Turbo reality check

[Boosted2.0]

I've been noticing some disturbing trends with the members on here who have been putting on Turbos and I want to make a few things clear to keep people from heartache:

1 - Get you car tuned!!! There is no such thing as a "pretuned kit" unless it is actually tuned on your car by the installer / manufacturer - otherwise you should absolutely plan to get your kit tuned by a professional as soon as you install it. Every car is different and a turbo system is a HUGE change to make. Your can will not run like you want it to until youget it properly tuned. It may run, and in some cases liek SF's the kit will probably make a lot of power. But you should still get it tuned. Also do not settle for teh A/F up the tailpipe dyno method - have them weld a bung on just in front of the front factory O2 sensor for the wideband.

2 - You guys need to step it up with regards to maintenance. You need to keep your eyes on oil level AND QUALITY and plan on changing it MUCH more often, especially when you first install your kit. This is especially important if you are running excessively rich as you may get some fuel in your oil which can reduce its effectveness. Make no mistake, this is YOUR responsibility. Its YOUR car and once you buy it its YOUR turbo. Do the smart thing and keep a very close eye on it and take the right precautions. A few quarts of oil and a filter is a hell of a lot less expensive than a new engine *cough*controlone*cough*

3 - Plan for delays and be patient. All aftermarket performance companies are subject to shipping delays from time to time. as such be prepared for them. Still ride the company to get you your stuff, but don't let it stress you out - its gonna happen. Along the same lines you will probably experience some setbacks when you install the kit. Little things will need to be tweaked, tuned, adjusted etc. This is normal - you can't re-engineer a car without some growing pains.

4 - GET A BEATER!!!! (This is true for N/A cars as well) but the best mod you can have is another car to drive. Once you start seriously tuning a car and making some power things will start to break after a while. It is part of the cost of going fast. The experience is much less traumatic if you have somethign else to drive while you deal with it.

5 - don't get ripped off on install. Go watch the install - make sure the guys put things in teh right places and don't start cutting your pipes up "because they don't fit right" without at least trying to install them the other way around.

6 - Get more clutch than you think you will need (self explanitory)

[cmiguel32]

Amen, 550 cc injectors and a 250 lph fuel pump w/o fuel management caused my engine's rod bearings to get f'd up due to fuel in the oil. Thank god the shop cut me a break on labor to replace them. I need to get my power fc on & tuned, not to mention Staffords turbo kit put on.

[Immo]

Good post, If you don't mind I also would like to add bullet 0, whichis: First understand what a turbo does and why it does what it does. Why does it make your engine have more power. what do all the parts look like. Read and understand first.. then go turbo..

signed... a happy C2power stage 1 user (who's waiting for his new clutch)

[Boosted2.0]

Actually we really should make a Turbo 101 thread and sticky it at some point - go over how they work, what to expect in terms of performance, what is required, what to expect in terms of maintenance, etc.

[jasonwaaa]

nice post, few questions though, exactly how much less engine life should I expect from mycar after Ive shoved on a stafford kit?
How long before I change the oil? and should I buy a different viscocity level of oil?
What isthe fastest thing to break that wouldbreak on my car after I beef up the rods, pistons, and clutch?
Can I take my new turbo'd car on long road trips?

[Darkside]

1. what i wanna know is exactly WHICH parts are prone to break after putting on a turbo kit and WHY they are prone to break w/ more power/torque

2. oh yeah, and as of now, i take my car to the dealership to get the oil changed - what oil do they use and is it "good enough" for a turbo?

3. i know i'll need a higher octane gasoline every time i fill up - once the kit is put on, can i just immediately switch to the new say 91 or 93 when there is still the piss 87 still in my tank? same w/ the oil if i need better oil - can i just shove the new stuff in or do i have to do some kind of flush first?

[faultline]

Originally posted by jasonwaaa
nice post, few questions though, exactly how much less engine life should I expect from mycar after Ive shoved on a stafford kit?
How long before I change the oil? and should I buy a different viscocity level of oil?
What isthe fastest thing to break that wouldbreak on my car
after I beef up the rods, pistons, and clutch?
Can I take my new turbo'd car on long road trips?

