UniChip vs PFC

[GTS-Smooth]

Ok here's the deal, i just won 1g from the lotto, its a scratch and win one if ur wondering, SO i want to know whats better between Unichip or PFC, i did a search, and there's just too much junk to read through. All i need is some hard facts and my decisions will be made. Sorry if this is a repost but i used the searched for it like this "*Power FC vs Unichip*" and it didnt give me much to work with.

[Oli]

i'm not going into the reason but, Power FC all the way!

[Automaton]

Don't even bother asking this. Everyone on here will say PFC just because that is what they all have and it was the first one that everyone started using. I don't think many people on here even know much at all about the Unichip. The one long thread on here about the Unichip does not even have a dyno yet to compare against the PFC. I think so far the only thing verifiably "better" about the PFC is that more people have it and that there is already a "pre-tuned" base map available.

[cool2miketlu]

Unichip is a piggyback, no matter what you do to piggyback it can not change some stuff programmed into the ECU.
If you have GTS Celica you can lower lift engagement and raise the redline and get rid of fuel cutoff. No piggyback can adjust these parameter, atleast it does not exist yet. Right there it shows PowerFC is superior.
Piggyback will always be know as "standalone wanna be's"
You only go piggyback if there is no choice, like late 03 and 04 celicas with drive by wire throttle system.

[CIN]

The PFC enables the mapping of much more features. Also the PFC has a higher resolution than the Dastek IIRC.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Automaton
Don't even bother asking this. Everyone on here will say PFC just because that is what they all have and it was the first one that everyone started using. I don't think many people on here even know much at all about the Unichip. The one long thread on here about the Unichip does not even have a dyno yet to compare against the PFC. I think so far the only thing verifiably "better" about the PFC is that more people have it and that there is already a "pre-tuned" base map available.

you make it sound so one sided. power fc has been proven several times on both N/A AND F/I cars. people talked ish about the PFC back when I firs tgot it. and then again when we anounced we were tuning it ourselves. and here we are with some of the biggest gains :)

I have yet to see a dyno from unichip which leads me to believe they must still be working on it. so until its officially out with some dynos on more then 1 car and independent dynos it's going to continue to be doubted.

the toyota matrix XRS that posted 185 whp with I/E/Unichip sold his unchip already cause he said it just didnt seem to be working after that day. and even though I suggested an independent dyno he just sold it. lol thats the only experience I have talking to someone with a unichip.

If it turns out to be as good as they claim then more power to them. it would be nice to see more mods come out. at the same time people shouldnt get sucked into the hype and pay for crap that dont work like the AMSS header :gap:

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
at the same time people shouldnt get sucked into the hype and pay for crap that dont work like the AMSS header :gap:


What you talking about?? I have my AMSS header.... Just playing :gap:

[kaioshin]

There was another thread about this. Basically they are the same. PFC will let you do more, as stated previously. It will allow you and/or a tuner to tune the engine to your liking whenever you want.

If you just want a sort of plug and play mod, then go with the Unichip. Keep in mind that if for some reason your engine runs more lean or rich than the car that the map for the unichip was originally created for, then you will not get the maximum potential out of the unichip UNLESS to take it to a certified tuned for them. You would also have to do this each time you wanted to get the most out of a new mod.

So, I guess it just depends on how often you want to tune and how much you are willing to pay up front.

[bagodoosh]

i am not sure if you guys are aware of the unichip's performance warranty.. if you strictly care about the gained performance and not what's done to get there, unichip offers for 90 days: that no other ECU product makes more power in the customer's vehicle. Both clauses are for either a free replacement and/or re-tune to remedy the problem or a ful refund including parts, labor, and tuning fee. taken from ffteng.com (http://ffteng.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68) which is a certified unichip tuner.

not sure how they define "ECU product", whether it's piggyback only or full ECU replacement like PFC. but it seems like a sure bet to test out both, and if PFC makes more power, return unichip. if unichip makes more power, there will be plenty of buyers for PFC.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by bagodoosh
i am not sure if you guys are aware of the unichip's performance warranty.. if you strictly care about the gained performance and not what's done to get there, unichip offers for 90 days: that no other ECU product makes more power in the customer's vehicle. Both clauses are for either a free replacement and/or re-tune to remedy the problem or a ful refund including parts, labor, and tuning fee. taken from ffteng.com (http://ffteng.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68) which is a certified unichip tuner.

