Got a nice Ticket Violation 23109(a): Speed Contest a.k.a. Street Racing, pls help [Archive]

SilverNico

03-30-2002, 09:56 PM

First off. I do not need to be flamed. I will never street race in my life again. This was not cool. It WAS a safe atmosphere, as in 2 AM with NO cars on the road (cept the cops that got us heh.)

Anyways it was a modded civic (previous gen.) and modded accord (previous gen). Basically we were racing from light to light (hey it was after i got back from Barona, PS I won $100 bucks). Anyways i dusted them. From every light. And we must have FLOWN by some cops. I think we took it up to 75 while the limit is 50. The ****ing civics exhaust was so god damn loud im sure thats what got us caught. so heres a big :fawk: for that guy.

Cops weren't on the road when we were racing at all. We were sitting a red light (after many runs) and all of a sudden there are 3 cop cars behind us, oh joy. I only saw 2 at first. Civic and accord went straight and I watched the 2 cop cars I saw follow them while i merged into the left turn lane thinking i was on my cakewalk home. BLAM cop right behind me i see the shadow of his lights in my mirror. i get literally a block down the road and he puts his lights on and i pull right over.

bottom line: he did not arrest me. he did not impound my car. he did however give me a traffic ticket for the violation of:

23109(a) CVC. Speed Contest On Hwy

The ticket says my approximate speed was 40 in a limit of 50.

This whole situation was stupid and is the last time im ever going to race on the streets again.

I guess I really don't have a general question. Possibly has anybody gotten 23109 before? If so what happened, how much did you have to pay? I got a court date and all comin up ... april 26th.

Should I get a lawyer? Blah I can already here the flames on their way ...

-Nico

Masayver

03-30-2002, 10:20 PM

Eh, "40 in a limit of 50" is bad?

kuruptgt

03-30-2002, 10:33 PM

40 in a limit of 50 ??????

larryd

03-30-2002, 10:40 PM

regardless of the speed it was a speed contest.. meaning a race.. even if the speed limit was 70 and they did 0-60 they can get a speed contest ticket.. if you wanna beat the ticket.. get a lawyer..

00 scrub

03-31-2002, 12:41 AM

hmmm, try and get a lawyer and fight the ticket. you might want to try out this guy Robert P. Croissant (714) 730-2085. HE might be bale to help you even though you are in SD. Also see if the NC.org member "Jaysong" is around, he has experiance with getting out of racing tickets.

SlasherX

03-31-2002, 02:06 AM

this is why i gave up street racing..

call up a lawyer, most likely you're screwed though...lately there have been A LOT of street racing deaths around the country, so judges aren't going to be as lenient as thy may have been in teh past. best piece of advice i can give you is to go to teh court date dressed in good clothes and try to talk to the officer and the judge as much as you can, explain your situation(or make one up) and see what can be done. good luck, and next time keep it at the track.

pinoyracer

03-31-2002, 03:08 AM

Cops weren't on the road when we were racing at all. We were sitting a red light (after many runs) and all of a sudden there are 3 cop cars behind us, oh joy. I only saw 2 at first. Civic and accord went straight and I watched the 2 cop cars I saw follow them while i merged into the left turn lane thinking i was on my cakewalk home. BLAM cop right behind me i see the shadow of his lights in my mirror. i get literally a block down the road and he puts his lights on and i pull right over.

Ur down So Cali right??? If there are no cops around the street, don't forget some of them are flying above you. Cops in choppers bro, they are the ones who always spot where drag racing is and report them to the cops below. That's how it is in Nor Cal, that's why u need a look up with a radio receiver, so that he/she could intercept the radio frequency of the cops while u do ur thang.

autxr

03-31-2002, 05:29 AM

Yup get a lawyer. Ask around, find one who has some experience. In your case you don't want to go to trial, you want to get it reduced to a charge that isn't going to scrrew you (too bad you weren't speeding!).

That could be why the cops sisn't write it up as speeding, they just wanted to make sure the ticket stuck.

Oh, now for the part you don't want...

If there were no cars around and it was an empty street, then how did the cops see you (lets pretend it wasn't the helecopter). Basically, you ad mit there were cars around and you DIDN"T see them. that's how folks get killed. Could be a drunk person driving with no lights at that street you are approaching, they sure as hell don't need you to help kill them, but they just might need you to do the job on yourself...

