Mix Spring kits - OK or not? Help/input :)

[AZceliGirl]

Hey guys, so I'm still bottoming out REALLY easily in the front. The back doesn't ever bottom out. I have Tokico HP series (blues) and Eibach Sportlines (1.8" drop front/2.4" drop rear). The drop is perfect but I am afraid something major is going to break if I dont' do something soon about the front bottoming out. I've talked to soooo many mechanics and no one can figure out what's wrong. I'm sure it's just too much a drop for those Tokico's - so what do I do?

A) Try to find someone that makes shocks that will handle the Sportlines? (If so, suggestions PLEASE!)

B) Downgrade to the Eibach Pro-Kit (I'm going to be putting a new body kit on in the next couple months - so a lift MAY be beneficial unless I go get a custom kit)

C) Keep the Sportlines in the back, but take them off in the front and put the Pro Kit so the front stops bottoming out. (My only concern with doing this is that I could possibly ruin my rear Tokico's by leaving the Sportlines there.)

Your input is MUCH appreciated! I'm not sure where else to turn since no one else can figure this out!

Kristin

[QTRMLR_1]

my Sportlines work fine with KYB AGX. sell Tokico and buy KYB (or other order)?

[AZceliGirl]

my Sportlines work fine with KYB AGX. sell Tokico and buy KYB (or other order)?
Hey there, can u please tell me the exact ones you have so I can order them? Thx!

[CelicaGTizzle]

my Sportlines work fine with KYB AGX. sell Tokico and buy KYB (or other order)?
Hey there, can u please tell me the exact ones you have so I can order them? Thx!


He said he has the KYB AGX. You can't get much more specific than that...

[slvceli]

my Sportlines work fine with KYB AGX. sell Tokico and buy KYB (or other order)?
Hey there, can u please tell me the exact ones you have so I can order them? Thx!


He said he has the KYB AGX. You can't get much more specific than that...


So feisty. :chuckles: Here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971732709&category=33590&sspagename=WDVW

[AZceliGirl]

He said he has the KYB AGX. You can't get much more specific than that...
Ah, ok so there isn't like a certain type - adjustable , non adjustable, gas, nothing else specific? I just want to get exactly the same thing - I'm sick of worrying about bottoming out.

slv, thanks for the link. I think I'll buy it.

Kristin

[hi ho silver]

agx ones are adjustables.. i believe the kyb gr2's are not on the other hand,, eitherway,,, kyb agx's are awesome!

[AZceliGirl]

agx ones are adjustables.. i believe the kyb gr2's are not on the other hand,, eitherway,,, kyb agx's are awesome!Awesome guys, thanks for the link and info, I'm gonna buy these right now :) I sure hope this solves my bottoming out :)

--Kristin

[Sguerra923]

Going off what AZcelicgirl was talkin about ... do you think its ok to have different springs in the front from the rear? do you think that will hurt any suspension stuff?

[DYI01]

What I would do is get a set of koni's and get them shortened and revalved. That will solve all your issues with bottoming out. The problem with off the shelf dampers is that they are the same length as stock dampers are. When you put on a lowering spring you loose a lot of the stroke of the damper. Get a shortened and revalved damper and you get all your stroke back. The damper body is shortened and instead of loosing stroke when you lower your car you loose the shock body length. Its hard to understand without a diagram unless you know exactly what I am talking about.

[Sguerra923]

Has anyone tried using different springs for the front vs. the rear?

[AZceliGirl]

What I would do is get a set of koni's and get them shortened and revalved. That will solve all your issues with bottoming out. The problem with off the shelf dampers is that they are the same length as stock dampers are. When you put on a lowering spring you loose a lot of the stroke of the damper. Get a shortened and revalved damper and you get all your stroke back. The damper body is shortened and instead of loosing stroke when you lower your car you loose the shock body length. Its hard to understand without a diagram unless you know exactly what I am talking about.
Hmmm well I might end up having to do this. I just ordered the KYB AGX's since no one else is having bottoming out problems with Sportlines/KYB AGX shocks. If I start bottoming out again with these on, I'll have to use your suggestion DYI01. Where would I go to have them shorten the body of the Koni's and which Koni's would I purchase?

