Looks Like The Scion tC Will Have Some Competition

[Blue Bomber]

[quote]From Edmunds.com:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2004/04.saturn.ion/04.ion.redline.f34.500.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2004/04.saturn.ion/04.ion.redline.r34.500.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2004/04.saturn.ion/04.ion.redline.badge.500.jpg

...Saturn engineers swapped out the standard 2.2-liter Ecotec engine for a specially prepared 2.0-liter version that's built to withstand the unkind habits of aggressive drivers. Along with the steel crankshaft, oil-cooled pistons and heavy-duty radiator, the reworked Ecotec also features a Roots-type supercharger and an air-to-water intercooler for maximum efficiency. With up to 12 pounds of boost from the Eaton blower, the force-fed engine develops a healthy 205 horsepower and 200 pound-feet of torque. A low restriction 2.25-inch exhaust system keeps the gases flowing in addition to giving the Red Line a more noticeable snarl from its chrome exhaust tip. A standard five-speed manual transmission coupled to a short-throw shifter delivers the Ion's newfound power to the front wheels while heavy-duty, equal-length half shafts help keep torque steer down to a minimum.

The result of these significant drivetrain enhancements is an Ion that delivers more snap off the line and plenty of pull from just about any engine speed. Saturn claims a 0-to-60-mph time of 6.3 seconds and quarter-mile runs in the 14-second range.

Thrown through the long sweeping corners of a proper road course, the Ion Red Line proved itself a capable handler. There's minimal lean, controllable understeer and more than enough power in the brakes. Most eye-opening was the positive feedback from the retuned electric steering box

[DopeGTS]

Interesting, but it's still a Saturn. Good Find

[MicaCeli]

12lbs of boost and all it gets is 200 hp?

Doesn't the Tc only push like 7-8 psi to acheve the same power output?

[ArchangelX]

Doesn't the tC have bigger displacement...that would explain the difference in PSI? :gap:

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
12lbs of boost and all it gets is 200 hp?

Doesn't the Tc only push like 7-8 psi to acheve the same power output? Nobody knows the real output of the tC yet. GTSnut thinks it's more like 230-250. :eek: Then again, the tC has .4L more displacment, though it shouldn't add that much extra power.

EDIT: Dammit Arch, you beat me. :(

[jamezzz]

keyword, "some". not much

[F35-JSF]

I like it. Just need a different pulley:evil:

[ringthree]

I have read that the performance actuallity and the performance claims for the redline are very far apart.

[ArchangelX]

My pleasure, Blue... :thumbup:

Still, it's nice to see companies jumping on the performance game...

[JohnnyWash1]

I noticed that, but I would rather go for the new Cobalt--same setup, minus the ugly Saturn third door (or is it four?) and much better looking overall.


Jon

[Chelica]

tC looks way nicer IMO. More expensive looking, lol.

[RADR1732]

Funny this came up because I just drove it yesterday. I work for a GM dealership as a salesman and we have a Saturn dealership. Honestly... I was a little disappointed at it. It just didn't have the torque that I was expecting. My car running at 6 psi felt a lot stronger than the Ion Red Line. Don't get me wrong it has some power, but it was just not what I expected. I think the Scion tC would put a spanking to it.

Richard

[TRD-CELICA-GT02]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
12lbs of boost and all it gets is 200 hp?

Doesn't the Tc only push like 7-8 psi to acheve the same power output?

Yup, but the ION is a 2.0L while the tC has a 2.4L.

Just imagine the tC pushing 12lbs. Itd be a nice ride.

The tC still looks sleeker and sportier than the Saturn. The ION still carries the old styling that we're so use to on those Saturn coupes.

[Vant]

It's a Saturn... Its base price is also around 19k-20k (No one is sure)...

It's like... Why would you get a Celica when you can get a faster SRT-4?

It all goes up to... Domestic vrs Import... GM vs Toyota.... Which would you rather have?

Honestly... The new saturn looks too much like an import (EVO front resemblence to me... Infact that's the first thing I thought... A cheap EVO) while the Scion looks like an expensive coupe (Better then Kompressor if you ask me)...

The seats on the Redline looks nice though... But the rest of the interior is not my style... (Speedo and all that other crap is on center console) And the rear resembles a bit like the tC...

[TRD 2ZZGE]

Lol..does this saturn's wing look like a TRD celica wing but a smaller version?? WHIMPY...but has balls to back it up like 12lbs of boost. The tC is a 2.4 and this saturn is a 2.2.

[Vant]

Redline is actually 2.0... But with S/C...

I just noticed the Badge...

GENIUS! It's a line that's RED!

[larryd]

I like the color.

[TRD GT-S]

meh...i'd take the tc. The styling of that redline sucks.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by TRD-CELICA-GT02
Yup, but the ION is a 2.0L while the tC has a 2.4L.

Just imagine the tC pushing 12lbs. Itd be a nice ride.