Hi , I have over a year and a half logged in w/ sf kit. I use 10w-40 (good ol' dino oil) I change it every 3k. I let the car idle before turning off. My rule of thumb is to wait 3 minutes from the last time I boosted to shut off motor, or 3 minutes of idle if I have been on a long road trip. anyway, when yu go on a long road trip, you often cruise below 3k rpms. So the turboe is not really being used cruising 70mph. That is why you can take long road trips. I have never driven 100mph 2 hrs straight either, so I dont know how that would go , probebly ok. Yes, you can take it on long road trips, I do it all the time.

Boosted, nice post. I read a book called "Turbochargers" by Hugh Mac Innes before I turboed my car. "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell is another good one. I believe that if everyone who turboes their car would look at it as their own project, and feel responsible for everything running right, then there would be less disapointments in expectaions. Of course you should expect a kit's components to work together properly. If you expect your newly turboed car to be as if it came from the factory this way, then your expectation is misguided. I am not that mechanical, but I understand very well what is going on with my turboed motor, and because of the SF kit, I have become more mechanical. If you dont like to mess with you car, then dont mess with your car-dont turbo it.But beware, once you taste the power, you will never look back!lol

[JCelica132]

anyone have any problem with pipes blowin off under boost because the ends of the pipes aren't beaded?

[AznTwins]

Originally posted by JCelica132
anyone have any problem with pipes blowin off under boost because the ends of the pipes aren't beaded?

I hear using hair spray prevents that.

[faultline]

Originally posted by JCelica132
anyone have any problem with pipes blowin off under boost because the ends of the pipes aren't beaded?

yeah, once. It scared me to death. I turned the corner and shifted into second pulling hard......Kapoof! ...oh no!...then I saw my motors life flash befor my eyes!...but wait , my motor can still rev...hmm what happened!???.... I went home and saw that the 1st pipe blew off the compressor housing. I simply retightened the hose clamp, and now I check the pipes more often.

A buddy of mine has a new ford truck 6.0 turbo diesel.His comes off all the time from from the factory. The dealership tried to fix it twice, but it keeps coming off . finally he put on some sort of spray adhesive , he already had the t-type clamp. so far so good , it has been 2 months since his last episode.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by jasonwaaa
nice post, few questions though, exactly how much less engine life should I expect from mycar after Ive shoved on a stafford kit?
How long before I change the oil? and should I buy a different viscocity level of oil?
What is the fastest thing to break that wouldbreak on my car after I beef up the rods, pistons, and clutch?
Can I take my new turbo'd car on long road trips?

The maker of the kit doesn't matter. Basically the life of your engine is affected by a c ouple factors - 1- how hard you drive 2 -how much torque you make 3 - how well you maintain it. If you baby the car and maintain it immaculately then you could expect a relatively small change in durability. But lets face it, most people with turbos drive hard. That being the case you should expect a significant reduction in life expectancy in you bearings and rings and possibly valvetrain. Its foolish to try and ascribe a set percentage or amount to it, but it would stand to reason that if you put the engine under twice as much stress you could reasonably expect less than half as much life out of it. very aggressive maintenance can help o offset that somewhat, but not entirely.

As for what would break first, that depends on a lot of things. The tuning is especially important in this area as engines that run too rich or misfire will see problms with oxygen sensors and catalysts. Engines that run too lean and detonate would tend to see failures in ringlands, head gasket, spark plug, and valves. Cars with oil leaks in the turbo will have MAF problems and possibly lean or rich codes and conditions.

Oil changes should be done every 2500 miles or as soon as the oil becomes too dirty or contaminated. If you ever see a rise in oil level or think you smell fuel in it, change it immediatly.

If you autocross ro road race with a turbo you should change your oil before each race weekend.

I like Mobil 1 15-50 for my Alltrac, but different people like different things. I'm a big fan of pure synthetics, but changing frequently is most important.

Yes you can take your turboed car on road trips, but you should wait untill you are certain taht the tuning, plugs, etc. are all appropriate and tuned properly, and you should bring a ocuple extra quarts of oil and a gallon of water just to be safe.