[DYI01]

If you are going to be buying all these things you might as well just splurge and buy a set of coilovers. All TEIN coilover setups have shortened damper bodies. You can pickup a set of Basic dampers for ~$800 and 16 way ajustable SS dampers for ~1100. This will give you the adjustability of a coilover and a shortened body damper. A modified KONI damper will run about ~$550 for the off the shelf dampers and then an extra $75-$125 each for modifying them. Im not totally sure on the prices since it's been a while since I looked into doing this years ago.

[AZceliGirl]

If you are going to be buying all these things you might as well just splurge and buy a set of coilovers. All TEIN coilover setups have shortened damper bodies. You can pickup a set of Basic dampers for ~$800 and 16 way ajustable SS dampers for ~1100. This will give you the adjustability of a coilover and a shortened body damper. A modified KONI damper will run about ~$550 for the off the shelf dampers and then an extra $75-$125 each for modifying them. Im not totally sure on the prices since it's been a while since I looked into doing this years ago.
Cool, thanks so much for all the info. If the KYB's don't work, I'll have to either go the TEIN route, or get some Koni's and have them shorten them. Any reason why I'd rather have the Basic dampers or the 16 way adjustable SS dampers from Tein?

Thanks again :)

Kristin

[Sguerra923]

Has anyone tried using different springs for the front vs. the rear?

anyone? is it ok?

[QTRMLR_1]

not sure what you mean.

different? you mean different spring heights and spring rates between front/rear? that's normal within a set. different manufacturers? I wouldn't. they're engineered to work together.

[1zz-fe ce|ica]

i think if u kept the sportlines in the back and the prokit in the front the car would really be uneven.

isn't prokit it suppose to be like 1.25 in the front as oppose to the sportlines which is like 1.8

and the back is even worse. prokit _____ ?? i'm not sure .. but isn't sportlines 2.2in in the back

also there is the spring rate problem. i'm pretty sure eibach springs are progressive rate but i think they can still have different springs rates at different positions. like the more aggressive ur driving the spring rate is suppose to go up. but when ur driving normally the springs are softer. I think it has to deal with the way they are designed.

anyway, front and rear may have different spring rates which may not be ideal for driving.

example:

tanabe NF springs have like stock feel, so i guess that means stock spring rate
tanabe GF springs have a 20 -30% increase in spring rate (average drop)
tanabe DF springs have only a 10% increase in spring rate (largest drop)

-so the spring rates would be different if u mixed at matched these kits. will affect handling, but i'm not an expert with spring rates.

anyway, there are 2 different things to think about. I may not be totally right about the spring rate thing. but i know the height will be way off.

maybe drive slower over speedbumps =)

[hi ho silver]

If you are going to be buying all these things you might as well just splurge and buy a set of coilovers. All TEIN coilover setups have shortened damper bodies. You can pickup a set of Basic dampers for ~$800 and 16 way ajustable SS dampers for ~1100. This will give you the adjustability of a coilover and a shortened body damper. A modified KONI damper will run about ~$550 for the off the shelf dampers and then an extra $75-$125 each for modifying them. Im not totally sure on the prices since it's been a while since I looked into doing this years ago.
Cool, thanks so much for all the info. If the KYB's don't work, I'll have to either go the TEIN route, or get some Koni's and have them shorten them. Any reason why I'd rather have the Basic dampers or the 16 way adjustable SS dampers from Tein?

Thanks again :)

Kristin



yeah... if you have the money... definately get a set of teins or jic magics or something.. i think b+g has a coilover setup as well. oh and adjustables are great if you dont want a harsh ride all the time. i have jic sf1's no damper control, they're stiff compared to stock.. but bearable.. much better feel than my hotchkis/kybagx combo. when a shock and coil are made for eachother like in coilovers(tein,jic.. etc) it feels even better than aftermarket shocks and springs

[AZceliGirl]

Great info 1zz-fe ce|ica , thanks :) What you're saying makes sense. I did think about the heights being off, so I doubt it'd be a good idea to mix the different kits...even if it IS the same manufacturer. When it comes down to it, they have the different kits for a reason.

