?'s about PFC....sorry it's been a while

[zze86]

d@mn this site. why is this thing always signing me off? Just got done posting a nice long thread and I lost all of it!!! :bang:

anyways I apologize if this has been gone over before but it's been a while since I've been on the board and even longer since I've owned a celica, however I am still much interested the 2zzge engine. I've always that the key to this motors potential was in the ECU.

When I was still around the PFC was not offered over here in the states. With this section of the forum I assume the PFC is now available AND supported in the US market...? From what I can recall the PFC was a plug and play unit so all sensors (including that much too sensitive AFM) must stay intact? Or can you kind of pick and choose what sensors you wish to use? Has anybody tried switching it from a AFM sensor to a MAP sensor?

If I remember correctly the PFC could control the VVT portion of the engine. what kind of gains were attained by playing with this aspect of engine? I'm most specifically interested in low end torque. What about the high end? Just a suggestion if it has not been tried that there are very nice potential gains if someone took the time to play around with this.

What have people been doing as far as the cam switchover point? leaving it the same or lowering it? again from what I recall there were issues with the valves slapping the pistons when the VVL was lowered too much and the VVT tried to do it's magic. Was/Is this still an issue? If it is no longer an issue how has the cam switchover transition been effected?

There was something else but I seem to have forgotten and I think that's enough ?'s for now.

Thanks in advance and for your patience.

-Chee

[cool2miketlu]

Power FC is standalone computer that is developed for Japanese Celica/MR2. There is no U.S. version and Japan version it is all Japanese version. These units will not pass emissions because our stock ECU is OBD-II, and these Power FC is not even OBD-I. So when they plug in that scanner they will see nothing, so you have to plug your stock ECU back in pass smog then swap right back. If you are looking for huge gains with Powerfc you are in for disappointment, it is not best bang for the buck. But if you want to squeeze every ounce of power out of your celica then PowerFC is the only equipment that can do it for now.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
it is not best bang for the buck. But if you want to squeeze every ounce of power out of your celica then PowerFC is the only equipment that can do it for now.
I will have to disagree.

whether you are trying to squeeze out the most power or trying to have a much better driving experience the power FC IS currently the best bang for your buck IMO. doesnt matter if you are N/A or F/I you'll see large gains over the stock ECU. not to mention a much smoother/friendly powerband :)

The best and most beneficial mod I've put on to date has been the power fc.

[zze86]

I would have to agree with 00silverGTS seeing as the ECU is the limiting factor on this motor.

00silverGTS - what kind of gains have you seen with the PFC? Please reference my earlier post as well.

thanks again.

[00silverGTS6spd]

152 whp stock
166 AEM cai stock muffler unbolted
183 ^^ + PFC and 2 hrs tuning

thats just peak numbers. Midrange power is where the biggest improvements were. you no longer feel the lift cross over and your usable power is all over the place including down low where we need it most.

with the PFC you are limited by your imagination only. I cant think of any other mod for an N/A celica that produces these kinds of results. I'm back to stock ecu right now and I hate it.

[Kuz]

00silvergts - do you think that any apexi tuner is able to squeeze the same amount of power that you did out of the pfc? Because i know you've been monkeying around with that thing for a while now... would it be best to get a basemap from somewhere and let a tuner take it from there?

[Smaay]

Apexi power tuners have the actual power FC software...the datalogit is an aftermarket software. They should be able to ge just as good gains....

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
I will have to disagree.

Well I was saying if you are looking for huge gains it is not best bang for the buck, because that is alot of bucks to gain that usable HP and that 17 extra HP.
$900 (PowerFC) + $350 (datalogit if you can get it now) + $300 (avg 2 hour dyno tuning in CA) = $1,550.00 plus tax and/or shipping for PFC & Datalogit.
Compare to $200 for CAI to gain 14 HP.

So it is not best bang for the buck but it is the best mod to squeeze every ounce of usable HP out of your engine.

[zze86]

00silverGTS - do you have a dyno chart around here somewhere I would love to see the torque graph on your ride.

also what is the dataloggit? I thought the tuning software came with the PFC, the handheld was extra...

[00silverGTS6spd]

14 hp from a CAI would be nice but it doesnt happen that way.

the problem is you're talkin peak power. The power fc offers sooo much more then that.

buy an intake only, ok might pick up 6-10 whp over stock and you think to yourself wow this is pretty cool cant wait for exhaust.

buy an exhaust pick up a few more ponies and think to yourself wow sounds good decent power cant wait for header.

buy the header pick up a couple more ponies and think to yourself not bad at all. wish I could tune out more power I need engine management.

and then add power FC, you think to yourself holy crap I have a whole new car. this things a beast.

see the difference? lol not to mention that no matter what you do to the car in the future the power fc will always make it better.

add a turbo? no problem take off that header and intake. power fc stays on :)
add a S/C bye bye intake, power fc stays on
add nitrous np you can tune even more gain out with it. power fc once again adds HP that you wouldnt have had w/o it.

