Nitrous setup.... more opinions

[Liqquid]

well, I finally took the plunge and decided to go n20,

on the way is an nx wet kit, autometer n2o pressure gauge, nx purge valve and fuel pressure switch. (all used)

I got the triple gauge pillar also.

now I'm looking at the dynotune a/f digital gauge/switch, it looks like an acurate a/f gauge (instead of led's) and will also shut the nitrous off if reads too lean.

bottle heater, blowdown tube.. and my origional plan was to get the dynotune digital n2o pressure (i think the autometer i'm getting is mech., meant to be installed by the bottle not in the pillar?), and their digital fuel pressure gauge.. so I'd have the a/f, f/p, and n2o in digi readout right where i can see them at all times.

I am very interested in what a few members here have been talking about doing, with the nx maximizer and direct port...
using the maximizer to basically "smooth" the power delivery out as if it were a forced induction system.. say from a 30 shot at 3000 rpm all the way to 100 at the power peak.

does anyone really know at that point, what the heat differance or stress differance on the engine would be compared to say, a turbo setup with a gain of 100 wheel hp at peak? I have read alot about the n2o "cooling" down the charge into the engine so as far as i know it should be just as safe as a turbo at those higher rpm's.

This makes sense that stock 2zz can handle this, as it would be more evened out.. in other words if you took a stock 2zz and 100 shot at 3500 rpm you'd probably destroy it. in the same way, a turbo with a gain of 100 at 3500 rpm would also destroy the engine.

well... let me get some discussion on this, I'm game to buy the stuff now that i actually made up my mind what way to go with it for this year..

[Liqquid]

ok maybe I shouldn't have went there.




how about this.. I have a aem (the origional, not v2) cai, If I don't have the $$$ to buy the rest of the parts for direct port before the event at Norwalk, oh in july.. I'll problably put the single nozzle in and call it good for the meantime...
anyone have that cai with n2o? I read somewhere on here that it's a pain cause the sensor is so close to the throttle body...

if anyone has that setup let me know if it worked out ok putting nozzle between sensor and throttle or did something special have to be done?

[mrtomcat]

since there is no Direct port system availalable for our cars at this point ,meaning if you want it you need to get it custom build, pretty much everyone is using the CAI solution

the AEM V2 also does not exist for the Celica so not an option.

The one you are talking about is the Gen 2 which has the MAF mount located very close to the throttle body.
I have the gen1 where the MAF is further away and it was very simple to install, maybe you want to look for that model even though you should be able to get it working with the new one with a bit of patience.

The maximizer does not work the way you're describing it above.
When you spray it does not spray a bit in low RPMS and a lot in High RPMS. The Maximizer let's you adjust the amount you spray per gear for example 25 shot in first, 50 shot in 2nd and so on.
Also the maximizer has the A/F monitor built in so theres no need to spend an addition $300 for the dynotune one.
make sure you get a window switch as well (the maximizer has that built in as well btw)

hope that clears a few things up

[Liqquid]

hmm... I was unaware that the maximizer did not allow rpm based changes, only gear to gear changes.

yes i was talking about custom direct port

that info on the maximizer is new on me.. I'm gonna go back to my other info and find where i read that from.

yes on the intake, I must have the new one then the maf is close to the tb.

[Quick_GT-S]

My understanding is that the maximizer alows you to control the amount on nitrous sprayed based on RPM and gear. That is why I have been wanting one. With a standard 50 shot kit you get about 70lbs of torque increase at 3500rpm and 35lbs at 7000rpm. With the maximizer you can spray I little bit in 1st gear (traction), then spray 50 shot at 3500rpm and increase to 100 shot at 7000rpm. You would maintain steady torque load on the drivetrain.

[Liqquid]

That's also what I thought...
I wrote nx but recieved no reply.....
maybe we can ask "Mr. and Mrs. Nitrous" lol

I probably won't have the $$ for it by the event I wanted to... but It was just obvious that if I was going to do it all at once I could get that and not have to spend 120 on a mallory and also wouldn't need to bother installing a wot switch.
Actually, I wouldn't need the a/f gauge/switch either, I could get the digi a/f gauge and save 100 bucks there too.