not sure how they define "ECU product", whether it's piggyback only or full ECU replacement like PFC. but it seems like a sure bet to test out both, and if PFC makes more power, return unichip. if unichip makes more power, there will be plenty of buyers for PFC.

wow thats a good idea :) i'm sure theres some kinda fine print or restrictions somewhere. lol would be very interesting to see someone dyno both and see what happens. actually it would be nice to see an independent dyno of the unichip.

[bagodoosh]

got a response from jack:
my email:
i was reviewing the 90day unichip performance warranty at the following site: http://ffteng.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68
i have a few questions regarding..

1) what's your definition of an "ECU product"? does it have to be a piggy-back unit or can it be a full ECU replacement unit like the apexi powerFC?
2) what's your criteria for "more power"? peak TQ/HP or area under the curve?
3) anything else in the fine print?

jack's response:
Thanks for the inquiry. Obviously, area under the curve is the goal and generally will be greater with the Unichip. Torque is what the engine produces and what can be directly measured... bhp is just a mathematical calculation based on torque. Because we provide complete control over timing and fuel, we can always set the optimum values which is why nothing else can make more power. That includes stand alone systems and re-flashes.
The "fine print" is just to ensure the comparisons are equitable; making dynos read what you want is pretty easy. All we're striving for is a fair test.

sounds like a fair deal to me.

[00silverGTS6spd]

wow thats pretty cool.

[phaqgm]

I have the Unichip in my car, and I have just recently replaced my clutch (which has now been properly bed in). I will now be getting an independent dyno done on my car to show the gains provided by the Unichip.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by phaqgm
I have the Unichip in my car, and I have just recently replaced my clutch (which has now been properly bed in). I will now be getting an independent dyno done on my car to show the gains provided by the Unichip.
very cool

[Automaton]

:werd: finally a dyno on its way.

PHAQGM:

So did the Unichip tuning folks already do their "real time tuning" on your car and fully optimize everything? If so, how long have you been running it without reseting your ECU? Are there noticible gains when not at WOT? I know a lot of people have doubts about ANY piggyback system retaining its increases with our stock ECU, especially at partial throttle.

I think the real time tuning is a cool thing to have because you can adjust settings in real time while the car is running on the dyno at a certain RPM. Is this also how people tune with the PFC, or do you have to stop the car, make changes, then start the car up on the dyno again to test the results of your changes?

[Tung]

I think most people who own a 03 GTS want to know if it works with DBW, once it is clear then a lot more independent testing will come out.

[Automaton]

It should because the stock ECU is left in place

[Blk03Corolla]

Just to give my 2 cents on the Unichip I have been extreamly happy with the chip and the company. They make a great product and in terms of gains the pfc should make just as much as the unichip in theory because they both control air/fuel and timing virtually the same way so I guess it would be in the hands of the tuner at that time. But as a company and product Unichip has been amazing I would refer them to anyone looking for good service and product

[Rave669]

I've got an auto GT-S, I'll probably be going with unichip, only because the only other option is a brashboy ECU.

Of course, If I can figure out how to change the EPROM/FlashROM on my own via reprogramming ir swapping the FlashROM itself, I may just try to reflash the ECU's ROM, instead of the 2002 ROM program, I'll put in a 2000 model Year ROM, which may eliminate the need for a 2000 Knock sensor swap as well. It would be a good starting point for me; I'm still just experimenting with it right now.

We Sportshift guys need to get creative to compete.

What about Split Second, what's the deal with that system? Looking to enrich the fuel on my auto GT-S

One more thing, does anybody know how the sportshift tranny is controlled? is it by a seperate computer module or off the main ECU? It may be possible to increase stall speed a little, firm up the shifts some through electronics since the tranny is computer controlled through solenoids (Think TBKO module :) ) this is the case on most modern automatic trannys.

