GTS to GT Conversoin... what do i need?

[noitseuQ]

Beside the GT engine and computer... what all would i need to convert my gts to a GT with my GTS 6-speed tranny... would it be a simple plug and play or would i need to re-wire my harness. Would the Computer be a simple unplug the old and plug in the new... or would i need new conectors?

Reason why i want to do a conversion is for the ease of doing a turbo setup...

thanks for the help guys

[FLO]

http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/slap.gif

WHy would you wanna do that?

[noitseuQ]

there are already plenty of turbo kits redily avalible for the gt.... plus i now have over 70k miles on my celica ... so if i were goin to turbo it i would want to buy a new motor, VVTLI is to technical and expensive to do a turbo setup right to work with the lift and everything.. GT would be simple to get a turbo setup workign with the lift still enabled.

[FLO]

I say just wait and get some lower comp pistons

[noitseuQ]

Didnt someone do a swap with a 3sGTE?

[FLO]

That would be sweet :D I believe the Ultimate Celica has a 3sgte.

[noitseuQ]

yeah it would... 200hp and 200tq stock

[jotan82]

TRUE the ULTIMATE celica has the 3SGTE

But it's not a 7th gen celica...

it's a 5th gen with a 7th gen body conversion

[Willis5050]

Originally posted by noitseuQ
there are already plenty of turbo kits redily avalible for the gt.... plus i now have over 70k miles on my celica ... so if i were goin to turbo it i would want to buy a new motor, VVTLI is to technical and expensive to do a turbo setup right to work with the lift and everything.. GT would be simple to get a turbo setup workign with the lift still enabled.

So confused...I guess I didn't know there were so many turbo kits for the GT. Also, how are you going to enable lift on a GT engine? I guess it seems like a strange request to me, but I know how some people like their "projects". Why wouldn't you just lower the compression on your current engine, or just swap somebody with a GT?

[gts24]

Originally posted by noitseuQ
there are already plenty of turbo kits redily avalible for the gt.... plus i now have over 70k miles on my celica ... so if i were goin to turbo it i would want to buy a new motor, VVTLI is to technical and expensive to do a turbo setup right to work with the lift and everything.. GT would be simple to get a turbo setup workign with the lift still enabled.


WTF are you talkin about? There isn't a single turbo kit available right now for either in the States. Toyota Team Europe has one for the GT that they show but that's about it.

[noitseuQ]

reason being is that i want to keep the 6 speed tranny.... i mean its going to come to a point in the next 2 years where i would possibly have to drop a new motor anyway because of all the miles.... so i figure it would be cheaper to drop a gt engine instead of the GTS... plus i would benifit from the gt engine since it would be easier to adapt a turbo.... but thats just my knowlege, i havent seen many kits on gts, and everytime i talk to a performance shop about it .... they all have recommened crydizing the insides of the motor, plus the gts doesnt have any valve sleeves from what ive been told... and therefore cant really handle the extra power from a turbo... at least the longevity of having a kit...

but still just to answer my ?.... what all would be needed it anybody out there knows... to put a gt engine into a GTS car

[autxr]

You should just need the ECU and the engine. Keep the 6 speed if you want. SHould be rather straight forward.

I was wondering how long it owuld take before folks started to do this. I suggested it a year ago to someone who blew their engine on a misshift. I think I suggested it later when Larry D. was trying to get his engine woes taken care of.

As for enabling "lift", well, the 1ZZ doesn't have it, so why try to enable it.

If I wanted to go with forced induction, this is the route I would take. You will probably get extra cash when you sell your GTS engine. The 1ZZ shold be dirt cheap, you are going with a turbo, so use a Corolla motor if need be, not a problem to go with bigger injectors and higher boost as needed. Lots of corollas, can probably get a low milage 1ZZ for under $1000, can sell the 2ZZ for $2000.

Scott

[noitseuQ]

there is still lift on the GT engineof course its nothing like the GTS... im not sure when it kicks in but i think its the exhuast cam that retards 30 deg at 4k rpm.... something like that.. any GT owners know the exact specifications on this?

[Keyshawn]

If you wanna turbocharge your car the right way, BUILD that 2zz up for true turbocharged peformance! That's what Jay from World Racing told me. Forget that GT conversion, and instead spend that money on some engine internals.

Originally posted by noitseuQ
Beside the GT engine and computer... what all would i need to convert my gts to a GT with my GTS 6-speed tranny... would it be a simple plug and play or would i need to re-wire my harness. Would the Computer be a simple unplug the old and plug in the new... or would i need new conectors?

Reason why i want to do a conversion is for the ease of doing a turbo setup...

thanks for the help guys

[noitseuQ]

are there any cams available for the GTS yet?

[kuruptgt]

there are turbo kits out? where was i sleeping. and why you want to put a gt engine in when you can just lower the comp in the gts motor for alot cheaper.

[kuruptgt]

reatrd the exhaust cam 30 deg? are you sure you know what yur talkin about.

