Hotchkis Comp or Street Sway Bars

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

I'm about to order either or. The thing that concerns me the most is which to get. i want my car to handle a LOT better than stock so I can corner more aggressively. Hotchkis recommends only race tires with t here Comp sway bars. I'm using BF Goodridge T/A Sport in the stock size. I dont want that much oversteer, dont want to loose control of the car. Which is safer and which is better for just regular street driving. The only handling scenerios I can think to expect is just swerving in and out of rush hour traffic and high speed turning on some 'race' weekend events at a local paved oval track.

Currently running Eibach sportline springs with stock struts. Upgrade to Koni yellows in near future.

I'm not looking for 1g performance more like .90g performance

[Blue Bomber]

You don't need better tires for the Comps, only a bit more common sense. ;) They alter the car's balance, so you'll have to relearn the way the car responds before you push the suspension to the limits (where the oversteer occurs). BTW, you'll get at least .90G from the sways. A stock Celica can hit .89. :) Slalom numbers are what you should be more concerned with, and the Comps make the car a lot more tossable. :thumbup:

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

No if you were to make a decsion which would u get blue?

[Throttle]

I personally hate the understeer my car has with the TRD sways installed. I would much rather have oversteer than understeer because you can control the oversteer by counter steering. When the car understeers there is not much you can do besides let off the gas until the tires grip again.

I just order the Hotchkis Comp sways from Bottle at Titanmotorsports for $225 shipped. I will be running these with my Tein SS-P's w/EDFC on 225/40/18 Goodyear Eagle F1's.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by Throttle
I would much rather have oversteer than understeer because you can control the oversteer by counter steering. When the car understeers there is not much you can do besides let off the gas until the tires grip again.Exactly. :thumbup:Originally posted by Throttle
my Tein SS-P's w/EDFCDid you have these installed with the TRD sways? If so, did you try to tune out the understeer with the coilovers before you decided to get the Comp bars?

[evil eye]

:werd: I just ordered the Hotchkis comp sways from Bottle too. And I plan to get the TEIN SS-P's come spring time.

[hephaestus]

You people better understand what you are getting in for and I'm sure some here know.
For just driving on crappy streets the street bars are more than enough.
If you plan on goin to the track ever so often then get the comps. Compare the stiffness of those bars not to each other, but to stock and you tell me.
Just to put it into perspective. I'm having major suspension related problems. The front of my car feels like it's lacking a front sway bar. Complete and utter oversteer. I push my car around a turn and wow it's fantastic. I push my car around another turn on the same road and s$$t, some little bump or some gravel will make the end go way out.
I don't wan't to have to worry about that on the streets. Understeer is the way to go for street driving.

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by hephaestus
Just to put it into perspective. I'm having major suspension related problems. The front of my car feels like it's lacking a front sway bar. Complete and utter oversteer. I push my car around a turn and wow it's fantastic. I push my car around another turn on the same road and s$$t, some little bump or some gravel will make the end go way out.
I don't wan't to have to worry about that on the streets. Understeer is the way to go for street driving. Sounds closer to what my car was like with only an ST rear bar and a stock front (though still worse). With a Hotchkis front bar on soft, the car becomes much more stable, and only oversteers at the limit. The Comp setup doesn't turn the car into a drift-machine-wanna-be or anything. ;)

What settings are your struts at? How low do you have the front and rear set to? What are your tire pressures? How's your alignment? Any of these can have a major effect on handling and car balance, and should definitely be looked into if you're getting that much oversteer and don't want it.

[hephaestus]

My tire pressure, alignment, front to rear damper settings, and ride height front to rear ( close to recommended settings) would invoke a bit of oversteer or cancel out most understeer. The sway bar in the front feels like it's missing and the oversteer is great.
You're missing the point. I could stiffen every thing on my car, give it amazing tires, and give it oversteer and grip.
I don't drive text book or on a relatively smooth surface with no debris like a track.
On the streets any little bump, patch of gravel, a little oil, pot hole, tramline or a change in road dimensions will effect your car especially around a turn going fast.
Hit a slight bump with the back wheels going 50 MPH over the speed limit around a turn and you will see how much better making the back of the car 100% + stiffer than stock is.
I think with the oversteer implemented with the comp bars added and with the public roads, it's more than easy to lose control of a Celica. That's why I opt for the slight understeer. For a street driver the street bars are more than enough.
It's not a matter of getting use to the oversteer, that's easy.
It's a matter of are you really going to go that fast and if you are going that fast where you need the oversteer are you prepaired? A dip in the road or an unexpected bump around a turn or even an unexpected turn will throw "you" more off than understeer me even if you are use to it and I will go faster around that turn.
This is on the streets only and my resoning.