Originally posted by Darkside
1. what i wanna know is exactly WHICH parts are prone to break after putting on a turbo kit and WHY they are prone to break w/ more power/torque

2. oh yeah, and as of now, i take my car to the dealership to get the oil changed - what oil do they use and is it "good enough" for a turbo?

3. i know i'll need a higher octane gasoline every time i fill up - once the kit is put on, can i just immediately switch to the new say 91 or 93 when there is still the piss 87 still in my tank? same w/ the oil if i need better oil - can i just shove the new stuff in or do i have to do some kind of flush first?

1 - Rods and bearings are usually the casualties. Head gaskets are also very common. The rods and bearings tend to fail from load outside what they were designed to support. The head gaskets tend to be more form heat or detonation.

2 - oil can change from dealer to dealer. I personally use Mobil 1 full synthetic. I also would never let anyone at a dealership work on my car, its too important to me. If you do take it to someone else, be sure to mark your filter discreetly so you can tell if it was changed and be sure to check the oil level afterwards and monitor closelt for leaks.

3 - Start running premium gas (preferably chevron) and fuel system cleaner at least 2-3 tanks before you get your turbo. Likewise do at least 1 oil change with good quality synthetic before you get it. Getting a head start on the fuel is more important than the oil.

also you should make sure your engine is in tip top condition before you turbo it, by which I mean you should flush your coolant, put in new spark plugs of the appropriate heat range for the turbo, put in fresh oil, etc.

[Darkside]

lol i've had my car since 1999 and it only has 15K miles on it so it couldn't be in too bad of a condition right now; changed oil every 3000 miles, got wiseco pistons, and crower rods - so i should be okay? ill do what you said in #3 starting today, and change out the spark plugs - what do u recommend?

also, how do you know when bearings break when you're driving? what would happen to the engine if your head gasket or bearings broke? any major damage?

[Tikked Again]

Here's my addition

- When you hear a rattling or 'pinging' under boost get off the throttle. That sound is your engines' valves bouncing around randomly because of pre-detonation. If you experience pre-detonation long enough, or it is that severe, you can destroy your engine. Resolving this issue goes along with proper tuning.

[Tikked Again]

Originally posted by Darkside
also, how do you know when bearings break when you're driving? what would happen to the engine if your head gasket or bearings broke? any major damage?

Bearings are thin, circular, pieces of soft metal that surround the area in which your crank rotates. IIRC when a bearing is spun or destroyed you may expect to hear a clacking noise because of the excess play in the crankshaft. This can also damage the crankshaft surface itself.

[Darkside]

does any place make stronger bearings?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Darkside
lol i've had my car since 1999 and it only has 15K miles on it so it couldn't be in too bad of a condition right now; changed oil every 3000 miles, got wiseco pistons, and crower rods - so i should be okay? ill do what you said in #3 starting today, and change out the spark plugs - what do u recommend?

also, how do you know when bearings break when you're driving? what would happen to the engine if your head gasket or bearings broke? any major damage?

How much boost you going to run? If just 6 PSI I reccomend Denso IK20 or IK22 irridiums. If 9-11 PSI maybe IK22s or IK24s. The bigger the number after the IK the colder the plug. They are a little on the cold side for those levels so they won't make QUITE as much power but they are very safe. Lots of folks run the NGK coppers too but I'm not familair with their heat ranges.

and yes - that sounds like a very safe setup. Although your mielage suggests you may do a lot of short trip[ driving. If thats the case then you may want to start makign a habit of taking a nice 30 minute high rpm highway cruise every couple of weels - it will help to blow out any carbon deposits that may want to start forming. You might also want to get a top engine clean done before the turbo install to be on the safe side (assuming of course that my assumption about your mileage is correct)

If the bearings start to fail theer are 2 telltales - metallic debris in your used oil (another good reason to change your own BTW - if you check your old oil every time then you can often catch some problems before they become too severe.) the other telltale is much more obvious and that is an audible knock in the engine.

The effects of a head gasket failure can be anything from poor performance to massive coolant leaks possibly resulting in hydrlock in extreme cases. Bearing failure can cause your engine to seize, and can also cause permanant irreperable block and/or head damage if a rod lets go and starts kinifing around in the crankcase.

