still not decided...winter project.

[Liqquid]

Well, I've been debating for monthes on what way to go with my gts....

Bottom line is speed... I'm not really into street racing (one offense would get me fired from my job) I'm interested in the drag strip, most of you already know that.

So far from what I have seen, turbo gt-s's have not been much faster, if at all, than nitrous setups at the 1/4 mile. It seems that without any low comp. pistons or engine build... the nitrous can propel a stock internal gts just as fast as a turbo can.

Of course, once the engine is built with the right compression and sleeves and what not, the turbo can produce more power. But of course, if you spend the money to build the engine that way, you could also just build it and run alot more nitrous...

things like head work, high flow exhaust will help both, so let's not factor that in.

does anyone have a realistic idea of just how much boost can be run on a sleeved/built 2zz?
does anyone have an idea of just how big of a n2o shot can be run on a built 2zz?

I'm having a hard time deciding on what way to go... if I try to go turbo, I will have to spend quite a bit to get the turbo setup I would want to run, manifold, fmic, etc... and then build the motor because without that, the car probably won't be much if any faster than it is now at the track

If I want to stay nitrous... I can build the motor... then just plumb some direct port ... maybe a second fuel pump too.

Just how much power do you guys think we can get out of a built 2zz with a turbo.... I know if there were cams out it would be differant, but just say as it sits now, there are no turbo cams, and the motor seems to respond just as well to n2o as it does turbocharging with the stock cams.

besides of course, "the power is there all the time with a turbo"
which do you think is the key to getting the gt-s fast?

[Boosted2.0]

Why not do both - call Stafford - they have a new nitrous kit in development for F/I applications that runs propane as a standalone fuel source - its what they have on that 12 second MRS.

As for how much boost you could run, with studs, some very cold plugs, alcohol injection, and a built and ballanced bottom end you could probably run into the 20 PSI range with like a GT30R. The nice thing about nitous is you can use it to force spool a way bigger turbo than would otherwise be practical.

[mrtomcat]

I'm going to go both ways.

One reason is, with the new new piston you'll lower compression which will be bad on everyday driving and will only come in handy once you spray, with a turbo you can compensate and still spray when needed.

From what I hear the challenge is the transmission above 300 whp.
Once my turbo is dialed in correctly I'll add the nitrous back simply also because I looooooooooove the feeling.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by mrtomcat
I'm going to go both ways.

:AF: :ugh:



:chuckles:

[Liqquid]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Why not do both - call Stafford - they have a new nitrous kit in development for F/I applications that runs propane as a standalone fuel source - its what they have on that 12 second MRS.

As for how much boost you could run, with studs, some very cold plugs, alcohol injection, and a built and ballanced bottom end you could probably run into the 20 PSI range with like a GT30R. The nice thing about nitous is you can use it to force spool a way bigger turbo than would otherwise be practical.

agreed... but 20 pounds, huh? we're running that on the stock internals of a 4g63 mitsu. Is it the aluminum block that will cause me trouble? I'm still wondering... I have 2 examples of 4 cylinder turbo engines that can way exceed that boost level, the 4g63, and the ford 2.3t, the ford motor people are running 400+ to the wheels on stock internals (I guess that's a bad example, they are forged piston/rod, high nickel block/crank stock, but still, its a sohc!)

see there are other options to getting it crazy fast, but swapping over to a differant engine/tranny makes my pfc a waste of 1000 bucks. Trust me, if the thing was paid off it would already be insane... I still got a couple years left lol.

20 psi + nitrous... + co2 intercooler and piping coolers.

11 seconds? I'd :puke: if it wasn't


Originally posted by mrtomcat
I'm going to go both ways.



:eek:

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Liqquid
agreed... but 20 pounds, huh? we're running that on the stock internals of a 4g63 mitsu. Is it the aluminum block that will cause me trouble? I'm still wondering... I have 2 examples of 4 cylinder turbo engines that can way exceed that boost level, the 4g63, and the ford 2.3t, the ford motor people are running 400+ to the wheels on stock internals (I guess that's a bad example, they are forged piston/rod, high nickel block/crank stock, but still, its a sohc!)

see there are other options to getting it crazy fast, but swapping over to a differant engine/tranny makes my pfc a waste of 1000 bucks. Trust me, if the thing was paid off it would already be insane... I still got a couple years left lol.

20 psi + nitrous... + co2 intercooler and piping coolers.

11 seconds? I'd :puke: if it wasn't



Dude - you can't compare a N/A aluminum block motor to a purpose built cast iron block turbo motor.

plus rather than going too crazy beyonf nitrous + turbo you might want to spend some time and money on C2GAS transmission + LSD, suspension, wheels and tires to make that bad boy hook up.

[mrtomcat]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
:AF: :ugh:



:chuckles:

I knew it....lol
going both ways was not meant in a sexual way....:)

[Liqquid]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Dude - you can't compare a N/A aluminum block motor to a purpose built cast iron block turbo motor.

plus rather than going too crazy beyonf nitrous + turbo you might want to spend some time and money on C2GAS transmission + LSD, suspension, wheels and tires to make that bad boy hook up.

yea, I know.... tires, lol... did you see the video of the 3sgte swapped celi at the track? what were those like 17" drag radials and still couldn't hook up!?

I suppose for now I should just stick to what I can do... but my next mod will take me in either direction... so If I change my mind it would be a waste.

Either lightweight flywheel, clutch, and c one final drive

or start buying turbo parts.

that's really the dillema. I'm sure I can get the first list done no problem by next spring, probably do some exhaust too.

but to spend all the money to turbo it and be right where I already am speed wise... and not really have too much to do till all the parts are there for the motor to be built... well, now do you understand what I mean? I get pretty impatient sometimes, I like to see a differance for the money I'm spending, or I get kinda off track and bored with the whole thing.

