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Motor
08-31-2005, 06:12 PM
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=107050
They Should Call It the Type-R

By Scott Oldham
Date posted: 08-31-2005

Before 1998, prison was the only reason to visit Joliet, Illinois. For more than 135 years, guests of the small town were either temporary residents for 25 to life or visiting their uncle Vinny, who still swears it was self-defense.

In the last seven years, however, motorsports have replaced the pokey as Joliet's draw. In that time, six racetracks have gone in and the infamous 144-year-old Joliet Correctional Center has been boarded up. Three of those tracks are part of the 320-acre Autobahn Country Club, which opened last April. It's basically an upscale private club for gear heads instead of golf geeks, offering members unlimited daily track time, car storage, a decked clubhouse, etc. And the place is a hit. Nearly 300 G-load junkies have already signed up despite the $25,000 initiation fee and $3,000 annual dues.

It was there, on Autobahn's 1.46-mile, 9-turn North Circuit, that Honda let us drive the new 2006 Honda Civic Si. And it was there, with its guttural exhaust note howling through the trees, that this little hot rod proved itself to be the best car to ever wear the iconic Si badge.

Not a Hot Hatch Anymore
Unlike its predecessor, which was a slow and homely-looking hatchback with a meager redline and the agility of an elderly woman, this Si is a quick (Honda says it'll accelerate to 60 mph in 6.7 seconds), fun-to-fling-around coupe, with sharp lines and the most sharply raked windshield in Honda's history. Yes, sharper than even the NSX's.

And it revs. Oh brother, does it rev. Redline is eight thou, and the engine flies past that mark with such willingness Honda has set the rev limiter at a hold-on-to-your-connecting-rods 8,500 rpm.

Honda has also made the new car 9.1 inches longer, 2.2 inches wider and 3.2 inches lower than a 2005 Si. And it rides on a 3.1-inch-longer wheelbase (104.3 inches), which it shares with the Civic coupe, but not the sedan. For the first time, the Civic sedan and coupe don't share a wheelbase. The sedan's is 2 inches longer. (We'll post a first drive of the 2006 Civic Coupe, Sedan and Hybrid next week.)

Those new dimensions have added 95 pounds to the Si's curb weight, and have swiped almost 3 inches of rear legroom. Unless you hang with supermodels and NBA stars, the car's backseat remains usable. And let's face it, if you're driving a Civic, even an Si, you ain't hangin' with Tyra and Shaq.

Honda says it can seat five. Good luck with that.

The trunk is smaller, too, down to 11.5 cubic feet. But remember, the last Si was a hatchback, this one is a proper coupe. The previous Civic coupe's trunk had 12.9 cubic feet of space.

Animal Sounds
As another mutation of the Honda's K-Series engine family, the new car's engine is an all-aluminum 2.0-liter with double overhead cams, 16 valves and four cylinders. It shares a basic architecture, an 11-to-1 compression ratio and Honda's i-VTEC valve-control system with the 2.0-liter that's been powering the Acura RSX Type-S since 2001, but a balance shaft for additional smoothness and throttle-by-wire are unique to the Si's engine.

Honda also designed a special short, single cast-aluminum intake manifold for the Si with an extra-large 70mm intake duct. Honda says it boosts high-rpm power and is partly responsible for the car's unique sound. To enhance that sound the intake duct was routed inside the fender to take advantage of the body panel's acoustics. According to Honda, the panel amplifies the intake sound, which is probably why we could hear the Si ripping down the back straight from pit road.

You can feel i-VTEC doing its thing, first changing the engine's feel and tone at 3,000 rpm and again at 6,000 rpm. Despite the engine's tendency to hold onto revs when you close the throttle (a slight annoyance tuned into the electronic throttle), there isn't a better normally aspirated four-banger in the world.

An even 200 was the planned horsepower rating, but the new SAE ratings system cut that number back to 197 hp at 7,800 rpm. Torque is up to 139 pound-feet at 6,200 rpm. The EPA rates it at 22 mpg city and 31 mpg highway, and it drinks premium. The engine in the 2006 RSX Type-S will be rated at 201 hp at 7,800 rpm and 140 lb-ft of torque at 7,000 rpm.