[PhReEk]

^^^
this makes me wonder about my choice... i've had my celi's back end swing out a bit on more than one occasion on a clean smooth street at about 50 MPH on a hard right, which is followed by a harder left...
to be quite honest is scared the **** out of me because i couldn't set up for the next turn, and when i tried to pull left, then it understeered... figures
and all this in stock form...

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by PhReEk
i've had my celi's back end swing out a bit on more than one occasion on a clean smooth street at about 50 MPH on a hard right, which is followed by a harder left...
to be quite honest is scared the **** out of me because i couldn't set up for the next turn, and when i tried to pull left, then it understeered... figures
and all this in stock form... Did you let off the gas or step on the brakes on that right turn? What was the road surface like?

[PhReEk]

not at all, possibly slightly damp as it was on my way to work ~9 am on a summer morning (so sun had been out for quite some time, and it was quite warm) but i spose there could have been dew on the ground?

[shrumdude]

The competition swaybar is a monster compared to the puny little stock sway. :bowdown:

[Throttle]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Exactly. :thumbup:Did you have these installed with the TRD sways? If so, did you try to tune out the understeer with the coilovers before you decided to get the Comp bars?

Yes, I have the TRD sways on now with the Tein SS-P's. My front TRD sway is rubbing the frame so I am swapping them for the Comp sways.

I just put the coilovers on before I parked the car for the winter so I didn't get a chance to properly tune the suspension. I just know I had too much oversteer for my driving style with my old setup so I am upgrading my suspension.

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

So blue, you would go for the Comps over the Streets?

1 more ? how easy is it to oversteer with the comps- do you have to really turn and swing the car or just slightly turn goin into a corner and u start feeling the oversteer

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by GTSDOHCVVTLi
So blue, you would go for the Comps over the Streets?I've got a setup equivalent to the Comps, the Hotchkis front bar set on soft (same between Street and Comp) and the ST rear sway bar (same stiffness as Comp). I definitely wouldn't go back to a softer rear bar.Originally posted by GTSDOHCVVTLi
1 more ? how easy is it to oversteer with the comps- do you have to really turn and swing the car or just slightly turn goin into a corner and u start feeling the oversteer The way I drive, oversteer usually comes at the limit of traction, depending on throttle/brake input. It comes on progressively (though that probably has more to do with my tires than the bars), so it's easy to control, and to prevent if not wanted. Since the suspension and chassis of the Celica are so communicative, you'll be able to feel the oversteer occuring through your seat.

Haven't had the opportunity to try purposely oversteering, but it will be easier than stock. Just lift off the gas quickly or step on the brakes in the middle of a turn and the rear should kick out nice and wide. Not a good idea to try this on public streets, though (even with the stock bars) , since it's definitely dangerous.

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

Sweet, I was just worried the oversteer was unpredictable and u didnt know when to expect it. But if it can be controlled and you know when and determine when the oversteer occurs, then I'm gonna place an order for the Comps right know. That was just my biggest worry.

Thanks Blue

[evil eye]

Yeah, besides, it's not as if the Celica is RWD. It's not going to give you the opportunity to spin out all unpredictable like, IMO.

So long as you're not driving like the cops are on your ass. :)

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

I'm running on Eibach sportline springs(1.8 front, 2.4 rear drop). Do I need endlinks if I have the front set on the soft settting?

[Throttle]

Originally posted by GTSDOHCVVTLi
I'm running on Eibach sportline springs(1.8 front, 2.4 rear drop). Do I need endlinks if I have the front set on the soft settting?

The stiffness of the dampner doesn't matter.

Adjustable endlinks are used to reposition the sway bar back to its original position so you do not create any preload on the sway bar. Since you have lowered the car you will need to shorten the endlinks to raise the sway bar.

[GTSDOHCVVTLi]

I meant if I kept the front sway bar on the soft setting.

[Blue Bomber]

Doesn't matter. The settings won't affect the angle of the sway bar enough to align it properly and get rid of the preloading.