Looking for good options or any input; I am formulating a strategy for my buildup.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by phaqgm
I have the Unichip in my car, and I have just recently replaced my clutch (which has now been properly bed in). I will now be getting an independent dyno done on my car to show the gains provided by the Unichip.

update?

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by Blk03Corolla
They make a great product and in terms of gains the pfc should make just as much as the unichip in theory because they both control air/fuel and timing virtually the same way so I guess it would be in the hands of the tuner at that time.


Difference is PowerFC handles all A/F management so there will not be any adjustment to the A/F by anything else other than what a tuner program into it. However Unichip is a piggyback which "adjusts" the A/F mixture the ECU is sending, the stock ECU is still in play thus the speculation of whether they work or not. Becuase ECU may or may not detect variation from original programing, and it may or may not adjust A/F so the piggyback became just an eye candy. Some ECU are easier to manipulate than others, like Honda's you can easily reflash the stock ECU but Toyota is one of the hardest to crack...


To the person who wants to crack the ECU and reflash...
Many have tried I do not recall anyone who have luck in cracking it (some shop that claim they cracked it but they did not, all they did is put their sticker on stock ECU and mail back to owner saying it was "reflashed")

[Automaton]

An email reply from Jack at Unichip is pasted below. Let me know if it doesnt make sense without my original email to him and I can post that. This unit should work correctly and not get canceled out by our ECU according to his explanation. I also have a dyno graph showing HP and torque converted to flywheel numbers with Injen CAI and "Catback exhaust." There are big gains low and mid range, decent gains up top too. Peak was flywheel 200hp, so probably around 174 or so to the wheels. Not sure what the A/F ratios were. I will try to put it up online. Here is the email from Jack...

Thanks for the inquiry, and sorry for the delayed response. Right now, the Celica PnP kit is on the back burner because the initial group buy which newcelica.org was trying to put together failed to materialize. Without that GB, I'm focusing our R&D
efforts on other vehicles.

The good news, however, is that for guys like you who are looking for custom tunes, we can offer a limited number of PnP harnesses without entering full production. To answer your questions...

There are two shops in LA that can tune the Unichip. Brainstorm Performance
(310.313.0088) and Connie and ****'s Service Center (909.626.5653).

We don't have any may specific Celica dyno runs, but we've done lots and lots of 2ZZ-GE work with the Matrix (complete control over timing and fuel), and have done a Celica (control over the engine in a Celica). Gains depend very much on what modifications have been done to the vehicle. I've attached a dyno for a 2001 Celica with an Injen CAI and a catback.

For a normally aspirated car (no NOS, no water injection, etc...) retail for a pre-programmed kit is $699. A "zero map" kit for custom tune is $599 and I'd expect to pay about $200 for the tune.

"Some" don't completely understand how the car works. The car can monitor performance everywhere in closed loop and make changes based upon the data (o2 sensor) that it monitors. It is, however, by definition incapable of learning in open loop because
there is nothing monitoring performance (the o2 sensor can read that rich). If you make "global changes" by adding a bolt on part which modifies performance everywhere, the ECU will "see" those changes in closed loop and apply global corrections of it's own to eliminate them (or it will give you a CEL if it can't). Those global changes do impact open loop operations. The Unichip has over 53,000 points for each timing and fuel which can independently manipulate data at very discrete points. We can make completely different changes at any point and, therefore, can make the OEM ECU completely happy in closed loop while doing whatever we want in open loop. The OEM ECU will never see the open loop
changes because they occur only in open loop where it can not monitor performance.

Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions.

Jack

[Automaton]

Here is the dyno FINALLY:

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/11215unichipdyno.jpg

[Automaton]

00silverGTS6spd:

What was your HP on regular 91 octane gas? I think I remember you saying that your 183HP is on race gas, correct? If so, then 91 octane and a streetable tuning with the PFC is probably right around the same numbers as this unichip dyno. But regardless, it sounds like the unichip could duplicate most if not any PFC tune if you have the data to do it, so they should be equal.

[Sguerra923]

unichip sounds promising...