Both cars also use a version of the same six-speed manual transmission, which is the only gearbox offered in the Si. The Si's version of the transmission gets a taller 6th for more relaxed highway cruising, and redesigned cones and synchros for reduced shift effort.

But here's the best part: A helical limited-slip differential is standard equipment.

Racetrack-Ready
And on the racetrack, that diff makes all the difference. The Si would handle well without it, but it may be the best handling front-wheel-drive car we've ever tossed around because of it. Carry too much speed into a corner and the Si understeers like any other front driver, but you can easily correct your mistake by burying your foot in the throttle.

Yes, you floor it. The Si's differential transmits more torque to the outside tire which has the most grip. This immediately tightens your line and gets you around the turn faster looking like a hero.

Of course the LSD doesn't make magic alone. The Si shares its MacPherson-strut front suspension and multilink double-wishbone suspension with the rest of the Civic line, but the Si gets increased spring rates, stiffer dampers, and larger, solid antiroll bars. It also gets unique 17-inch wheels and all-season Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires standard. The cars we drove wore the optional summer tire, which is the same size as the standard rubber, only stickier.

The combination supplies a firm, but very livable ride on the street and Deney Terrio dance moves on the racetrack. Grip is high, body roll is very well controlled, as is brake dive, and the feel and ratio of the electric power steering is right on. Its larger front and rear disc brakes also felt good and failed to fade significantly after 10 hard laps.

Office Depot
The interior is where our over-the-top enthusiasm for the Si wanes a little.

But first, the good: After only a few miles of Illinois farm road it was clear that control placement and visibility are excellent, as are the seats, the three-spoke steering wheel and perfectly placed aluminum pedals.

The list of standard and optional equipment is also impressive. Power everything, keyless entry, a tilt and telescopic steering wheel, ABS, side curtain airbags, a sunroof, a rear spoiler, air conditioning, cruise control, leather-wrapped steering wheel, a fold-down rear seat, a 360-watt sound system with CD player, MP3/MPA capability, and an auxiliary audio port are all included for the "less than $20,000" price. A navigation system with voice recognition is available for the first time, and the dealers can sell you 18-inch wheels and tires.

So where's the problem? Right in front of the driver.

Honda chose to divide up the gauges, leaving the traditional analog tachometer in the traditional location, viewed through the steering wheel, and placing a digital speedometer and digital gas and temperature gauges up at the base of the windshield. Honda calls it a two-tier instrument panel and says the design places the speedometer up high in the driver's field of vision.

We think it looks kind of silly, but our problem with it isn't purely aesthetic. In our preferred seating position, which is different for everyone, the rim of the steering wheel completely blocked the upper-tier gauges from view. Uh, hello?

Whatever. Maybe the kids will like it.

The Si Is Back
After driving the Si on the road and racetrack, we agree with page 4 of the 2006 Honda Civic press kit, which states, "Bottom line, the 2006 Civic Si is the best handling, best performing Civic to ever touch tire to asphalt in America."

And the price is right. Not only is it a whole lot less than a membership to the Autobahn Country Club, it will be between $3,500 and $5,000 less than an RSX Type-S.

Save the cash. When the Si hits this fall, the only folks still buying the Acura will be the badge-conscious and lovers of leather seats. Their issues, their loss.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2006/honda.civic.si/06.honda.civic.si.f34.500.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2006/honda.civic.si/06.honda.civic.si.act.r34.500.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2006/honda.civic.si/06.honda.civic.si.eng.500.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2006/honda.civic.si/06.honda.civic.si.int.500.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2006/honda.civic.si/06.honda.civic.si.torque.500.jpg

Discuss. :eatpop:

I predict a tC asswhoopin.' Overall, I'm impressed.

natewan31
08-31-2005, 06:15 PM
navigation from the factory....nice.

slidr
08-31-2005, 06:18 PM
Only thing I like about the car is the standard LSD.

The thing I despise most about it is the digital speedometer (if I read that right).
I thought those were gone for good.

Motor
08-31-2005, 06:23 PM
The EPA rates it at 22 mpg city and 31 mpg highway, and it drinks premium.