Rant off.

Scott

SilverNico

03-31-2002, 05:46 AM

Thanks for the info fellas.

Autoxr: I believe the 3 cops were posted at a gas station just parked. We were haulin by doin 75 (they never clocked us) and this is why we got 40 in a 50? Funny thing is, from the second the cop was behind me to the point where he pulled me over I was never going above 30 mph. (residential). So how could he possibly write 40 in a 50 on the ticket?

I will begin my search for a lawyer first thing Monday morning.

baNanA_ryCe

03-31-2002, 08:47 AM

to me: just pay the friggin ticket..and get it over with. don't bother w/ the lawyer, you'll end up paying him instead of the court. just my .02

pinoyracer

03-31-2002, 08:57 AM

to me: just pay the friggin ticket..and get it over with. don't bother w/ the lawyer, you'll end up paying him instead of the court. just my .02

Yup, I agree. Don't take this on the court because if you loose, the judge might give u a heavy sentence or give u a much heavier fine. Plus they might bring some evidence like hidden camera of u guys racing. Not unless those cops beat u up when they pulled u over, that's the time you'll bring ur case to the court :gap:

Just pay the ticket

SlasherX

03-31-2002, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by baNanA_ryCe
to me: just pay the friggin ticket..and get it over with. don't bother w/ the lawyer, you'll end up paying him instead of the court. just my .02

not true, i got advice and step by step on what to do from mine for free, and he later then called me back to see how the trial went. his advice saved me $120 and 2 pts BTW.

Jnsd

03-31-2002, 01:21 PM

Coolwheels00

03-31-2002, 04:53 PM

Be glad your not in GA. They don't give tickets for streetracing and let you go. Here, you go straight to jail AND get the ticket. It's the law that they have to take you in if they issue a ticket for racing. Good luck.

larryd

03-31-2002, 06:16 PM

yea lawyers definitely help.. I got out of my street racing/running from the cops ticket becuase of my lawyer..ofcourse he cost me 500 bucks but I was facing over 1000 in fines and got them dropped to 100 bucks and no points..

JaySong

03-31-2002, 08:29 PM

Gosh! I feel like such a nice guy helping you out when you aren't even searching out to ask for my help.

As far as your ticket is concerned it's already won. You can thank me later!

SilverNico

03-31-2002, 09:48 PM

larryd: could you please give me that lawyers info? perhaps he knows of someone in my area. (or i'll pay to have him fly out? heh.)

jaysong: what do you mean?

larryd

03-31-2002, 10:00 PM

haha.. my lawyer is based in Philly.. his name is Richard Haas I beleive.. but I cant remember exactly..havent dealt with him since..

00 scrub

03-31-2002, 10:22 PM

SilverNico, try the lawyer I gave you, I know he has experiane with speeding/racing (my friend used him for a ticket like that) here is the info if you missed it

Robert P. Croissant (714) 730-2085.

SilverNico

03-31-2002, 10:36 PM

dank, thanks scrub.

JaySong

04-01-2002, 09:01 AM

still haven't figured it out yet, haven't you. the answer is right there. Please promise me that you won't race at night especially so late as 2AM. You are just beggin for a ticket and second there is no point racing riced up civics and accords. you know you'll win.

baNanA_ryCe

04-01-2002, 09:11 AM

still haven't figured it out yet, haven't you. the answer is right there.

WHERE?! :D

JaySong

04-01-2002, 09:23 AM

Read the last sentence on this vehicle code.

"23109. (a) No person shall engage in any motor vehicle speed
contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed
contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a
clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an
event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20
miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed
limits, is not a speed contest."

Email me Nico and I'll tell you how to go about getting it dismissed
right away instead of going through the trial.

jaysong00@yahoo.com

baNanA_ryCe

04-01-2002, 09:31 AM

oh makes sense....

autxr

04-01-2002, 09:47 AM

Does it make sense, I see that last section as allowing car clubs to have road rallys.

"For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest."

Notice the route has to be over 20 miles AND the speeds not exceeding the speed limits.

You can try and argue both points, but without supporting documentation, good luck. I'd still pay the $200 or so it takes to get a lawyer to save your ass.

