how does a stick shift beat an auto

[9i]

Not even talking abotu Celica here. just in general : put two cars (same except one is auto and the other a stick) at the light, the auto seems to be much faster at start.

For the stick I have to release the clutch and gas at the "right time" and rev the engine at high RPM to get ready for a fast start. The auto does it automatically for you and it seems to shift much faster than a human shifting a stick. You can tell when someone is driving a stick by the delay(idle) between the shifting. So when you guys say a stick can beat an auto how is that accomplished ?

I know I know I need to goto a shifting school........:rolleyes:

[celenium]

When I first started shifting, my shifts were slower than when i had automatic but then again it could have been because I just got the car so I wanted to baby it for the first 1000 miles.

Even now that I'm experienced I am amazed at how perfectly and smoothly shifting an automatic is.

[vvtlikick]

Well, I'll be the first to admit that a automatic can be more consistent in it's launches, but reaction time is totally dependent on the driver.

And I also believe that manuals shift faster than automatics (although, I don't know how fast automatic transmissions can shift when modified for racing).

But the number one reason why a auto usually loses to a stick is the fact that the auto makes less power, although they may have the same engine, the auto wastes more power in the transmission than a manual. Of course, if you have large V8 or turbo V6, etc., you won't notice the power loss nearly as much as a 4 cyl. engine will notice it.

[Omni]

Well in our cars there are many factors that make the automatic slow, being lack of power in a 4 cylinder and the automatic robs a good portion of it and less aggressive gearing. Supra automatics actually outperform the stickshift in straight line performance, I've also heard that camaro automatics are generally faster in the 1/4th mile. But on an actual race track im thinking the stick is going to have advantage of being able to select a gear for better handling through a turn. But im no expert, this is just what I've gathered from others talking about it.

[RedNOSceli]

Manuals are "Usually" faster then autos because they have more gears and thus enables the engine to stay in the power band longer...

Automatics shift faster then any manual. The time it takes to shift is about the "Blink of an eye" but they also take more power to run.

If you have have two tranny's, both 4speed, say an (auto)GM 700r4 and a (manual)Supper t-10 running the same gearing through all 4 gears, ansd say its a 400hp firebird, then the auto will not only be faster due to instant shifts, but more consistent, and with 400hp, the extra 10hp it takes to drive the auto will not significantly effect the time.

Auto's are faster with the correct gearing, but on imports, id go with a manual due to more gears and the small amount of HP and torque.

[daSchtick]

Originally posted by 9i
Not even talking abotu Celica here. just in general : put two cars (same except one is auto and the other a stick) at the light, the auto seems to be much faster at start.


The manual transmission provides a direct connection from the engine to the driving wheels, while an automatic will always lose some power due to slip in the torque converter, which translates into power loss through heat. The only time that an automatic is not losing power due to slip, is when to torque converter is locked, causing a direct connection through the transmission. The only time the torque converter locks, is when you are cruising at a fixed speed, usually above 35-40 MPH. The purpose of the lockup torque converter is to help mileage, by eliminating this slip in the torque converter.

If a torque converter causes power and mileage loss by slip, then why have it? Because it is needed to allow you to stop the car without taking out of gear. Without it, the car could not stop without the engine stopping, similar to not depressing the clutch in a manual car. This slip also smooths the shifts between gears also.

Hope this helps!

-Nick

[t2000gts]

an automatic transmission tuned/built for racing purposes can be at least as if not faster than a manual.

1) hook up better on launches with more powerful engines

2) easier to get better R/Ts

3) can be programmed to shift harder/faster than any person at any precise RPM

4) keep throttle open during shifts

5) consistency

that is for drag racing. you will NOT find that kind of an automatic on any production car. all the automatics are tuned for LUXURY. and will shift smoothly and slowly, and suffer from more drivetrain loss because they're mated to non-high power engines (celica automatics are a case in point).

for road racing, manual's still the transmission of choice, and will be for a while. until the 'f1 paddle shifter' types get down into production cars ('automatic' manuals). even then, those aren't tuned for racing (i.e, you can't launch usually, and they don't shift as fast as the F1 cars obviously).

i heard FIA was looking into all-automatic gearboxes for Formula 1. while this would, temporarily, turn the sport upside down on it's head, IMHO, i believe the best potential for speed and fastest times would be with automatic shifting and the driver using precise feathering of throttle/brakes. you have a lesser margin of error when racing at the limit, and a bigger margin when doing...horrible i guess.

[vvtlikick]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
Automatics shift faster then any manual. The time it takes to shift is about the "Blink of an eye" but they also take more power to run.I don't think this is true. I remember reading something about automatics taking a full second to complete a shift. It is true that a automatic doesn't experience the dramatic torque interuption that a manual features (thus the smooth shift), but I think they shift pretty slow.

And in my personal experience, I think I remember the tach takes alot longer to reach the target rpm in the next gear than a manual, but it's been awhile since I drove an automatic (:)), so I might be wrong.

Of course, hot rodded automatic transmissions may be a different story altogether.

[vvtlikick]

Originally posted by t2000gts
an automatic transmission tuned/built for racing purposes can be at least as if not faster than a manual.

1) hook up better on launches with more powerful engines

2) easier to get better R/Ts

3) can be programmed to shift harder/faster than most people at any precise RPM

4) consistency

that is for drag racing. you will NOT find that kind of an automatic on any production car. all the automatics are tuned for LUXURY. and will shift smoothly and slowly, and suffer from more drivetrain loss because they're mated to non-high power engines (celica automatics are a case in point).

for road racing, manual's still the transmission of choice, and will be for a while. until the 'f1 paddle shifter' types get down into production cars ('automatic' manuals). even then, those aren't tuned for racing (i.e, you can't launch usually, and they don't shift as fast as the F1 cars obviously).

i heard FIA was looking into all-automatic gearboxes for Formula 1. while this would, temporarily, turn the sport upside down on it's head, IMHO, i believe the best potential for speed and fastest times would be with automatic shifting and the driver using precise feathering of throttle/brakes. you have a lesser margin of error when racing at the limit, and a bigger margin when doing...horrible i guess. Just so everybody understands, F1-style gearboxes are full manual-style transmission (uses a clutch, not a torque converter), they're just controlled by computer.

The only production cars with a computer controlled clutch (in the US) that I know of are: Ferrari F355 F1, Ferrari 360 Modena F1, Toyota MR-2 Spyder SMT.

[celica gte racing]

well, stick an auto and a manual on a circuit and its bye bye auto...

[RexPokinghorn]

Originally posted by celica gte racing
well, stick an auto and a manual on a circuit and its bye bye auto...

Well, that all depends on the driver ;)

[Elik]

f*ck it
trading my manual for auto and tuning it:)
will have free hand and leg:) and will not mess up my launch:)

why the hell did i learned how to drive stick:confused:

ehheheheh;)

[celica gte racing]

Originally posted by RexPokinghorn


Well, that all depends on the driver ;)

nahh, if you had a manual you can constantly stay in the power band especially on the curves where you can downshift to the appropriate gear when u want...