technical idea for N/A performance

[ZeroGTS]

okay, why is it that those ls/vtec motors are so fast?
ive been thinking.
what EXACTLY makes the cams on our cars more "aggressive"
we can create cams that are SLIGHTLY more aggressive set to make more power around 5k rpm and overcome that big BLAH phase right before lift.
13's BAH NO PROBLEM!
and thats just with the low end portion. on the VVTLi portion, we could have a much more aggressive setup, but we'd need dual valve springs and retainers (Titanium)

i dunno what compression Civic Type R pistons are, but we coudl use some of the same force, along with some better flowing charachteristics.

after that all we need is a good all motor ECU program to stuff in there...are there any programmable ECU replacements availiable in any way?
what are JDM cams and pistons and heads and rods and valve springs like "? any different

this is all for the 2zzgfe but would and 1zz parts fit on...ANY? any benefit of frankensteining the two motors together.
just curious, thanks for whatever help you can give.

[Returned-M Spec]

Here's my view on tuning the 2ZZ-Ge

1/ I'd rather wait for the TRD header, valves and camshafts to be released from Japan.

i)Has had sufficient R&D time
ii)Proven histroy of quality

I'll admit its pricey, but I'd pay for it, just from the reliability & build quality side of things.

Been reading an article about a local production racing class Celica, had problems with its valves. ie Not strong enough to handle consistent high RPM work in track racing conditions. (only mods allowed: intake, exhaust, ECU, roll cage, brakes and tyres) Note using stock 15inch rims only.

Honda engines have the same problem, good emaple is late 80's early 90's NA 1.6 litre Japanese spec CRX's. Valves were the first thing to go when driven aggressively.

I'd get stronger valves first before starting any other internals on the 2zz-Ge. Good insurance policy. ($35-$40US+ per valve -custom)

2/ With 11.5 CR I dont want to mess with reground cams. ie they make the cams more fragile and weaker when they get reprofiled.
I'd rather pay more for a "new" set than sending in my stock ones to a cam shop to have the duration changed on intake and exhaust side. Also if you upped the CR the plan on using a diet of octance booster and a mix of race fuel when you fill up.

3/ I'd personally would'nt bother with port and polsihing the block for better breathing. Low return in Hp for dollars spent compared if you spent it on other mods.

4/For those using Nitrous please consider this response from NOS tech department (nos@support.holley.com) via email when I was considering a NOS setup:

We currently do not have a kit for your Toyota. The 1998 and up models use a return-less style fuel system. We are working on the electronics requiredto make a kit work. We should have some information in the next few months.

Thanks, NOS tech dept.


Sorry about being a bit long. Been off the net for 6 months and I've missed this place.

Jason

[Unity112]

13's n/a Celica? Honestly, that is no problem. We're damn near 13's with just an intake and exhaust already.

There are no benefits from moving the range where we hit second cam. Or none that I can percieve. That seems to be the perfect spot where the little cam stops making power and the bigger cam should begin. Instead why not concentrate on flattening out the torque curve and extending the rev range?

Internals are a given. Bigger lift cams (well maybe just intake actually, exhaust cams don't need to be overly huge) will give the car nice numbers. Maybe oversize the valves, (not totally necessary). Resleeve with bigger bores, fitted with the right size piston. Port the manifold. Returned-M Spec, your engine will thank you when it is breathing better and that few extra hp is still extra hp. Header, Exhaust, Run a test pipe. You'll be thirteens no problem and getting damn near twelves easy. There is plenty more you can do beyond that as well.

ECU again is not totally necessary (but then again we also can't mess with it,) but you could do quite a bit with a safc. But there are a couple, apexi power fc, and the powerchips one.

LS/Vtecs are only fast when given to competent tuners. I've seen them range from 160 hp to 230. A lot of time gets put into making those motors competent.

The JDM (Toyota parts I'm assuming) are the same.

Returned-M Spec:

1/ I'd rather wait for the TRD header, valves and camshafts to be released from Japan.

i)Has had sufficient R&D time
ii)Proven histroy of quality

I'll admit its pricey, but I'd pay for it, just from the reliability & build quality side of things.


These products won't be out for a while. David Draper hasn't even recieved confirmation of those products yet. But they should be pretty nice.


Been reading an article about a local production racing class Celica, had problems with its valves. ie Not strong enough to handle consistent high RPM work in track racing conditions. (only mods allowed: intake, exhaust, ECU, roll cage, brakes and tyres) Note using stock 15inch rims only.


Can you post this article? I'm interested.


i dunno what compression Civic Type R pistons are, but we coudl use some of the same force, along with some better flowing charachteristics.


Oh and for clarification, the CTR pistons are 11.5:1.

[Returned-M Spec]

Unity112

Out of curosity (sp?) did the powerchips piggy back computer get sent out to the US eventually? I'fve been off the net for the last 6 months.

Make any power gains on a dyno?

Goto www.toysport.com They have a 1800 2ZZ-Ge TRD spec rated at 230hp for sale at arround $6000. These parts are floating arround but are not for public consumption just yet. I can live with that for now. Gives me a chance to blow some money on a sound system while I'm waiting for the engine stuff.

The magazine I mentioned was Fast Fours OCT 2001 edtion, Australian Publication.
magazine website at www.fastfours.com.au
"We broke a few inlet valves in Queensland. Toyota's since fixed
them and fitted stronger ones."

Driver:David Ratcliff
for GTP series details: www.procar.com.au

http://au.photos.yahoo.com/bc/m_spec_trd/lst?.dir=/My+Photos&.view=t

Checkout the final dnyo run of when I had the Power FC installed, have a good look at the A/F ratio curve. The car was running very rich. WHen the cams get released my chosen tuner, with have 400 possible camshaft timing/rpm and load adjustment points do to the Power FC. I think ecu aspect of getting the car to run right is extremely important.

The 2ZZ-Ge is only 1.8 litres in capacity, its desgined to be reved. Its not that exciting to drive at low rpm's everyday. But when reved and driven hard over 4000rpm's at least, it starts to get into its "angry zone" and becomes exciting. I believe personally aftermarket cams will offer higher power levels through greater peak Hp no's which seems to be the engine's strength.

Jason

[t2000gts]

dude where's your fuel cutoff on that thing? that's 4th gear right?

did you move rev limiter up to 8500 with the Power FC? any problems?

[t2000gts]

ah wait, nm, that's in KPH not MPH :D

you dynoed in 3rd?

[XskoopX]

For the Kazuma 230 HP Internals from Toysport, they'are not getting that anytime soon. They ordered it already, but it hasn't came in yet. I called TONS of times asking for that. But it's being delayed for a while I guess. Plus, there suppose to take that portion of that list on their website OFF until they have the parts with them, but they didn't update that part lately.

[Returned-M Spec]

t2000gts

Yes that was on 3rd, gearing is not a problem when using a Dyno Dynamics Dynameter (standard type of dyn o used in Australia) compared to the more common Dynojet used in the US.

Power is in Kilowatts 1kw = 1.34Hp
General Pwer loss to the wheels is 25-30% with this type of dyno.

No problems so far with 8500rpm cut out point, going strong for six onmths plus.

Jason