Scott

kpsilverman

04-01-2002, 10:08 AM

My My Sherlock! you strike again. First you get off yourself on your speeding ticket, and then a kid who's gone 90mph in a local street, now this.

SilverNico, Don't listen to Autoxr, It's understandable that he is negative as he is strongly against street racing and does not want to see anyone get off easily.

SilverNico

04-01-2002, 08:05 PM

i got a quote from a lawyer for $300 for the case. I want to hear what jays0ng has to say before i dish out 3 bills.

so reply to that email jays0ng :P

heheh

oldster

04-01-2002, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by SilverNico
i got a quote from a lawyer for $300 for the case. I want to hear what jays0ng has to say before i dish out 3 bills.

so reply to that email jays0ng :P

heheh

Don't know where Jay got his expertise, this was the last I saw of his predicament.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264

JaySong

04-01-2002, 09:10 PM

I came into my own ticket without a clue but since my racing ticket, I've done some research and I have a cousin who's a soon to be attorney with who's help I was able to access the various law libraries.

rocket celica

04-01-2002, 10:42 PM

Hey you all,

just to set the record straight Autoxr is not correct. There is indeed a law that if a car does not go over the speed limit, then it's not considered a speed contest. They have this law, otherwise it's just gonna get ridiculous with frivolous ticket.
If indeed the car was at initial stages of racing, the cop has to cite them for exhibition of speed.

I had my speed contest ticket for doing 40 in a 40ph zone dismissed because of this law.

peleus21

04-01-2002, 10:55 PM

don't get a lawer just get someone who knows how to fight it and get them to give you some tips

i was street racing and got pulled over (in canada) got a ticket for "driving without due consideration to other drivers" ( a 5 point ticket and 175 dollar fine) (( 10 points and they take your license)) try to explain off that one

your best defense is that you weren't racing and your speed prooves it besides the officer has to show up to court also(in canada anyways) you have a 50/50 right there. i got out of mine cuz i have a friend cop who told me some tricks to beet a ticket
just email me and maybe i can help further

oldster

04-02-2002, 12:18 AM

You've gotten some good and not so good advice. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck.

SilverNico

04-02-2002, 09:44 AM

welp.

time will tell. :/

OH yea,

the other 2 cops snagged the civic and the accord. if im pleading not guilty can't they refer to those 2 tickets they handed those guys?

Just a thought...

SilverNico

04-02-2002, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by rocket celica
Hey you all,

just to set the record straight Autoxr is not correct. There is indeed a law that if a car does not go over the speed limit, then it's not considered a speed contest. They have this law, otherwise it's just gonna get ridiculous with frivolous ticket.
If indeed the car was at initial stages of racing, the cop has to cite them for exhibition of speed.

I had my speed contest ticket for doing 40 in a 40ph zone dismissed because of this law.

Rocket Celica: Do you have any more info on this law you are speaking of? Like the law # heh?

Thanks :]

celenium

04-02-2002, 10:15 AM

SilverNico,
You are asking very idiot questions. I think people helped you out enough. Time to face up to the consequences. If u can't stand the heat stay away from the kitchen.
Other cases don't mean jack ****. They will only talk of your case. It's not your cop who pulled them over anyway.

Look you were going less than the speed limit. It is a bull**** ticket. most racing tickets are like 90- 100 in a 35 limit and they get their reduced to wreckless drving,etc.

you know that street racing is a misdemeanor offense unless dismissed, it will stay on your record. You race again and then you will get a stiffer penalty possibly jail time.
I don't believe lawyers are that cheap $200-$300. That's not a good attorney and plus they will charge more if you choose to contest the ticket and have a trial. I can bet you that they will make you plead no contest. If not, these attorneys will ask for more money up to a $1000 to have a trial.
With $200 it's only to plead no contest and possibly get the charge lowered or fine reduced.
If you are gonna get an attorney, it's not worth it unless you get a not guilty verdict. I believe it's not that diffcult in your case since you were under the limit.
You got luck on your side though, under the speed limit "racing" is hard for anyone to believe including judges.

If you were truely going 75mph, I don't understand why the cop didn't just write you up for 75. you lucky bastard.

Jeff

Originally posted by SilverNico
welp.

time will tell. :/

OH yea,

the other 2 cops snagged the civic and the accord. if im pleading not guilty can't they refer to those 2 tickets they handed those guys?