[Darkside]

will MWR stud kits help with anything?

what Denso plugs should i get if i wanna run like 9 psi daily and 14 at the track? the IK24s?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Darkside
will MWR stud kits help with anything?

what Denso plugs should i get if i wanna run like 9 psi daily and 14 at the track? the IK24s?

Get the IK22s if you have a GTS IK24s if you have a GT

and yeah, the MWR stud kit would help prevent the head from lifting if you get detonation.

[Asha'man]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Get the IK22s if you have a GTS IK24s if you have a GT

and yeah, the MWR stud kit would help prevent the head from lifting if you get detonation.

It's the other way round, isn't it?
IK24 for GTS and IK22 for GT.

Which one's are stock on the GTS? I don't remember the number anymore. Anyway, I've stock GTS Denso Iridium Plugs now on my boosted GT and they work well.

I don't care about powerloss anymore, since my first engine was blown my Prio1 is safety and not performance.

[soceur]

Originally posted by Darkside
will MWR stud kits help with anything?



Also the MWR head studs are re-usable. The toyota stockers are not so if you use stockers, everytime you have to remove the head (HOPEFULLY NEVER) you will have to replace the studs. MWR studs have saved me twice in this manner.

[iMouseGTS]

Originally posted by soceur
Also the MWR head studs are re-usable. The toyota stockers are not so if you use stockers, everytime you have to remove the head (HOPEFULLY NEVER) you will have to replace the studs. MWR studs have saved me twice in this manner.

Which stud kit are you supposed to get? They have Mains and Cylinder head listed on MWR's site.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Asha'man
It's the other way round, isn't it?
IK24 for GTS and IK22 for GT.

Which one's are stock on the GTS? I don't remember the number anymore. Anyway, I've stock GTS Denso Iridium Plugs now on my boosted GT and they work well.

I don't care about powerloss anymore, since my first engine was blown my Prio1 is safety and not performance.

Nope - I reccomend colder plugs on the GT since its more prone to detonation.

[RADR1732]

Originally posted by iMouseGTS
Which stud kit are you supposed to get? They have Mains and Cylinder head listed on MWR's site.


The ones they are talking about to prevent the heads from lifting is the head studs.

Richard

[Asha'man]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Nope - I reccomend colder plugs on the GT since its more prone to detonation.

Why is that? The GTS has higher compression and higher cylinder temps?!

I thought it's just the other way round...the GTS is more prone to pre detonation. Am I wrong?

[F35-JSF]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
4 - GET A BEATER!!!! (This is true for N/A cars as well) but the best mod you can have is another car to drive. Once you start seriously tuning a car and making some power things will start to break after a while. It is part of the cost of going fast. The experience is much less traumatic if you have somethign else to drive while you deal with it.



:werd: A reliable beater is definately needed. I wouldn't do any serious mods with out one.

[marc]

The sad thing is, you shouldn't have to be saying this kinda stuff.

Gawd.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Asha'man
Why is that? The GTS has higher compression and higher cylinder temps?!

I thought it's just the other way round...the GTS is more prone to pre detonation. Am I wrong?

Yup - you are wrong. In principle the GTS should be more prone to it, but in reality the GT has longer rods so theres more dwell time with the piston at top dead center. This results in more detonation than the GTS gets (at least normally)

Also the GTS head has better coolant flow so the combustion chamber temps are more controlled.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by marc
The sad thing is, you shouldn't have to be saying this kinda stuff.

Gawd.

Maybe - but if you've been watching the forum over the last 6 months or so its obvious why I am saying it.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by iMouseGTS
Which stud kit are you supposed to get? They have Mains and Cylinder head listed on MWR's site.

Main studs are great, but please remembver that if you use them you have to get the main bearing journal line bored to re-true it as the stud change the clamping load on the main girdle.

[larryd]

Originally posted by marc
The sad thing is, you shouldn't have to be saying this kinda stuff.

Gawd.

Don't act like a know it all either Marc. Fact is everyone has to learn somewhere. I remember when I did my turbo upgrade on my GST back in the day and was asked what I was going to do about a fuel system upgrade I wasl ike what are you talking about?

