The 2000-up Celica's Reliability: How Accurate Is Consumer Reports?

[Keyshawn]

There's been A LOT of debate about how reliable the 2000-up Celicas are. Many people here have questioned the car's reliability, whether it be body rattles, weak synchros in the tranny, or weak engines. However, according to the April 2002 Consumer Reports Auto Issue, the Celica receives among the highest marks of any car in terms of reliability. CR reports less than 2% of people having reliability problems with the 2000-2001 Celica, excelling in almost every category including the engine and tranny.

My question is this: How accurate is the information in Consumer Reports? Should we accept the accuracy of CR's stats, or should we pay more attention to reports we get from the Celi-owners on this board? Just curious what everyone else thought.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

well keyshawn, remember this. People that have had trouble on this board mod their cars. Of course you are gonna have more rattles when you beat the piss outta the thing and make it corner harder than it was meant to. Another thing is that the whole misshift deal is driver error.

If everyone did the reccommended steps in maintaining the car (mmaintenance at certain mileage etc) then they will probably see very few problems, especially if the car is left stock. I think the reviews are accurate for someone who plans to leave the car stock, which is 99% of the people who buy one.

[TheX-Man]

Well, consumer reports is normally acurate in their info, but compared to this site, most people are performance enthusist so they mod the car. My guess is that the average celica buyer bought the car for looks and not for performance. I wonder who all had problems with their non-moded car, never went to the track, car.

Great news for toyota though.

[The Wok]

The population represented from an enthusiast's website will give you a pretty small and one-sided cross-section; one that likes to drive the snot outta their cars. And even from this "sample," many of us have had little/no probs with our Celicas. So this 2% of owners having reliability problems seems accurate.

[QWKsilvr808]

I don't think consumer reports tests the reliabilty of modded, occasionally track driven, 8200 rpm quick-shifted cars. I'm sure a stock GT-S driven normally with perhaps a little gusto is just as reliable as they say it is. If you're gonna drive the car hard, expect to have a few problems down the line. That should be expected with ANY car. The only problems I've had so far has been the belt tensioner and a faulty factory battery, and that was fixed fairly easily.

Other than that, every time I've jumped in the car for a year and a half she's started right up and taken me from point A to point B with no problems or drama.

Once you start racing it, launching it, or powershifting it, forget everything you know about reliability. Toyota did their part in putting out a great street car straight from the factory. The guys who do write-ups for Consumer Reports don't give a rat's ass about us aftermarket performace freaks. ;)

[ringthree]

Also keep in mind that this site is NOT representative of the general public. There will be more problems here than in the "real world" because of the age and type of driver that would come to this board. We are the perverbial drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the Celica world.

Also I believe some of CR's stats are obtained through subscribers. I think I'm probably the only one here that has subscribed to CR ;)

[GReddy Celica]

Honestly, for the most part Celicas are very reliable. Just think how many members are on this board and about maybe half of those people have had significant problems(engine/tranny not necesarily due to factory part failure, maybe poor driving, etc...)Other than that, most Celicas out there just go to the dealership for routine maitenance. Remember were just a handful compared to all the people who own celicas. Im not saying one or the other, but Consumer Reports is a very reliable source, they survey and do all kinds of things do get the most accurate info. I think the main problems/issue with the celica are with those who modify it and then race it, possibly misshifting or overreving it out of factory secifications. If you keep the car stock, trust me, it will not suddenly break down, besides Toyota has been more than helpful with covering misshifts=stupid drive errors uder warranty. Im not trying to favor the celica here but I have a few bolt ons, occasionaly race and my car is rock solid, runs great, I know others have had other probelms though.

[xav3x]

yea i only have injen cai but it runs fine.. i love it.. accidents make ur car go bad tho... >:T

[Keyshawn]

Hmmm....if blown engines from misshifts are an "enthusiast's problem", and we enthusiasts are such an insignificant percentage of the Celica population, then why did Toyota deem it necessary to change the rev-limit on the GT-S? It's strange that Toyota ignores us as far as giving us products we want, yet pays close attention to the few misshifts enough to change the ECU on ALL 2002s. I mean, if misshift-related problems were that common, wouldn't they show up in Consumer Reports' reliability data?

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Hmmm....if blown engines from misshifts are an "enthusiast's problem", and we enthusiasts are such an insignificant percentage of the Celica population, then why did Toyota deem it necessary to change the rev-limit on the GT-S? It's strange that Toyota ignores us as far as giving us products we want, yet pays close attention to the few misshifts enough to change the ECU on ALL 2002s. I mean, if misshift-related problems were that common, wouldn't they show up in Consumer Reports' reliability data?

This is another part of money making :) They lost a good bit of money replacing the trannies. They also probably got some negative feedback about people misshifting. So what do they do? They convince the ignorant ones that since they lowered the rev limiter it will prevent misshifts. This person takes that bait, and buys the car, not thinking for a moment that had they misshifted at 7800, the car "only" revs to 12K instead of 13K. Either way, you are fawked.