PNP is useless without engine management. wow PFC to the rescue again.


a good enginemanagement setup is by far the best mod you can buy on any car in any situation period.

[mirconrice]

agree...whatever he said, haha :)

[nyoneway]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
Well I was saying if you are looking for huge gains it is not best bang for the buck, because that is alot of bucks to gain that usable HP and that 17 extra HP.
$900 (PowerFC) + $350 (datalogit if you can get it now) + $300 (avg 2 hour dyno tuning in CA) = $1,550.00 plus tax and/or shipping for PFC & Datalogit.
Compare to $200 for CAI to gain 14 HP.

So it is not best bang for the buck but it is the best mod to squeeze every ounce of usable HP out of your engine.

CAI's 14hp peak gain is only at cam switch over. Most CAI loses power/drivability at low-midrange.

PowerFC gives power under the curve as well as changing the rev limit.

[cool2miketlu]

true but compare HP vs $$ spent. CAI is still best bang for the buck because not much money spent to gain the HP. PowerFC does do more and give more usable but that is alot of bucks to get it, also most people do not gain as much as you guys it kinda depends on what engine you got (some have wimpy ones and some have monster).
Whatever you do get PowerFC last because you only want to do tuning once, if you are going to do any power freeing mod do those first before the PowerFC.

Datalogit is an aftermarket tuning software with hardware that hooks up to PowerFC to do some tuning on PowerFC.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
true but compare HP vs $$ spent. CAI is still best bang for the buck because not much money spent to gain the HP. PowerFC does do more and give more usable but that is alot of bucks to get it, also most people do not gain as much as you guys it kinda depends on what engine you got (some have wimpy ones and some have monster).
Whatever you do get PowerFC last because you only want to do tuning once, if you are going to do any power freeing mod do those first before the PowerFC.

Datalogit is an aftermarket tuning software with hardware that hooks up to PowerFC to do some tuning on PowerFC.

Some things you cant put a $$ value too. peak power doesnt really do too much for ya since 99% of the time you arent there. I dunno bout you but I put increased driveability over a peak # gain anyday. fortunately for me I got the best of both worlds :) ask any auto X guy what they would rather have a mod that costs less and has a lil better $ to peak power ratio or a mod that costs more but gives more useable power, peak power, and changes the entire driving characteristics of the car and only downside is having a higher $ to peak HP ratio?

if you insist on ONLY counting peak hp then yeah the intake is better for the $$. but thats only because you're ignoring the real benefits of the power fc ;)

also I dunno where you are paying $150 but you're gettin :owned: it's $100 per hour for a mustang dyno (which is way better then dynojet for tuning) and $75 for dynojet. this is undiscounted everyday prices. (of course some people can get it for less)

[00silverGTS6spd]

ah yes and those dyno guys are great and very flexible as to when you can bring your car in. (we were there til 1am last time) lol

if you want to save some $$ and get on a good dyno pm me and I'll give you the name and addy.

[cool2miketlu]

Are they familiar with Datalogit now? The shop I was going to said 2 hours work (and no charge while he look over the datalogit software as well as Split Second R4 software to set everything to 0 correction(FTC1-E will be removed later)) and $150/hr with wideband O2 dyno setup. I only considered them because he is well know tuner Shawn Church, so that $150 was for peace of mind of having a guy who knows what he is doing. I think tuner is more important than anything else, he is the guy who can make all your mods worth it or kill everything. However if your guy is really good tuner and knows what he is doing then hay I need to pm ya ;)

[zze86]

no need to convince me guys :popcorn: heheheh

anyways again

00silverGTS - do you have a dyno chart around here somewhere I would love to see the torque graph on your ride. IF not what kind of torque/hp gains did you get in the midrange, like from 3500rpm to 7000rpm?

also what is the dataloggit? I thought the tuning software came with the PFC, the handheld was extra...

[cool2miketlu]

PowerFC you buy from MWR will come with preloaded map, however you can not adjust that map to suite exactly to your engine. To maximize your performance you can either bring it to an Apex-i authorized tuner, they will have all the necessary equipment to tune your PowerFC (usually cost alot and they are hard to find).
Or you can go either of the 2 ways:
1. You buy the datalogit and any tuner in the country with a wideband O2 setup dyno facility can tune your car for ya (if they are competant). Datalogit can tune 20x20 map and adjust more special stuff like VVT , fuel cutoff, and lift as well as rev limiter.
2. You can buy Commander and adjust 5X5 map (not very good) and harder to use than laptop, however it can be a great monitoring tool after tunning. (can not adjust VVT and Lift nor rev limiter or fuel cutoff)

[bagodoosh]

Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
183 ^^ + PFC and 2 hrs tuningwas this tuned by you or a shop? did you start from a previous map or base?