Sell me on the Celica (possible new owner)

[PuckPuck]

Ok, first off I own a 2000 Cougar. I'm not looking to sell this car or anything like that, what i'm looking for is a car to buy my soon to be wife. Although she likes the Cougar, having 2 of the same cars in the driveway looks kinda corny. Next up is the Celica, she again likes this design. What I'm asking is for you guys to tell me why I should buy the Celica, what model (GT, GTS, etc), should I look for a used one (how good is the resale, if not that great then used is a real good buy), and why I should get this and not say a VR6 or RSX-S or WRX or Eclipse. Price IS a concern.

My fiance can drive stick, although she's more concerned with looking good then driving fast, so unless the GTS offers incredible speed improvements and other niceties, I really can't justify the increase in price. I will end up putting mods on this car, but right now the only mods I can forsee, are Intake/Exhaust (maybe headers) for souncd, body and lowering kit as well as some rims, and finally a stereo, besides that I doubt I'll be doing many more mods.

[mwz26]

Go test drive one.....

[PuckPuck]

I truly hope someone can give me some insight besides saying "go test drive one", if I was to base my purchase on that then I wouldn't be here asking questions. (if you didn't figure it out i have already driven a GT - dealership won't let the GTS go out on test drives)

[mwz26]

if they wont let you drive a GTS find a different dealer. The only person that can sell you on the car is yourself. I know salesman that can make canned sh!t sound good. Not too many people are going to tell you not to buy a Celica when you come to a Celica board.

[F22-Raptor]

Well the resale isn't tremendous but it is decent. Like most toyotas it will even out about 3 years into the loan. (What I was told by the dealership) I may be a bit biased but I like the design over the other cars..I do like the way the WRX looks and the RSX but the RSX looks like it was taken from the Celica's looks. The WRX you either love or hate her looks. Nice power AWD traction but a lot more maintenance due to AWD and the Turbo. I have been driving my Celica for a while and haven't had to do a thing except oil change. Been driving toyotas for my whole life and never had to do anything to them. As far as a GT vs GTS it depends on how good a driver your wife is and how she drives it. The 40 horses make a difference especially since you're not planning on doing anything big. Plus I don't know where you are but here it is only 2k more with the addition of leather and bigger tires. worth it in my book. I think the Celica would be a nice addition to your household as a low maintenance, nice well rounded car. A word of caution though until she gets really used to the 6speed tranny on the GTS do not let her shift fast. There is a tendency sometime for people who don't watch what they are doing to blow their motors by mis shifting. Hope this helps.

[PuckPuck]

F22-Raptor - THANK YOU, this is the kind of response I have been looking for.

Unfortunately a dealership is usually far less informed then the users of a message board, and that's why I came here to get more insight. As for going to another dealership, the next dealership is over 100 miles away so that's out of the question.

Now I do have a concern about this (which is something a dealership could never tell me)
There is a tendency sometime for people who don't watch what they are doing to blow their motors by mis shifting.
WHAT?!?!?!?! Does the tranny not have a block in it that would stop you from going down too low of a gear?

Also I'm still looking to find out about the differences from GT to GT-S, oh and if there are any certain things to look out for, maybe certain build dates to avoid, are the sunroofs problematic in the Celicas, any other very common problems/nuissances to look for.

[F22-Raptor]

The new '03 Celica GT-S gates are supposed to be a little wider so that misshifting doesn't happen as much but apparently people are trying to shift into 4th and hit 2nd instead. There is a rev-limiter but when you go over by about 3k it ain't stopping ya. And the 1800 band of lift is a great experience. Personally I bought a GT for one big reason I want a turbo and don't want to do a large amount of engine work to put one on. With the GT-S running 11.5 to 1 CR turbos aren't happening with any serious boost. From what I have heard I haven't heard any leaking or anything from SunRoofs or squeaking. Most of the noise in my cockpit comes from the keys hitting the dash.:) Other than that the Celica was rated pretty darn high for reliability and they are a lot easier to work on than Honda/Acura's.