The extra gauges were just for added safety and looks... also because there is this odd thing about me that I like to know what's going on all the time with the engine.:wiggle:

maybe I'll see if I can get it anyways before that show, but if that's true and it doesn't have rpm based changes available, then I wouldn't really need it for much anyways...

[Liqquid]

I emailed Nitrous warehouse... I had to ask them about solenoids anyways.

[mrtomcat]

this is what their site quotes:

The Nitrous Express Maximizer, the controller that will revolutionize the progressive nitrous controller market. This unit uses a Palm PDA to upload and display the Maximizer information. This is the ONLY unit on the market with a built in RPM activated window switch with gear counting capability, the first with a TPS switch to activate or de-activate the nitrous system. The Maximizer also has a delay on, or delay off feature, will ramp up or down for turbo cars, and you can change the ramp parameters for each gear. Finally, the unit will piggyback on your O2

[Liqquid]

you have a good point. I always wondered why you'd need a window switch myself, it's not for the lower rpm engagement, it's pretty much just to shut it off if you run the r's up to high.

the maximizer, if it worked as we were describing should in theory let one run a larger shot on an engine like the 2zz, and fine tune it to act like a turbo, therefore reducing stress on the crank, rods and pistons.
we know that the gts can handle 275 to the wheels now at peak... but at 6000 it's not that much, so you wouldn't want to spray 100 shot there...
see what I mean?

[mrtomcat]

btw, I'm very interested in finding out where you end up with the direct port system since I'd like to replace my setup with one as well.
I wonder if one could change the the NXL kit to fit a celica

[Liqquid]

I was wondering the same myself... but I haven't done any research as in.. what other cars use our injectors, what injectors will fit in our cars, etc. (I'm sure that will determine if there's an nxl part for us)

I was thinking of using nx solenoids with dynotune rails and braded lines, with dynotune nozzles...
but again, without a maximizer this would be scarey depending on what jets you can get from them.

I was also going to try to use that intake manifold "plate" or gasket (the "plastic" one that isolates heat transfer to the manifold) if I could find it.

But the idea you have is safer, imo, after all, you cannot puddle fuel in the manifold... if it is never in the manifold!

[skreemin_trdgts]

Originally posted by mrtomcat
btw, I'm very interested in finding out where you end up with the direct port system since I'd like to replace my setup with one as well.
I wonder if one could change the the NXL kit to fit a celica

I was thinking of trying to make the NXL kit work too, but I made my own custom direct port set up. Really looks clean with the polished intake manifold and polished aluminum solenoid mounts. I made it & polished it all myself. Looks and works awesome! There's pics of it around here somewhere. The n2o really hits strong and I'm dying to get it to the strip to see what the numbers are.

[mrtomcat]

Bill, you did such an awesome job with the engne mounts, any chance you might start making the direct port system for sale as well?

ps i have not seen any pics, but I shall look :)

[skreemin_trdgts]

Originally posted by mrtomcat
Bill, you did such an awesome job with the engne mounts, any chance you might start making the direct port system for sale as well?

ps i have not seen any pics, but I shall look :)

Thanks! It's actually not that difficult to make the NX direct port system work on the GT-S. Just knowing where to drill the intake manifold for the nozzles is key. Making the solenoid mounting tray
and all the polishing is a little time consuming.
I don't think I'll be making it for sale though.
I got pics of it on my digital camera, but I always forget how to upload them to here. I'll try to get them up soon.

[mrtomcat]

yeah, because I could not find any pics of it anywhere.

[Liqquid]

it's on here... let me find the link....

[Liqquid]

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1460&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=500

its sooooo puuurrrrttttyyyy

and i am now officially a post whore for not editing

[mrtomcat]

very interesting. thanks

[skreemin_trdgts]

Yeah that's before I installed it and found out that I had drilled the nozzle holes too high up on the runners and the hood would hit the lines. So luckily had a spare intake manifold to do it all over again.
Here it is on the car:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p44ecd2123ed74dae4b8d40adaa298046/f853e1e2.jpg

You can see the purge hose going out the right side of the tray and it shoots out the small front grille in a V-pattern just below the GT-S emblem in this pic:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p9d4257f06969c74f184278a7509540ad/f853df90.jpg

[mrtomcat]

pictures are not showing up

[skreemin_trdgts]

dammit! they were showing up last nite :wtf:

