PFC w/o datalogit, how useful?

[00 scrub]

Since the Datalogit is on backorder would it make sense to order a PFC now? I wouldn't be able to tune the ECU (properly) or log data without it. What other alternatives are there that would work? I'm thinking of getting the long tube TRD header and am afraid of running lean without any sort of A/F managment.

[kaioshin]

You could get the FC Commander if you can get your hands on one. It doesn't offer the same level of tuning as the DLI, but it will let you tune the PFC. Of course it costs the same as the DLI, so it's up to you if you want to spend the money on it.

[DYI01]

Ahhh...so your the dude who went to look at that TRD header :) Well on my car with the MWR base maps it ran really rich in the low 12's and dipped into the 11's too. But others have had the opposite with their cars running lean. what I would do is as soon as you get the PFC go to a dyno and get baseline pulls and see where your a/f's are sitting at. Personally I would wait for the the datalogit to come off backorder, its awesome 100000x better then a commander.

[00 scrub]

I haven't got or ordered the PFC yet. I'm hoping that the header will work on the stock ECU as spending another 1000 dollars isn't the best idea for me. I know I can use the commander, but it seems kind of half assed to me. I would really prefer the Datalogit. How about the E-manage? Would it work as a stop gap maesure?

[mirconrice]

did you dyno your car yet? If you haven't, you should think about doing it before putting on that header so that way you will know how much power you gain. Just a thought...what other mods do you have?

[cool2miketlu]

Dude I may have my car tunned by Boosted 2.0
I have datalogit and commander...
If you are getting yours tunned at same time I tune mine by Boosted 2.0 you can borrow my datalogit for small fee of $25 :gap: Need to make up some cost of tuning this car if its cheaper to tune I would let you borrow it for free.

[00 scrub]

I'm going to do a dyno, but first I have to get a midpipe fabbed up, figure out the logistics of replicating it, figure out if I need ECU stuff, oh and school starts in two weeks, realy bad timing huh.

Mike: thanks for the offer, if I ever get enoug h$ for the PFC I'll take you up on it.

[DYI01]

So im guessing you bought the TRD header? Can you do me a REALLY big favor and give me the lengths of all the header pipe and they diameters? Im building a header right now and that would be a HUGE help. Thanks

[dee5330]

PFC Commander isn't that bad at all. It does it's job. I was looking at the datalogit pictures, and it's not that different from the commander. The only thing I see different is the knock threshold.

[00 scrub]

DYI01: I will see if I can get you the measurments, but I am kind of busy.
Can I log data with the Commander? Do I get as accurate tuning as well?

[DYI01]

Thanks, if you can get me some measurements that would be awesome. You cant do any logging with the commander. The most you can do is monitor.

[cmiguel32]

I was wondering the same thing..
I have the commander, and instead of waiting for a datalogit for who knows how long i was wondering if its possible to tune my car so it doesn't run so damn rich with the commander. At least until i can make a trip up to MI to monkeywrench racing.

[cool2miketlu]

Commander adjust map at 5X5 but datalogit adjusts at 20X20.
So right there it is a big difference if you want to squeeze every ounce of power out of the car, ontop of that you can adjust lift, rev limiter, fuel cutoff. Yes there is alot of difference in datalogit and commander. I got both pieces because it is a biatch to turn on the PC for the datalogit just to monitor, so I can just use the commander to monitor the engine's health.

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by cmiguel32
I was wondering the same thing..
I have the commander, and instead of waiting for a datalogit for who knows how long i was wondering if its possible to tune my car so it doesn't run so damn rich with the commander. At least until i can make a trip up to MI to monkeywrench racing.

Yes you an use commander to change the A:F ratio to where it is not as rich.

[Torqued]

I was thinking that instead of waiting for the Datalogit software to arrive, I could use a base MWR map with the commander, tweak the ignition timing and A/F ratios and get damn close to optimum.

I was wondering if the Commander allowed you to store various maps, or if it just comes with a base map that you tweak.

[cool2miketlu]

Datalogit is not just software... If you look at MWR website it shows you the hardware that comes with it. No the commander will never be able to adjust as well as the datalogit, MWR uses datalogit adjusting it to 20x20 map and you are trying to use something that can only do 5X5 map and try to make an improvement? Highly doubtful unless that map does not run well on your car and you really need this adjustment to get it running.