People should generally try and become more educated about things they put on their car and understand how they work and why they work before they do such modifications.

BTW, great post Boosted.

[c2gas]

Best thread I`ve seen for a long time!!! pls keep your thread alive!!
Gas

[zerocooll21]

Boosted...Is the SF kit tuneable?? Also If I wanted to go with the Greddy E-mannage instead of SF's piggyback set up would that be possible/better?

[carboncelicagt]

Post edited by me... im sorry, keeping to topic, my bad, good luck on turbos

[zerocooll21]

How long from when you ordered your C2 kit did it take to ship?? and how much was it??

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by zerocooll21
Boosted...Is the SF kit tuneable?? Also If I wanted to go with the Greddy E-mannage instead of SF's piggyback set up would that be possible/better?

Yep the SF kit is tuneable - I was tuning 2 cars with SF's SS piggybacks and SF turbo kits this weekend in fact. Greddy would not be any better than the SS unit. Power FC would and you can get the tuner kit for less $$ if you want to go that route.

Really any turbo kit is tuneable - you just have to pick your tuning hardware and fuel system options carefully so you wind up with a system that works well together. The SF system seems to work very well with the SS piggyback. EVERYTHING works well with the Power FC if you have the correct injectors.

as for C2's kit - I'm sure its fine, but I can't see where its any better than SFs. For that matter XS's current kit is decent too, just very overpriced.

[JCelica132]

i hear there are rattling of the pipes on the SF kit. Are their anyway we can reduce the rattle? Could we make extra supports at certain points on the pipes to connect it to the chasis/etc?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by carboncelicagt
Its not about More HP, its about where the HP is placed.. its no use if its too late.

what are you talking about?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by JCelica132
i hear there are rattling of the pipes on the SF kit. Are their anyway we can reduce the rattle? Could we make extra supports at certain points on the pipes to connect it to the chasis/etc?

Of course - you can make brackets for anything. The DA sports kit on RichGT's old car rips the hose off the throttle body when you acclerate hard, but that can and will be fixed too.

Remember - its your car - once you own the kit (any kit) its yours to change or improve upon as you see fit.

[JCelica132]

go to this thread, http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143752 and read where control one says his pipes and alfy1's pipes rattled.....which is why they were getting scraped up.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by JCelica132
go to this thread, http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143752 and read where control one says his pipes and alfy1's pipes rattled.....which is why they were getting scraped up.

I know - but thats my point - once you get it its YOURS - if you don't want it scraping you should get a bracket made. Do what it takes to get it done right so you are happy with it. Most people just bolt it on and leave it be which is just not the best way to do things.

[JCelica132]

are there any points on the different pipes that you think would be best to make a bracket for?

[CONTROL ONE]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Remember - its your car - once you own the kit (any kit) its yours to change or improve upon as you see fit.

very good words of advise.

[Alfy1]

Originally posted by JCelica132
go to this thread, http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143752 and read where control one says his pipes and alfy1's pipes rattled.....which is why they were getting scraped up.

My only pipe that rattles is my intake pipe. The pipe that came from behind and over the engine is the only one that has a a scratch on it. It was rubbing agianst the valve cover. I place the plastic cover back on and it doesnt scrape up the pipe anymore.
My intake didnt rattle at first becuase it was limp and the filter rested on top of the small fuse box. It didnt rub agianst anything either. I got stupid and thought that I would get better airflow if I raised it a little bit. I hooked up a zip tie to the wrong place (the TB). That made it rattle and the filter scraped the finish on my TB.

Cliff notes- If you dont want your pipes to rattle they wont. Just put a little piece of sticky foam if you think the pipes will rub. The rattle can easily be fixed with a correct zip tie...All most all of my pipe's scratches were caused by my installation.
http://www.tomcatontheprowl.com/car/images/turbo/turbo16.jpg

I currently have my intake held up with miss placed wire and zip tie. It looks cheap and I grew so envious of Controlone's bracket....:evil:
http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/14350bracket.JPG

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by JCelica132
are there any points on the different pipes that you think would be best to make a bracket for?

