Pro Solo

[Al2ktoy]

I know there have been some changes to this year's Pro Solo.
Such as, no more staging assistance or wheel chocks anymore. The Open/Super Challenge.

But did the SCCA change the christmas tree? Does the tree go 3 yellows at the same time, then green? Or the same as last year, one yellow each downward?

R/T is now .5 to leave by green? Or the same as last year: .5-1 second. .5 being perfect, under .5 redlite, and over 1 second, DNF?

My Pro is this weekend at LA. :)

Thanks,
-Alan

[pitcrew]

New version of the old tree (consecutive yellows) They were going to try a pro-tree (all yellows on at once) at the early Topeka event, but changed their minds, and are supposed to use the regular tree all this season.
BIG CHANGE: reaction times are added to your on course times for a total time for the run.

[NoCones]

is an RT over 1 sec still a DNF?

[B1mmer]

As long as you don't redlight, you're golden. I heard through the grapevine that pitcrew had an interesting reaction time for his 1st run at Ft. Myers. Is it true Charles? - Aaron

[nxracer]

Did it involve snoring?

[B1mmer]

The gossip is that he had a 2 plus second reaction time on his first run on one of the two courses, so snoring may be involved. Luckily, with 6 runs on each side, it made improving a much easier task.

[pitcrew]

Actually it was slightly over 3 sec. They had been screwing with the xmas tree for 2.5hrs while we sat in grid in the first heat. Finally they called us up to run with the replacement tree. I wasn't sure what starting procedure they were finally going to use, so I watched the car in front of me. The starter asked each if they were ready, then started the tree. I expected him to do the same for us, so I staged then immediately looked at him as I was holding the emergency brake. Out of the corner of my eye I see the tree start down, but still waited for the starter, thinking that they were once again testing the tree. Only after I see my partner in the other lane leave does it dawn on me that I should have gone. That was my fastest on course time...
We didn't get 6 runs! Since it took so long to get the tree working, they decided to drop the first round entirely, so we only ran one round each day.

[Fourgig]

NO ONE will be able to top my embarrassing 1st run at Irvine this weekend...

[pitcrew]

OK, you opened the box, so do tell...
(so I can feel better...)

[Fourgig]

My first run was a solo run on the right side. I didn't pay attention to the car running in front of me cause I was nervous and busy trying to figure out how to stage. I'm also not used to the miserly use of cones at Pro Solos.

So, I'm staged up and the "shot clock" is ticking down to about 5 seconds. I start looking for the first apex cone and I can't find it in the sea of unmarked cones. I start panicking....then the first light go yellow...still don't see the first apex cone...the light goes green and I launch...still don't see the cone...oh wait, there's a cone to the left! So I go flying towards that cone. Wait, it feels like I'm too far towards the left side of the two courses...ok, go thru the slolam...this doesn't feel right...ok, here are the two boxes...wait, this doesn't feel right either...****! The turnaround on the right course should be towards the right...why am I heading towards the one that turns towards the left?? DOH!!!

As soon as I exited the drag chute, I should have turned right to get to the first cone but I went left. So I actually ran the LEFT side course instead of the right. I felt like driving straight back to Nor Cal after my 1st run but I don't think my wife or the owner of the car would have appreciated me doing that. ;)

[NoCones]

:eek:

[Al2ktoy]

Ugghhh.... I don't want to really talk abou this...but I'll clue everyone later.

-Alan

[CamaroFS34]

Wow, Fourgig... I'm glad to hear that happened on a solo run!! :(

Karen

[NoCones]

not meant as a jab at you, Fourgig, but in the Tour and Pro events I've done, I've always thought more cones were used than at local events I do...less left to the imagination...what is the impression of you other guys?

Bryan

[preparedcivic]

Not to jump in and answer the question, but from his hometown, Fremont, CA, it looks like he hails from San Francisco Region, land of the miniture road course. Literally hundreds of cones delineating the outer boundaries of the course. I think they have lightened up some in recent years, but I remember some photos in the early 80's where the cones were no more than 2 or 3 feet apart on each side.

[NoCones]

Aaah, Fremont...spent a couple weeks consulting at the Tandem plant there a few years back...

the question was meant for others to jump in...just curious how others think national courses compare to their local events. I've autoxed in DC, Richmond, and now Blue Ridge Region of VA...I've found the national courses to be the simplest to follow and find (that doesn't necessarily equate to them being the easiest)

Bryan

[Al2ktoy]

Originally posted by preparedcivic
Not to jump in and answer the question, but from his hometown, Fremont, CA, it looks like he hails from San Francisco Region, land of the miniture road course. Literally hundreds of cones delineating the outer boundaries of the course. I think they have lightened up some in recent years, but I remember some photos in the early 80's where the cones were no more than 2 or 3 feet apart on each side.


Well Mr. former SEB Liaison, you 'jumped in' anyway and gave a smart-ass answer. Searching at your very difficult to-navigate website, your solo2 program at NNJ barely has 100 drivers showing up for your events. While the SFR region with its M-I-N-I-*A*-T-U-R-E road course held an event in the start of March and had 340 drivers with a strong Novice program.

