C-One Gear Set

[BHam00GT-S]

Has anybody looked at this? I was just reading about it, and I don't know a whole helluva lot about gear ratios, but what is our factory ratio? The C-Ones are 4.8 (genuine 4.550). That's what the jap translator says anyways. Kinda has some confusing wording on the text, but I'd think the numbers would be correct. And would this be worth about a grand (a little less by currency conversion)

[SLOWICA]

If you drag the car it's not the ideal ratio... if you auto-x or do HPDE you'll love them...they were originally designed by Kaaz but later sold the design to C-One. As far as a grand goes I think you're looking @ the final drive set. Let me know if you're interested.

[SLOWICA]

Gear Set
price ~$2,600
1st. 2nd. 3rd. 4th. 5th. 6th. FINAL
2ZZ-GE 3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 4.550
http://c-one.co.jp/parts_jpeg/2zz_cross.jpg

Final Drive
price ~$1,005
http://c-one.co.jp/parts_jpeg/parts_final-gear2.jpg

[BHam00GT-S]

is that higher or lower than our OEM ratio?

[evil eye]

So you can purchase the final drive with all the gear ratios, or just by itself? What's the difference between having just the final drive or having all the gears and final?

[SLOWICA]

is that higher or lower than our OEM ratio?

It's higher...
So you can purchase the final drive with all the gear ratios, or just by itself? What's the difference between having just the final drive or having all the gears and final?

Yes, you can purchase just the final drive. The final drive will alter the ratios of all 6 gears as it is the last "cog" in the equation. When combined w/ the gear set you have all new ratios to begin w/ and the final drive will alter that as well. Also the gear set is stronger by how much I don't know but I just know it's stronger... great for you boosted guys.

[mtskibum16]

The gear ratios don't seem like they'd be ideal for F/I or am I mistaken?

[evil eye]

So you can purchase the final drive with all the gear ratios, or just by itself? What's the difference between having just the final drive or having all the gears and final?

Yes, you can purchase just the final drive. The final drive will alter the ratios of all 6 gears as it is the last "cog" in the equation. When combined w/ the gear set you have all new ratios to begin w/ and the final drive will alter that as well. Also the gear set is stronger by how much I don't know but I just know it's stronger... great for you boosted guys.


Gotcha, thanks Eric.

[SLOWICA]

The gear ratios don't seem like they'd be ideal for F/I or am I mistaken?

not too sure...

[aerospike2002]

The gear ratios don't seem like they'd be ideal for F/I or am I mistaken?


They're not supposed to be, but I don't remember why. If any of you can infer why from the points I make below, post up. I'm trying to find the thread from about 2 years ago about these gears. If I find it, I'll post it. It's either from before the big site crash, or simply was deleted from the history. Anyway, we had a big discussion about their uses. I remember the conclusion was that they should only be used on a professional auto-x vehicle, you can forget about them if you do 1/4, and that they are not worth it for their price. Read on for more info:

Ok, so these really are only applicable to a true auto-x vehicle. They allow you to stay deep in lift, so even when you exit a turn, you can pull quickly.

But if you're going street or 1/4, it seems they're more of a pain than anything else. In terms of the street, the C-One 6th gear drive ratio is the same as a stock C60 5th gear drive ratio. So with the C-One gears, when you'd be in 6th gear (like cruising on the hwy), it's as if you were driving in 5th the whole time. In terms of the 1/4, although the closer gearing makes landing lift easy, the taller first gear would make launching more difficult and the shorter 4th gear means you have to shift into 5th around or below 94mph, adding an additional shift to the end of a quarter mile run.

The C-One gearset is stronger than stock. Rumoured to be 3x as strong. But rumours are rumours and, to my knowledge, no one on this site currently has them (Law...an old school member, was supposed to have them), and if they do, does not use them in an application that would need a lot of strength (as in F/I).

@ Bham....lots of the old vets on this site don't consider the C-One gears worth it unless you're building a true auto-x vehicle. At that point, one would probably be sponsored up the ass anyway, so price wouldn't be an issue. Otherwise, for their limited purpose, they are way too expensive, and impractical.

If you want an F/I gear set, really consider going with the C2 set. It comes with an LSD too. And it's proven to be much stronger than stock (made of chromoly). Plus, it has a longer final drive so that you can achieve a greater top speed (theoretical, at least...since Celica is aero limited). Plus, it's got straight cut gears so you get that sweet Nascar vehicle sound. Although, it is a synchro-less tranny.

