F/I and the ECU

[Da Kine Guy]

Just wondering if the ECU accomodates for the added air flow a F/I setup generates by adding more gas to the mixture. That's all :)

[larryd]

no one knows yet..

[atehrani]

My guess would be no. I asked a similar question in the Mods forum, but no one gave me an intelligent answer.

The Celica needs a stand-alone engine management system. Such as the ones offered by Apexi and AEM.

[bug killa]

isn't the blitz s/c coming w/ a new ecu?

[celi GT-S]

Most vehicles are equipped with the OBD 2 computer program. The program always adjusts the air/fuel mixture to 14.7:1.

[t2000gts]

i think the stock setup can suffice up to a point...but you'd hit the limitations of the fuel system first. and you should get a stand alone system anyway cuz it's easier to tune.

[larryd]

Originally posted by bug killa
isn't the blitz s/c coming w/ a new ecu?

yes it is,,

[HisFrogness]

I think T2000 is right. If you read the thread that CelicaUK started about his already installed S/C, someone asked if the ecu/fi kept up. He couldn't rev past 4K for 1000 miles due to new cylinders, but it kept up that far.

[FL Honda Stompr]

Has anyone tried to install a HALTECH ECU in a celica?

[yellowspy]

The Power Enterprise turbo system comes with a boost sensitve pressure regulator. Basically the car only needs more fuel under boost and the ECU/injectors will handle it fine up to 9psi (over it and you need a S-AFC) The PE kit includes a spring that goes in the fuel reg assembly, you need to drill a larger hole in the regulator too and when under boost the spring pushes the reg open enought to suck enough fuel that the ECU says is needed and the injectors will provide.

[Keyshawn]

yellowspy,
That sounds like a similar setup to what Turbo Performance is planning with the Celicas, except they upgrade to bigger fuel injectors. They also don't touch the ECU or include any electronics like the S-AFC. Supposedly, the Celica doesn't need stand-alone engine management until we try to boost double-digit psi. It would be great to have that option eventually, though. Has that pressure regulator setup been working well for you so far? Do you have pics and dynos with your turbo system. Thanks for the info.

[yellowspy]

Check out spyderchat and look for all of the post by Jonvolk, Robthegr8, and Joel. Rob is running 8psi, rich mixture, new clutch and lightwt flywheel-- his best 0-60 was like 4.5 seconds! his avatar shows his gtech reading!!!

The set-up is awesome so far. I have killed 2 mustangs (one older modified and a new stock, both GT) 3 Camaros the big V8 babies (two old and one newer Z28)

[t2000gts]

turbo MR2 Spyders = ****ing sick :)

[FL Honda Stompr]

Has anyone heard about Gredd'ys new piggy back fuel system? its like an AFC but runs off a laptop and it allows to adjust fuel at 16 points in the rev range and you can adjust timing and some other things including VTEC (in case there are any honda guys reading this)

[larryd]

ive read about that on my DSM board.. lots of people are very interested in it.. only problem so far is the software that will allow you to tune is will not be sold to the public at first.. only to participating dealers.. so only those places would be able to tune yer car

[t2000gts]

all we need is someone to swipe the software and put it up online on the internet.

greddy should know better. :)

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by FL Honda Stompr
Has anyone heard about Gredd'ys new piggy back fuel system? its like an AFC but runs off a laptop and it allows to adjust fuel at 16 points in the rev range and you can adjust timing and some other things including VTEC (in case there are any honda guys reading this)

Could be interesting for n/a tuning or turbo/sc tuning. It's called the E-Manage. Check this thread for info: http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=184550#post184550

[celicauk]

Originally posted by FL Honda Stompr
Has anyone tried to install a HALTECH ECU in a celica?

Currently doing this, the wiring is all done, now I just need to get the ignition and fuel maps setup, I'll be starting on this from today. Note that I have replaced the stock coil packs with the Haltech ECU dwell control ignitor and twin dual coil packs, this is because the Toyota units have proved unreliable. Sret me back a couple of weeks that one.

Originally posted by HisFrogginess
I think T2000 is right. If you read the thread that CelicaUK started about his already installed S/C, someone asked if the ecu/fi kept up. He couldn't rev past 4K for 1000 miles due to new cylinders, but it kept up that far.


This is fairly close, I had to run the engine in for 1000miles as you say, I then found that the engine wouldn't go lean until I hit about 5500rpm, it would also lean out at WOT so the open loop maps are no good at all. There is no way the car was producing as much as it could from the stock ECU maps, the standard programming just couldn't adjust to the new air intake. Also the MAF sensor is not in the right place to allow it to meter correctly, it needs to be relocated to just before the throttle body for an effective reading, tried this too and the sensor just isn't up to it.

I have a few questions to ask of Toyota but if any of you know the answers then let me know.