Yes - I think mounting the intake pipe to the intake manifold with a bracket with a dense rubber liner would be ideal. The turbocharger moves with the engine so the intake pipe should too - it will reduce the burden on the couplers. I also think a peice of dense self adhesive rubber would be good over by the front of the valve cover on the pass side. Other than that the kit being setup as it is actually pretty good - it allows the engine to have as much flex as it needs without stressing the pipes overly much.

[RelentlessRacer23]

man i hope my pipes don' t rattle, finally the installation is complete, i pick up my car tommorrow. i will post up pixes of my sf kit.

[soceur]

edited to keep integrity of thread.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by soceur
I can think of one thing real quick....piping! Way too much for my taste! If its not needed its just more room for air to travel and more weight due to excess piping. Also some of the little important parts like the pieces that connect the I/C and the piping together could use a upgrade, instead of the rubber elbows the SF kit seems to utilize. Im not bashing SF's kit just pointing out dislikes of mine.

SF doesn't use rubber for elbows only for straight couplers. And its not flashy but its every bit as good as the more popular silicone couplers. Now please explain how the piping is in any way excessive? C2 needs to get the air from the back of the engine to the FMIC and back to the throttle body again - about the same thing just different routing. You may not like the SF routing, but the bends are natural and nothing needs to be relocated or rerouted. The throttle response is excellent as well, so I can't see any problem with it. Oviously you love your C2 kit which is great - I'm sure its very nice - but you not liking the asthetics of the SF kit does nothing to diminish its performance and is pretty paltry grounds for saying it makes it inferior. As I said before - the SF kit, the DA kit, the XS kit - all are decent in their own way. The key elements are all there and they just need some invcestment in tuning by the enduser to maximize their potential. All are way better than starting from scratch. The C2 kit is probably like that too, but I havent seen one so its hard to say.

Anyways if you guys need to compare the kits that badly just start another thread. (its what I always do) I didn't mention any brand untill asked - I'm trying to keep this neutral and restricted to general information about turbocharging a car.

[Alfy1]

The sf kit does not have rubber elbows...:confused:
I think you are talking about a different kit...?

EDIT: Booseted beat me to it.

[00 scrub]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but this would be a VERY sueful tool to check the engine and turbos health:
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112966

This way you won't have to guess if your bearings are oging bad, or if you have fuel dilution and if the oil you are using is giving enough protection.

An oil cooler would be a very good preventative mod. Cycling hot oil through the engien isn't exactly the best for bearings, the oil pump, and rings.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by 00 scrub
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but this would be a VERY sueful tool to check the engine and turbos health:
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112966

This way you won't have to guess if your bearings are oging bad, or if you have fuel dilution and if the oil you are using is giving enough protection.

An oil cooler would be a very good preventative mod. Cycling hot oil through the engien isn't exactly the best for bearings, the oil pump, and rings.

excellent point! Also a larger pan would be a great way to increase the oil capacity of the lubrication system and help keep the oil cooler and longer lasting.

[Asha'man]

Hey Boosted,

thx for the nice explanation. Didn't know that the bigger bore and smaller stroke make that much difference in cylinder temps. The extra cooling mod for the cylinder walls with oilspray is nice on the GTS. But why has the GTS colder Spark Plugs stock than the GT?

Anyway: Great Post! Keep up the good informational work!

I would suggest everyone who's going F/I to have at least: Good quality and reliable Oil Temp, Oil Press and EGT gauges installed.

[c2gas]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0

Anyways if you guys need to compare the kits that badly just start another thread. (its what I always do) I didn't mention any brand untill asked - I'm trying to keep this neutral and restricted to general information about turbocharging a car.

Agree!!! this was started neutral and Boosted was talking about the basics of a F/I kits. All are mainly the same, if we look on the working method. Using a turbokit is one thing to understand beside choosing which you like the most. Lets keep i for the USE part.
Gas

Question to Boosted:
We were using the MAF on the intake side at the begining, but then moved it next to the throttle body in the pressure side. We did it cos the response of the car was much nicer. But we have some complains about locate it back, cos of possible oil dirt on the MAF. Im not willing to do it cos of our expirience, and we never had problems with it. Any suggestion on that?