[mrtomcat]

that seems to be a new little issue with 3rd party hosts, they can block you from linking to their site from an external one.
I looked the html source and found the image links and was able to see them

here are the links, that should work

direct port system (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p44ecd2123ed74dae4b8d40adaa298046/f853e1e2.jpg)

Front of car (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p9d4257f06969c74f184278a7509540ad/f853df90.jpg)

and yes it looks good

[mrtomcat]

damn it....that was blocked too....

anyways...I saw the pics thanks

[Liqquid]

yes it looks really good... I'm wondering, is that the direct port kit from nx, or did you start with a wet kit and upgrade it?
I'm wondering if there's any differance in the solenoids other than the flow capacity.... or for that matter if there is any flow differance.

[PhReEk]

let me start off by saying that i know nothing of what i'm talking about :) just a disclaimer first... anyway::

why, IF you could change the amout of spray relevant to the current RPM, would you start with a lower shot first, and go to a higher shot? why not start with a higher shot (i.e. a 100 shot @ 3000 rpm) and lean it out as the engine reaches it's peak to say a 50 shot @ 8000, so as to put less strain on the engine when it's at it's most vulnerable, and then you could get "peak" power at a lower RPM and even when shifting, keep that power constant all the way to, and past redline? a flat HP curve?

maybe i explained that more retardedly than expected... let me say it this way

think, the GT-S has 180 HP, all stock, at 8200 RPM i think?
so i'm just going to guess 120 HP @ 3000
and for the sake of argument, 160 HP @ 6000
so then, do a 100 shot @ 3000 (like i said) = 220
then equivalent of a 60 shot @ 6000 = 220
and then a 40 shot @ 8200 = 220

or does that not make any sense? that way even if you make a bad shift, or even a short shift, you have 220 HP ?????

[Liqquid]

take a look at some dyno charts on here...
basically the n20 is going to add to the engine's natural power curve, but in a "brick wall" way..
therefore, at 3000 rpm you would not get 100 hp with a 100 shot, you would get more like 100 foot pounds of torque, which will more than likely destroy the engine's lower end (connecting rods/pistons... or some critical part)

If you did manage to gain 100 horse there you would probably add 150 foor pounds of torque.. same thing happans.

you'll notice with turbo's and such, the power is gained on a curve... going from increased torque to increased hp as you go up the rpm band... the higher you rev the more the gain

since instead of forcing air into the engine depending on how fast it's spinning, we're injecting an extra shot of "air" in, rpm is irrelevent.

It would be great to have 220 horse at low rpm... but if you did, you'd have like 300 foot pound to go along with it...the equivilant of having full spool turbo at 15psi for example at 3000 rpm and our engines would not go along with that.

so the idea is to make the nitrous imitate the natural curve of forced induction electronically, therefore your power peak stays at peak rpm, and you gain less on the low end, keeping the engine in one piece but yet gaining the big power on the top end.

[skreemin_trdgts]

Originally posted by Liqquid
yes it looks really good... I'm wondering, is that the direct port kit from nx, or did you start with a wet kit and upgrade it?
I'm wondering if there's any differance in the solenoids other than the flow capacity.... or for that matter if there is any flow differance.

It's the NX direct-port kit. I'm not sure if the solenoids are different for this kit or not.

[Quick_GT-S]

Originally posted by PhReEk
let me start off by saying that i know nothing of what i'm talking about :) just a disclaimer first... anyway::

why, IF you could change the amout of spray relevant to the current RPM, would you start with a lower shot first, and go to a higher shot? why not start with a higher shot (i.e. a 100 shot @ 3000 rpm) and lean it out as the engine reaches it's peak to say a 50 shot @ 8000, so as to put less strain on the engine when it's at it's most vulnerable, and then you could get "peak" power at a lower RPM and even when shifting, keep that power constant all the way to, and past redline? a flat HP curve?


Let me add to Liqquid's replay. The strain on the engine is greater at low rpm's. A standard nitrous kit will spray the same amount of nitrous at all rpms'. Therefore at 7000 rpm you are getting only half the power that you are getting at 3500 rpm. This is because the pistons are moving twice as fast, but the amount of nitrous that is flowing to the engine is the same. That is why a nitrous controller is ideal for hi revving cars like ours. If you ramp from 50 shot at 3500 to 100 shot at 7000, your engine is seeing the same additional torque load.