The tC still looks sleeker and sportier than the Saturn. The ION still carries the old styling that we're so use to on those Saturn coupes. The tC also has almost 400 extra lbs. IMO, the tC looks like an egg (though I do like the interior :) ). I don't care for the Ion's looks much, either, but at least it has a unique and sportier style, unlike the tC which borrows styling cues from too many cars.Originally posted by Vant
And the rear resembles a bit like the tC... You mean the tC's rear resembles the Ion. The Ion came first. :)

[lowendfrequency]

I saw them at sema this year and I wasn't really impressed with the overall appreance. I guess we will just have to wait until they put some times down to determine performance.

[Johnny Wolf]

I'd take the TC over the Saturn...

I've seen them both in person (SEMA).The TC IMO resembles an AUDI, and too me just looks cleaner. The ION reminds me of a PONTIAC and the interior looks cheap.

Just my 2c.

[Butt Dyno]

Originally posted by MicaCeli
12lbs of boost and all it gets is 200 hp?

Doesn't the Tc only push like 7-8 psi to acheve the same power output?

Ion Redline is 9.5:1, TC is 9.6:1.. not huge but something to do with it too

john

[xspwolf]

well, Ion is crappy econobox that got crappy reviews from pretty much every mag out there, main concerns are worse-than-echo interior quality and bad build quality.

After that... well, weight on edmunds.com is listed wrong, sportcompactcar (may 2004) listed weight at 2960lbs, which is correct. They also say that their test ION pushed 197hp at wheels!

Ecotec 4 cyl. DOHC 2.0 16v
9.5:1 Compression
Roots style Supercharger making 12.5psi
Laminova Air-Water Intercooler

Wheel HP- 197@6450RPM
Wheel Torque-169@5200RPM

0-60MPH in 7.1 sec.

Now, you got tC which will be $1,000 less expensive with SC than ION, bigger engine, around the same power, have more equipment (pioneer mp3 player, panoramic moonroof), better and more expensive suspension, much larger wheelbase (3.5" larger!) and still be slightly lighter.

Not to mention that tC build and material quality will match much higher priced cars...

whos ur daddy?

as said previously, tC will own it all...

[oamisnwa]

how an original name, take out the "si" in scion.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by oamisnwa
how an original name, take out the "si" in scion. LOL, the Ion concept car came out at least two years ago, long before Toyota announced Scion. :rolleyes:

[lowendfrequency]

Originally posted by oamisnwa
how an original name, take out the "si" in scion.

wouldnt that spell "con" ? :wtf:

[celica001]

^lmao werd

he mean "SC" i think...i hope ? hehe

[Tikked Again]

Well it's certainly dissapointing that they did not use a turbo on the ion. It would have been much easier to copy the design over from Saab....but noooooo

[lowendfrequency]

I just saw an ion redline at the dealer up here in rochester yesterday (I wish I had my camera). It looks as if saturn has jumped on the 2fast bandwagon. it was lime (puke) green metallic and had HUGE black graphics running up the side.... kind of like thick black lines shooting out at angle from the front wheel well....... chrome wheels too. :gay:

[Littleguy]

I just got back from driving a tc at a launch event, and it is really cool. Very good build quality, suprisingly quiet and everything seemed very solid and tight. The 5 speed was fun, seemed about as quick as a celica gt. Engine was very good on the low end and mid-range, a little dissapointing up top. Overall, I think this car is a really good buy, much better build quality than in a saturn.

[F35-JSF]

Originally posted by Tikked Again
Well it's certainly dissapointing that they did not use a turbo on the ion. It would have been much easier to copy the design over from Saab....but noooooo

Prehaps but the thing will be torquey. Perfect for around town driving.

[Lomeinhu]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
LOL, the Ion concept car came out at least two years ago, long before Toyota announced Scion. :rolleyes:

Hard to say. With today's technology, the process from concept to a presentable model is drastically reduced, so tC MAY have been on the drawing tables long before the ion did, even though the tC was announced later. Add to that the fact that Toyota's usually conservative, which means they'll go through the design stage much longer for a new car. Domestic brands in particular, work on shorter schedules, mostly because they find themselves needing to update and put out new cars more often than non-domestic brands to compete. This, however, doesn't discount the fact that the tC borrows design themes from lots of cars.

[Littleguy]

I've been told the tC only took 14 months from concept to production. It was quick cause they used the Caldena platform and the camry motor and tranny.

[Ugly Pete]

oh man. saturn is trying to enter the fnf market with that. laaaame. id take an NA tC over that.

[PoweredbyRICE]

isnt there at SC cavalier coming out soon as well?

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by PoweredbyRICE
isnt there at SC cavalier coming out soon as well? Supposedly, but the Cavalier will be renamed Cobalt. It will probably share the same engine and chassis as the Ion Redline.

[sleepy celica]

eww that's one fugly car.

[P40TigerShark]

Interesting Blue.

I'd take the tC as well tho. Lot nicer look'n IMO. Looks more like an audi to me also. There is an 19'' option which fills up those wheel wells pretty nicely.

By the way the tC is on the avensis platform not the caldina.

[mattgoldey]

As I said in the tC thread...

My Celi is still prettier.