Yet ANOTHER...Welcome to Ford's new Mach1 Mustang

[SlasherX]

LOTS of info here:

http://www.wsbf.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2235&forum=2&18

yet another outstanding job Blue Oval..thank you.

[daSchtick]

I bought an LX 5.0 new back in '89, and at that time I was dissappointed in the 10 year old 1970's technology Fox chassis. Now 13 years later, they are STILL using the same 'time proven' aka-outdated chassis. Until Ford does a FULL redesign to at least 1990 standards, it will not grab my interest. Heck, they FINALLY ditched the live axle (but not on all models!). In this weeks edition of Autoweek, there was an article on the 390HP Cobra. Sure it's got gobs of power, but even they said everything else was outdated. I have nothing against Ford, but they need to get with the program with some updating. You can only sell so many cars on history alone.

[SlasherX]

ford still outsells everythign else in the segment with the mustang..and its convertible outsells evry other convertible in the market.

not bad for a 1979 fairmont huh? ;)


oh yeah..stick axle is unbeatable for drag racing, and the IRs is great for teh road racer..what you'll learn is that you make compromises with each setup, and that if you do alittle bit of everything in a car, you cant have it good at everything.

but thats where teh aftermarket coems in...if you want a drag racer..cant beat teh 8.8 stick axle from teh factory..if you want to handle..get the IRS..then have fun with the stuff you'd put on any car to make it handle better.

but like always, it comes down to what YOU want in a car..you bought a celica so i can tell you aren't into drag racing heavily..but we both knwo you can make the celi drag race, right?

same thign with making a mustang handle..

[2002GT_Celica]

Looks nice, but I would never want a Mustang because where I live, everyone and their mom has a Mustang.

[Orion Pax]

Looks nice, but where's the black honeycomb between the taillights? :confused:

[SlasherX]

yeah good point..ford should have put that in there, huh? hmm..

[Vroom_Vroom]

thats great to hear! thats a bad ass motor!! but when will ford wake up and put some new design cues in it? especially the interior its nice and everything its just its getting old..there are small differences from the mach 1 and the current gt but i still cant believe that almost all of em look the same..and i hope those rims that are pictured dont come with it..but overall its a great car...

[SlasherX]

:)

redesign is coming in 2 years.. hold on to your horses..ford's just makign the fox platform go out with a bang....enjoy it while it lasts.

[2002GT_Celica]

Yeah, it should be very interesting to see what Ford does with the new Mustang design. I don't really like the one they have now, I liked the design of Mustangs in the 90 something to 95 period. But that is just my opinion.

[Da Kine Guy]

Is the hood scoop on that thing the intake? I am not to keen on things Ford, but from the pics it looks like it functions as something, not just the dress-up one from some other 'stangs I have seen on the road (the ones with the platic thingy blocking the hole).

[ringthree]

Wow another truck engine in that wont fit in the engine bay. Your right you can do some things to make the mustang look nice and they are bought alot (who else is in their segment again?) but for a while the Mustang has been the bitch of the Ford stable. Ford seems to think that enough HP will make up for everything (it can make up for alot though). The interior is atrocious and it handles like a Town Car (yes I have driven one several times). The redesign wont happen soon enough but I know that Ford wont make any advances in these fields, it's not like them, but then again neither was the Focus or the foresight put into the aftermarket development of that car so we will see.

[WillyK]

I'd rather have the Cobra S :D

[SlasherX]

shaker scoop is functional. it draws in air to the air filter and induction piece, and i *think* into the cars short runners in the upper intake manifold.

ringthree-- cars not a celica, its a larger car and has softer suspension. interior, etc. is all objective.

truck engine? teh DOHC has been used in the Cobra since 96(and before that, detuned in the mark VIII i believe), not a truck.

Willy..GM high tech performance just granny shifted the enw Cobra to a 12.6...be very scared of this car..lol :)

http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum5/HTML/001321.html

http://warnerrobert.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002804

[SlasherX]

FYI-- once those 03's come out, guess who's picking up a 99 Cobra..