Just a thought...

bgreganti

04-02-2002, 10:28 AM

Vehicle code sections do not override each other, unless specifically listed in the section.

SilverNico was written specifically for 23109 (A).

23109. (a) No person shall engage in any motor vehicle speed contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.

The first bolded sentence says it all. If you compete in a speed contest you're guilty, regardless of your speed... unless you meet the requirements of the last sentence. Note that the last sentence says "For the purpose of this section...", meaning that it doesn't apply anywhere else. If another section applied to this one it would say "Pursuant to section xxxxx..." somewhere in there.

Autoxr is 100% correct on what that last sentence was meant for.

Rocket Celica, If there's another section that you think applies, please post the section number. However, as someone who has read more of the vehicle code than most CHP officers, I'm pretty sure it's not going to apply here.

SilverNico, the easiest way out of this is to call a lawyer and pay him. You could fight this yourself and possibly win, but it takes a lot of research. I spent probably close to 40 hours researching radar in order to fight a ticket for exceeding 100 mph, and I only got the ticket reduced, not dismissed. It's possible to beat it, but it's probably not worth your personal time. Pay the lawyer, he does this kind of work all day long.

JaySong

04-02-2002, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by pinoyracer

Yup, I agree. Don't take this on the court because if you loose, the judge might give u a heavy sentence or give u a much heavier fine. Plus they might bring some evidence like hidden camera of u guys racing. Not unless those cops beat u up when they pulled u over, that's the time you'll bring ur case to the court :gap:

Just pay the ticket

The boy was doing 75mph but was only cited for 40 in a 50 zone.
It does not take much to deduce that the cop did not radar nor even pace him so what's the chance that the cop have had a hidden camera? Nil!
Also it seems evident that the cop noticed him at the last minute, thus he was not confidently able say the correct speed and came by after that race was finished.

Originally posted by JNSD

A few of my friends were caught about a year ago street racing. The only one who didn't get completely screwed over was the one who got a lawyer. Yes he did pay the lawyer more than he would have paid the court, but they droped the ticket down to almost no points on the record (maybe 1-2).

I think this is a pretty serious ticket, he might not have a choice but to get a lawyer.

It's not always the case, it will end up costing this lad more money if he fights the ticket with a lawyer. They may ask for $2-$500 for no contest but if u do a trial it cost more. The attorney I consulted asked for $1000 for trial. Most attorneys want you to not fight the ticket because that's the easiest way out for them. They don't care that it hurts you in the long end. You never know you might get more racing tickets. But since I got mine dismissed, I can start afresh again. In cases like Nico, which is a much better situation than mine was, it's worth a shot. He was going slower than the flow of traffic which is usually higher than the limit. There is the law that says it's not racing unless it's over the limit, which makes sense.
If however, the ticket states 90mph then, the chances are next to nil and he should be better getting a lawyer but this case will be a easy money maker to a lawyer.

Originally posted by Larry D

yea lawyers definitely help.. I got out of my street racing/running from the cops ticket becuase of my lawyer..ofcourse he cost me 500 bucks but I was facing over 1000 in fines and got them dropped to 100 bucks and no points..

As I stated above you can't base it on Larry's case. He's was much serious. He was radared going pretty fast. He was evadin' police and helicopter were on him. There were tons of proof and he had no chance. So for him it was a sound idea but for you Nico, I am willing to stake my whole forturne that if it were me, I would have no doubt of winning the case. The cop has no proof.
And if you delay time he won't remember a thing. He'll only repeat things he wrote down.

autxr

04-02-2002, 11:02 AM

Hell, it's your life and your driving record. Don't forget, what you pay for the ticket and fees is often a lot less than what the insurance company charges you.

If they decide they can't cover you because of your driving record, here is what happens...

1) They notify you in writing, typically you have 30-60 days to get new coverage.

2) they notify the bank that you no longer have adequate coverage as required by your loan agreement.

3) the bank calls you unless you manage to get adequate coverage elsewhere...

You get the picture.

Your life, some of us tried to help, screw it up as you please, or do the smart thing.

Scott

celenium

04-02-2002, 11:14 AM

Briganti,

I'm 100% yankee and You are not a native speaker. You do not seem to grasp the meaning. You may claim to have read all sorts of codes but the bottom line is that you are not a law expert nor did you get the VC asked by the attorney which I did just now.