:thumbdown:

switchlanez
08-31-2005, 06:27 PM
our celicas can't hang :wtc:

switchlanez
08-31-2005, 06:28 PM
but it's an awesome value and latest and greatest fwd.

slidr
08-31-2005, 06:29 PM
our celicas can't hang :wtc:
With that?!

They should be able to. A GTS at least.

marc
08-31-2005, 06:52 PM
holy **** they actually kept the LSD!!!!

Littleguy
08-31-2005, 07:22 PM
Looks like it's going to be one of the best fwd cars out there. Looks wierd in the pictures though, maybe it would look better in person and in white.

ice33
08-31-2005, 07:39 PM
Sorry but thats a nasty dash layout.

ibanezgfx
08-31-2005, 09:35 PM
toyota keeps gettin shlt on

SlicKcEliGTS
08-31-2005, 09:37 PM
interesting steering wheel.

Gas-n-Grease
08-31-2005, 09:58 PM
you have to see it in person. its a lot more nice in person. worked around it for nearly a month. i like where the tachometer is layed out, however, the digital speedometer/fuel gauge/temp gauge is a mis-design in my opinion. i like how Mazda put the instruments in the Rx8 (and of course, the Rx7). The cars exterior looks good, but the interior design looks a little bland. Once again, Honda continues to make Pudgy cars.

Carbonized_GT
08-31-2005, 10:09 PM
tC=16000
+Turbo 2400
+LSD 900
=19300ish

New Si=20,000ish

tdunn1981
08-31-2005, 10:18 PM
This is what the 2006 GT-S Should be, but nope we gets teh scion :wtf:. Oh well I guess toyota thinks they'll make more money on people who actually believe their car is a transformer.

oONoGoAutoOo
08-31-2005, 10:27 PM
This is what the 2006 GT-S Should be, but nope we gets teh scion :wtf:. Oh well I guess toyota thinks they'll make more money on people who actually believe their car is a transformer.

lol!

Gundam Whang
09-01-2005, 02:06 AM
I'm not a Honda fan but I'm kinda impressed with the new Si. I'm more interested in seeing what will happen to the RSX though. With the introduction of the Si I would think sales for the RSX will drop. Maybe the next few years will mark the end for the RSX unless Honda decides to change it and put in a new engine. Anyone else agree with me?

GT-Struck
09-01-2005, 02:19 AM
Insnt the 2005 RSX type S rated with a 210 hp engine?...why does the new 2006 RSX type S come with a rated 201 hp? Is it the new SAE rating and how does that work? Si looks sic, way better than the hatch IMO. Celica will forever be in my heart as a Toyota follower...anywayz Si still cant drift liek a AE86 CAN!

cloakedpegasus
09-01-2005, 04:20 AM
my car is slow :sniff:

555 SOUL
09-01-2005, 06:20 AM
i told myself never to get a honda. but the way gas is going i've been thinking about trading my suv in and getting into something eco/fun, this looks like it might do the job.

Oo DaRk StAr oO
09-01-2005, 06:34 AM
Wow, very impressed! Looks like Honda is bringing there game, while Toyota is making Hybrids.

Oo DaRk StAr oO
09-01-2005, 06:35 AM
tC=16000
+Turbo 2400
+LSD 900
=19300ish

New Si=20,000ish


2400 dollar turbo? I wouldnt spend that little on a turbo.

KevGT-S
09-01-2005, 06:52 AM
tC=16000
+Turbo 2400
+LSD 900
=19300ish


- reliability
- factory warranty

Bi-Mon-Sci-Fi-Con
09-01-2005, 07:19 AM
Insnt the 2005 RSX type S rated with a 210 hp engine?...why does the new 2006 RSX type S come with a rated 201 hp? Is it the new SAE rating and how does that work? Si looks sic, way better than the hatch IMO. Celica will forever be in my heart as a Toyota follower...anywayz Si still cant drift liek a AE86 CAN!


Yeah, it's the new SAE rating. I think they have to now test the engines with more stuff on it, like emissions stuff, and accessories. So presumably the new Si is using the new rating as well.