[mwz26]

There difference between the GTS an GT is "lift". The GT is equipped with a VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing w/intelligence) engine while the GTS has VVTl-i (Variable Valve Timing w/ lift). This "lift" engages at high RPM's, similar to Vtec, and when engaged uses a larger set of cam lobes. The result is an extra 40 Hp on the same size engine. Also, the GTS manual adds a sixth gear while the GTS auto adds "Tiptronic" 4-speed shifiting via the stearing wheel.

There have been reported problem with swueeks in the sunroof but any dealer should be able to fix this.

There have been numerous misshifts but I have heard less of this in the newer GTS since there is a lowere fuel cutoff than in the previous models. There is not way to block this, and you will have a tough time getting it replaced via warranty although many people have.

The ride quality is pretty much the same for the GT and the GTS but if you are looking to add any kind of forced induction, the GT would be the better choice due to the lower compression ration.

Anything else?

[PuckPuck]

nope... i think you nailed everything for me on the differences between the 2... i may end up going with the GT then especially if it's better for the forced induction area as if i ever do decide to add serious power i will be going the FI route.

Thank you very much.... now it's time to pick trim and options :)

(buying a car as a gift for someone else can be hard - especially if it's a surprise)

[NoCones]

I've owned both GT and GT-S.

You only know the difference between GT and GT-S when you spend a lot of time above 6k rpms. The peak hp diff of 40 is big, but it's not exactly in the most usable part of the powerband.

The suspensions are identical.

The only sunroof problem I've had is dirt build-up where the 2-piece sunroof visor slides over itself.

As for the mis-shifting, it can happen in either car (any car for that matter). The GT-S "problem" has gotten quite overblown around here.

[PuckPuck]

As for the mis-shifting, it can happen in either car (any car for that matter).


That should read in any Celica. Not trying to dogg it, but I have driven many manual cars and in all of them you could not downshift to a lower gear if going to fast as the transmission will not allow it. Seems to me Toyota was doing some cost cutting and decided not to add this feature to the trans on the Celicas. I know an engineer who helped design the powertrain of the Celica, I'll ask him about it and see if I can get more details. No real biggie though.

[NoCones]

the capability to mis-shift is certainly not exclusive to the Celica.

I found 2nd gear in my 99 Miata at about 80mph once...fortunately I realized it before the clutch was fully engaged.

New RSX's seem to be having mis-shift/blown engine problems much like have been widely reported here for GT-S

the synchros can make it difficult to engage a low gear at high speed, but I don't think many (if any) transmissions have specific provisions to prevent a gear that will result in over-revving.

Bryan

[Jacque Strapp]

That I haven't seen mentioned yet is brakes: the GT has disc in front, drum in rear, while the GTS has discs all around. If I was buying one new from the dealer, I would still buy the GT: it's not worth the extra money for rear discs and 40 extra horses way up the power band. I found a great deal on a used GTS, though, so I went for it.

[jotan82]

Buy my car!!!

[PuckPuck]

Personally - I would buy your car, but I don't think the colors suit my fiance very much.

I think I'm pretty well set on the GT, now I just gotta go back to the dealership and check one more thing that I forgot about and that's the blind spot. Besides that as long as the bank gives me the cash you guys are looking at a new member :)


Sooooooooooo is there a site anywhere that has all the body kits and lowering kits for this car laid out so i can compare them? :D

[GTS LAID]

you can look at the gallery within this site... or you can go to teamunison.com they have it laid out nicely there too.

good luck... and enjoy your new acquisitions the car looks great, is very reliable, has a high resale value (ppl are selling their 2000 model years for 17K) and are relatively nimble within their class. Every time you drive a GT-S you'll think you're watching jekyl and hyde all over again .. that car is really scary.