[cool2miketlu]

You can say the same thing what he said for an S-AFC...
Make OEM ECU completely happy (make no adjustment in closed loop so ECU do whatever adjustment it wants)
Make performance gains in open loop (every AFC does this)
Better tell us more on what he means by "making OEM ECU completely happy" and how he does it, and if we are allowed to make maximum power gaining adjustment to the closed loop operation and ECU will not readjust. If it can do this then it is alittle closer to what PowerFC does, so it is still not comparable until he answer that question.


Is that an independent dyno run?
I would like to see an independent dyno on this... Once after install and another after about 3 weeks.

[Red01GTS]

Originally posted by Automaton
Here is the dyno FINALLY:

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/11215unichipdyno.jpg

Damn, that looks real nice!

What mods have you done to you car?

[Automaton]

This isn't from my car. I don't know who's car it is from. It is just the dyno that Jack sent me. I don't know if you can read the text on the chart, but it is from a 2001 Celica (GT-S I assume due to the RPM range) with Injen CAI and some type of exhaust, and the numbers have been adjusted to flywheel values. Probably the only dyno he had access to since he says they have not done many Celicas. Looks pretty good though. I would tend to agree with him that some people do not understand how the car really works, and thus we have all the piggyback ECU haters :)

I have faith that this chip could work. The Celica ECU can't be that different from every single ECU in the world. I am sure they all read sensor readings and try to maintain certain operating levels for things such as A/F ratio, timing, etc. But if you are intercepting 100% of those signals and changing them to whatever the stock ECU expects to see, then I don't see why it shouldn't work. At that point, the stock ECU is basically taken out of the equation. The trick seems to be that if you miss some of those signals, and they reach the stock ECU, then the stock ECU may start changing things. I asked Jack to verify that the Unichip makes gains in closed loop, and provide more info on how they "keep the OEM ECU happy," so we will see what he has to say.

[cool2miketlu]

I would not trust any dyno manufacturer sent you.
They can dyno the base numbers at around noon @ 90 degree temp then wait until 9P.M. and dyno again at 50 degree would show alot of gains... This is one way to manufacture a HP gain to sell products. I still want to see independent dyno.

[Automaton]

Here is a follow up from Jack at Unichip.