I go like less than 5 mph over speedbumps/humps and it STILL bottoms out at the top of the bump and then again at the bottom. I swear I almost go backwards when going over! I actually think I did roll back a bit today LOL.

Well, thanks again for the great info :) I appreciate it.

Kristin

[AZceliGirl]

yeah... if you have the money... definately get a set of teins or jic magics or something.. i think b+g has a coilover setup as well. oh and adjustables are great if you dont want a harsh ride all the time. i have jic sf1's no damper control, they're stiff compared to stock.. but bearable.. much better feel than my hotchkis/kybagx combo. when a shock and coil are made for eachother like in coilovers(tein,jic.. etc) it feels even better than aftermarket shocks and springs
Well, I'm not too concerned with the harsh ride...I'm more concerned with the bottoming out. If the KYB/AGX will solve that problem, I'll leave those on and sell the Tokico Blues I have had on for 3 weeks. How much of a drop did you have with your KYB/AGX?

--Kristin

[hi ho silver]

ehh whatever the hotchkis drop is.. ~1.7 rear and ~1.4 front.. or something like that.. but i've got about if not over 2 inches with my coilovers all around i think. and the ride is awesome

[AZceliGirl]

ehh whatever the hotchkis drop is.. ~1.7 rear and ~1.4 front.. or something like that.. but i've got about if not over 2 inches with my coilovers all around i think. and the ride is awesome
aHmmm ur starting to lean me the other direction toward coilovers LOL. This is beginning to be an expensive project. Didn't think lowering it would cause all this. Why can't they just make it easy LOL. Right now I have the Tokico's on and they are bottoming me out in the front...so I ordered the KYB AGX shocks and will try those on next week and sell my Tokicos...if the KYB AGX bottom me out as well, I'll order coilovers and sell the KYB's. Ugh, what a mess! My mechanic was like, great, u didn't get coilovers, that's good to see, those are not good at all. I think he said that they aren't as good as springs cuz they make you bounce around a lot and give a harsher ride. I don't know, whatever. If I do have to get coilovers, hi ho silver, which ones do I need to get? Are the Teins the best?

Thanks so much, anytime ur in AZ look me up and I'll take u out for drinks or something - that goes for you too, 1zz-fe ce|ica!

--Kristin

[hi ho silver]

well.. first of all.. the coilovers your mechanic is talking about are sleeve type coilovers.. which look something like this
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30057151/Images/COILOVER1.jpg

they fit over your aftermarket or stock shocks and ride quality wont be as good as regular lowering springs/aftermarket shocks.. and definately wont be as good as real coilovers like these
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/jic/1gfwd-sf1-set.jpg
notice its one entire assembly.

now which ones to get depends on what you want them for.. and which one you have enough funds for.

[AZceliGirl]

Cool, thanks, are the coilovers like the bottom ones Teins? If I end up getting those, I'd want the best ones that'll give the best drop. Any idea which ones I would get if this is the case? Sorry to ask you to do the legwork, but I'm afraid I'll get the wrong thing. LOL. I'm already going to be out quite a bit if the KYB AGX's don't work. At least my mechanic isn't charging me.

--Kristin

[pfcnguyen]

Dont forget to get a camber kit while your at it.

[hi ho silver]

i dont think you'll have a problem with the kyb's..

and yes the bottom pics are like teins, jic.. etc. with my jic's i only needed a camber kit in the rear. the front came with adjustable pillow mounts.. with teins or jics or whateverelse is out there.. you should be able to get even lower than your eibach sportlines

[AZceliGirl]

Dont forget to get a camber kit while your at it.Yeah, I've ordered one from Eibach (they were on backorder), then we're going to align the car and all after they put the new shocks. I'll have some Tokicos blues up for sale soon :)

[AZceliGirl]

i dont think you'll have a problem with the kyb's..

and yes the bottom pics are like teins, jic.. etc. with my jic's i only needed a camber kit in the rear. the front came with adjustable pillow mounts.. with teins or jics or whateverelse is out there.. you should be able to get even lower than your eibach sportlines
Cool, well I will see if the KYB's work and if I bottom out much with those. These Tokico's suck with Sportlines. I don't want to go too much lower because I am puttting a body kit on soon and I have a really steep driveway and most everywhere I go there happens to be crappy bumps in the road. I'll let you guys know how the sportlines/kyb agx's work :)