[racinjason]

Ah my first love. Mustangs. :)

[WillyK]

Originally posted by SlasherX
Willy..GM high tech performance just granny shifted the enw Cobra to a 12.6...be very scared of this car..lol :)

If I had the money I would so buy a Cobra S....I want one :(

[Chui]

I think you mean Cobra R. The Mach 1 will be the Mustang to have in my opinion.

0 to 60 in "around 5 seconds."

[Vroom_Vroom]

how much of a price drop do u think the 99-2001 cobra will suffer? because if its big enough COBRA HERE I COME! HAHAHA

[SlasherX]

you can pick up a 99 Cobra right now for 17-20k in all pretty much teh same condition. i'm gonna wait until the 03 comes out so the price will drop further. way im looking at it is that the monthly on a used 99 wont surpass what im paying now for the V6 with a 2k dp. :)

willy--it sno longer a Cobra S...its now officially just the Cobra :)

Chui-- tell Team Mustang that they're doing a great job lately. :)

factory bilsteins on teh Cobra and Tokico's on the bullitt/mach1..

you guys rock!

[chameleon]

I really like the shaker scoop. I have a couple of friends who own 70's TA's with the shaker scoop and when I would ride with them I always thought it was really cool to see it move. For some reason it makes the car seem more intimidateing.

[TonyC]

Hmmmmmmmmm, if i wanted i fast car i would get a last gen Supra, more advanced in every way 5 years ago:wiggle: i read somewhere that the reason domestics won't change the basics of these and other cars is, PROFIT MARGIN

[WillyK]

Originally posted by TonyC
Hmmmmmmmmm, if i wanted i fast car i would get a last gen Supra, more advanced in every way 5 years ago:wiggle: i read somewhere that the reason domestics won't change the basics of these and other cars is, PROFIT MARGIN

Just because it's more advanced doesn't mean it is going to be faster. There are more domestics running faster than any Supra I'm sure.

[jotan82]

sorry i'm bias

i'd never drive a mustang

[ringthree]

Originally posted by SlasherX
ringthree-- cars not a celica, its a larger car and has softer suspension. interior, etc. is all objective.

I know it's not the Celica. But the internal design is POOR. The suspension and everything else is an afterthought. I love the raw power of the mustang and modified they make GREAT cars, I just think that ford neglects alot after the engine and sells it on HP numbers alone.

Originally posted by SlasherX
truck engine? teh DOHC has been used in the Cobra since 96(and before that, detuned in the mark VIII i believe), not a truck.

This is the engine they use in the one of the F series trucks. Yes the one from the Cobra. I'm surprised you didn't know that. I will try to find out which one.

[SlasherX]

they use the 4.6 SOHC in the f series..

[daSchtick]

Originally posted by SlasherX
they use the 4.6 SOHC in the f series..

The 5.4 is in the Lightning, and the last I checked it is a F-150 Truck......

[WillyK]

One of my biggest problems with the Mustang is the shifter, that thing is crooked as a barrel of snakes. That's one reason I like the new Cobra so much, it's normal and straight.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by daSchtick


The 5.4 is in the Lightning, and the last I checked it is a F-150 Truck......

That is true but I do kinda stand corrected (although they do use the same 4.6 for the lesser models, as I was making an indictment of mustangs in general). Here what I waas thinking of:

From May 2002 SCC

"[The Cobra R] packs a 5.4-liter, cast-iron version of Ford's Triton V8 with a forged crankshaft, Carrillo billet steel connecting rods and forged aluminum pistons yielding a compression ratio of 9.6:1. Even more impressive are the engine's aluminum DOHC cylinder heads, which were inspired by those of Ford's Rough Riders off-road truck program."

I got kinda thrown off, sorry. But my criticism of Fords treatment of the Fox platform is the same. This was kind of an irrelevent tangent.

[TonyC]

Originally posted by WillyK


Just because it's more advanced doesn't mean it is going to be faster. There are more domestics running faster than any Supra I'm sure. Hmmmmmmm, ok just go to suprastore.com for the 411 on fast cars, there won't be many "domestics" running as fast as those supras,besides most "domestics" are'nt as "domestic" as you think!