[dee5330]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
Datalogit is not just software... If you look at MWR website it shows you the hardware that comes with it. No the commander will never be able to adjust as well as the datalogit, MWR uses datalogit adjusting it to 20x20 map and you are trying to use 5X5 map and try to make an improvement? Highly doubtful unless that map does not run well on your car and you really need this adjustment to get it running.

5x5? are u sure about that? my pfc commander has the 20x20 maps.

[cool2miketlu]

Sorry I ment to say Commander can only do 5X5 adjustment, PowerFC is 20X20, but because you are using Commander to do adjustments you are changing 20X20 in a 5X5 blocks. PowerFC has 20X20 but you have to have Apexi software OR datalogit to tune 20X20 quickly, using Commander takes way too long for simple adjustments in 20x20 block.

[QTRMLR_1]

what??? That doesn't make sense to me at all. The Commander is put out by Apexi and the Datalogit is made by some New Zealanders having fun. Why would Apexi have a 20x20 map on the PFC while you can only access 5x5? Are you sure you have BOTH the Commander and the Datalogit kit? Maybe you don't have command of your Commander yet? :p just wondering...

OK, I just copied the following from Apexi's website:

On the PFC Commander:
Setting Mode allows full access to the 20x20 ignition timing and fuel correction maps. The user can adjust any portion of this map in 5x5 sections.

[QTRMLR_1]

Originally posted by Torqued

I was wondering if the Commander allowed you to store various maps, or if it just comes with a base map that you tweak.

I don't believe any maps are stored on the Commander. The Commander accesses the map on the PFC.
So you cannot switch between different maps with the Commander. You need to have the Datalogit kit to switch between different maps. I believe the Datalogit software can manipulate the map stored on the PFC in real time. When you want a different map on the PFC, just tell the software to upload it from the laptop's hard drive to the PFC.

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by QTRMLR_1
I don't believe any maps are stored on the Commander. The Commander accesses the map on the PFC.
So you cannot switch between different maps with the Commander. You need to have the Datalogit kit to switch between different maps. I believe the Datalogit software can manipulate the map stored on the PFC in real time. When you want a different map on the PFC, just tell the software to upload it from the laptop's hard drive to the PFC.

the car needs to be off with the key in the on position to write to the pfc. I'm not sure if thats the only way but thats the way we do it.

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by QTRMLR_1
On the PFC Commander:
Setting Mode allows full access to the 20x20 ignition timing and fuel correction maps. The user can adjust any portion of this map in 5x5 sections.

You are pretty much using blocks of 5X5 map to do adjustments, to do the next block you have to move over which is very inconvenient. Adjustments sucks on the commander as well.... Imagine this you want to change a whole block of numbers, instead of highlight the block and punch in a number you have to go into every block and push up and down arrow to change them... Takes a long time to do just 1 adjustment so its gonna take a long time to tune, and these tuning sessions is very expensive.
I doubt that you have a locked PowerFC, meaning pretunned and locked so no adjustment can be made, if you do then you need datalogit to unlock it before you can do any tuning then lock it to keep people from messing with your PowerFC. Locked PowerFC will not allow you to do any adjustments at all, this feature is to protect noob tuners from messing with the map and blow engine up.

BTW my PowerFC and commander is not even plugged in right now... Do not have time to install these and tune them yet, but it will be done soon.
Using Commander to tune it can be done, but it will take a very long time to tune which means more money in tuners pocket for time wasted than actual tuning.
And yes it is normal for adjustment made being written in with engine off with key in the on position in ignition :)

[Torqued]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
You are pretty much using blocks of 5X5 map to do adjustments, to do the next block you have to move over which is very inconvenient. Adjustments sucks on the commander as well.... Imagine this you want to change a whole block of numbers, instead of highlight the block and punch in a number you have to go into every block and push up and down arrow to change them... Takes a long time to do just 1 adjustment so its gonna take a long time to tune, and these tuning sessions is very expensive.
I doubt that you have a locked PowerFC, meaning pretunned and locked so no adjustment can be made, if you do then you need datalogit to unlock it before you can do any tuning then lock it to keep people from messing with your PowerFC. Locked PowerFC will not allow you to do any adjustments at all, this feature is to protect noob tuners from messing with the map and blow engine up.

