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View Full Version : Any problem yet with bad PFC tuning??

danGTS
03-11-2005, 08:20 PM
Hi,

I now have a shop that is interested in tuning PFCs for celicas. hE has no experience with those toys. However, he knows well the AEM engine management and has a dyno. I'm planning on buying the datalogit software with the maps from monkeywrench. He is willing to learn the software and tune the car with some base maps ..

My question is .. Did anyone here had any trouble with bad tuning of PFCs?? Like mechanical problems or blown engine .. Since this shop never tuned the apexi PFC, I'm not all that confident!! Especially since last September .. I dont want to broke another engine ya know .. Damn pulleys ...

Also, if I just use the commander as a meter, I should be able to know if anything goes wrong before it actually hurts, right??

Any advices are appreciated!!

Thank you all!!
00silverGTS6spd
03-11-2005, 10:47 PM
you can completely kill the motor if you're not careful. so far I have only heard of 1 bad story of poor tuning and it involved somebody messing with the VVT too much and bending some valves. this was a member of e-celica. he had done something like you are talkin about doing lol.

although if he's respectful of the car he should have no problems. we tune ours ourselves without any previous tuning experience and have had nothing but great results.

make sure he doesnt just hop on it and expect to pull out 50 hp with timing adjustments and stuff and you should be good to go lol
00silverGTS6spd
03-11-2005, 10:48 PM
and on a side note: will be great too see you back out at the track with the PFC. should have some good results. :)
celicarida
03-12-2005, 12:18 AM
Dont jump into vvti i think at first. See how he does tuning ur air fuel first.
Im in the same boat as you are but currently am waiting for the datalogit to get off backorder.
00silverGTS6spd
03-12-2005, 02:03 AM
the a/f is easy. vvti works in both directions lol
danGTS
03-12-2005, 07:30 AM
What do you meen "work in both directions"?

As for vvti .. how do we have to tune it?? any advices?? Like, move it by little amount at tthe time, monitor knock or anything .. (I'm newbie regarding engine management!!)
Torqued
03-12-2005, 09:50 AM
Matt at MWR has said numerous times that the VVTi has been optimized fairly well useing hours of dyno time. Based on my results I think he is right. If the A/F and timing are tuned, I really don't think there is major gains to be made tuning the VVTi unless something in the car is set up near or out of spec.
celicarida
03-12-2005, 11:25 AM
So your sayin the base map has a good vvti setup already?
Smaay
03-12-2005, 10:04 PM
***edited ****
many
03-13-2005, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Smaay
***edited ****
????
Illusive
03-13-2005, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Smaay
***edited ****

i was logged onto smaay's computer and posted something, and edited it out.

sorry.
Oli
03-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Torqued
Matt at MWR has said numerous times that the VVTi has been optimized fairly well useing hours of dyno time. Based on my results I think he is right. If the A/F and timing are tuned, I really don't think there is major gains to be made tuning the VVTi unless something in the car is set up near or out of spec.

The A/F will vary on every car. Mine ran lean in the low end on the MWR base map..
00silverGTS6spd
03-13-2005, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Torqued
Matt at MWR has said numerous times that the VVTi has been optimized fairly well useing hours of dyno time. Based on my results I think he is right. If the A/F and timing are tuned, I really don't think there is major gains to be made tuning the VVTi unless something in the car is set up near or out of spec.

thier map is not that bad but you gotta remember that matt is selling that map with his power fc so of course he's gonna spin it as god's gift to tuning.
their map is really good for a base map but it's just that. a base map.

playing with the VVT is how we picked up more hp and quite a bit more torque over the mwr base map.
I started at 172 whp, 125wtq and ended up 185 whp and 136 wtq

my a/f before tuning was around 12.8's across the board and after it was around 13.0 and much cleaner line. that didnt result in much if any gains. and in most of the top end we ended up retarding the timing a bit.
celicarida
03-13-2005, 05:12 PM
but isnt a tuned powerfc alot faster than the basemap up top.

Vvt is that the variable valve timing so do you jus adjust at 6000+?
danGTS
03-13-2005, 11:11 PM
Nobody wants to get more in detail on the tip "how to tune properly the VVTi" apparently.

It's OK, I understand nobody wants to be responsible for engine damages ..
00silverGTS6spd
03-13-2005, 11:24 PM
you want to tune it in very small increments. somtimes you'll be increasing the numbers and somtimes you'll be lowering it. each car reacts a bit different so it's hard to spell it out specifically.
danGTS
03-14-2005, 05:54 AM
thx Mike!!
Illusive
03-14-2005, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by danGTS
Nobody wants to get more in detail on the tip "how to tune properly the VVTi" apparently.

It's OK, I understand nobody wants to be responsible for engine damages ..

i'm pretty sure i've posted several times in this specific forum some suggestions for tuning vvt dan

i'm too lazy to search for it for you :)
celicarida
03-14-2005, 09:34 AM
Posted by illusive

then start work on the vvt, you want to do ONE point at a time, per pull, and try going +5 or -5, which ever way makes power, then let the car rest for a few min and do another pull for consistancy, once you find a direction that makes power, then continue to move in that direction until it doesn't, keep an eye on your knock index the whole time while playing with vvt, from my experience too much causes quite a bit of knock.



But what part of the map do you tune vvti is it from idle all the way to 8500?
Oli
03-14-2005, 11:03 AM
tune any part of the map you use then smooth the map off and dyno it again to check for any extra knock from the smoothing.
danGTS
03-14-2005, 05:53 PM
Thanks Illusive, I'll do it ..


Originally posted by Oli
tune any part of the map you use then smooth the map off and dyno it again to check for any extra knock from the smoothing.

Smoothing?? You mean by playing with vvti or air/fuel ratio?? Cause I assume playing with vvti might have some impact on the A/F ratio ..
Illusive
03-14-2005, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by danGTS
Thanks Illusive, I'll do it ..




Smoothing?? You mean by playing with vvti or air/fuel ratio?? Cause I assume playing with vvti might have some impact on the A/F ratio ..

he means not having any radical changes from one cell to another, its very common to do when tuning air fuel, it keeps a more steady line

same goes for vvt too radical and the vvt may not beable to actually advance/retard timing fast enough.
celicarida
03-14-2005, 10:53 PM
so do u tune vvt from idle to redline?
Oli
03-15-2005, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by celicarida
so do u tune vvt from idle to redline?

You tune any cell you use. 500rpm - 8500rpm normally.
SoCalCeli
03-30-2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by 00silverGTS6spd
thier map is not that bad but you gotta remember that matt is selling that map with his power fc so of course he's gonna spin it as god's gift to tuning.
their map is really good for a base map but it's just that. a base map.

playing with the VVT is how we picked up more hp and quite a bit more torque over the mwr base map.
I started at 172 whp, 125wtq and ended up 185 whp and 136 wtq

my a/f before tuning was around 12.8's across the board and after it was around 13.0 and much cleaner line. that didnt result in much if any gains. and in most of the top end we ended up retarding the timing a bit.

So what sort of differences did you pick up over setting the A/F and ignition timing? Once these are set I would imagine the gains would be minimal just tuning the VVT, but maybe not.