Kristin

[krazeazn]

Cool, well I will see if the KYB's work and if I bottom out much with those. These Tokico's suck with Sportlines. I don't want to go too much lower because I am puttting a body kit on soon and I have a really steep driveway and most everywhere I go there happens to be crappy bumps in the road. I'll let you guys know how the sportlines/kyb agx's work :)

Kristin

dont crappy roads just make u sick :thumbup:

[AZceliGirl]

dont crappy roads just make u sick :thumbup:
As bad as it's bottoming out in the front right now, I cringe when I see a bump or dip in the road LOL. Oh and it gets even better in monsoon season around here...roads flood so easily with the hard desert ground. The washes overflow and the rocks get ALL over the street and sometimes u can't avoid it. It always pisses me off when some idiot in a SUV smashes thru a huge puddle full of rocks and $hit. I got my ways of gettin back at them though LOL.

Kristin

[Blue Bomber]

I don't think the KYBs will be any better. They'll blow out, since they're only warrantied down to 1.5". Dont forget to get a camber kit while your at it.Yeah, I've ordered one from Eibach (they were on backorder), then we're going to align the car and all after they put the new shocks. I'll have some Tokicos blues up for sale soon :)
Eibach's camber kit is for the front only. They have a misprint on their applications list when saying they have a camber kit for the rear. The only one out there is Hotchkis.

[AZceliGirl]

I don't think the KYBs will be any better. They'll blow out, since they're only warrantied down to 1.5".Eibach's camber kit is for the front only. They have a misprint on their applications list when saying they have a camber kit for the rear. The only one out there is Hotchkis.
Ah ok thanks for the info Blue Bomber.

Soo gee, what's my best solution as far as the suspension goes? Should I just forget the KYB's and go for coilovers from Tein? Or, since I'm getting a body kit, should I just switch out the springs to the Pro Kit? I'm starting to think that getting the Pro Kit is the best idea, then I will have more clearance for a body kit.

Kristin

[krazeazn]

tein ss :p

[hi ho silver]

if you have the money i'd say go with tein coilovers... but if you're considering going with eibach pro kit.. just go for something else altogether like tein springs.. they're like a 1.4 drop. the prokit is not much lower than stock.

[AZceliGirl]

if you have the money i'd say go with tein coilovers... but if you're considering going with eibach pro kit.. just go for something else altogether like tein springs.. they're like a 1.4 drop. the prokit is not much lower than stock.Well, I'll have more $$$ in a couple weeks so I'd be able to do the coilovers then. I'll try on the KYB's for a couple weeks and see if they bottom out. How long before they wear out? Is a couple weeks enough time to give them to see if they're going to bottom out or not?

Kristin

[hi ho silver]

they shouldn't bottom out.. only problem is that if they do.. you can't do anything about it because no shock is able to handle that drop like bomber said.

its hard to say how long they will last.. i've known people who have trd springs and lost their shocks in a few months... and then on the other end i've known people with low drops that still have stock shocks that work fine. i guess it depends on road conditions in your area etc.

[AZceliGirl]

Sooo can someone please tell me, are these Tein SS-P coilovers the best way to go? By reading the description, it looks like these allow me to adjust the lowering up to 3" in the rear and 2.3" in the front. I think I'm just going to forget about even putting on the KYB AGX's and do these, especially since the roads around here can get pretty bad as far as bumps go. Looks like a good price and it has pillowmounts. What do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7973073461&category=33582&sspagename=WDVW

Thanks again for everyone who's helped me out, I owe you all drinks if we ever meet up!

--Kristin

[krazeazn]

what kind of driving do you do?

[AZceliGirl]

what kind of driving do you do?
Well, just normal street driving, sometimes street racing, I rarely go to the track. I just want something I can use with Eibach Sportlines OR just get a whole different setup that for sure won't bottom out like the coilovers. I like how they are 16 way adjustable, so I'm pretty sure I'm goin with that.