[noitseuQ]

yes... i know the techology is similar to that of a 4age 20v VVT motor which i do have in my 87 MR2

[nyoneway]

Swap a GT motor for a GTS? You may as well as either build up the GTS or just swap the GT heads for the GTS and keep the GTS bottom.

[inline4]

Swapping engines you would need a new ECU
Swapping manual tranny to manual tranny, you don't
Swapping auto tranny to manual tranny, you do
Swapping manual tranny to auto tranny, you do

Reasons.. with an auto, the ECU doesnt let you start the car in neutral, D, D2, R.. so that's why you only need to swap ECU's for the above stated. Engines are the same thing.. since the computer controls the engine redline, air/intake/exhaust.. etc.

[gts24]

Originally posted by noitseuQ
there is still lift on the GT engineof course its nothing like the GTS... im not sure when it kicks in but i think its the exhuast cam that retards 30 deg at 4k rpm.... something like that.. any GT owners know the exact specifications on this?


WTF are you talkin about?

[Willis5050]

Originally posted by noitseuQ
there is still lift on the GT engineof course its nothing like the GTS... im not sure when it kicks in but i think its the exhuast cam that retards 30 deg at 4k rpm.... something like that.. any GT owners know the exact specifications on this?

I believe you are thinking of variable cam timing instead of variable lift. They are different.

[Da Kine Guy]

Yup, the 1ZZ-FE has variable valve timeing on the intake side of things, exhaust is left alone (just like the 2ZZ-GE).

http://www.greganti.com/celica/specifications/valvetrain.jpg

This is the 2ZZ, but since the 2ZZ is based off the 1ZZ I would think it would be the same deal. As you can see there is only one VVT controller on the intake cam shaft.

The 1ZZ has NO LIFT!!! There are two cam lobes for each cylinder, one for the intake valves, one for the exhaust valves. There are no other cam lobes that the engine switches to at any time because the don't exist. I mean, it says so right in the name of the technology. GT had VVT-i (Variable Valve Timeing with Intelligence) and the GT-S has VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timeing and Lift with Intelligence).

[gts24]

Exactly why I said WTF. he is trying to tell us the 1ZZ has lift.

[infinitegts]

Lift is is when the 2nd camlobe engages, nothing to do with timing...
Nice little artice Da Kine. Thought everyone knew this from the last 10 years of Vtec being on the market..

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by infinitegts
Lift is is when the 2nd camlobe engages, nothing to do with timing...
Nice little artice Da Kine. Thought everyone knew this from the last 10 years of Vtec being on the market..

You'd be surprised that there are even "knowledgeable" honda tuners who don't even know what VTEC exactly is. I was reading something on a corvette forum about a turbo Si beating a Z06 or something. Anyways, the vette guy was poking fun and VTEC and the honda came back trying to explain what VTEC was. He went on about how it is an advanced fuel management system that dynamically adjusts and blah blah blah.... For those who might not know VTEC is VERY similar to VVTL-i minus the VVT and i. All it does it switch cam lobes at a specified RPM.

http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/engine/tech_pic_eng_vtec_2.jpg

Here's a pic of Honda's 3-stage VTEC. No street car that I know of uses this three stage type. When you see a Honda with a genuine VTEC badge you are looking at a 2 stage design (like our GT-S). All three of those rocker arms operate independently when nothing is engaged. Put hydraulic pressure in the top pipe and it pushes the rod into the slot on the last rocker, therefore driving both valves with the first cam profile. Put pressure in the lower pipe and the rods slip into each adjecent slot, therefore connecting all three rocker arms and driving both valves off of the high speed middle cam profile.

Yes there is variable timeing, phasing, and lift with each profile change, but unlike VVT-i it is not continuously variable. This is what they implemented into iVTEC (see VVTL-i) which makes it much more superior to its predesessor.

http://www.greganti.com/celica/specifications/vvtli.jpg

For those who want to see how our Toyota version works here a nice picture for ya. The shaft with the arrow in the first pic is being driven by the high speed cam lobe. This shaft moves up and down freely withing the chamber until oil pressure is allowed to build behind the pin, thus pushing it underneath the moving shaft. Now that the shaft makes contact with a piece of the of the rocker arm the valves can now be driven by the high speed cam. Under 6k RPM, spring pushes pin away from moving shaft. When you hit 6k the oil drain valve is closed, which builds pressure and pushes the pin under the shaft and connecting the rocker arm to the high speed cam.


PHEW!!!!!!!

[Keyshawn]

Da Kine Guy,
Where do ya get these cool diagrams at?

[coOOlcelica]

i am wondering the same thing.....

where did u get those?

[Da Kine Guy]

I drew 'em from scratch, can't you tell :P

for some Celica specific ones go to http://www.greganti.com/celica/specifications/index.html

for information on variable valve timeing go to http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm

The last one is an awesome site to learn about all kinds of good stuff :)!!