[aerospike2002]

FYI:

As you know, the 2ZZ is used in several different Toyota vehicles, and in the Lotus. Some of these vehicles use a C60 tranny (commonly known as the standard 6 speed in a Celica GTS) that is a little modified, so they have a little bit different gear ratios as a C60 found in the Celica GTS. And then, C-One has an entirely different gear set, and all ratios are unique.

Here's a little chart that many (the board member) came up with to show the different gear ratios of modified C60's, and the gear ratios of the C-One set.

Celica GT-S 2000+ / Lotus Elise 2004 / Corolla T Sport / C-ONE

1gear: 3.166:1 / 3.116:1 / 3.116:1 / 2.929:1
2gear: 2.050:1 / 2.050:1 / 2.050:1 / 2.176:1
3gear: 1.481:1 / 1.481:1 / 1.481:1 / 1.700:1
4gear: 1.166:1 / 1.166:1 / 1.166:1 / 1.364:1
5gear: 0.916:1 / 0.916:1 / 0.916:1 / 1.167:1
6gear: 0.725:1 / 0.815:1 / 0.815:1 / 0.916:1

Final: 4.529:1

So you can see that the Elise and Corolla T-Sport use mildly modified C60's. Strength-wise, they are still weak. I believe the Matrix XRS uses the exact same C60 tranny as the Celica GTS. And the C-One set is different in all aspects.

[BHam00GT-S]

Wow thanks for the in-depth info aero! That all makes perfect sense now.

[evil eye]

Wow thanks for the in-depth info aero!


Yeah, seriously. Nice write-up. :thumbup:

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

what kind of improvement can be expected with just the final drive ratio change

[SLOWICA]

_GTS] what kind of improvement can be expected with just the final drive ratio change

Not entirly sure but it would lengthen each gear ratio... so each gear would be affected equally by the final drive.

[superman1240]

^right like in a bike :)

[many]

So you can see that the Elise and Corolla T-Sport use mildly modified C60's. Strength-wise, they are still weak. I believe the Matrix XRS uses the exact same C60 tranny as the Celica GTS. And the C-One set is different in all aspects.

The code for the tranny is C64, and the difference is the 6th gear ratio. It would actually help you land lift in 6th making it possible to go faster.

Wouldn't the Final DRIVE gear be usefull for the 1/4 mille?(keep in mind the power FC and the Rev limit change) (NA purpose only).

[superman1240]

well, if the final drive makes the gears longer it might be better for boosted cars. as far as N/A, if the car is making good power and torque it might help. but for the semi-stock cars it might actually hurt performace.

also, with the final drive gear if it makes the gears longer it would bring us down more away from lift not above it.

[Sylver1]

I actually think the final gear is worthless, cuz it would only make the car rev faster like a lightweight flywheel, the gear set would make the car slower in 1st gear, but once you hit lift you would stay in the peak of the powerband, both combined should take care of the slow 1st gear, but I wouldnt get it unless I could rev to 10,000 rpm cuz you would have to shift faster and put more wear on the tranny and it would also make the car top out quicker. FI would be a no no.

[Sylver1]

Also, the final gear does NOT affect where you land in a given gear, only how fast you go through it, in this case it would make you go through gears faster.

[DYI01]

I actually think the final gear is worthless, cuz it would only make the car rev faster like a lightweight flywheel, the gear set would make the car slower in 1st gear, but once you hit lift you would stay in the peak of the powerband, both combined should take care of the slow 1st gear, but I wouldnt get it unless I could rev to 10,000 rpm cuz you would have to shift faster and put more wear on the tranny and it would also make the car top out quicker. FI would be a no no.

Wow...this is one hell of an uneducated statement. With a higher gear ratio it makes more torque multiplication. It also limits the top speed of each gear as well. But For an NA car this is good. With 170-180 WHP you need everything you can get. A final drive will not make the car rev faster like a lightweight flywheel, a lightweight flywheel achives its gains through reducing parasitic losses by lightening a rotating mass. This makes the engine quicker to rev up. Also the final drive will not change each individual gear ratio but it will produce an overall better and more agressive tranny than having stock gears. It will keep the original spacing of the gears, but move down the rpm at which you would have to shift and make the gearing more agressive. What does revving to 10,000 rpm have to do with shifting fast? You will never make power at that rpm with current aftermarket parts. Topping out quicker is not so bad... Have you ever topped out your car before? Like redline 6th gear? I dont think so, I have never been able to redline my top gear, 6th gear in the c60 is kind of weak, I think the final drive will help that weakness a lot.

[mtskibum16]

:werd: Get them and we can all find out!!!:)

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

are theyre any other options for the final drive than the c-one gearset ....like from another toyota tranny that we can transplant in?

