picking up crash bolts need to install tonight, have a question.

[Karim]

ok i'm picking up the bolt in like 30 min so i can get the alignment done tomorrow judging by this diagram http://home.earthlink.net/~celica73/camber.jpg the crash bolts seem to be 1 and 2, please correct me if i'm wrong. If those are the crash bolt, when i install them which one goes on top? the 3 dot? or the 1 dot? I'm going for -2 on front and neg -1.5 in back with no toe.

Thanx Guys

Karim

[pitcrew]

the 3 goes on the bottom (closest to the ground)
replace one bolt at a time to ease the process. Leave them slightly loose, put a jack under the wheel and jack up until spring is compressed, then tighten. This will set them at max camber and be drivable to the alignment shop.
You may not be able to get -2.0* with a 3 and 1.

[NoCones]

I got -2 degs (and could have gotten more) with stock bolts on the bottom and 3-dots on the top.

[nxracer]

Yep the 3 dots actually are better in the top.

[afghan]

I think the mechanic had me at -3.5 when I installed 3s and pushed them all the way in before tightening. A little too much!

[preparedcivic]

Yup, leave the originals in the bottom and the 3 dots in the top, push all the way in, and, depending on tolerances, get you in the 2 degree range per side. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. YMMV

[pitcrew]

The only problem being that Toyota does not approve using the 3 bolt in the top hole, except with another 3 in the lower, so technically it is an illegal mod according to the rules...

[nxracer]

At your next event protest one of us and see how far you get.

[pitcrew]

I'm not one to protest much of anything. Just don't give other's reason to protest me. :)

[NoCones]

nx, I'm curious how the argument would go if someone did raise a stink...the only 3-dot top combo in that shop manual table is with a 3-dot bottom also. I assume the stance would be something like:

"toyota authorizes the use of 'crash' bolts for front camber adjustment...the manual suggests certain combinations for gaining certain adjustability, but doesn't not preclude one from using whatever combo of Toyota bolts they desire."

???

[preparedcivic]

Geez, with a three in each hole, about 6 degrees of negative camber would be possible. :AF:

Think something might have gotten lost in the Japanese to English translation?

[autxr]

I've always wondered this as well. My reading of the manual puts the first undersized bolt in the bottom hole, whereas most shops (and individuals) chose to put it in the top hole.

Could you protest someone for having the bolts in the wrong holes?

[pitcrew]

I have a 2 on top 3 on the bottom and it maxes out at -2.2*. The way I read the chart, 3-3 would allow ~ an additional .2* if I so wanted.
I just posed this question to GH Sharp, and his take was that any combination not specifically authorized by Toyota would be considered illegal. (He was going right out to check his...)

[autxr]

I'm pretty sure I have a 1 on bottom and a 3 on top. That means I am not legal. I'll kick the crap out of anyone that protests me (locally). By the Petersburg Pro I'll probably swith them to where they belong.

I have a camber gauge, maybe I'll do it this weekend.

Scott

[preparedcivic]

Relax boys. A 3 on the top and 1 or even a set bolt on the bottom is perfectly legal. All the table in the shop manual gives is the approximate adjusting value of each bolt, when used in hole 1 or 2, as shown in Fig. F04048. The table is Fig. F01195. BTW, hole 1 is the top one, and the table shows that a single 3 dot in that whole will give a degree and a half of adjustment value. All this info is on page SA-6 in the manual, and as I remembered it when I put mine in almost 2 years ago. That single 3 dot, along with taking all the other slack and slop out to favor the negative camber direction, netted me my approximately 2 degrees per side.

[pitcrew]

Rob, are you looking at a different table than the one shown in the link in the first post? I don't see any place that gives a figure for a 3 in hole 1 and a set bolt, or any other combination that includes a 3 in hole 1 except the last line specifying a 3 in hole 2 as well???

[preparedcivic]

Thats the table. It doesn't specify anything. Read the paragraph above the table. All that is listed is an adjustment range for a particular bolt in either hole 1 or hole 2. Some are not shown because there is not a worthwhile amount of adjustment by putting that bolt in that hole.

Look at the left most combo, the stock set bolts in 1 and 2. There is 45 minutes of adjustment. No more. Therefore no bullets by the higher degrees. It works the same for the 1,2,3 dot bolts. Two 3's will net 3 degrees of adjustability; 1 degree 30 minutes for each hole. the popular 1 on the bottom 3 on the top gets you 1 degree 45 minutes. Look at the bullets in the table going down from the upper left to the lower right. Any dot bolt can be used in either hole.

[silver2001gts]

To me, the table seems to show a maximum of 1° 30' of adjustment with a 3-dot/3-dot combo. Please explain your logic, preparedcivic. I guess I don't understand the table.

[nxracer]

Can't speak for Rob but. The "stock" camber is supposed to be -.28' (.45

[preparedcivic]

To me, the table seems to show a maximum of 1

[Al2ktoy]

Whew! I thought I was in trouble a bit!

-Alan