gains from Power FC with base maps?

[yuloose]

I was wondering what the gains would be with a Power FC w/o tuning, just plugging it in with the base maps from MWR



i dont have the cash now to pay $100 an hour to tune it, so i was wondering if i could expect decent gains still

[nyoneway]

Originally posted by yuloose
I was wondering what the gains would be with a Power FC w/o tuning, just plugging it in with the base maps from MWR



i dont have the cash now to pay $100 an hour to tune it, so i was wondering if i could expect decent gains still

Then I suggest you should hold off on the purchase, their base map may or may not give you any gains because each car and engine is different. Why not save your money now and get it when you do have the funds to tuned it. Who knows, maybe later you'll see an opportunity to pick up a used one for cheaper.

[cool2miketlu]

There is one for the GT cheaper in forsale forum ;)

[Smaay]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
There is one for the GT cheaper in forsale forum ;)

look at his sig numnuts. he has a GT-S. The base maps from monkeywrench are better than stock, so i say go head and get it...then when you are ready, fine tune on the dyno...

[Sguerra923]

Will it hurt anything in the GTS for running the base maps for awhile until it gets fine tuned to the mods in the coche?

[DYI01]

Like smaay said the base MWR maps are better then stock, i dont see a problem with running them for the time being.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by DYI01
Like smaay said the base MWR maps are better then stock, i dont see a problem with running them for the time being.

unless you end up like allmtrgts and have your engine knock like no tomorrow the second you plug in the pfc ;)

I suggest waiting til you can tune it. that way JIC something isnt right you can fix it. you should save up for at least 2 hrs of tuning.

[Sguerra923]

Do you guys know any place in S. Cali that can tune it for us? like a good reliable place that would know what there doing? cause im still lookin...

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Sguerra923
Do you guys know any place in S. Cali that can tune it for us? like a good reliable place that would know what there doing? cause im still lookin...
not in so cal. theres a place micron rice goes to in norcal thats pretty good.

XS is the only one down here if I remember right. and if you are gonna take it there you might as well insert a few sticks of dynomite into your engine bay and hope they dont go off. lol

[Smaay]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
not in so cal. theres a place micron rice goes to in norcal thats pretty good.

XS is the only one down here if I remember right. and if you are gonna take it there you might as well insert a few sticks of dynomite into your engine bay and hope they dont go off. lol

not only that but your A$$ and pocket book will feel the pain too...

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Smaay
not only that but your A$$ and pocket book will feel the pain too...

:rofl: I think they charge around $175 per hour

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by Sguerra923
Do you guys know any place in S. Cali that can tune it for us? like a good reliable place that would know what there doing? cause im still lookin...

I am going to try church automotive with my PowerFC tuning, but I have GT and a datalogit. Hopefully I can get good gains with it :)

[Sguerra923]

where is church auto located at mike?

[cool2miketlu]

http://home.earthlink.net/~spchurch/

[00silverGTS6spd]

IMO if you have the datalogit you might as well just look for a cheap place for dyno time and do it yourself. it's not that hard once you learn what values need to change.

cause if you take it to someone unfamiliar with the power fc/celica then what you're doing is paying someone to learn how to do something cause you arent willing to learn it yourself.

to me I trust my self more then some dude cause at least I know how my car is supposed to run lol

oh yeah, it does help to have 2 people when tuning so one person can be outside the car spottin the graph. if you decide to try that route there is a few people on here who can help point out how you should go about making changes to get power.

[00silverGTS6spd]

we use rage motorsports in montclaire cause they are a good group of guys and have a nice little shop! I believe their rate is about $75 per hour to use the dyno. we usually get about 15 runs in an hour.

you'll need minimum of 1-2 hours for your a/f and another 1-2 hours to work on your vvt and stuff. thats to get a decent map. you also want additional time to do partial throttle tuning.

I'd say once you get familiar with the tuning process, 6 hours total should get you a very nice very complete map.

[WHITECELICAGTS]

im thinking about getting the PFC and doing the tuning myself...what are the Do's and donts?

If there is a link to this question, let me know...thanks

[00silverGTS6spd]

hmm I may see about writing c=something up with the guys and see if we cant do some screen shots and stuff. might save me a lot of explaining in the future. lol


DO's

clean your MAF before you start
have 2 people at least (helps alot)
play with the software and data logging BEFORE you hit the dyno so that you are not clueless lol
DO NOT try to make the dyno show in your favor by icing the engine or trying to do it on a cold day.

you want to tune it hot. you should be able to do 4 runs in a row and be within 1-2 hp from run 1 and 4 that way you know how the car is gonna react hot :)

make sure you do at least 1 run in 5th and 6th gear so simulate a heavy load to watch for knock.

DON'TS

DONT forget to watch your knock count
DONT continue the run if your cel blinks cause of excessive knock.
DONT tune in 3rd gear - you can test in 3rd but dont tune from it IMO 4th is best
DONT forget that fan placement is a big deal
DONT make too many large changes to the VVT. that should be done in very small increments only.

that's a good enough start. lol

[WHITECELICAGTS]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
hmm I may see about writing c=something up with the guys and see if we cant do some screen shots and stuff. might save me a lot of explaining in the future. lol


DO's

clean your MAF before you start
have 2 people at least (helps alot)
play with the software and data logging BEFORE you hit the dyno so that you are not clueless lol
DO NOT try to make the dyno show in your favor by icing the engine or trying to do it on a cold day.

you want to tune it hot. you should be able to do 4 runs in a row and be within 1-2 hp from run 1 and 4 that way you know how the car is gonna react hot :)

make sure you do at least 1 run in 5th and 6th gear so simulate a heavy load to watch for knock.

