. You've got nothing to worry about with the Hotchkis Comp/Tein Basic combo.

The only reason I've been able to think of why Hotchkis suggests the Comp bars not be used on the street is because the alter the balance of the car. You can induce oversteer much easier with the Comp bars than with the Streets, and the car handles more neutrally the rest of the time. I'd think the Streets would handle similarly to stock, with understeer at the limit. The only difference between Street and Comp is the rear bar, around 40-50% stiffer on the Comp. This should definitely help you in autox, letting your car rotate around the turns easier instead of plowing through them with understeer.Originally posted by BrianGTS
I have the streets. I would get competitions if I had the choice again. Get the ST rear sway bar. It's the same stiffness as the Hotchkis rear Comp sway, and only costs $125 from Bottle. I'm sure you'll be satisfied with the difference.

[Redneck GT-S]

Yeah, thats exactly what I was hoping to attain. Thanks a lot for your input, that puts to rest that internal debate.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by Redneck GT-S
Yeah, thats exactly what I was hoping to attain. Thanks a lot for your input, that puts to rest that internal debate. Just remember to set the front bar to soft, otherwise you'll be back to understeer.

[afghan]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Hotchkis is considerably stiffer than TRD. Unless the road you drive on is full of broken pavement, they won't be too stiff. Unlike springs and struts, sway bars won't really affect the quality of the ride. In fact, my car feels a bit more solid over uneven bumps now that my sways are on. I would suggest getting the Hotchkis Competition bars, since they will mostly get rid of your understeer, allowing you to take turns even faster than the Street sways. Always keep the front bar set on soft, unless you're on the track with an LSD and track tires. Otherwise, you're in for a world of understeer, Street or Comp.

Hotchkiss may be stiffer on paper, though I don't think you have driven a TRD sway bar set up Celica?!

I only am using the TRD rear sway bar with it adjusted in the softer setting.(Two settings on the rear bar)!!!

I have driven both companies and there isn't much difference, please.

Also, Please remember who you are telling to get the stiffest sways on street driven cars. This is very dangerous in the wrong hands! You don't want to be liable for somones inexperience and misfortune.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by afghan
Also, Please remember who you are telling to get the stiffest sways on street driven cars. This is very dangerous in the wrong hands! You don't want to be liable for somones inexperience and misfortune. Like I said, that's probably why Hotchkis recommends the Competition bars for the track only: to keep their asses out of lawsuits. ;) Saying I'll be liable for people crashing because of the bars is like saying the car companies are responsible for people misshifting GT-S'/RSX's/S2K's 6 speeds because their shift gates are too narrow. :rolleyes: I didn't force them to buy the bars, nor did I force them or even suggest that they should drive fast enough on the street to get into an accident because of the bars.

Besides, you can set coilovers to be extremely stiff, and alter the balance and response of the suspension with their multiple settings even more than with sways. Also, I would think people with just the ST or Hotchkis Autox rear bars would be in the most "danger", since the bars are really stiff and being used only with the stock front bar. It's probably possible to pull a 180 with just those bars by letting off the gas too fast or slamming on the brakes in the middle of a turn.

For reference, here are some sway bar stiffness/thickness ratings (as much as I've been able to find so far):

TRD
Front Sway (solid) = 25% stiffer than OEM
Adj. Rear Sway (solid) = 58%/?? (care to chip in, afghan?)

Hotchkis
Adj. Front Sway (hollow) = 43%/70% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)
Street Rear Sway (hollow) = 88% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)
Competition/Autox Rear Sway (hollow) = 123% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)

Whiteline
Front Sway = (24mm)
Adj. Front Sway = 22/26mm (24mm)
Rear Sway = (20mm)
Adj Rear Sway = 20/24mm (22mm)

OEM rear is 17.5mm. Front is unknown at the moment.

[Redneck GT-S]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Besides, you can set coilovers to be extremely stiff, and alter the balance and response of the suspension with their multiple settings even more than with sways.


That was a concern of mine, since the Tein basics don't have rebound or compression adjustment just ride height I believe. I don't want the sways to be so stiff that during cornering the shocks compress to quickly because they are not as well damped. I need to get more opionion on the basics. Or save up longer and go with JIC.

[Blue Bomber]

The sways really don't have that kind of affect on the struts. They're more for keeping both wheels on the ground during turns, so they'll actually help slow down overall strut compression.

[afghan]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Like I said, that's probably why Hotchkis recommends the Competition bars for the track only: to keep their asses out of lawsuits. ;) Saying I'll be liable for people crashing because of the bars is like saying the car companies are responsible for people misshifting GT-S'/RSX's/S2K's 6 speeds because their shift gates are too narrow. :rolleyes: I didn't force them to buy the bars, nor did I force them or even suggest that they should drive fast enough on the street to get into an accident because of the bars.


TRD
Front Sway (solid) = 25% stiffer than OEM
Adj. Rear Sway (solid) = 58%/?? (care to chip in, afghan?)

Hotchkis
Adj. Front Sway (hollow) = 43%/70% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)
Street Rear Sway (hollow) = 88% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)
Competition/Autox Rear Sway (hollow) = 123% stiffer than OEM (25.4mm)

Whiteline
Front Sway = (24mm)
Adj. Front Sway = 22/26mm (24mm)
Rear Sway = (20mm)
Adj Rear Sway = 20/24mm (22mm)

OEM rear is 17.5mm. Front is unknown at the moment.

Liable isn't the right word, or what I meant to say. I wouldn't sell an unforgiving car to an inexperienced person. I think you catch my drift. I don't want to find or hear of anyone wrapped around a tree for any reason.