[MilinGTS]

you have to drive one once to understand.

yes the wrx is nice. i have driven one. its a powerful car, lots of traction
but its not as "fun" as the celica.

the celica feels like a big toy.

its like a 23,000 dollar playstation...especially the GTS

its the kind of car youll get attached to.

its just plain fun.
the looks you get from other people, the feeling of driving wiht the windows down, sunroof open. its small and very tossable so it has very playful feeling to it.

whenever i go for a drive it brings a smile to my face.


driving it will make all the difference. take a manual GT or GTS out fo ra spin to get the full effect.

[Austinbrtndr]

puck... trust me... im a car salesman at acura in austin... i do love the rsx... but i just bought my second celica... a 01 gt... and i love it... i can only imagine how badass the gts is... but i am doing mods as we speak... still waiting on turbo... the car is very fun to drive... better than the rsx in my opinion... you will get a better price on the celica than just about any other car in its class... plus you get the vvtl-i... which is just an incredible engine with a world of possibilities... look at the honda vtech and where its at now... pretty soon we'll have just as much kickass aftermarket as they do... whatcha got for the cougar? dont get me wrong... the cougar is a nice car... but where can you go with it mod wise... and whats the resale on that bad boy right now... trust me... the celica is definitely the way to go!!!

[PuckPuck]

Well not that I'm trying a cougar vs. celica thing, nor do I want to get into a big flaming war, but I personally find the cougar looks better than the celica, but I still do think the celica is a hot car (just slightly too short for it's agressive lines), also I have driven a celica GT auto and manual, off the line you won't beat my cougar, even in stock form, at 3000 rpm the cougar does 120+tq at the wheels, which is a far cry of the under less than 100 that the celica does at the same rpm, this makes the cougar having a power band 4K long while the celica's is only really 2K long (or shorter), however i also find that a skilled driver would have more fun driving the celica as when it does produce power it really does produce it, just too bad it's way up there in the rpm range, wich slightly sacrifices daily driveability.

as for resale, yes the resale of a cougar sucks and that of the celica is awesome, although that sounds good to me, it also sounds bad to me as i would like to buy a used one, but for the price difference i'm almost better to get a new one.

finally mod wise for performance the cougar has about the same as the celica, we do have a few more potentials i'm not sure if engine swaps are possible on the celica but many people are now adding .5L of displacement by doing a simple swap (3L v6 doing 220hp/220tq stock), no ECU changes needed and the only custom fab is cutting/grinding the main shaft, mod wise cosmetically however the celica owns hands down, although we are getting a cougar wide body kit next month.

so anyhow that's what i have been able to devise as a compare between the 2, again that wasnt' really my goal, the cougar is not an option for me for another car as i think it would look corny, and right now the celica is winning the race hands down,

[pensfan83]

Originally posted by PuckPuck
WHAT?!?!?!?! Does the tranny not have a block in it that would stop you from going down too low of a gear?


Nope. My man NoCones (Go Hokies!) is right.
If you want one that'll do that, buy an automatic :D

Originally posted by F22-Raptor
There is a rev-limiter but when you go over by about 3k it ain't stopping ya.


The rev limiter only works when you stay in one gear. It does not protect against downshifts, so you can get into the silly range as far as RPM's go if you do misshift.

[Personafied]

If you want one go get one.....its up to you if you want to own a Celica....obviously you have been thinking about. None of us can persuade you when its going to be your car. 99% of us are very happy with our Celica's. MWZ26 said it best "go test drive one"

[Kit99bar]

get the Toyota Matrix
your wife wants to look good. and it has plenty of room for groceries and has 4 door and is nearly as fast as a celica

:)

[00 LSM GTS]

Toyota Matrix XRS sounds good too, iif you want to look at that. It has the same engine (2zz-ge) as the Celica GT-S. It weighs 300lbs more than the gt-s which would make it a slower car, but faster than the celica gt. They retail around 18-21k, so not a bad deal, comparing it to the celica

[Austinbrtndr]

i must agree with LSM GTS... but it is kinda ugly...

