Planning for turbo

[celicauk]

Ok, its a bit previous but as I am going to be starting my boot install soon I need to think quite a bit ahead.

I am considering fitting a turbo to complement the SC, therefore I need to make some room in the engine bay.

The major users of space, bar the engine obviously, are the battery, ecu and fuse box.

Now I reckon the battery can go in the boot, I already have a bloody great big cable running to the back so I should be able to implement that.

The ECU, this shouldn't be a big deal as most of it is now disconnected, could probably extend its wiring and relocate it in the cabin.

Fuse box is a little harder and may just end up being moved lower in the engine.

This should give me enough room for a side mounted turbo, or possibly the WC Toyota manifold will do, flat intercooler (vent grill in bonnet) and fan unit. It should also free up enough room for the required pipework and valves for the switch between turbo and SC (you can't really use them together).

Just looking for ideas/comments/opinions at the moment.

[FLO]

:AF:

[oldster]

Simon, do you have any performance numbers for the s/c as of yet?

[jotan82]

how many PSI do you think your engine can take? did you lower the stock compression in your engine? might be over kill putting in this turbo, just upgrade the s/c and internals and boost the PSI higher.... MY OPINION only, unless you have super major blueprinted plans that you've studied for months and is in devlopment, cuz i don't know too much, but i think upgrading would be your best option...

must be nice to have money

i'm broke :wiggle:

[jotan82]

wait wait wait... are you still running your nitrous?

[DaksGT]

Your gonna have gray hairs until you figure out the fuel maps, but good luck man.

[celicauk]

In short, no performance figures yet. I am waiting for a replacement ignition system (M&W) as the stock Toyota item is too unreliable, the car fried a coil pack last week and another whilst fitting the new ECU over the weekend. As these coil packs cost about

[larryd]

is there a reason you want both?? Id work on suspension and getting the power down before you even considered more power

[celicauk]

OK, just for those that are having difficulties here - the heading for the thread is "Planning For Turbo", as in planning, not as in doing. I am after useful feedback/information to give me a little guidance mostly on the pitfalls and hassles I am likely to encounter.

The brakes and suspension are already planned in, full Hotchkis setup for suspension and custom large disc conversion with 8 pot calipers on the front and four pots on the rear.

The reason for doing both is to give me mnore flexibility, the SC and engine work are a first stage for the car, I intend to have more work done on the engine to take more pressure and more power, this will take time and big buckets 'o' cash.

Planning this is very important as once the boot install is done I really don't want to have to redo it later, I would rather concentrate on the engine/transmission.

Any help or advice based on experience would be useful, don't bother questioning why, I got sick of that when I decided to go with the SC first.

Thanks

[M SPEC]

I'd be on the net looking for details about the HKS twin charger system which was available for I think the Toyota 4AGE. Maybe glean some tips of that setup and have they achieved it to run properly and make good power reliably. I think this would be a good start off point.

Jason

[celicauk]

Cool, I didn't even know they did one.

Thanks :D

[jotan82]

work on the suspension!

[My2ktoy]

Ok, I don't understand why you want to do this. Let me see if I understand you correctly, you want a supercharger for the low end torque, and want to switch over to the turbo at high speeds. You mentioned that you wanted to get rid of the parasic losses with a supercharger. But if you have a supercharger installed on your engine, regardless of whether or not there is a turbo also, you will suffer the parasitic losses associated with a supercharger. As long as its being turned by the pulley, it will draw power. The only way to avoid this is to disengage the supercharger from the pulley, so that only the pulley spins, not the s/c. I can't even begin to think about how you'd do that. Regardless, I don't know the power requirements of the s/c you're running, but an eaton m-45 at 10psi only needs ~25hp to run. So you should be losing less than that, since the rotrex is supposedly more efficient. Is it really worth the serious money required to gain that extra 25hp? I personally don't think so. Although on second thought, maybe bragging rights alone would make it worth it. :)

[celicauk]

I want to do this just because I can :D

The SC will be disengaged by a magnetic clutch, similar to that on an air con compressor, this is a known solution and can be done relatively easily. I am not convinced that this will cost huge amounts of cash, possibly the same as the original SC system cost. I can do the control electronics myself so that isn't an issue, I already have a fully mappable ECU so thats not going to need doing again, perhaps a little remapping at the top end but thats no biggy.

Pipework is no problem, the biggest issue as far as I can see is WC Toyota finishing the manifold and being willing to sell me just the manifold and possibly the turbo as obviously the other bits they are selling will be wasted on my car.

The more I think about this the easier it seems to be, especially if someone else does the difficult bit with the manifold.

You've got to admit, it would be cooler than a penguins dangly bits to have :D

Cheers

[DaksGT]

Man if you do this, hats off, I really mean it.
But now here is the negative me speaking, I think you will go through 4 engines before you figure it all out.

[celicauk]

I don't think I'll break the engine unless I overboost it, which I am being most careful about. The engine is designed for a specific level of boost, I am not using all this capability so I should be Ok.

I have lots of A/F, EGT and I am just designing a knock sensor display so I should be ok, on the other hand your probably right :D

[jotan82]

i love your dash board

[My2ktoy]

Well in that case, do it, show it off, brag about it, and post pics. :)

[celicauk]

Jotan, thanks.

My2ktoy, I do believe I shall :D

Another point I thought about on the incredibly annoying drive home tonight, was that having the turbo would allow me to bring the max boost level of th SC down lower in the rev range. So instead of generating 10psi at 6500RPM, I could have it doing that at about 4000RPM, turbo spool up from around 3000RPM ready to take the load from 4000RPM, now that would be a worthwhile benefit me thinks......

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by celicauk
I don't think I'll break the engine unless I overboost it, which I am being most careful about. The engine is designed for a specific level of boost, I am not using all this capability so I should be Ok.

I have lots of A/F, EGT and I am just designing a knock sensor display so I should be ok, on the other hand your probably right :D
once you design he knock sensor thingy please tell me about it.

[celicauk]

Ok, I am just finishing off a new electronic nitrous controller. Once this is in production I will be able to fully concentrate on the other toys I want, fancy an LCD panel with up to four gauges displayed at once, or one large gauge, being able to buy one unit to read all the sensors on your car, I have plans and a basic design sorted.

Perhaps sir would also like to be able to read his ECU directly, to check for those pesky CEL messages and reset them all from the comfort of ones seat? Also in the pipeline, one thing at a time though huh :D

[MilinGTS]

the man has a haltech. if he knows what hes doing he can boost a lot more than any of you think the stock internals can take :)

[celicauk]

:) Plus I have non stock internals, some people have all the fun :D