The first sentence a topic sentence like all paragraphs will say the subject. Here it says "no one is to race"
Then the following sentences describes what constitues it.
Then it ends off by saying that if you do not pass the posted limit, it is not considered racing.

If as you say there was no speed limit for it to qualify as being racing, then where do you draw the line and say which is racing and which is not. By what you say, if a cop saw your rev up and take off next to a car and is pulled over right away at 10mph, then why do they cite you for exhibition of speed and not racing?

The last part draws the line by saying you need to at least go over the speed limit to apply to this code.

bgreganti

04-02-2002, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by celenium
Briganti,

I'm 100% yankee and You are not a native speaker. You do not seem to grasp the meaning.

If you were trying to imply that I'm some race other than "yankee" you would be correct. I'm actually white, as in cacuasian. But I don't see why my ethnicity has anything to do with this conversation.

You may claim to have read all sorts of codes but the bottom line is that you are not a law expert nor did you get the VC asked by the attorney which I did just now.

No, I'm not a law expert, but I do know how to read, and obviously you need an english course. Because I am not a law expert I recommended that he seek the advice of one. Fvck, from now on I'll have to put a disclaimer on all my posts.

The first sentence a topic sentence like all paragraphs will say the subject. Here it says "no one is to race"
Then the following sentences describes what constitues it.
Then it ends off by saying that if you do not pass the posted limit, it is not considered racing.

Learn to fvcking read you idiot! It DOES NOT say that if you don't speed it's not a race. Let's break the last sentence apart for the fvcking morons here...

For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.

"For purposes of this section" means this statement only applies to this section, 23109 (A), and no others.

"an event in which the time ... is measured" means it is a contest of time, not of speed.

"cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles" means that the route is predetermined and is longer than 20 miles. Do you know what the word "prescribed" or "predetermined" means?

"but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits" - the key word is here "but". If you exceed the speed limit, nothing else in the statement applies.

If as you say there was no speed limit for it to qualify as being racing, then where do you draw the line and say which is racing and which is not.

Two words: OFFICER DISCRETION.

No I don't like it, but the fact is, if he thinks you're "competing" he can write you a ticket for it. It's up to you to fight the ticket if you don't think it's right.

The last part draws the line by saying you need to at least go over the speed limit to apply to this code.

Like I said... learn to fvcking read. There's a lot more to that last sentence than you think.

Do us all a favor, don't bother posting until you have something of value to add to this conversation.

autxr

04-02-2002, 01:39 PM

Gotta admit, I'm with Bill on this one.

There are 3 sentences in 23109 (A). The 2nd one defines a speed contest, the 3rd lists ONE exclusion, and that is for a predetermined course over 20 miles when speeding isn't involved (in other words a TSD rally).

There isn't an "or" in the 3rd sentence, it doens't say, "where there is a predetermined course over 20 mile OR the speeds do not exceed the posted limit."

It says "and". Lets all go back to junior high school where we learned basic logic. They still teach that don't they?

Scott

celenium

04-02-2002, 04:40 PM

Bgreganti,

From my courses in psychology, the mere fact that u can only defend your argument by cussing, indicates to me that you don't have a firm support for your claim.
Your name suggested a portugese background so therefore, I thought you were an ESL student due to your misinterpretation of the meaning of that paragraph. But that's beside the point. The point is that the several attorneys I've brought this up with has told me that if it's under the limit it's not racing.
I don't understand your anger. A person who gets angry is always the loser. Think for a second why someone would get angry. It's because things are not happening the way you want it. you are not satisfied, that you are not winning this argument.
Reread several posts back, there was a guy who got his dismissed on the same grounds.

peleus21

04-03-2002, 01:27 AM

gota love a good scap

bgreganti

04-04-2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by celenium
Bgreganti,

From my courses in psychology, the mere fact that u can only defend your argument by cussing, indicates to me that you don't have a firm support for your claim.

So you took psychology courses, but never passed English? The last sentence in the code is very specific. As autoxr pointed out, the sentence says "and" not "or".

The point is that the several attorneys I've brought this up with has told me that if it's under the limit it's not racing.

I'm not arguing what anybody said or told you. I'm arguing that the meaning of that sentence is very specific. I don't see how ANYONE can misinterpret the meaning of it. It's very clear.