[pensfan83]

"It's a . . . it's a . . . uh . . . bluish . . . uh . . ."

[Kit99bar]

HAHAHA that is so funny

[raspy voice]"it's a bluish, silverish....."[/raspy voice]

[FriedRice]

what money range are u looking at? there are better family cars available out there.... a celica is certainly not a good family car..... but yea. test drive it. you already have a cougar though... maybe try getting a bigger car, or something of a different class? to me, it would be like owning two computers of the same speed.... yea u can use both, but like how useful is the other one? im not good at explaining thoughts, but yea.:confused:

[PuckPuck]

1. I do not want a family car, we are just getting married not having a family (sorry but i'm getting sick and tired of friends and family saying when's the baby coming - when i don't plan on doing so for quite a few years) my only child is my cat, and if i wanted to hear the pitter patter of feet i'll put shoes on her :)

2. This car is for my fiance, which makes this task even harder, I need to get a car that she will enjoy without her knowing i'm getting her this car. We have been talking about getting her a new car in the past and she really likes the Celica, *cough*T/A WS6*cough*, 300ZX, and RSX. I have mentioned the matrix to her but any kind of wagon looking car will never be driven by her, and yes i think with a body kit they look hot but she doesn't so i don't get one. As for test driving, well I have driven a 2000 GT auto, and 2002 GT manual. Yes the manual is a little more spiffy, but the ability to grab a lower gear then safely needed (with engine going poof) and the auto being quite good (for an auto) I will prolly end up with an auto Celica GT, now i'm really just debating new vs used, and given the high resale value of these cars it's making this decision even harder :(

[CelicaNamja79]

Since this is for your fiance,

Speed should not be an issue, and if so. GT auto is a good choice. Interior is sporty, quiet, and somewhat sophiscated. Exterior kicks a$$ compared to other sport compact cars (IMO cougar cant even come close to celica's style). Toyota is known for their reliability and resale value. Exceptional warranty services and all. I am not gonna go into too much details since you test drove the car. Suspension rocks, gas mileage is pretty good and insurance is pretty low.

On scale of 1 to 5

Interior quality: 3 (used too much plastics)
Interior styling: 5
Exterior quality: 4 (cheap paint compared to older Celica)
Exterior styling: 5
Gas consumption:4 (23/32)
Handling: 5
Power: 4 (Come on, it is only a 4 banger)
Speed: 5
Reliability:5 (Toyota name says it all)
Resale value:5 (Import)
Price:4 (somewhat over priced and too many options)


Puck,

I own a GT stick! This is not bogus rating. Hope this helps.

[FriedRice]

um.... gas economy for gt auto is the best 29/36 or something of that nature..... but i'm a stoplight hero, so i get like 1/36. i think its just a little less than a corolla, and with 140 hp, i think 36 miles to the gallon is pretty dang good.

GT auto is good for you then. (not to sound sexist or anything, but many girls drive auto's, and prefer it to manuals)
get it new... you never know what the previous owner's done to it... like on this board.... most people dont even care about break in period.... so... its risky when u get a used sports car......

my $.02.

[PuckPuck]

about the used, where I'm from in Ontario Canada, the seller must provide a full Car Fax report on the vehicle and dealerships must provide some kind of warranty and mechanical background on the vehicle, the one i'm looking at the GT Auto had 48K kilos on it (about 29K miles) and was driven by a girl, who had to sell it due to having a new family and needed a family car, the car fax matched what the dealer told me.

my problem with it right now is price, the dealer wants 22,500 CDN (about 14K US) + taxes which are 15% here and well for a 4 banger which is almost out of it's orginal factory warranty i'm kinda hesitant. yes i'm looking around for another one, but no other car lot i found had a used celica in my area, this weekend i'm prolly gonna drive the extra miles and go check out other areas, hopefully i can get something more reasonable.

[oldster]

Negotiate an extended warranty into the package with the dealer.