Cliff Notes:
Basically the chip must be tuned to not do too much in closed loop mode. In closed loop, the car should be tuned to just level out what needs to be leveled out within OEM specs (such as adding fuel at low RPM for a CAI). If you are driving around in closed loop, that means you are at low engine load, and by definition not asking the engine to make much power... so they leave closed loop operation MOSTLY up to the stock ECU. The stock ECU will not "learn" anything in closed loop because they are not changing anything drastic fot it to learn while in closed loop. When the car enters open loop (ie. when you get on the gas and put the engine under more load) they are free to tune any way they want for max gains because the stock ECU is out of the picture in open loop. People who think piggybacks don't work probably tried to tune them too heavily in closed loop, where you wouldn't gain much by agressive tuning anyway, and the stock ECU saw those drastic changes and took action on them. Here is the email...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem, I think, is people don't understand the operational areas that are closed loop and those that are open loop. Closed loop is essentially when you're just cruising... there is no requirement to make power in closed loop. Rather, closed loop is
about good mileage and emissions. Closed loop can and does occur at ANY rpm and is defined by load... for all practical purposes on a normally aspirated engine you can take load as how far are you depressing the gas pedal. Regardless of rpm, if you're not getting on it, the engine's in closed loop. Regardless of rpm, if you are in it, the engine's in open loop... i.e. at full throttle and 2,000 rpm the engine is in open loop, but at that same rpm when you lift the throttle, you're in closed loop. At 20% throttle and 7,000 rpm, the engine is in closed loop, but as soon as you push the pedal down, you're in open loop. Think of a spread sheet with the vertical axis labeled rpm and the horizontal labeled load; every point your engine operates at is defined by some rpm and some load. However, any rpm can exist at any load (a single row in that spread sheet) and any load
can exist at any rpm (a single column). Open loop is essentially the right quarter of the chart (high load, all rpm) while everything else is closed loop. If you follow that logic through, there is no reason to look for power gains in closed loop... by definition, you're not asking the engine to make power. Your foot is
asking the engine to be efficient not make power. There is no value to making power at 50% throttle... but don't confuse that with 50% rpm because the two have nothing to do with each other and are frequently confused. Without spending a lot of money, heavily modifying the car, and getting a guaranteed bust on any emissions test, there is no way to make more power in closed loop because it is a closed solution around 14.7 - 1 A/F ratio as mandated by the federal government. That's where all the learning occurs, and the only place it can learn. The problem comes when you make "coarse" adjustments to the car by adding
something like a CAI to the car. Virtually all CAI's make power not by flowing more air, but by changing the field conditions in the vicinity of the sensor... they fool the car into injecting less fuel, which is generally the correct solution for virtually all
production cars in an essentially stock condition. Unfortunately, air's response isn't linear so what might be fine a 5,000 rpm
absolutely isn't fine at 2,500 rpm and vice versa. The result is most CAI's do produce a power gain... over part of the rpm band (where the coarse correction is proper). Most also produce a power loss over other parts of the rpm band (where it isn't). The biggest problems, however, is that CAI's and other bolt on components make changes only in relation to rpm and have no capability to change with respect to load. That means they make changes in closed loop WHERE THOSE CHANGES CAN BE DETECTED AND CORRECTED BY THE OEM ECU. Those corrections - known as fuel trims - are what are commonly known as "learning."
The Unichip works differently... we don't make coarse corrections. Rather we have individual data points (over 53,000) which correspond to both a rpm and a load at which we make precise corrections. If we make a series of changes in open loop, that's the only place they're made... they aren't occurring in closed loop, so the stock ECU can't see them, so it doesn't ever realize it should learn. That isn't to say we can't make changes in closed loop, we can. However, those changes are always back to the desired 14.7 A/F ratio because that's the only logical solution when you're loping around town. With precision electronic control, we can make both a smoother running and efficient engine (in closed loop) and maximum power (in open loop). That's what I'm talking about when I say we can keep the stock ECU happy. If the OEM ECU is learning because of a modification on the car, we can correct the A/F ratio so the OEM ECU doesn't see the change and doesn't make any corrections. Please let me know if I can answer any additonal questions.

Cheers,
Jack

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by Automaton
Here is a follow up from Jack at Unichip.

Cliff Notes:
Basically the chip must be tuned to not do too much in closed loop mode. In closed loop, the car should be tuned to just level out what needs to be leveled out within OEM specs (such as adding fuel at low RPM for a CAI). If you are driving around in closed loop, that means you are at low engine load, and by definition not asking the engine to make much power... so they leave closed loop operation MOSTLY up to the stock ECU. Cheers,
Jack


Hmm so this is just another S-AFC then why not buy S-AFC and save couple hundred bucks?
So the owner of Unichip confirmed this is very similar to S-AFC, maybe closer to Split Second FTC1-E or GReddy E-manage. But this is no different from those piggyback, only advantage is plug and play adaptor.
So it is official that this is just another piggyback computer and no where close to what standalone can do.

Another interesting point is that dyno is manufactured, since he said closed loop there is no adjustment but that dyno shows more power in low throttle when it is in close loop.

[Automaton]

I do not see the additional price of a stand alone to be justified for most of our needs. SAFC costs less? Should it also work with drive by wire? I would have to ask all these same questions to someone at APEX'i to see if it will work the same.

I don't think the dyno is manufactured like you say. True it is showing bigger gains at lower RPM, but that is not necesarily at partial *throttle* like you are thinking. I would think they dynoed at WOT (ie. open loop) to show what the max gains were. But even at partial throttle (closed loop) you will see gains if you have mods because it should be able to correct the problems that CAI's cause down low and bring the car back to factory spec.

Sure a stand alone could maybe make more gains at low load (aka partial throttle) since there would be no learning going on in closed loop. But it is not that big of a deal because at low load you are basically just cruising around town and not asking the engine to put out a lot of power anyway. Who cares how aggressive your tune is when your cruise control is turned on? As long as it is aggressive when you hit the gas, that is what matters. I don't think anyone races at 50% throttle :)

But the main thing to recognize is that piggy back ECU's CAN work on our car. So people should stop saying stuff like "That is useless on our car" or "The stock ECU will just learn over anything you try to do with that thing" etc. etc.