I don't understand your anger. A person who gets angry is always the loser.

Yeah, whatever. Many people think that people who argue over the internet are losers too, so I guess that includes both of us. :)

Think for a second why someone would get angry. It's because things are not happening the way you want it. you are not satisfied, that you are not winning this argument.

Actually, the reason I got angry was the fact that you challenged my ability to read and comprehend simple English, by imlpying that I was some sort of foreigner. If you've been around the board much, you'll notice I'm not usually that vocal.

Reread several posts back, there was a guy who got his dismissed on the same grounds.

And he has not provided any proof. In fact, nobody in this whole thread has provided any proof one way or another. The only thing in this whole thread that is factual, is the code itself, which can be verified at http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23109.htm. And that is actually all we're arguing about here.

And just because somebody gets a ticket dismissed, does not change the meaning of the law. There are plenty of ways to get out of a ticket, but someone else can still get one for exactly the same thing.

BoyRacer

04-04-2002, 03:23 PM

well you could waste your money on a laywer. or do what i did yesturday. oh by the way i just was in court for a drag race scene. well i requested a conference with a justice. so i had it yesturday. she offered me no points, no driving school, and a $38 fine so i took it. i wasnt actually racing, but i as a a huge race scene and they busted 500 some odd cars. and for that i have drag racing on my record......its stupid. you could get a lawyer, but with court fees a ticket laywer would be around 150
my fines were 78 and then went up to 100......i just thought i would share.....anyways i feel your pain.

oldster

04-04-2002, 03:43 PM

Doesn't sound like the same situation at all. :confused:

autxr

04-04-2002, 04:23 PM

And FL law is like CA law how?

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ImSoNastie

04-04-2002, 07:04 PM

well me and boyracer were at the same place down in north miami when they busted 500 somthing peeps. what really sucks is how he got off a lot better then me. i wasn't even driving there and i had to pay 100 and basically got my liscence suspended for a month for frickin watching that shait.

BoyRacer

04-04-2002, 09:31 PM

well Fla. law.....is messed up too.. i dunno i think its a similar situation....only he got caught racing. i was assumed racing. i am not saying i got a moving violation.....its not completely apples and oranges. its still a drag racing violation. nm....

SilverNico

06-04-2002, 01:22 PM

Well everybody.

I regardless of everybodies advice (and trust me, it was much appreciated) I decided to hire a lawyer.

Here is my update:

I hired a lawyer.
He postponed everything for 2 more months.
The D.A. wanted me to go down :(
My lawyer told the D.A. that the cops report was a pile of crap (it basically said that he saw me racing the cars and that I admitted to it.)
My lawyer told the D.A. and they agreed to have the cop re-write something in addition to his police report being a little more descriptive.
I guess he couldn't remember ****. Cause he wrote something just as pathetic and non-descriptive as his original police report.

My lawyer bargained.

Conclusion:

After paying $300 to retain my lawyer, he got my racing deal settled by:

1 point on my record &
$200 fine to the court

:D
:D
:D
:D

YOshi31

06-04-2002, 01:32 PM

LUCKY!

autxr

06-04-2002, 01:52 PM

Boy, dragging up an old thread, it's nice to see conclusions to things!

So, you had differing opinions. One side said get a lawyer, and the other side said you don't need no stinking lawyer.

So, are you glad you got a lawyer? $500 and one point. THe one point is laughable. The $500 isn't dirt cheap, but do you think you would have done better by yourself?

Of course, I'm sure JaySong would have gotten you off for nothing with no points...

Glad it worked out well for you!

Scott

red lucifer

06-04-2002, 02:16 PM

Oh! my god! you are a ----ing idiot! you were doing under the speed limit and you wasted $500 and a point. I bet the cop/ DA was laughing his ass off afterwards because they got more than what they wanted.
1) you were going under the limit
2) no radar
if you had just decided to go through with it, they would have had a hard time making their case with no evidence. If they got no proof of your speed and especially when you speed is so low, the judge will not rule in the officer's favor. If the officer had a radar it would be an automatic loss however.
I'm an ex-cop remember!

Your lawyer is a damn idiot too or probably didn't want to waste his time gettin the ticket dropped since he got paid already.
You should have just fought the ticket like the good majority told you to.