June Sport Compact Car: Interesting Bit of info In An Otherwise RSX-Dominated Issue.

[Keyshawn]

Great issue for RSX fans. There is massive coverage on the explosion of aftermarket parts for the RSX. However, in the letters section, there's a line from one of the editors saying that the next issue of SCC(July 2002) will feature a detailed article about the installation of the XS Engineering turbo kit and intercooler for the Project Matrix.

On page 30, it says in reply to some reader mail:

"Tune in next month, Neil. We will cover the turbo and intercooler installation on our Project Matrix in detail"

[Bo]

Dope.

[t2000gts]

what's up with that mag comparison between the hotchkis celica and the evo and some other car? is that SCC too? which issue?

[Lomeinhu]

I hope you don't mind me putting the following info in your topic, Keyshawn, but it's just so we know where the "competition" is.

There were 7 tuned RSX's: GReddy, TODA, DC sports, FAL, Comptech, Progress Group, and Acura. Three others didn't show: HKS, AEM, and the CART PPG pace car (essentially a Type R).

Before I get to the specs, I think the main thing that concerns us Celica owners is the fact that Acura participated in the test. This is an indication of how in-tuned (no pun intended) Honda is to the compact sports cars segment. It's a huge morale boost for Acura and Honda lovers, b/c it's a great sign that Honda isn't just gonna sit back and let the money roll in. I don't think this is the case for Toyota. Maybe I should add this article into my letter (it's coming, it's coming...)

Here are just a few of the important numbers:
1. Stock: 172 hp, 124 lb-ft (to the wheels); 0-60 6.9 sec; 1/4 mile 15.0 sec @ 94.5 mph; 0.84g lateral grip; braking distance 133 ft.

2. GReddy- turbocharged (TD05H-18G for those of you who need to know), exhaust manifold, intercooler, I/E, Greddy's new E-Manage piggyback fuel management; Tein coilovers; 243 hp (to the wheels), 175 lb-ft; 0-60 5.7 sec; 1/4 mile 13.7 sec @ 108.4 mph; 0.86g lateral grip; braking distance 60-0 127 ft.

3. Flex-A-Lite- NOS, B&G coilovers, I/E; 225 hp, 184 lb-ft, 0-60 5.6 sec; 1/4 mile 13.7 sec @ 104.8 mph; 0.93g lateral grip; braking distance 116 ft.

4. Progress group-progress suspension (springs and roll bar), stock performance except 0.99g lateral grip

5. Acura - different set of Progress suspension (closer to stock than Progress's own car); stock performance except 0.96 g lateral grip

6. DC sports- I/E, DC header; H&R Springs, DC tower bars, project u calipers; 188 hp, 132 lb-ft; 0-60 6.7 sec; 1/4 mile 14.9 sec @ 95.6 mph; 0.88g lateral grip; braking distance 122 ft.

7. TODA racing - injen intake, TODA header, Comptech exhaust; TODA coilovers; TODA flywheel, clutch; looks the best so i'm including the kit stuff: JDM Type R body kit and wing and headlights, TC Spoilers CF hood; 0-60 6.4 sec; 1/4 mile 14.6 sec @ 95.8 mph; 0.93g lateral grip; braking distance 132 ft.

well, there you go. The specs are impressive. I'm not gonna complain about any lack of stuff for the Celica, but I do wish there are more companies supporting it like the RSX, just so we get more recognition. Acura knows that it needs to do things like this to stay on top. Good for them.

[Lomeinhu]

oh, BTW, there's another article about the Corolla T-Sport in Europe. It's a bit disappointing, but here's a neat bit: SCC says that "Toyota is justfiably proud of the technology behind its flagship performance engine." Well, the "flagship" part's a little debateable, but it's probably the most advanced one here in the U.S. (or in Japan, i don't know). Just wished that Toyota will stand behind this flagship engine a little more.

[HilfigerCelica]

Impressive indeed. Those guys were very close to hitting 1G on the skidpad. And that Greddy RSX should give a few Mustangs a bloody nose.