[00silverGTS6spd]

ok, I'm at work so I cant get into this at the moment but IMO something is not right with that dyno graph. looks like crank power and not whp. no way is an I/E gts at 190 whp :rofl:

I look at it more during lunch. (cant post as much these days lol )

[Automaton]

Shame on you for reading posts at work :nono:

But yes, it says the numbers are converted to flywheel numbers. Plus answer the question of what HP did your car make on 91 octane gas?

[mirconrice]

that dyno graph doesn't look like a GTS motor in my opinion. Look at where lift supposely kick in, its around 5k or so. I don't know, to me, it just doesn't look at like a GTS engine...if it is, then wow, its pretty smooth and linear.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Automaton
Shame on you for reading posts at work :nono:

But yes, it says the numbers are converted to flywheel numbers. Plus answer the question of what HP did your car make on 91 octane gas?

my street map is in my sig on 91. my track map on 100 is set to a 14 a/f and made the same power hot as my street map made cooled down.

but those are old numbers. my fuel pump is dying so after I replace it I'll have new #'s soon. I'm still waiting on some mods to finish before I put down the really good numbers.

those dynos were merely a beginning ;)

[mirconrice]

Originally posted by Automaton
Shame on you for reading posts at work :nono:

But yes, it says the numbers are converted to flywheel numbers. Plus answer the question of what HP did your car make on 91 octane gas?

hmmm if thats flywheel numbers, thats not bad...I figure I'm making plus or minus around 220 to the flywheel figure a 12-13 percent drivetrain lost.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by mirconrice
that dyno graph doesn't look like a GTS motor in my opinion. Look at where lift supposely kick in, its around 5k or so. I don't know, to me, it just doesn't look at like a GTS engine...if it is, then wow, its pretty smooth and linear.

it's been smoothed thats why :)

[Automaton]

So your 183WHP is with 91 octane and just AEM CAI and PFC? Pretty good! Is that using safely streetable reliable daily driver settings on the PFC? It should be possible to create the same map on a Unichip in open loop. I was thinking I should get more mods than just my AEM CAI before getting a tuning chip, but maybe not?

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
Another interesting point is that dyno is manufactured, since he said closed loop there is no adjustment but that dyno shows more power in low throttle when it is in close loop.
read jack's email more carefully because unless you missed his biggest point, you don't seem to understand the difference between "load" and "throttle"...
R

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Automaton
So your 183WHP is with 91 octane and just AEM CAI and PFC? Pretty good! Is that using safely streetable reliable daily driver settings on the PFC? It should be possible to create the same map on a Unichip in open loop. I was thinking I should get more mods than just my AEM CAI before getting a tuning chip, but maybe not?

I put 500- 700 miles per week on my car easily. I wouldnt be running something that would make in unusable as it is my only vehicle :gap:

where you at in socal? you're more then welcome to stop by and check it out sometime.

[cool2miketlu]

ok I see it does not start until 2000rpm at full throttle, my bad.
But it is still manufacturer's dyno, also using a conversion to get the numbers. I want to see independent dyno and power at the wheels not to the flywheel.

[143hawaii]

The dyno's believable. Just ask CIN for his dyno with a PFC I/H/E + decat on his 2ZZ Spyder, the curve and total output looks very similar.

[mirconrice]

yeah i guess measuring it at the flywheel as suppose to the wheel are different. Its a lot smoother than what my dyno looks like and I had it smooth all the way. I wonder how much I'm making at the flywheel then seeing that I put down 193 to the wheel.

[All_MTR_GTS]

193, u animal u, i guess having the lighter flywheel helps?

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by mirconrice
I put down 193 to the wheel.

Dynojet or dynopak?

[mirconrice]

Originally posted by 143hawaii
Dynojet or dynopak?

it was done on dynojet

[mirconrice]

here is my 193 whp dyno.


http://67.119.161.21/nc/crazycelicadyno18.jpg

[00silverGTS6spd]

^^ was that 91 or 100 octane?

[mirconrice]

it was done with 91 octane...haven't had the chance to put 100 octane and go dyno yet.