Steve7thGenGT
09-01-2005, 07:23 AM
Time to sell the GT.

EasyC
09-01-2005, 08:22 AM
Doesn't the scion have a supercharger available, or did they never develope that?

How much does this thing weigh in for? I'm sure honda will make it piggy as usual.

Bi-Mon-Sci-Fi-Con
09-01-2005, 08:33 AM
Doesn't the scion have a supercharger available, or did they never develope that?

How much does this thing weigh in for? I'm sure honda will make it piggy as usual.


I'm not aware of the SC being available yet, and most likely it'll probably not. Not sure about the piggy honda comment.. A current civic sedan is ~2650lbs, and a Corolla is ~2615lbs. My bet is the new Si will be ~2800lbs.

ragingpaseo
09-01-2005, 08:48 AM
i'll buy one...factory LSD!!!!

EasyC
09-01-2005, 08:55 AM
Yes 2800 lbs with 197 hp....woot woot.

Bi-Mon-Sci-Fi-Con
09-01-2005, 09:06 AM
Yes 2800 lbs with 197 hp....woot woot.


Considering it's competition will be cars like the new GTI which is 200hp and ~3200lbs, that's not bad. The only thing Toyota has that's even close is the tc and that's ~3000lbs and has a lot less power.

modenaplz
09-01-2005, 09:47 AM
at least it's still ugly, otherwise we'd (GTSs) be TOTALLY owned :P

WillyK
09-01-2005, 09:49 AM
tC=16000
+Turbo 2400
+LSD 900
=19300ish

New Si=20,000ish

I'd still take the SI.

GINYU-GTS
09-01-2005, 10:09 AM
I'd still take the SI.

:werd:

marc
09-01-2005, 10:14 AM
yeah this is a seriously badass car

did you people forget the K20A article I posted a while back where you get 230 whp (that's as much horsepower as an EVO weighing 500 lbs less) from intake/exhaust/header/cams-springs-retainers/ecu ?

slidr
09-01-2005, 10:22 AM
yeah this is a seriously badass car

did you people forget the K20A article I posted a while back where you get 230 whp (that's as much horsepower as an EVO weighing 500 lbs less) from intake/exhaust/header/cams-springs-retainers/ecu ?

But I wonder how long they will have to wait for an aftermarket standalone ECU to become available that's compatable with their DBW. Or are you talking piggyback?

Nevermind, it is a Honda so it will most likely be developed a month after the car hits the showroom floor.

celicadragon
09-01-2005, 11:40 AM
i like this car

Bi-Mon-Sci-Fi-Con
09-01-2005, 12:39 PM
yeah this is a seriously badass car

did you people forget the K20A article I posted a while back where you get 230 whp (that's as much horsepower as an EVO weighing 500 lbs less) from intake/exhaust/header/cams-springs-retainers/ecu ?

But I wonder how long they will have to wait for an aftermarket standalone ECU to become available that's compatable with their DBW. Or are you talking piggyback?

Nevermind, it is a Honda so it will most likely be developed a month after the car hits the showroom floor.


It's funny you mention the timeline.. I know some aftermarket venders that had access to the cars months ago for R&D purposes. So you're probably right.

Ferris
09-01-2005, 03:12 PM
Yes 2800 lbs with 197 hp....woot woot.

Ouch! Easy on the 2800 pd comments....my s2000 almost cried, till it remembered it had 240hp stock ,cf hood,cf trunk,11 pd rims, and a gutted trunk to combat its porkiness:)

Seriously though, this car looks like it will be quite the contender. Has anyone seen the tuned/suped up ones from the little contest in modified mag? They have potential and you can't go wrong with a K-series engine. :applaud:

risingcelica
09-01-2005, 03:24 PM
looks nice, kinda reminds me of the 99-00 si years.

2zzTahara
09-01-2005, 04:20 PM
Toyota needs to pull it's head out of it's scion ass.

Celi702
09-01-2005, 04:38 PM
It basically looks like a redesigned Honda Accord. But lighter and more power. I give it two thumbs up. Only because Honda has stock LSD and this car is actually race unlike the Scion. Scion is kinda pathedic if you compare the upgrades like CELICA > SCION. OLD SI NEW SI. I still love my Celi though =D.

