bubba30mmk
04-04-2005, 02:54 AM
Yesterday I had my good friend CelicaUK visit me and he test drove my car and here is his opinions against his old Supercharged monster and my ST1 C2 Kit (with the original KKK04 Turbo)
Originally posted by celicauk
well as some of you may know, im a bit on the knowledgable side when it comes to modding the Celica having done one or two minor changes meself. With this in mind, an opportunity came up for me to have a run out in Bubbas motor, that'll be the turbo one. Being about the only person I know, who isnt now dead, to of driven a supercharged VVTi, im actually in a good position to do a comparison of the two.
So, here goes.
Well first off the Bubbs took me for a run out, him driving. The car is basically stupidly smooth. For an FI converted motor this car ticks over perfect, is superb on off boost cruise and a bit of an animal when on boost. There is just the sweetest noise of the turbo winding up as it comes on load, and then that is drowned out by the wind noise as everything gets a bit blurry. Back off the throttle and the wastegate chatters away a treat, a sound which is worth way more than the power any day Smile
Now my turn to drive Twisted Evil
Once I finally remembered where the hell reverse is, well its been a while, we were offsky. Pootled along and loaded it up in the gears. Basically it wasnt bothered, you want 30 in 4th gear, well ok you dull git, you have it. I have to say at this point I was very impressed, the engine has perfect manners, I dont have muck about trying to stop it from stalling, it responds to throttle input faultlessly and I dont feel like its going to cut out or fall out at any moment, all these are traits I would normally find in an turbo conversion.
So I got all the restrained bit out of the way, familiarised myself with the car a little and gave it some of the patented lead boot. The turbo spins up so fast, it seems an almost perfect match to the engine. Working through the gears quickly the car pulls strong from a rolling start, no dramas, no popping and farting, no flames and im not even slightly worried that something is going to fall off. Out onto some more open space and a good opportunity to really wind it up. This is were the first fault shows up, after about 5k (kind of guessing as the rev needle didnt really work all that well) the turbo seems to run out of puff, power is constant and doesnt feel like its dropping off but its certainly not pulling any harder, sure the revs will go up eventually but sod it, lets have another gear instead, the boys did fit six of em after all. Once changed, there is no lag to get back on boost, no popping on the over run either so it must be pretty well tuned without being stupidly lairy. By this time im making with the huge grin. A couple of roundabouts and a spot of traffic weaving later and I feel I've found out all I need to know about this car.
So what about the comparison. Well first off, the turbo is going to pull harder from a standstill than the supercharger. the turbo is not as powerful in real terms as far as delivered power is concerned, it definitely does feel as good as the supercharger. When the turbo is at higher revs the power increasse trails off, the supercharger keeps on going to red line and would probably go further. In the defence of the turbo setup, there is a new turbo in the offing. The existing KKK is being replaced by a far more useful Garett item, this I believe will get rid of the power drop off at the top end, it may become a touch laggy low down but I doubt it will matter much.
And still you dont know which to pick. Well to be honest, neither do I. I loved the supercharger, its power delivery is so linear and controllable, you do have to work the gears to make the most of it though, and this is were the turbo seems to be ahead a bit, its a small unit and small amounts of throttle movement spin it up very quickly, this makes its power delivery fasst and snappy, get rid of the top end power drop off using the new turbo and it will be an awesome car. Which one then, well Im thinking its going to have to come down to what sort of system you like. If you want the car to have wastegate chatter then go turbo, if you want it to sound like it may just have a jet engine fitted then go supercharger. In day to day driving I think they will both be pretty equal, for hard running I think the SC will win out as it wont ever trail power off.
For me I think I would still go Supercharger, but then again, I am tempted to get another Celica just so I can have a play with this turbo setup. I am well impressed and look forward to rying the car with the new turbo in place.
Originally posted by celicauk
well as some of you may know, im a bit on the knowledgable side when it comes to modding the Celica having done one or two minor changes meself. With this in mind, an opportunity came up for me to have a run out in Bubbas motor, that'll be the turbo one. Being about the only person I know, who isnt now dead, to of driven a supercharged VVTi, im actually in a good position to do a comparison of the two.
So, here goes.
Well first off the Bubbs took me for a run out, him driving. The car is basically stupidly smooth. For an FI converted motor this car ticks over perfect, is superb on off boost cruise and a bit of an animal when on boost. There is just the sweetest noise of the turbo winding up as it comes on load, and then that is drowned out by the wind noise as everything gets a bit blurry. Back off the throttle and the wastegate chatters away a treat, a sound which is worth way more than the power any day Smile
Now my turn to drive Twisted Evil
Once I finally remembered where the hell reverse is, well its been a while, we were offsky. Pootled along and loaded it up in the gears. Basically it wasnt bothered, you want 30 in 4th gear, well ok you dull git, you have it. I have to say at this point I was very impressed, the engine has perfect manners, I dont have muck about trying to stop it from stalling, it responds to throttle input faultlessly and I dont feel like its going to cut out or fall out at any moment, all these are traits I would normally find in an turbo conversion.
So I got all the restrained bit out of the way, familiarised myself with the car a little and gave it some of the patented lead boot. The turbo spins up so fast, it seems an almost perfect match to the engine. Working through the gears quickly the car pulls strong from a rolling start, no dramas, no popping and farting, no flames and im not even slightly worried that something is going to fall off. Out onto some more open space and a good opportunity to really wind it up. This is were the first fault shows up, after about 5k (kind of guessing as the rev needle didnt really work all that well) the turbo seems to run out of puff, power is constant and doesnt feel like its dropping off but its certainly not pulling any harder, sure the revs will go up eventually but sod it, lets have another gear instead, the boys did fit six of em after all. Once changed, there is no lag to get back on boost, no popping on the over run either so it must be pretty well tuned without being stupidly lairy. By this time im making with the huge grin. A couple of roundabouts and a spot of traffic weaving later and I feel I've found out all I need to know about this car.
So what about the comparison. Well first off, the turbo is going to pull harder from a standstill than the supercharger. the turbo is not as powerful in real terms as far as delivered power is concerned, it definitely does feel as good as the supercharger. When the turbo is at higher revs the power increasse trails off, the supercharger keeps on going to red line and would probably go further. In the defence of the turbo setup, there is a new turbo in the offing. The existing KKK is being replaced by a far more useful Garett item, this I believe will get rid of the power drop off at the top end, it may become a touch laggy low down but I doubt it will matter much.
And still you dont know which to pick. Well to be honest, neither do I. I loved the supercharger, its power delivery is so linear and controllable, you do have to work the gears to make the most of it though, and this is were the turbo seems to be ahead a bit, its a small unit and small amounts of throttle movement spin it up very quickly, this makes its power delivery fasst and snappy, get rid of the top end power drop off using the new turbo and it will be an awesome car. Which one then, well Im thinking its going to have to come down to what sort of system you like. If you want the car to have wastegate chatter then go turbo, if you want it to sound like it may just have a jet engine fitted then go supercharger. In day to day driving I think they will both be pretty equal, for hard running I think the SC will win out as it wont ever trail power off.
For me I think I would still go Supercharger, but then again, I am tempted to get another Celica just so I can have a play with this turbo setup. I am well impressed and look forward to rying the car with the new turbo in place.