[black02gt]

If you go with a new tranny get the C2gas tranny, from what I understand it will hold pretty much anything you can throw on a celica and you can get it with the LSD. I would PM C2gas he can give you all the details

[monkeywrench]

We're running over 20psi on the 1zz in our Spyder and have not encountered structural problems with the aluminum block. At that kind of boost level it really comes down to tuning. We're able to boost over 20psi on pump gas, and will go even higher on race gas once we have larger injectors installed.

There's nothing about the 2zz that will limit it compared to the 1zz once you've done pistons and rods. It's got piston oil squirters, a shorter stroke, etc, so it should do even better. Nobody has come close to finding the limits of the 2zz yet. I wish we had time to do a GT-S project at the same time as our Spyder project. Maybe this winter...

Trans-wise, we'll be trying to break ours again this weekend. So far it's been flawless with just the Quaife as its only strength upgrade.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
We're running over 20psi on the 1zz in our Spyder and have not encountered structural problems with the aluminum block. At that kind of boost level it really comes down to tuning. We're able to boost over 20psi on pump gas, and will go even higher on race gas once we have larger injectors installed.

There's nothing about the 2zz that will limit it compared to the 1zz once you've done pistons and rods. It's got piston oil squirters, a shorter stroke, etc, so it should do even better. Nobody has come close to finding the limits of the 2zz yet. I wish we had time to do a GT-S project at the same time as our Spyder project. Maybe this winter...

Trans-wise, we'll be trying to break ours again this weekend. So far it's been flawless with just the Quaife as its only strength upgrade.

Good luck Matt! Go put down some crazy numbers and make everyone proud!

[00silverGTS6spd]

Originally posted by Boosted2.0
Good luck Matt! Go put down some crazy numbers and make everyone proud!

:werd:

[Liqquid]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
We're running over 20psi on the 1zz in our Spyder and have not encountered structural problems with the aluminum block. At that kind of boost level it really comes down to tuning. We're able to boost over 20psi on pump gas, and will go even higher on race gas once we have larger injectors installed.

There's nothing about the 2zz that will limit it compared to the 1zz once you've done pistons and rods. It's got piston oil squirters, a shorter stroke, etc, so it should do even better. Nobody has come close to finding the limits of the 2zz yet. I wish we had time to do a GT-S project at the same time as our Spyder project. Maybe this winter...

Trans-wise, we'll be trying to break ours again this weekend. So far it's been flawless with just the Quaife as its only strength upgrade.

thanks for the info... maybe I'll be ordering some engine parts soon...

now, if anyone here knows where I can buy some patience It would definatly help hmm.. spelling>me?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Liqquid
thanks for the info... maybe I'll be ordering some engine parts soon...

now, if anyone here knows where I can buy some patience It would definatly help hmm.. spelling>me?

Buy an alltrac - they beat patience into you like you could not imagine :)

[Bing]

Originally posted by black02gt
If you go with a new tranny get the C2gas tranny, from what I understand it will hold pretty much anything you can throw on a celica and you can get it with the LSD. I would PM C2gas he can give you all the details

It's a tranny + LSD in one.

[black02gt]

Originally posted by Bing
It's a tranny + LSD in one.

Yes, but isn't the LSD an option?

[Liqquid]

I still have a ways to go yet before that...

I don't have enough torque to break a rusty bolt free, let alone break a transmission!

[Tikked Again]

Something else to consider....

Breaking/cracking the bellhousing. Once the tranmission is beefed up internally what about the weak outter shell :chuckles:

[Liqquid]

when the nhra steps in and says I need one of those "scattershield" bellhousings, that's when I'll get one...lol


as for the outside case, I believe I read somewhere about someone using cement on the outside to add density to the shell?!?

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Liqquid
when the nhra steps in and says I need one of those "scattershield" bellhousings, that's when I'll get one...lol


as for the outside case, I believe I read somewhere about someone using cement on the outside to add density to the shell?!?

Yep - the honda guys started doing that back when they first started going fast. Its effective.

[marc]

nitrous and turbos mix well.

worry about traction first.

[Liqquid]

I believe as of tonight the decision was made, I have only 2 shops within reasonable driving distance to fill nitrous... one is always out, and then tonight, after the bottle had been in ice water all day, the other shop told me it was too warm... so I'm never going there again, I don't even know if they have a pump to top off the bottle... bunch of morons.

so, I'll be going the proven way and putting $$ down on the sf kit soon....

I definately have a love/hate relationship with n2o, I am sick of it being empty the day I want to go to the track.

[Boosted2.0]

Originally posted by Liqquid
I believe as of tonight the decision was made, I have only 2 shops within reasonable driving distance to fill nitrous... one is always out, and then tonight, after the bottle had been in ice water all day, the other shop told me it was too warm... so I'm never going there again, I don't even know if they have a pump to top off the bottle... bunch of morons.

so, I'll be going the proven way and putting $$ down on the sf kit soon....

I definately have a love/hate relationship with n2o, I am sick of it being empty the day I want to go to the track.

You will be glad you did. Turbos are more work to set up and tune but once you have it its always there and you nevr run out.

[padiq2]

Just jumping in for a quick question. ive got an auto gt-s lookign to swap to a 6 spd and then turbo. should i be lookign to go str8 to the c2gas tranny right now instead of the stock one? how much does it cost. im jsu getting started tuning so id apprecaite the help. Pm me if any of you advanced guyz have any advice for me. tahnkz.

[Liqquid]

it depends how far you wanna go with your project, and in how long a time. with a turbo on stock internals you can manage just fine with the stock tranny...

if you're gonna go nuts like a few of us are/want to on here... yea, go for the c2gas while you've got the tranny out, I guess it depends how often you like tearing the car apart lol.