TW00Si
09-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Having owned a 2000 Si, I must say this new model definetly has the appeal of "more bang for the buck". Never-the-less, doesn't make sense to go back to a Civic.

canton_ph34r
09-02-2005, 08:25 AM
but looking at its price its a good buy and the weight is not too bad. Only thing is the stock compression is 11 so its that not boost friendly.

Radi0active Man
09-02-2005, 09:28 AM
i told myself never to get a honda. but the way gas is going i've been thinking about trading my suv in and getting into something eco/fun, this looks like it might do the job.
The EPA rates it at 22 mpg city and 31 mpg highway, and it drinks premium.
Not really a good choice...

kaizer_soze
09-02-2005, 11:05 AM
It still makes me feel sad.... TOYOTA wont give me anything to move on... Scion sux...
Most possible after 15 years of Toyotas I ll change to another manufacturer... damn

Littleguy
09-02-2005, 11:13 AM
It still makes me feel sad.... TOYOTA wont give me anything to move on... Scion sux...
Most possible after 15 years of Toyotas I ll change to another manufacturer... damn

I've been waiting for Toyota too, and I'm also dissapointed. I'm looking at this new Civic Si or a new GTI, I just wish Toyota had an option for me as well.

ShadyMilkman
09-02-2005, 03:03 PM
yeah, this might be my next car. I'm still praying that toyota will some out with something appealing to me...but they don't. plus my girlfriend's dad works at a honda dealership and is good friends with the owner. so I might be able to get a deal. I like the old pics of it in silver with the CF hood and black roof. I might have to do that too.

Littleguy
09-02-2005, 06:18 PM
I spoke to a friend that sells at a local Honda dealership and he told me he's going to a launch event for the car on Sept. 15th, hopefully I'll have pics and stuff that he takes from it.

6speedGTS
09-02-2005, 06:44 PM
Ok it's nice that there is more hp, but why does it have to be bigger and heaver? I wonder what is the 0 to 60 times?

Thor
09-02-2005, 06:52 PM
Honda/Acura did a great things back in the day. By 1995 or so here in Jersey is when I first realized what that meant and I didn't follow or care about cars. By 97 it was well known and thrown in my face.

I would've gotten the RSX-S if it was out when I bought my car.
For cars, that was one of my biggest mistakes. Not selling this car earlier and getting a S2000 or RSX-S.

I'm almost positive Toyota will come around with something good.
For us poor people and the rich ones.

The new SI will certainly be be better than our cars with the support and being a new.

I know a sinking ship when I see it. Better to get off on a life boat than swim with the rats.

CeliCar
09-02-2005, 07:23 PM
The new SI will certainly be be better than our cars with the support and being a new.

I know a sinking ship when I see it. Better to get off on a life boat than swim with the rats.



The Si is nice but does anyone honestly want another FF coupe after having a Celica. It's not like these other cars are lighter or more nimble. Besides a few ponies what would be the point of getting another car so similar.

There is enough support for the Celica to take you pretty far if your wallet is willing. To get to the next level of performance there are much better options than a car just like another Celica.

Littleguy
09-02-2005, 08:07 PM
The new SI will certainly be be better than our cars with the support and being a new.

I know a sinking ship when I see it. Better to get off on a life boat than swim with the rats.



The Si is nice but does anyone honestly want another FF coupe after having a Celica. It's not like these other cars are lighter or more nimble. Besides a few ponies what would be the point of getting another car so similar.

There is enough support for the Celica to take you pretty far if your wallet is willing. To get to the next level of performance there are much better options than a car just like another Celica.


I'm looking at the civic for a couple of reasons. One is that it may have similar stock hp as a gt-s but, it will have much greater aftermarket support making it cheaper to mod (maybe not much but some), and we will have more options as far as making power. The second is the price. I'm 2 years out of college and for the price of the car I can buy one as soon as it comes out and still be able to purchase my first home this spring. Some people may want to spend all of their money on a car but for people like me who want more the civic may be a good choice.