DON'TS

DONT forget to watch your knock count
DONT continue the run if your cel blinks cause of excessive knock.
DONT tune in 3rd gear - you can test in 3rd but dont tune from it IMO 4th is best
DONT forget that fan placement is a big deal
DONT make too many large changes to the VVT. that should be done in very small increments only.

that's a good enough start. lol





I think we should get a sticky put up for the DOs and DONTs for the Power FC

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by WHITECELICAGTS
I think we should get a sticky put up for the DOs and DONTs for the Power FC

eh I'm just an amatuer. let's get some pros to make it :chuckles:

[All_MTR_GTS]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
unless you end up like allmtrgts and have your engine knock like no tomorrow the second you plug in the pfc ;)

I suggest waiting til you can tune it. that way JIC something isnt right you can fix it. you should save up for at least 2 hrs of tuning.




:sadpace: this is true :( stupid car..... well i ordered my dc header so when i get that bad boy installed and lift bolts changed im gonna get some dyno time at rage and illusive said he help me out. what a cool guy!!! :thumbup:

[kaioshin]

Originally posted by WHITECELICAGTS
I think we should get a sticky put up for the DOs and DONTs for the Power FC

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
eh I'm just an amatuer. let's get some pros to make it :chuckles:
Well, if you want to collaborate with some of the more experienced folks, possibly including Matt from MWR. I would be more than happy to post a Sticky in the forum.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by kaioshin
Well, if you want to collaborate with some of the more experienced folks, possibly including Matt from MWR. I would be more than happy to post a Sticky in the forum.

If matt wouldnt mind sharing some 411 with us little people I'm sure smaay, illusive and myself could come up with some stuff to kick in.

I will try to get some good screen shots to post up.

I'll start a post when I have something ready.

[dee5330]

went to they dyno yesterday, and just with the mwr base map....gained 12 hp. the a/f ratio was actually lean. anywhere from 14.3-15. so with a litle more tuning....there's more room for hp. pretty kewl i think....funny thing is, the max hp came from 8500 rpm.

[Maurice_69]

Originally posted by WHITECELICAGTS
I think we should get a sticky put up for the DOs and DONTs for the Power FC

It would be a very good idea.

-Olivier

wow...I did not post in about 1 year and half...and now I'm all lost in Celica stuff!! Too much supraforums.com for me...lol!

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by dee5330
went to they dyno yesterday, and just with the mwr base map....gained 12 hp. the a/f ratio was actually lean. anywhere from 14.3-15. so with a litle more tuning....there's more room for hp. pretty kewl i think....funny thing is, the max hp came from 8500 rpm.

very interesting. can you scan the dyno sheet and post it up?

[hjkim483]

hey where in chicago did you go to tune your car?

[monkeywrench]

We've done exhaustive testing with the PFC- here are some pointers:

1. Base maps- the 1zz base map is pretty good, usually a slight gain over stock. The 2zz base map is absolute crap and made 140whp with tons of knock when we tested it. Do not use that map for more than a drive to the dyno shop.

2. MWR maps- even if you plan to get your car dynotuned I'd recommend getting one of our maps as a starting point. We spent hours optimizing the VVT map and VVL changeover, which are foreign to most tuners. You can benefit by fine tuning the fuel map for your car because the Toyotas vary more than most cars. Aim for 13.8 A/F. You can also add in a little bit of ignition timing if you want that last hp and have better than 91 octane available. Both our 1zz and 2zz maps make considerable power and torque compared to the stock ECU and both are good enough that they can be run with no additional tuning.

3. 1zz and 2zz love heat. I have yet to find a Celica or MR2-S that makes more power when cold than when fully up to temp. Even with the PFC, where I can control A/F, they still like to be hot. "Certainly that doesn't include your 350whp shop car?" you say... it does.

[Smaay]

Actually when we were tuning we could make pull after pull and keep making power, so yes they like heat, however if we let the car sit for about 10 minutes and cool down, we all made more power....i gained over 10 HP

[All_MTR_GTS]

Originally posted by Smaay
Actually when we were tuning we could make pull after pull and keep making power, so yes they like heat, however if we let the car sit for about 10 minutes and cool down, we all made more power....i gained over 10 HP


HEEEEEY so there is nothing wrong with your engine making more and more power lol........ hotter it gets more power let it cool down more power hehe ;)

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by Smaay
Actually when we were tuning we could make pull after pull and keep making power, so yes they like heat, however if we let the car sit for about 10 minutes and cool down, we all made more power....i gained over 10 HP

Your intercooler may have been heat soaked.

[dee5330]

will get the pics up soon, been moving so i put my scanner in storage. and i didn't tune it in chicago. it's still untuned as of right now.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
Your intercooler may have been heat soaked.

I gained 6 on my N/A car.