At the same time, our miniature road courses have produced some national champions last year, so it must be working!

Bryan, to answer your question:

The beginning of last year, the region attempted to try out a few National type courses with not so great results. We had more than usual DNF's and the feedback was negative. To even it out, the courses were scaled back some (more cones, more chalk outline, and some novice mentors to help out.) If you are a new Novice driver and get a bunch of DNFs, do you think its fun and will you come back?! There has to be some balance.

Now in Fourgig's (Ted's) defense, he's a product of the Novice program from last year. He barely has a year of auto-x under his belt and never has had a formal class. Novice program brought him up slowly without him being killed in open class. For him to have the guts to drive in National event says plenty about the Novice program. You have to start somewhere!

It's not so easy to critique someone's driving skill if you were not at the event. Yeah, the Pro should be a short 'up-and-back' course but I was at the same event as Ted and it was very, very technical course. I could see why Ted had a hard time.

Sorry, Mr. Foley for giving you a return smart ass answer, but poking fun at a region and displaying a holier-than-thou, "I've been driving since the early 80's" attitude isn't too good. I come here to support other Celica drivers not poke fun of them.

Just a note, the person who is hosting and 'saved' this board (Russ Johnson) is also a SFR region Novice driver.

-Alan

[RexPokinghorn]

preparedcivic, i'm sorry if we're not gods of autocross, where you only need a single cone to get the gist of how a course is supposed to go. But a few of us have less than 5 months of experience and cones help.

Yeah, you may have a lot of experience and you should be really competitive, but i'd think it would also mean that you might be a little smarter.

Coming from a certain region doesn't mean you don't know how to drive a course. A lot of famous names that I've read in Sports Car / Grassroots come from the SFR / Sac region. You, sir, just stereotyped Fourgig.

Either way, I didn't appreciate it.

[powercx]

Originally posted by preparedcivic
Not to jump in and answer the question, but from his hometown, Fremont, CA, it looks like he hails from San Francisco Region, land of the miniture road course. Literally hundreds of cones delineating the outer boundaries of the course. I think they have lightened up some in recent years, but I remember some photos in the early 80's where the cones were no more than 2 or 3 feet apart on each side.

Haha, this is a funny comment coming out from NJ. Maybe you should look at a recent photos instead of from the old age 80's. Like NJ is any bigger than the bay area. You're right Fourgig is from SFR Region, but Pro Solo was in Los Angeles, the land of 8 lanes freeway. Though the land was big, they didn't use enough cones. Which was the same case last year.

[Fourgig]

Originally posted by NoCones
not meant as a jab at you, Fourgig, but in the Tour and Pro events I've done, I've always thought more cones were used than at local events I do...less left to the imagination...what is the impression of you other guys?

Bryan

Well, I've never been to a Tour event and this is only my 2nd ProSolo event (1st one was at Atwater last year). IMO, it's a lot harder to figure out a Pro Solo course vs a regional course. For instance, in the last slalom at the Pro, they only used a pointer cone on the 1st cone. From my experience, that doesn't mean a slalom to me. And having a course marked out with chalk lines really gives you a visual que of where you need to be.

But what do I know...I come from the land of mini road courses...whatever that's supposed to mean. :rolleyes:

[NoCones]

guys...lighten up a little. I don't think preparedcivic's comment was intended to demean SF region. The "miniature road course" comment just meant (I think) that courses he had seen from that region looked like small versions of road courses...completely outlined with cones, just like a road course is completely outlined by curbs, grass, guard rails, etc...there's no doubt where to go. That's all I took it to mean.

He didn't say "they do that because the drivers there stink." He didn't say "SF is small, NJ is so much cooler

If that's not how your region's courses look anymore, fine...just tell us that...no need to start a regional war.

Bryan

[preparedcivic]

I said:
-----------------------------------------------------------


Not to jump in and answer the question, but from his hometown, Fremont, CA, it looks like he hails from San Francisco Region, land of the miniture road course. Literally hundreds of cones delineating the outer boundaries of the course. I think they have lightened up some in recent years, but I remember some photos in the early 80's where the cones were no more than 2 or 3 feet apart on each side.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Me thinks I struck an unintended nerve. I was not intending to flame, make fun of, comment on amount experience, etc. hailing from SFR. It was matter of fact comment on how SFR has historically set their courses up, which is condiderably different than most anywhere else in the land of SCCA, even other regions in California, where I have in fact run local events. Please tell me where I criticized anyone in the above statement, aside from maybe certain past leaders of the SFR program? I'm thinking of a particularly annoying to me person who is a proponent of the above course design concept who I doubt is anywhere near this board. For this I get ripped a new *sshole.

If anyone deserves an apology it's me. Now, to respond to the nastygrams zapped in my direction.......

As for www.autox4u.com, it is privately run as a hobby by someone who has a lot of fun with it, and is not a computer geek professional, so if it isn't pretty and up to your standards of navigation, too bad. It works for me and everyone else in this part of the world.