As I said before, numbers(%s) are numbers until you actually experience them first hand.

The TRD rear bar is, I think 24mm thick(measured last yr), and it is a solid bar.

[coronaman247]

Blue bomber has a good point with keeping the front hotchkis sway bar set on the softer setting, but I am slight dissagreement with the comp rear sway bar. In theory, you want to keep your tires stuck to the pavement as solidly as possible. Which means, if your car needs to take just a slight amount of body roll to keep the tires from breaking lose, that is a good thing. What can happen with a very stiff rear end is the back end of the car starts to "skip" through the turn, which is not going to be a good thing. When your rear is skipping through a turn, you are slowing yourself down and causing your car to behave in a manner that many drivers will not be ready to handle. Besides the fact that when the rear does firmly plant both tires, the car might not be pointing in the direction that you want. Rarely are you going to get the full oversteer that you want from a front wheel drive.

It is all opinion, and depending on whether you want to take your chance with a rear that is hard to handle, but causes oversteer, or go with the smallest amount of body roll and keep your tires more firmly planted, is up to the driver.

Blue bomber might have a driving style that coincides with this incredibly stiff rear end, so I am not saying that he is wrong at all.

What I did was went with both front and rear hotchkis sways (sport rear), and then added a tanabe underbrace just for safe measure. I have an incredibly stiff rear end, AND i still get some oversteer that usually corrects itself right before it hits the point of tire skip. I also leave nothing, including my spare tire, in my trunk at all times of aggressive driving.

[Gilly]

Originally posted by afghan
Liable isn't the right word, or what I meant to say. I wouldn't sell an unforgiving car to an inexperienced person. I think you catch my drift. I don't want to find or hear of anyone wrapped around a tree for any reason.


Yeah a buddy of mine bought a brand new R6 last year. he'd neve ridden a bike in his life. the salesman had to show him how to ride it in the parking lot just after he bought it. i'm surprised he's still alive today.


they should give people a driving test to see if they can handle what they are buying.....

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by coronaman247
What can happen with a very stiff rear end is the back end of the car starts to "skip" through the turn, which is not going to be a good thing. When your rear is skipping through a turn, you are slowing yourself down and causing your car to behave in a manner that many drivers will not be ready to handle. Yes, the rear end can skip over moderately broken pavement, but not much more at all than stock. On good pavement, I've never had the rear skip on me.Originally posted by coronaman247
It is all opinion, and depending on whether you want to take your chance with a rear that is hard to handle, but causes oversteer, or go with the smallest amount of body roll and keep your tires more firmly planted, is up to the driver.The rear isn't at all hard to handle, and only slightly oversteers at the limit. With just a stiff rear bar (ST or Hotchkis Comp/Auox) and the stock front, though, it can get kinda twitchy, as a couple people on here have found out.Originally posted by coronaman247
Blue bomber might have a driving style that coincides with this incredibly stiff rear end, so I am not saying that he is wrong at all.That could be it, too. ;) Different tires could also account for different handling experiences.



Originally posted by Gilly
the salesman had to show him how to ride it in the parking lot just after he bought it.Sounds like me when I bought my GT-S. I didn't even know how to drive stick back then, but I knew an auto was a :nono: when it came to a Celica. ;)Originally posted by Gilly
they should give people a driving test to see if they can handle what they are buying..... Imagine how few SUVs there would be on the road then. :drool:

[coronaman247]

I just know that the way I drive, I would be oversteering all over the place and just keep sliding out of my turns.

So just chose what you want, but remember, if you don't have the rest of your suspension set up to handle the rear, you might be asking for trouble.

[celica001]

hotchkis sways rule! i got both fronts and rears on my car and i LOVE em....SOOOOO TIGHT round the corners its nuts.....i mean it just grabs like u cant believe....although my yoko avs's tires ate right through em....killed my tires fast cause i drive like i am in a F1 race ;-)

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by celica001
hotchkis sways rule! i got both fronts and rears on my car and i LOVE em....SOOOOO TIGHT round the corners its nuts.....i mean it just grabs like u cant believe....although my yoko avs's tires ate right through em....killed my tires fast cause i drive like i am in a F1 race ;-) Which ones do you have? Street or Comp?

[soceur]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Which ones do you have? Street or Comp?

[NoCones]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
They're more for keeping both wheels on the ground during turns
Actually, I'd say they're more for reducing body roll without penalizing ride comfort as much as stiffer springs. Stiffer sways will actually make it more likely for an inside tire to leave the ground

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

"The rear isn't at all hard to handle, and only slightly oversteers at the limit. With just a stiff rear bar (ST or Hotchkis Comp/Auox) and the stock front, though, it can get kinda twitchy, as a couple people on here have found out."

Id have to agree with blue bombers point on this one because I have this setup on quick switches on the canyon runs the ass end is a bit twitchy and I almost lost control a little bit...I just havent found the time to install the fronts yet....but it is quite fun to feel the ass end come around...Also the rear seems more solid over bumps and body roll was decreased considerably

[celica001]

bomber...igot the streets, but i got the fronts on the stiffest setting, seems fine, i dont notice that much understeer at all, i dunno wat people are talking about, i'll prolly put em back on soft this week and see what feels better.

[Lord Banshee]

i can get my ass end to rotate with stock sway bars... Must be my alignment :) lol.

I would like to get some stiffer sway bars but i don't need more oversteer then i already have so i would differently get the front and rear installed at the same time..