BTW my PowerFC and commander is not even plugged in right now... Do not have time to install these and tune them yet, but it will be done soon.
Using Commander to tune it can be done, but it will take a very long time to tune which means more money in tuners pocket for time wasted than actual tuning.
And yes it is normal for adjustment made being written in with engine off with key in the on position in ignition :)

I have not seen what dynoshop tuners use, but it seems to me that to save tuning time they would need to have the Datalogit software or something equivalent that Apexi provides.

[cool2miketlu]

Problem is there are too many management system out there, not that many PowerFC's around for them to make the investment of $350 for a datalogit worth while.
You the user will have to provide the equipment to make the tuning go smoothly. Also the datalogit software is very simple to use, a competant tuner would be able to start tuning after about 10 minutes playing with the software.

[cmiguel32]

Just got my car tuned with the commander, it didn't do too bad a job, at 10 psi I ran 223 hp & 208 ft lbs torque. Only one hour of dyno tuning tho, and it wasn't really aggresively tuned at all if i remember correctly my a/f was about 11-12.1 , i still have to scan the dyno sheet so i can post it on here. I ran one pull at 12 psi, but blew off one of the pipes so i turned the boost back down. At least there's no more black smoke :D

Keep in mind my motor has a lower compression ratio*

[cool2miketlu]

Just wondering... Can the commander play with timing and stuff?
Because boosted car needs that done as well...

[cmiguel32]

Yeah timing can be adjusted & so can the vvti.

[silvercelica2000]

Originally posted by cool2miketlu
Commander adjust map at 5X5 but datalogit adjusts at 20X20.
So right there it is a big difference if you want to squeeze every ounce of power out of the car, ontop of that you can adjust lift, rev limiter, fuel cutoff. Yes there is alot of difference in datalogit and commander. I got both pieces because it is a biatch to turn on the PC for the datalogit just to monitor, so I can just use the commander to monitor the engine's health.

My version of Commander can adjust the Lift Lo and Lift Hi and REV limit!

[Oli]

Originally posted by silvercelica2000
My version of Commander can adjust the Lift Lo and Lift Hi and REV limit!

And mine.

[Seven-Of-Nine]

Has anyone else sent paypall for a Datalogit from NewZealand and have not had the device arrive. Sent them various emails and no reply. Before sending paypall I had a email from Glen saying that the backorder was met and that the Datalogit were being shipped........ Still waiting.

[Smaay]

Originally posted by silvercelica2000
My version of Commander can adjust the Lift Lo and Lift Hi and REV limit!

Originally posted by Oli
And mine.

they all can

[cool2miketlu]

my mistake about the lift adjustment part, but the rev limit & fuel cutoff I believe datalogit is needed to adjust those.

[Oli]

the commander can do the rev limit as well

[cool2miketlu]

hmmmm I guess the advantage is the redline adjustments :chuckles:

[cool2miketlu]

actually there are more like store maps in the computer where you can change map with a touch of a button :) But then I have not had time to play with my unit so gotta wait until I get my car back before I know what it can do :)

[Seven-Of-Nine]

Just had the Datalogit arrive today. The backorder was cleared Monday and shipped out same day

[QTRMLR_1]

Originally posted by Seven-Of-Nine
Just had the Datalogit arrive today. The backorder was cleared Monday and shipped out same day

where did you order it from?

[Oli]

Originally posted by QTRMLR_1
where did you order it from?

The datalogit website.

Just search for Datalogit on google. $399 shipped with full insurance.

[Seven-Of-Nine]

Heres the link for the Datalogit order.
Unfortunatly they are very slow at replying to emails but will eventually deliver the goods.

http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz/buynow.htm

[Jesse IL]

From what I can figure, the reason he has one and not us is that since he direct ordered, he got his sent air, hence it arriving in 3-4 days. My guess is that all the US product might be shipped sea, which takes a few weeks. Then it would most likely go to Rotary Performance, the distributor, then to MWR, then to us.