[Rey_Vibora]

If you guys are interested in these, please let me know before the Beatrush G.B. ends so that we can bring it in the container from Japan.

[Sylver1]

With the gear set you will top out at around 145 on 6th gear with no room for going faster, unless you alter the rev limit, thats why I said that about the 10,000 rpm. It would also make more engine noise on the highway. I just mentioned the flywheel thing for reference, I know it will make the tranny a bit more agressive, but other then that, it will also make it rev faster. I just think its worthless to open the tranny just to put in a final gear, might as well put in the gear set also.

[kortik]

this is crazy research going on LOL

[Speed4TheNeed]

Rey, I sent you a PM regarding the final drive. Trying to decide if I just want the final drive or the entire gear set. I'm at least getting one of the two.

[Speed4TheNeed]

With the gear set you will top out at around 145 on 6th gear with no room for going faster, unless you alter the rev limit, thats why I said that about the 10,000 rpm. It would also make more engine noise on the highway. I just mentioned the flywheel thing for reference, I know it will make the tranny a bit more agressive, but other then that, it will also make it rev faster. I just think its worthless to open the tranny just to put in a final gear, might as well put in the gear set also.


I need to rebuild my tranny anyway, it grinds 2nd pretty bad and when the engine goes in all it's going to do is make matters worse. I also need to see if I can still stick an LSD in there while it's all torn apart.

[Speed4TheNeed]

Celica GT-S 2000+ / Lotus Elise 2004 / Corolla T Sport / C-ONE

1gear: 3.166:1 / 3.116:1 / 3.116:1 / 2.929:1
2gear: 2.050:1 / 2.050:1 / 2.050:1 / 2.176:1
3gear: 1.481:1 / 1.481:1 / 1.481:1 / 1.700:1
4gear: 1.166:1 / 1.166:1 / 1.166:1 / 1.364:1
5gear: 0.916:1 / 0.916:1 / 0.916:1 / 1.167:1
6gear: 0.725:1 / 0.815:1 / 0.815:1 / 0.916:1

Final: 4.529:1




It's also worth mentioning that the C-One final drive is 4.550 (4.529 for stock as you mentioned).

So the C-One 5th gear can have the same ratio as the stock 6th gear, but it's still not the same thing because the final drives are different. Or is it the same thing? Not very familiar with gearing.

What I really want to know is how the C-One final drives affects the rest of the C-One gears. I'm more intersted in acceleration than anything else..according to the 1/4.

[celicajonz]

so did anyone get the price for the entire gear set or at least final gear???

[celicajonz]

never mind.....hee-hee

[Sylver1]

Hey speed, I dont think it would help in the 1/4 mile, you have to shift more, your 60' times might get worst cuz of the longer 1st gear, getting the final will help with that, but like said before, it is more of a stay in the sweet spot kind of mod for road racing, or for very aggressive street driving,LOL. Not recomended if you have long hauls on the highway.

[Speed4TheNeed]

Hey speed, I dont think it would help in the 1/4 mile, you have to shift more, your 60' times might get worst cuz of the longer 1st gear, getting the final will help with that, but like said before, it is more of a stay in the sweet spot kind of mod for road racing, or for very aggressive street driving,LOL. Not recomended if you have long hauls on the highway.


If the extra shifting balances out with extra acceleration then it wont really hurt. I'm trying to educate myself more on where exactly the gears are..and how the final drive affects them.

[Sylver1]

Well not so true, a while back some magazine did a comparo of a stock 5 spd vs a dog engagement sequential 6 spd in a car, and the 5 spd came in a tad faster in the 1/4 and had a better 0-60 time, and thats considering that they did not lift the throttle off on the 1-2 shift on the 6 spd.
Of couse this is not on a celica but in terms, less shifting equals better acceleration.

[Sylver1]

If you want to imagine how it would be, picture shifting at redline and landing in lift at lets say 6500-7000 rpm in every gear, with your 6th being like your stock 5th but more agrresive.

[Speed4TheNeed]

^^ I need to KNOW this, not assume this. Which is the whole point of my stating this over and over again.

Where exactly would I land at an exact shift point? That's the question. 500 RPMs is a big difference.

And as far as 5 gears vs 6 gears...in the 1/4 I only use 4 gears anyway in my 6-spd GT-S (so does a GT).

[ar_00gts]

run the stock gears on gt4 then the c-one the gearing gt4 is very accurate

[BHam00GT-S]

lol video games pwns all

[evil eye]

run the stock gears on gt4 then the c-one the gearing gt4 is very accurate


If that works, I'm going to call my mom and tell her that videogames don't rot my brain.