1: Angle BTDC for the crank trigger. I have it set to 30 degrees which gives a stable reading on the RPM counter in the Haltech unit, I'm just not convinced its spot on.
2: Ignition advance on idle.
3: Ignition advance on vacuum.
4: Ignition advance at full load.

These will allow me to auto create the ignition maps and save a lot of manual mucking about. Once I have the maps they will be freely available to everyone, as will the install instructions.

Cheers

[Rizzo2kGTS]

celica uk i think i love you :)

[FL Honda Stompr]

Originally posted by celicauk


This is fairly close, I had to run the engine in for 1000miles as you say, I then found that the engine wouldn't go lean until I hit about 5500rpm, it would also lean out at WOT so the open loop maps are no good at all. There is no way the car was producing as much as it could from the stock ECU maps, the standard programming just couldn't adjust to the new air intake. Also the MAF sensor is not in the right place to allow it to meter correctly, it needs to be relocated to just before the throttle body for an effective reading, tried this too and the sensor just isn't up to it.

I have a few questions to ask of Toyota but if any of you know the answers then let me know.

1: Angle BTDC for the crank trigger. I have it set to 30 degrees which gives a stable reading on the RPM counter in the Haltech unit, I'm just not convinced its spot on.
2: Ignition advance on idle.
3: Ignition advance on vacuum.
4: Ignition advance at full load.

These will allow me to auto create the ignition maps and save a lot of manual mucking about. Once I have the maps they will be freely available to everyone, as will the install instructions.

Cheers

Could you just throw on some bigger fuel injectors and solve the problem?

[FL Honda Stompr]

oh and i went to the summit import nationals at Gainsville yesterday and i talked with a technician at AEM, they said that the Universal engine management system is gonna cost 2240$, it hasnt been released because they are low in stock on the wiring harness, he said it will allow us to totally remodle our returnless system into a return system, i dont see how not having a returnline affects our cars? anyone care to explain?

[larryd]

returnless fuel system makes it harder to run forced induction systems... but 2240 is absolutely rediculous..

[FL Honda Stompr]

Originally posted by larryd
returnless fuel system makes it harder to run forced induction systems...

But why?

[GTS LAID]

The stock ECU has 2 mechanisms for A/F correction, short term and long term... if the long term correction is more than 28% (dont ask me why 28%) off of the stock charts in the ROM, it throughs a CEL code... it can do short term compensation too up to that much but it again reverts to a long term CEL code if it senses an increase all the time...

if your evap lines arent plugged in correctly into a CAI for example, it can throw off those codes for the same reason.. except in the EVAP case its cause of repressurizing of the hoses.

[FL Honda Stompr]

okay, thats good to know, cuz i didnt know that, but you didnt answer my question.

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by FL Honda Stompr
okay, thats good to know, cuz i didnt know that, but you didnt answer my question.

i was answering the question above... i know nothing about returnless fuel systems and returnfull fuel systems :)

[celicauk]

Originally posted by FL Honda Stompr


Could you just throw on some bigger fuel injectors and solve the problem?

Unfortunately not, the ECU would need to be reprogrammed for different advance curves anyway to make full use of the FI system, I suspect it would get way out of tolerance very quickly and throw a CEL, possibly even go into limp mode.


As for why a returnless system makes it harder, well I think its down to the method of tuning. If you have a return line system then you get a fuel regulator with a manifold pressure link which automatically maintains the correct fuel pressure for a given load. Without this you have to be really precise on the fuel injector timing, ensure that the open time is spot on for the fuel pressure in use and the fuel delivery required. This means ensuring that the on/off duty cycle of the injector is critical to getting the mixture absolutely correct assuming a constant fuel pressure.

[FL Honda Stompr]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
The stock ECU has 2 mechanisms for A/F correction, short term and long term... if the long term correction is more than 28% (dont ask me why 28%) off of the stock charts in the ROM, it throughs a CEL code... it can do short term compensation too up to that much but it again reverts to a long term CEL code if it senses an increase all the time...

if your evap lines arent plugged in correctly into a CAI for example, it can throw off those codes for the same reason.. except in the EVAP case its cause of repressurizing of the hoses.

Is a CAI and exhaust more than 28%? am i running lean?

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by FL Honda Stompr


Is a CAI and exhaust more than 28%? am i running lean?

you'd get a CEL if you were running 28% or more in long term banks... as for short term... if it happens sporadically the ECU will correct and keep it on the D/L. You'll need the SAFC when the ECU can no longer make little adjustments as it does.

[FL Honda Stompr]

well my ecu seems to come on when the outside temperature change dramatically, but it will go off after a few hours, im guessing it needs to adjust to the new temp. Also, i have another question. how many piggy back things can you run at a time? like can i run a S-AFC and a Greddy piggy back?