Also, saying my program only draws a hundred cars, so it must suck. That same day there was another SCCA region's event (Philly Winter Series, a points event versus our practice non-points) 30 miles away that drew 140 cars. this day was 40 degrees, with a 20-30 mph wind all day, with rain threatening that day, with snow and all over much of the area 2 days before. great weather making you want to hang out in a parking lot all day.

As for being a SEB member for 4 years, gee, I didn't know that service disallowed me to share an opinion, however right or wrong some might think it is. It took up about 2 full weeks of my time a year, much of spent on such exciting topics as Sprite valve sizes. Woo-hoo.

I've only met a few people here in person, so nobody knows I'm the one doing my region's novice walkthrough's, riding along doing instructor runs, giving up local competition runs taking novices as passengers. Giving away Evolution School pointers. Anyone offering that your way? For free? You get it from me as long as you want.

Now to answer Bryan's question on course similarities close to home vs. elsewhere and Nationals, the biggest variables I've found are the general amount of real estate available and course width. Most are pretty common throughout the country, having run local stuff all over NEDIV, and a few locals in San Diego, Denver and down south. Actually, I find a course with fewer cones easier to follow, because there is less visually to digest and have to sort through to pick the right line. Ever heard the phrase "sea of cones"? We had a Divisionals course at a runway site that was like that, where pretty much everyone was forced to drive it gate to gate instad of looking 3 or 4 ahead like you're supposed to. The Tours and Pro's held locally are generally designed by the host region, so they look similar to the what is found most weekends. Topeka is another deal. Gates will be 2 or 3 times wider, allowing or forcing a driver to pick the best line for the quickest time. Also, throw in the elevation differences there along with surface conditions, generally a minimal number of cones, and some visual tricks.

Now, can we all please get along?

[Al2ktoy]

Rob,

I know you

[preparedcivic]

OK, apology accepted Alan.

It was in no-way to be taken as a reflection or a reason for someone's ability or not to drive, because of where they were from. It was meant as a statement commenting on differences in course design philosophy, remembering back to a period in time when a popular bumper sticker at Nationals was the simple phrase:

"We don't really care how you do it in California"

All the animosity caused mostly due to a few people in SFR back then who attempted to lord themselves over everyone, both in the region and elsewhere. Miniture road courses are great-everything else is dumb, and that's why we have more National Championships than anyone was sort of the gist of it. Some are still around, just no one listens to them anymore. I think I'm the only one who's been around long enough here to remember. I started Auto-x in college in 1985, and made my first trip to Kansas in 1989. Aside from 1997 when my wife was about to pop, and I was only allowed out of the house to go to work, I've been there every year since. This allows or causes my memory to be prehistoric from time to time. Also why my user thingy says young old timer. I'm not old, but fell like I've been around forever. Take your pick whether that's good or bad.

Pro courses can tend to be very transitional and busy, given the side to side layout. Sweepers in the middle would take up too much room. Thinking back though, most have been lined. Does El Toro still have any active military use? There may be site requirements that don't allow it to be spread.

Since you're on the left coast and I'm on the right the only time we'll likely meet is in the middle. Nationals plans anytime soon?

[nxracer]

Want to get mad a region...

We created the dreaded "Chicago Box".

HA

[pitcrew]

Originally posted by nxracer
Want to get mad a region...

We created the dreaded "Chicago Box".

HA

Which, at a number of AX's, I have moved to Toledo...
:chuckles: :D

[preparedcivic]

Ah yes, the Chicago box, a perfect example of an unecessary use of cones. Looking at the key pylons, it is nothing more than a 3 cone in and out slalom. A great example of what to focus on and look at, and ignore the rest.

I auto-x'ed for 5 years before running into one, actually a pair, at a ProSolo in Miami, of all places. Couldn't figure them out at all and sucked major wind. I think I finished like 10th in DS, largely due to the ^%*&! boxes. Might as well have been DFL for how well I drove.

[nxracer]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Your not supposed to tell how easy they really are.

[ConeKiller]

Hey getting started in this sport in South Florida..

We had down there... Key West Boxes. Whats a Key West Box, well... lets see if I can ASCII draw it.


XXXX XXX
X X
X X X
X X
X X
XXXX XXX

Kindof like a closed in Chicago box...

Rick

[nxracer]

XXXXXXXX
XX
XX
XX X
XX
XX
XX
XXXXXXXX

[CamaroFS34]

Wow, this thread got mean!! :(

As for what happened to Fourgig, can I say in his defense that I've seen several other people go off course onto the other course, and a couple did not do it on a solo run! And not all of these people were novices!! In fact, at the Jacksonville Pro in 1998, both GH Sharp and Terry Baker (who have quite a few years of autocrossing between them) came extremely close to going onto the wrong course at the beginning also, though they corrected themselves before it happened.

I didn't interpret Rob's response as a slam on anyone or any region -- he was simply answering Bryan's question about the use of cones in various regions, something no one else has done.
On a happier note, who's going to Houston? :) Make sure you check the website for details about a detour on I-45 if you are. I'll be there in a Corvette.

Karen