Basic understanding help ... tuning a PFC

[kawika]

i'm in the process of reading through the "ecu tuning" board.

i really want to buy the pfc as my next mod, but since i am a total noob in this particular area, i really need to catch up somehow ...

couple of questions...

1. i need to tune this by myself and with no dyno available (no tuner in my country can handle the pfc, nor does a dyno exist)
is this possible? if yes, how and what is the SAFEST approach? (i am not looking for MAXING it ou)

2. if i swap out the stock ecu with the pfc, are all my onboard systems affected (airbags, abs, alarmsystem?, obd-2, etc?)

3. how can you check if the engine is running ok? does the pfc have some kind of warning-system?

4. as i understand, no cutting of wires are needed. correct?

5. where can i find information on how to tune the pfc? all the abbreviations on nc.org doesn't say me much yet (WOT?)

6. to best understand and get myself deeper into this subject i'd like to compare a base-map and a tuned-map. could anyone be willing to share those with me? (to see where changes were made and how much ...)



thanks

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by kawika
1. i need to tune this by myself and with no dyno available (no tuner in my country can handle the pfc, nor does a dyno exist)
is this possible? if yes, how and what is the SAFEST approach? (i am not looking for MAXING it ou)

yes you can do it without a dyno, you need to get a wideband O2 setup. This will monitor your air to fuel ratio and you have to tune your air to fuel ratio according to the display. And before you ask the air to fuel ratio gauge is no good, you need the wideband O2 setup to properly tune.

Originally posted by kawika
2. if i swap out the stock ecu with the pfc, are all my onboard systems affected (airbags, abs, alarmsystem?, obd-2, etc?)

PowerFC is not even OBD standards, so there will not be OBD-2, airbags is not controlled by ECU, alarm system not controlled by ECU, and ABS is controlled by something else.

Originally posted by kawika
3. how can you check if the engine is running ok? does the pfc have some kind of warning-system?

Yes there is, it has knock warning and all that I suggest you read up on the PowerFC manual before start playing with it.

Originally posted by kawika
4. as i understand, no cutting of wires are needed. correct?

Correct, unscrew the bolts holding stock ECU drop this in and plug in.

Originally posted by kawika
5. where can i find information on how to tune the pfc? all the abbreviations on nc.org doesn't say me much yet (WOT?)

First tune your A:F ratio then start manipulate other stuff like timing and such. After you are comfortable with it then start playing with higher functions.

Originally posted by kawika
6. to best understand and get myself deeper into this subject i'd like to compare a base-map and a tuned-map. could anyone be willing to share those with me? (to see where changes were made and how much ...)

Engine behavior is very different, some people would share their maps for comparisons only. You should NEVER use other people's tunned map, because what works for 1 engine may work very differently on another. You will have to find someone with similar mods to you to compare to.

Since there is going to be a big C2Power meet soon I recommand you go there, learn how to tune by talking to c2gas. He worked with PowerFC already so he knows what is going on with the equipment, also he has a wideband O2 setup and he got a hookup in Hungary to do dyno.

[kawika]

awesome information. thank you very much.

regarding the maps: i would never install an already tuned map. i just wanted to compare a base-map *against* a tuned-map to properly understand *where* changes should be made and what to better not touch. just want to skip the monkeying with my celica.

since i have none to help me out over here (and hungary ain't just around the corner either) i'd prefer narrowing the guinea pigging to a minimum ...

[cool2miketlu]

Soceur is in Germany, he is having his car fully built by C2Power. You might want to check his car out. Oh! He has PowerFC as well :) He is another person you may want to talk to after he finish playing around with the settings of the car. Talk to people in these import meets, they would know where to go dyno and tune a car. Also talking to others you would be able to pick up on some information about your car. BTW what is on your car? I assume Intake + Header + Exhaust? If that is what you have it is just the matter of fine tuning to max out the potential of your car :)

[kawika]

i got intake, header (getting installed soon), exhaust, flywheel (just ordered), and some minor other mods.

i know soceur personally, his car ain't even back in germany yet. and he didn't even tune the power fc, so there ain't much i might found out from him, i guess.

all the other celica owners in germany (on the german boards) are almost all as clueless as me ... i'm afraid ...

i guess, i have to be the guinea pig on this one ...

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by kawika
i got intake, header (getting installed soon), exhaust, flywheel (just ordered), and some minor other mods.

i know soceur personally, his car ain't even back in germany yet. and he didn't even tune the power fc, so there ain't much i might found out from him, i guess.

all the other celica owners in germany (on the german boards) are almost all as clueless as me ... i'm afraid ...

i guess, i have to be the guinea pig on this one ...



I believe c2gas is tuning the PowerFC for him, when Soceur go pick up his car c2gas will show him and tell him what they did. He can then relay that knowledge to ya, so you are not truely alone.
If you really want some help on tuning a PowerFC, I suggest you buy a Datalogit unit with the PowerFC. It opens up more tuning parameter than a Commander, and you get to join a private forum of tuners that would suggest what to do. I know for sure they will ask ya to get a Wideband O2 setup before they start educating you on fine points of tuning, because without that there is no point :)

[kawika]

yeah, i understand. i was planning to get the datalogit software and not the commander anyway.

i guess, you are right about soceur being able to help me out a little. what wideband o2 setup can you recommend any brand which is preffered or known to work better/mor precise ?

[cool2miketlu]

Here is a site that has good accurate wideband O2 setup:
http://www.widebando2.com/ (not tough to guess the web address :chuckles: )

There are cheaper alternatives too, you should search through yahoo and find one that is good for you. Since they should not be left plugged into the car, I suggest you get one that is removable easy to read and has datalogging capabilities. Oh do not forget to get a bung for the wideband O2 sensor either :) You will have to bring it to a muffler shop have them make a bunghole :gap: weld the bung on and you are set. When not in use plug up the bunghole :gap:

[many]

and what would be an ideal air fuel ratio for the celica?

[Oli]

I think 14:1 is ideal for the celica. I know you can use 14.7:1 but it's always wise to run a little rich.

[00silverGTS6spd]

I like 13.5 for daily and 14.0 for the track.

I also don't think its wise to mess with timing without seeing the results on a dyno. you can easily lose power and not know it.

[Illusive]

Originally posted by Oli
I think 14:1 is ideal for the celica. I know you can use 14.7:1 but it's always wise to run a little rich.
that is waaaaaay to lean for the street.

13.2-13.5 is ideal for street.

if you plan on running 14:1 (which i dont reccommend with out proper tuning) you will need to use 100 oct minimum for safety.

[cool2miketlu]

Remember they are in Europe, they do not have 91 octane even if they want. I think they run 98 octane so that 14:1 is ok I believe.

[Oli]

I use 98 octane. Isn't 13.2-13.5 more for tuned turbo cars?

[bagodoosh]

you have obd2 in germany?

[CraigR]

Hi kawika

I am in the same situation as you at the moment as I have the PFC on the way to me now. I have also just recieved my WBO2 Set-up from http://www.wbo2.com/ who are based in Australia. I bought the DIY version below:


DIY
version 2A0 with 2.6m cable AUS$194
0258006066 Boch LSU4 sensor AUS$150
6066 Harness connector kit AUS$8
LD01 Display Kit (Red) AUS$70

Prebuilt
WB02 2A0 system with 6066 sensor 2.6m cable AUS$650

You will need to have a lambda probe boss welded into the exhaust before the cat. Most exhaust places can sort that for you.


I have also have the Datalogit on the way direct from New Zealand to help with the tuning. Seven-of-Nine, Oli and I will no doubt work together to get the best results from the PFC.