[Kit99bar]

The only problems you hear of are people racing their GTS 6spd and misshifting. or CAI cel

what % of celicas have a 6spd or a CAI?

[NSX_GTR_LM]

and as for that not showing up in CR, its driver error, not a reliabilty issue. Toyota was just nice enough to cover it. They set a precedent by covering the first few, and now are almost obligated to cover the rest (since they covered the others, why wont they cover mine kind of thing).

[GReddy Celica]

Yes, Toyota did determine it was necessary to change the rev limiter just because more than one could be a bigger problem. Another thing is, everytime Toyota replaces an engine they loose money, no matter what, it adds up, so to prevent any other problems, they just lowered the rev limiter even though it really isnt that many people blowing engines, its just a precaution, becuase if you know how to drive well and carefully, you should not have any problems, and its not even those who mod their cars, ask around, most engines are blown racing, finding the wrong gear. Also keep in mind that Toyota also revised the shift gates on the six speeds, so 2002's should really not have any misshift problems.

[racinjason]

The reason is because those misshifts are a big expense!! Each and everyone. And those misshifts rack up some big expenses, even if it's a couple hundred misshifts. Which if you count the thousands of dollars each mishap costs for Toyota. It can go into the millions. Even though lowering a rev limiter doesn't solve the problem in any remote way. Misshift problems have nothing to do with reliability. Your car could be the most reliable piece of transportation know to man but if you stick it in the wrong gear and over rev it, she's gonna blow! Giving out products that a small amount of owners want also has nothing to do with reliability either. Also Misshifts aren't that common. Just on boards like this. And even here is has happened to less than 1% of the members here.

[racinjason]

Also reliability = quality and lasting of a part or machine etc. under normal circumstances and proper use. Most people do not mod thier Celicas and most do not race them as hard as many of us. You can not expect Toyota or any car company to add in complaints or problems with a car concerning mods or racing at drag strips or autocrosses etc.

[Keyshawn]

Very good point. Misshifts are expensive for Toyota, even if they are relatively rare. I agree that it is driver error, not a reliability problem. However, do you guys think Toyota and CR would consider those same problems reliability issues, since Toyota covers them under warranty?

[GReddy Celica]

No, I dont think so. I just think Toyota is doing this because they feel its their responsibility to do so, even though it might not be their product failing. Remember, Toyota/Lexus is #1 in customer satisfaction, vehicle reliability, built quality, and fewest problems, they are always winning awards by JD Power and other reputable companies. I think they just feel its necessary to preserve that image everyone has about Toyota, because that is probably the one main reasons people buy their cars, reliability.

[autxr]

Consumer reports gets their reliability numbers from SUBSCRIBER surveys. Do you subscribe? if not, then you didn't get the survey in the mail.

I do subscribe, i'm an enthusiast, I beat the pee out of my Celica (2-3 autocross events per month...). I'll fill out my survey this year and you know what I'll tell them?

45,000 trouble free miles, because that's what it is.

Deductions for a tear in the leather seat (warranty covered it), possible deduction for the foggy headlamp (under warranty).

Other problems? Tranny, engine? None. My belt tensioner might be going, and ever since the car was in a wreck the auto locks haven't been working right - I can't fault Toyota for that (I'm suspecting a weak batter based on how it barely starts the car).

Scott

[donkeyponkey]

I think CR is right on the money. I've always looked at there auto issue report and they are pretty right on about reliability, especially on used cars. Most of the imports have best reliability and a very few domestics. I think alot of people read it when purchasing a new car because they do alot of research.

[2000 XYR]

I had no problems with my GT-S auto. But my 6-speed has $4000 of warranty work done within a month:

- new clutch
- new throwout bearing
- new pressure plate
- new front transaxle

But no squeaks or rattles in either of them. No breakdowns. Nothing stopped working.

[larryd]

i personally think the car would have no problems if you left it stock and didnt beat on the car constantly.. I mean everycar is going to have problems if you abuse it constantly.. but the thing is how many problems are ok?? the synchros are definitely junk, the engine has some issues and well almost every car I know rattles inside once you change the suspension

[2000 XYR]

Mine were both 100% stock except for a K&N filter. I never street raced and only shifted above redline a handful of times. BUT the 6-speed was used so who knows. It shouldn't have needed all that work at 17,000 miles.

[Jnsd]

my car's been nothing but problems. almost 10K worth of warrenty work done to my car, and I drive it like a grandma most of the time...

on the other hand some people beat the crap out of their cars every day and have zero problems....go figure

[daSchtick]

Originally posted by larryd
i personally think the car would have no problems if you left it stock and didnt beat on the car constantly..

I'm with you on that. I've modified plenty of cars in the past, and with every modification, it seems something is lost. I've kept my mods to a minimum, as I do not want to sacrafice reliability or drivability anymore, especially when I am extremely satisfied with the car as it is. Heck, I won't even do a CAI, because I don't want to deal with random CELs, dirty/damaged MAFs, possible engine damage due to a lean condition, warranty disputes, and emissions testing hassles. In fact, when it comes time to replace the air filter, I probably stick with the OEM one! BTW, the only mods I have done to my car is the addition of the TRD exhaust, which is backed by Toyota, and red epoxy on my brake calipers.