[scapamouche]

How not 'Domestic' can a 500 cu in Hemi be? The ONLY engine to have in Pro Stock Top Fuel or Fuuny Car..... They're pretty fast.

[oldster]

Originally posted by scapamouche
How not 'Domestic' can a 500 cu in Hemi be? The ONLY engine to have in Pro Stock Top Fuel or Fuuny Car..... They're pretty fast.
Hey mate, the only hemi's running in Pro Stock are the Mopars. It is true that all the fuel cars are running them though. :)

[oldster]

Originally posted by TonyC
besides most "domestics" are'nt as "domestic" as you think!

Care to elaborate on that a little more? :confused:

[SlasherX]

uhhh...my car was built in dearborn, michigan, its american owned and built, hell now that Bill took over, its operated by an American.

thats pretty damn domestic if you ask me...if you wanna get into engine design..well.that woul dbe overly american as well..even up to the cobra's 4.6 dohc..sooo...

ignorance is bliss i supose..too bad theres so much of it around.

[chameleon]

Originally posted by SlasherX
ignorance is bliss i supose..too bad theres so much of it around.

That's a good quote SlasherX, I'll have to remember that one. ;)

I am kind of surprised by a lot of the comments that you guys made and I found them somewhat confusing. Mustaing sucks because they use a truck engine? Even if it were true that it was the same engine they used in their F-150, what's wrong with putting it in a car? I mean really, what's your point? And then there is the whole Supra's are better argument. What the heck is that all about? This wasn't a "the new mustain is the best, fastest car in the world" post, it was just a post about a new car model that was coming out that car enthusiests might find interesting. Why did every one attack it?

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by WillyK
One of my biggest problems with the Mustang is the shifter, that thing is crooked as a barrel of snakes. That's one reason I like the new Cobra so much, it's normal and straight.

get a tri-ax..you would not believe how many car owners have tried it and wish they could get one for their cars.

ive had a ws6 owner, dsm guys, 5.0 owner, neon owner, 240sx owner, miata owner, rsx owner, and a datsun z owner al sit in my car just to try out the shifter. its *perfect*

[TonyC]

Originally posted by oldster


Care to elaborate on that a little more? :confused: well all the V-6's in the Ford Explorer's are made in Germany, But then again, Toyota builds some cars here, I'm just saying that these people who think that just because it's a ford or chevy or dodge does'nt mean it's 100% american!

[TonyC]

Originally posted by SlasherX
uhhh...my car was built in dearborn, michigan, its american owned and built, hell now that Bill took over, its operated by an American.

thats pretty damn domestic if you ask me...if you wanna get into engine design..well.that woul dbe overly american as well..even up to the cobra's 4.6 dohc..sooo...

ignorance is bliss i supose..too bad theres so much of it around. i don't think i'm all that ignorant as you say,considering that i have owned lots of domestics, and was racing and working on them while you were in diapers :wiggle:

[Chui]

I'd take a Mustang Cobra R over any Toyota Supra Turbo. And I'm not especially fond of Mustangs, in general. I can state that the Mach 1 is one seriously quick car. And I state that from personal experience.

[TonyC]

It's all a matter of personal taste anyway

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by TonyC
well all the V-6's in the Ford Explorer's are made in Germany, But then again, Toyota builds some cars here, I'm just saying that these people who think that just because it's a ford or chevy or dodge does'nt mean it's 100% american!

haha of course it isnt..its like the damned UN under my hood..but you'd be fooling yourself if you thought japanese cars were any different. a kid i know took out his stock gauges in his 98 accord coupe..guess who's name was stamped on them?

Ford. in nice blue ovals into the plastic housing, i **** you not.

being teh domestic hating moron he is, he then scraped them off with a pocketknife in disgust and promply put in his 25 color indiglo lights.