[carboncelicagt]

[post edited, keeping it to topic.

[Asha'man]

@LarryD: Could you please keep this post clean and make it sticky?

Even most of my posts can be deleted. Only OnTopic should be left here, cause this can get a very nice info thread for everyone who plans to go f/i.

I tried to delete my posts, but only get "permission denied". Strange, since I'm logged on.

[carboncelicagt]

yeah yeah true, good idea, i was just explaining my earlier statement. Ill try to delete. Im sorry i was off topic

2 things i have to do that i didnt plan on doing that you need to plan for when buying a turbo:

New plugs
New clutch

keep that in mind for extra costs, and if anyone else has any other suggestions

[Smaay]

Question to Boosted:
We were using the MAF on the intake side at the begining, but then moved it next to the throttle body in the pressure side. We did it cos the response of the car was much nicer. But we have some complains about locate it back, cos of possible oil dirt on the MAF. Im not willing to do it cos of our expirience, and we never had problems with it. Any suggestion on that?

The MAF needs to be on the pressure side for all tuning purposes...you will not get a true reading if you are on the intake side...

[Asha'man]

@carboncelicagt: My post was not meant against yours. :) It was just a general hint.

@smaay: As far as it reads the Air Mass the numbers should be the same. Almost every Stock Turbo cars do have the MAF mounted on the intake side.
But both is possible and both should work.
Most people say intake side is safer/better. Some say the pressure side is better.
Actually...I don't know. :)

[cool2miketlu]

MAF positions:
Intake side: ok if you have recirculating BOV, and only if the air is recirculated back to areas after the MAF sensor so it is still reading correct amount of air in your turbo system.
If you have atmosphere venting BOV the MAF is reading more air than what your engine receives because its numbers include air vented out of BOV, therefore your engine going to run very rich everytime you shift.
Pressure side: ok for recirculating BOV or atmosphere venting BOV, because it does not read the amount of air until it is about to go into the engine.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by c2gas
Agree!!! this was started neutral and Boosted was talking about the basics of a F/I kits. All are mainly the same, if we look on the working method. Using a turbokit is one thing to understand beside choosing which you like the most. Lets keep i for the USE part.
Gas

Question to Boosted:
We were using the MAF on the intake side at the begining, but then moved it next to the throttle body in the pressure side. We did it cos the response of the car was much nicer. But we have some complains about locate it back, cos of possible oil dirt on the MAF. Im not willing to do it cos of our expirience, and we never had problems with it. Any suggestion on that?

I would say leave it where it is and just tell people to clean it regularly. If you move it back to the intake side you also have to build a recirc system for the BoV. They get dirty in the intake regardless. One alternative would be to buy a MAP pressure converter from SS (They supposedly sell a unit that will convert a MAP and RPM signal to a MAF signal) - that would really be ideal if you can get it to work. Been thinking about picking one up for a project we're working on with 00SilverGTS's car.

[Nu Concept]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
The DA sports kit on RichGT's old car rips the hose off the throttle body when you acclerate hard, but that can and will be fixed too.


:wtc:

Just by reading your first post I am considering taking off the turbo and selling it. I don't think I can deal with Engine problems since I sleep in my vehicle at night.

[carboncelicagt]

Originally posted by Nu Concept
:wtc:

Just by reading your first post I am considering taking off the turbo and selling it. I don't think I can deal with Engine problems
since sleep in my vehicle at night.

Have you had that many problems??

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by carboncelicagt
Have you had that many problems??

He has Rich GT's old car

[DopeCelicaGT]

Originally posted by Nu Concept
:wtc:

Just by reading your first post I am considering taking off the turbo and selling it. I don't think I can deal with Engine problems
since sleep in my vehicle at night.

You sleep in your car?

[Nu Concept]

Originally posted by carboncelicagt
Have you had that many problems??
I didnt say that b/c of the problems I have right now. I said that b/c I am scared of the problems I may have in the future. I don't want to be like the guy down the street who has a 1970 Hemi Charger and spends his Sunday's replacing bad parts off of his car.