[BHam00GT-S]

Great. So who's the guinea pig on this little 'scientific' experiment? Anybody with however much money these gears cost?

edit: With $2600 to possibly waste?

[SickCelica696]

Great. So who's the guinea pig on this little 'scientific' experiment? Anybody with however much money these gears cost?

edit: With $2600 to possibly waste?

I vote Eric

[Speed4TheNeed]

^^ Probably me.

I'm about to buy at least the final drive (100% definate). Trying to decide on the complete gear set (50/50).

LOL someone with GT4 see how it does in the 1/4 in:

1. totally stock
2. stock transmission with C-One final drive
3. C-one complete gear set with C-One final drive

LOL thanks in advance. Curious to say the least. Better than anyone ha said so far anyway.

[Sylver1]

All hail king Guinea pig.LOL.Let us know how it works out.

[Speed4TheNeed]

Man, I hate being the guinea pig..especially on something mechanical. Oh well though, we'll see.

Target date is March to get the car running again, though. It'll be awhile.

[many]

got something that might help calculating:
gear calculator (http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php?MaxRPM=7000&TireDiameter=24.68&GearRatio1=3.166&GearRatio2=2.050&GearRatio3=1.481&GearRatio4=1.166&GearRatio5=0.916&GearRatio6=0.725&FinalDrive=4.529&TireWidth=245&TireAspect=45&RimDiameter=16&MaxRPM_2=7000&TireDiameter_2=25.39&GearRatio1_2=3.133&GearRatio2_2=2.045&GearRatio3_2=1.481&GearRatio4_2=1.161&GearRatio5_2=0.971&GearRatio6_2=0.811&FinalDrive_2=4.1&TireWidth_2=265&TireAspect_2=45&RimDiameter_2=16&Calculate=Calculate%2FGraph&Compare=1)

just add in the desired numbers, the first column has allready the gears of the C60 tranny added!!

[Speed4TheNeed]

^^ Nice, info.

The C-One gearset would put you at 103 MPH at the end of 4th gear (with stock sized tires and 8400 RPM redline)

The stock gearset would put you at around 117 MPH at the end of 4th gear (with stock sized tires and 8400 RPM redline).

Assuming that trap speeds for stock (or near stock) for our cars in the 1/4 are around 90-100 MPH, I'm going to assume the C-One gearset would help in the 1/4 more than the stock gearset does. I'm shooting for a 110 MPH trap for the 1/4...I'd have to use a 65 series sidewall to get that with the C-One gearset.

There are other factors, obviously. But it looks like the gearset could even help the 1/4 crowd, not just the auto-x.

[Speed4TheNeed]

BTW, I bought the final drive instead of the entire gearset + final drive. Looks like I might need to rethink that, though.

And I don't know how they are calculating final drives in that link. Either the final drive means absolutely nothing or they're not calculating it...Because I can put whatever value I want in it and absolutely nothing changes.

EDIT--Nevermind, I got it to calculate. Not a very big difference.

I found it more useful to play around with tire sidewalls, the stock transmission can be use very well, I just wish the gears were stronger.

[Speed4TheNeed]

I really wish we had a graph where we could calculate shift points. Such as approximately where you would fall in the next gear when upshifting.

[Sylver1]

The whole thing will make you top out at 135 mph, I would have to be crazy to get it. The final gear is not that bad though, you would only have to rev about 500 rpm more to get to the stock limits.

[many]

Having the power fc and raising the rev limit to 8800 will help at the end of the 1/4 for a higher trap speed! But i'm guessing it will be a blast to drive,instant acceleration. Maybe with the full set(C-one) that mid 13s is possible with a lower trap speed.
And having the 6th gear from the C64 tranny will help out for a higher top speed with the C-one gears.

[iforu]

with c-one final dr, 6th gear, u can hit lift, redline @ 7800. rising ur top speed to 240km/h. the stock final dr canot rev pass 6000.

[Pulsar1]

Having the power fc and raising the rev limit to 8800 will help at the end of the 1/4 for a higher trap speed! But i'm guessing it will be a blast to drive,instant acceleration. Maybe with the full set(C-one) that mid 13s is possible with a lower trap speed.
And having the 6th gear from the C64 tranny will help out for a higher top speed with the C-one gears.
Can the stock valve train handle 8800rpm??

[Speed4TheNeed]

^^ I wouldn't try it. There's no power up there anyway on a stock or near stock Celica (if you have i/e/h then yes, you are still near stock).