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by Chui
I'd take a Mustang Cobra R over any Toyota Supra Turbo. And I'm not especially fond of Mustangs, in general. I can state that the Mach 1 is one seriously quick car. And I state that from personal experience.

if you wanted to turn either into a track car, the amount of parts out there are nearly unlimited. i'd probably pick the supra. i like the fit and finish better for a daily driver. and cheaper to get into the next echelon of power. engine's pretty tough from what i've seen.

i'd pick a Mach 1 over the Cobra tho. :D i saw one at the NY International Auto Show, looked real nice. i hope it turns out better than the Bullit :bang:

[SlasherX]

i dunno about the Supra being all that cheap to modify vs. a fox chasis mustang..

for a daily driver, the supra has it beat cuz of the A/C and radio, etc..but its also paying a decent weight penalty for it.

for an all out track car though, you'd be a fool to not pick the cobra R...thats what it was designed for.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by chameleon

I am kind of surprised by a lot of the comments that you guys made and I found them somewhat confusing. Mustaing sucks because they use a truck engine?

I think you missed the point of my post. Ford believes that by adding HP they are making up for the other inadequacies of the Fox-body. They aren't.

Oh and Slasher, you have got to be kidding me that the R is a better track car than the Supra? I don't think you have any support for that at all. It can barely handle an Elise ;) (See most recent issue of SCC).

Besides if you did equivalent work to a Supra that has been done to a Cobra R, the Supra would KILL it. I love mustangs too, but come on man.

[t2000gts]

well when i say cheaper, i mean you got all the power you need on tap. you don't even need to modify the engine much to handle big boosts in power unless you're going like over 500-600hp. no new valves/pistons/rods, nothing.

money would probably be similar in modding the suspensions, but you could skimp out a bit on the supra and still be fine. money would be better put into a racing school.

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by ringthree


I think you missed the point of my post. Ford believes that by adding HP they are making up for the other inadequacies of the Fox-body. They aren't.

Oh and Slasher, you have got to be kidding me that the R is a better track car than the Supra? I don't think you have any support for that at all. It can barely handle an Elise ;) (See most recent issue of SCC).

Besides if you did equivalent work to a Supra that has been done to a Cobra R, the Supra would KILL it. I love mustangs too, but come on man.

last i checked ford added more than just HP. try brembo 13 inch vented disc brakes and 11.7 vented rear discs. try tokico shocks and stiffer springs that lower the car a 1/2 inch and provide more linear spring rates, try factory subframe connectors to brace the chasis and reduce flex. and thats just teh mach 1. on the 2003 cobra you get Bilsteins from the factory along with otehr nice components. Ford is FAR from just adding HP to the cars. thats what GM was doing for years with the f-bods and now they're having to discontinue them.

the R would EAT the Supra...PERIOD. you're basing your argument of the car on SCC for christs sake! the same magazine that dynoed the R at how much rwhp? i heard 250..in reality they dyno AT 385rwhp. SCC is also notorious for their "mountin run comparison" test between a one of a kind pushrod powered 99 GT mustang(FYI--pushrods havent been used in the mustang v8 since 1995)


as for adding so and so to a supra..thats a riceboy argument..the supra did not come with whatever you wanna add to it, and if you added more to the R it would be even better.

for once would you people just drop the BS and accept that maybe there is more to the world then what comes out of japan? seriously, now your arguments are just looking moronic.

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by t2000gts
well when i say cheaper, i mean you got all the power you need on tap. you don't even need to modify the engine much to handle big boosts in power unless you're going like over 500-600hp. no new valves/pistons/rods, nothing.

money would probably be similar in modding the suspensions, but you could skimp out a bit on the supra and still be fine. money would be better put into a racing school.

2000 cobra R's dyno at 385rwhp..last i checked a heavier stock supra does not come close to that. put forced induction on the R(since we're using riceboy logic of coulda, shoulda, woulda) and you're looking at over 530rwhp(has been done). thats AT THE WHEELS for the car, not crank, so in reality they push over 400hp stock at teh crank, and with 8 psi supercharger lots more, damn near 600hp.

suspension wise, teh R already has shocks/struts/springs, and independent rear suspension, bushings, etc. there is not much left to do to teh car to fine tune it at all.

the R was built for road racing and track use only, the Supra was not, and would need to be modded in order to match the R's level of performance, period. and modded supra's are not what this argument was about, and if it is..dare i say put it up against a modded R.