[monkeywrench]

When looking for a tuning tool you should look at:

1. Unit's abilities
2. Unit's compatibility with your vehicle
3. Unit's effectiveness
4. Unit's price

1. SAFC can trim fuel, but a few have had trouble tuning the open loop area only so now everyone thinks it doesn't work. Unichip and eManage both trim ignition timing and fuel, they have pretty much the same abilities. PFC replaces the ECU and has full control over fuel, ignition timing, rev limit, idle, VVT, VVL... MUCH more powerful then the piggybacks.

2. SAFC, as mentioned above, seems to present Celica folks some tuning difficulties. Unichip and eManage have both proven effective in adjusting timing and fuel. PFC is plug and play.

3. SAFC, see above. Unichip and eManage can both fix the overly lean condition that plagues I/E GTS's. They can also add some timing, boosting power. The PFC can be completely tuned for a flat, consistent fuel curve and the max safe ignition timing. You also have control over VVT, which gets more and more important as you add mods. You can get great torque gains and some additional gains up top adjusting VVT. You can also adjust the VVL point to your taste. We're currently switching NA GTS's just before 6k, and holding big cam until revs drop below 5700. Another factor is tuning- the unichip needs to be tuned by a Unichip dealer. The eManage can be tuned using a laptop and the $120 software by any tuning shop or by you at the track. The PFC can be tuned with Datalogit or Commander, just like the eManage.

4. SAFC runs ~$350. eManage package, pre-programmed, runs $369. Unichip pre-programmed runs $700. PFC pre-programmed runs $1003. If you want to program it at a dyno, the Unichip is slightly cheaper (for the unit - tuning charges will vary). I'd still recommend getting the programmed packages for the other two, as the eManage will be configured correctly (lots of tiny jumpers and switches inside the unit that need to be set for the Celica) and it'll come with Celica installation instructions. The PFC map will save you a lot on dyno time.

Yes, I'm biased on this issue, but I'm presenting the plain facts above. I'll be happy to offer further detail if anyone would like.

[liftaddict]

anybody willing to give some advice on 2zz ecu tuning ( stock 2000)? Or at least can you refer a person?

[Automaton]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
When looking for a tuning tool you should look at:

1. Unit's abilities
2. Unit's compatibility with your vehicle
3. Unit's effectiveness
4. Unit's price

1. SAFC can trim fuel, but a few have had trouble tuning the open loop area only so now everyone thinks it doesn't work. Unichip and eManage both trim ignition timing and fuel, they have pretty much the same abilities. PFC replaces the ECU and has full control over fuel, ignition timing, rev limit, idle, VVT, VVL... MUCH more powerful then the piggybacks.

2. SAFC, as mentioned above, seems to present Celica folks some tuning difficulties. Unichip and eManage have both proven effective in adjusting timing and fuel. PFC is plug and play.

3. SAFC, see above. Unichip and eManage can both fix the overly lean condition that plagues I/E GTS's. They can also add some timing, boosting power. The PFC can be completely tuned for a flat, consistent fuel curve and the max safe ignition timing. You also have control over VVT, which gets more and more important as you add mods. You can get great torque gains and some additional gains up top adjusting VVT. You can also adjust the VVL point to your taste. We're currently switching NA GTS's just before 6k, and holding big cam until revs drop below 5700. Another factor is tuning- the unichip needs to be tuned by a Unichip dealer. The eManage can be tuned using a laptop and the $120 software by any tuning shop or by you at the track. The PFC can be tuned with Datalogit or Commander, just like the eManage.

4. SAFC runs ~$350. eManage package, pre-programmed, runs $369. Unichip pre-programmed runs $700. PFC pre-programmed runs $1003. If you want to program it at a dyno, the Unichip is slightly cheaper (for the unit - tuning charges will vary). I'd still recommend getting the programmed packages for the other two, as the eManage will be configured correctly (lots of tiny jumpers and switches inside the unit that need to be set for the Celica) and it'll come with Celica installation instructions. The PFC map will save you a lot on dyno time.

Yes, I'm biased on this issue, but I'm presenting the plain facts above. I'll be happy to offer further detail if anyone would like.