The only MANUFACTURER reliability issue that I see happening on many cars is the belt tensioner issue, and Toyota has a TSB for this. Other than that, if the car is kept relatively stock, and driven PROPERLY (that is, it can be run hard, but you need to be careful with the clutch and transmission - 8200 is a lot of rpm), it should prove relatively trouble-free, as mine has for almost 2 years.

[t2000gts]

also keep in mind, the CR guys probably DO drive the car "hard" to 8000+rpm. nearly every magazine reviewer has said you have to drive around with the car at high revs for any power. and that's crazy, i never do that. i keep it under 3000rpm for normal driving and i'm still leaving everyone at lights, but there you go. you got mag guys complaining they have to rev so high, so i guess that means they are revving high.

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by daSchtick


I'm with you on that. I've modified plenty of cars in the past, and with every modification, it seems something is lost. I've kept my mods to a minimum, as I do not want to sacrafice reliability or drivability anymore, especially when I am extremely satisfied with the car as it is. Heck, I won't even do a CAI, because I don't want to deal with random CELs, dirty/damaged MAFs, possible engine damage due to a lean condition, warranty disputes, and emissions testing hassles. In fact, when it comes time to replace the air filter, I probably stick with the OEM one! BTW, the only mods I have done to my car is the addition of the TRD exhaust, which is backed by Toyota, and red epoxy on my brake calipers.

The only MANUFACTURER reliability issue that I see happening on many cars is the belt tensioner issue, and Toyota has a TSB for this. Other than that, if the car is kept relatively stock, and driven PROPERLY (that is, it can be run hard, but you need to be careful with the clutch and transmission - 8200 is a lot of rpm), it should prove relatively trouble-free, as mine has for almost 2 years.

have a little faith in the engine :)

with a properly installed CAI, you won't have a CEL or a dirty MAF (from oil off the filter, if the filter was oiled properly).

i had water ingested by my CAI about a year and a half ago and i panicked a bit, eventually costing me time and money. all i had to have done was let the car idle a while and evaporate as much as it could, then clean out the intake tube/maf/sensors, pull the plugs and crank it to get out the rest of the water, maybe spray some cleaner down into there and then just flush the engine/tranny. that's what my mechanic did, and it started up like nothing was wrong. before this it was misfiring in all 4 cylinders...anyway, the engine probably isn't the same since (my exhaust system is still rusted to hell and back) but it's strong enough, i trapped 85mph in the quarter, and i drive a GTS auto. keep in mind, i powerbrake a lot and abuse my tranny, and the water was in the tranny too.

just a few weeks ago we had HEAVY rain, literally every drop falling you could hear, and my dad of all people (who doesn't know about the cai) had to borrow my car for work while his was at the mechanic. he said he just avoided small roads and sticked to major roads and avoided as many puddles as he could see (not all of them), and he didn't get any water in. you have to literally splash a bucket load of water on the entire filter suddenly to have it suck up a little bit. to destroy your engine, you need to submerse the filter completely.

[donkeyponkey]

I still don't want to get a cai due to future problems that might go on later and have to deal with those stupid toyota dealerships who don't know squat!

[daSchtick]

Originally posted by t2000gts


have a little faith in the engine :)

with a properly installed CAI, you won't have a CEL or a dirty MAF (from oil off the filter, if the filter was oiled properly).

i had water ingested by my CAI about a year and a half ago and i panicked a bit, eventually costing me time and money. all i had to have done was let the car idle a while and evaporate as much as it could, then clean out the intake tube/maf/sensors, pull the plugs and crank it to get out the rest of the water, maybe spray some cleaner down into there and then just flush the engine/tranny. that's what my mechanic did, and it started up like nothing was wrong. before this it was misfiring in all 4 cylinders...anyway, the engine probably isn't the same since (my exhaust system is still rusted to hell and back) but it's strong enough, i trapped 85mph in the quarter, and i drive a GTS auto. keep in mind, i powerbrake a lot and abuse my tranny, and the water was in the tranny too.

just a few weeks ago we had HEAVY rain, literally every drop falling you could hear, and my dad of all people (who doesn't know about the cai) had to borrow my car for work while his was at the mechanic. he said he just avoided small roads and sticked to major roads and avoided as many puddles as he could see (not all of them), and he didn't get any water in. you have to literally splash a bucket load of water on the entire filter suddenly to have it suck up a little bit. to destroy your engine, you need to submerse the filter completely.

Like I said in my previous post, I do not want to sacrafice reliability or drivability anymore, when I am satisfied with the car as is. Your response sounds like a MAJOR sacrafice. I don't want to have to let the car idle a while and evaporate as much as it could, then clean out the intake tube/maf/sensors, pull the plugs and crank it to get out the rest of the water, maybe spray some cleaner down into there and then just flush the engine/tranny. I'd rather be doing other things with my time. (Ironically, I forgot to mention the added risk of water ingestion in my initial post!) The CAI adds power, but at to what expense of reliability (and when it rains, drivability)?