But for someone with drive by wire, what is the best bet? Sounds like Unichip to me. E-Manage requires splicing wires. That makes it a hack job to switch back to stock ECU for smog tests. Unichip makes custom wiring harnesses which I assume means no splicing. With an intake and exhaust, how much extra HP do you get throughout the power band by having control over vvt? Emailing back and forth to Jack at Unichip, he thinks it is possible to control vvt as well:

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The Unichip has several outputs with which we can do whatever is desired The key is looking at how the OEM moves the cams; assuming Toyota isn't doing something unusual and the OEM ECU controls the cams then, the answer would be yes but we'd need to specifically look at a car to see. Additionally, we'd obviously need to see the car to see what the gains are.

[monkeywrench]

Yes, the wiring harness is a nice feature of the unichip. I just can't see that justifying the cost vs. an emanage with the same capabilities for $369.

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
Yes, the wiring harness is a nice feature of the unichip. I just can't see that justifying the cost vs. an emanage with the same capabilities for $369.

I can not see me paying $700 for Unichip just for the harness advantage, I am sure someone can make a harness for E-manage and sell them for less than $250 and still keep it cheaper than Unichip *hint hint monkeywrench*

[Automaton]

True the price is higher (still hundreds less than a PFC), but it sounds like Unichip might be more customizable than the EManage. It sounds like the Unichip folks are able and willing to do a custom setup to control anything you want them to control as long as it is something that the stock ECU controls. EManage sounds more like a "you get what you get" kind of thing. Also, the wiring harness is a major plus for someone like me who knows nothing about working on cars and needs something that plugs in and out like a nintendo cartridge :(

[00silverGTS6spd]

well the way I see it is there is still ZERO dynos from the uni-chip which kinda surprises me since it was such a big hype not so long ago.

I also see that lots of people now have the power fc and are making good power with more dynos popin up all the time.

So the only thing I can think is either the unichip didnt perform as well as they thought, didnt get the gains they wanted, or it just wasnt as cool on the butt dyno lol

unless I missed seeing the dynos that were promised months ago.

[Automaton]

If you want to start a donation fund, i will get it put on my car and dyno it :) I will even get them to try controlling vvt. If you even get me a job that pays a little more I will do the same :)

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by Automaton
It sounds like the Unichip folks are able and willing to do a custom setup to control anything you want them to control as long as it is something that the stock ECU controls.


They will "try to do it" but they can not make one that will get you more usable HP. Split Second was given a TRD race car by TRD 10 min down the street from them to play with to try and get the lift kick in earlier where it makes more usable power on 2ZZ, they have not been successful in getting more usable power out of it. They were successful in getting lift kicking in earlier ( as low as 3,000~3500 rpm from what I was told), but no usable power was gained from their experiment.

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by Automaton
True the price is higher (still hundreds less than a PFC), but it sounds like Unichip might be more customizable than the EManage. It sounds like the Unichip folks are able and willing to do a custom setup to control anything you want them to control as long as it is something that the stock ECU controls.

I'd be interested to hear what the Unichip can also control. The emanage, with optional harnesses, can control the injectors directly to add fuel, the MAF signal to control fuel, it can drive additional injectors, can alter ignition timing, has an anti-stall feature... and most of these functions can be tuned based on TPS or the optional MAP sensor. It's a very flexible unit.

Regarding an earlier lift engagement, do a search. We have done extensive testing and the big cam lobe does not make more power until 6000+ rpm. We've engaged it at 3000 on the dyno and tuned VVT to match but there are simply no gains to be had by bringing it on earlier than 5900 or 6000. Note: does not necessarily apply to turbo'd cars.

[Automaton]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
They will "try to do it" but they can not make one that will get you more usable HP. Split Second was given a TRD race car by TRD 10 min down the street from them to play with to try and get the lift kick in earlier where it makes more usable power on 2ZZ, they have not been successful in getting more usable power out of it. They were successful in getting lift kicking in earlier ( as low as 3,000~3500 rpm from what I was told), but no usable power was gained from their experiment.

eH? I said the VVT settings, not lift crossover point.