[t2000gts]

sounds like good stuff for the rsx. too bad aftermarket companies don't see as much potential in the GT-S, even though


1) XS Engineering celica - ~250hp at the wheels w/7.5psi on stock motor, stock ecu.

2) 50 shot of NOS by larryd - 13.9 @ 104-105 (which was it?) w/ok launch...by BryanH 13.12 @ 106 w/good launch.

[gilboman]

hum..the rsx issue was good..but even with all those mods...theyare only slighlty if not even with stock celicas... and they don't come close in braking still.

talking about mustangs...the new 2004 one was in automobile... retro style...looked ok imho.... the base version gets a 215bhp 3.0 v6 DOHC...and a 5.0 V8 variation good for 400bhp+ ....

[ceLL-ILL-cA]

is it me or do those times seem slow? compared to other celica times posted here...billy brun 14.1@??, mayflyn (the dude wit the gt) 14.7@?? i thought the rsx would be hitting 13s wit all the after market parts they have

[red97gsr]

Originally posted by ceLL-ILL-cA
is it me or do those times seem slow? compared to other celica times posted here...billy brun 14.1@??, mayflyn (the dude wit the gt) 14.7@?? i thought the rsx would be hitting 13s wit all the after market parts they have

You're forgot to subtract the 'magazine times' correction factor to those times. Remember, 99% of all mag times seem slower than what is possible in real life. Just compare magazine GTS times to the fastest times that have been posted on this board.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

.99 G's is impressive. I wonder if they will break the G mark like the celica did? I think I saw in a review somewhere that the TRD celica got .98 G's, but .99 is damn impressive.

[Keyshawn]

Yeah, I was gonna post the info about the RSX, but it would've taken too long for me to type up all that dope aftermarket info! Damn, that GReddy turbo kit is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I want for the Celica. Nothing too outrageous, just 240+ hp to the wheels and 13 sec 1/4 mile performance. If they can deliver that kit for a similar price as their other turbo kits (about $4,000 with intercooler), those guys deserve mad props.

[atehrani]

What is also interesting about that issue is the Toyota Corolla T-Sport. It is basically a competitor to the Honda Civic Type-R. It has the 2ZZ-GE motor and our gearbox. So that makes another vehicle with the 2ZZ-GE. They've got to start making some parts.

[Keyshawn]

I was just reading the article in SCC (with envy) about GReddy's turbo kit for the RSX. Here are some specs.

243 hp to the wheels
175 lb-ft of torque to the wheels
5.7 sec 0-60, 13.7 1/4 mile
108+ mph trap-speeds in the 1/4 mile indicate that with the right tires and/or suspension, this car could've hit low 13's/high 12's.

The turbo kit, according to reps at the SEMA show, boosts about 7 psi and is EXACTLY the kind of product I want for the Celica. I think I've found a way that this kit may help us Celica owners. Check out this link for info: http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19989

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by atehrani
What is also interesting about that issue is the Toyota Corolla T-Sport. It is basically a competitor to the Honda Civic Type-R. It has the 2ZZ-GE motor and our gearbox. So that makes another vehicle with the 2ZZ-GE. They've got to start making some parts.

all the corollas with the 2ZZ are basically the same platform. as is the Matrix (officially called 'Corolla Matrix'). so yeah, it has been helping there's more attention on the matrix now from TRD and other companies now have two cars aimed outright at the sport compact tuner demographic to think about.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by atehrani


What is also interesting about that issue is the Toyota Corolla T-Sport. It is basically a competitor to the Honda Civic Type-R. It has the 2ZZ-GE motor and our gearbox. So that makes another vehicle with the 2ZZ-GE. They've got to start making some parts.




Nice little article. Its 8250 rpm redline shows that they aren't worried AT ALL about misshifts and blown engines with the 2zz in Europe. However, WHY is it so heavy? It's not that big, yet it's curb weight is 150-250 lbs more than a Celica, and is about the same as a Matrix?

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by t2000gts
what's up with that mag comparison between the hotchkis celica and the evo and some other car? is that SCC too? which issue?

The issue that features the Hotchkis Celica is supposed to come out in a couple months.

[atehrani]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Nice little article. Its 8250 rpm redline shows that they aren't worried AT ALL about misshifts and blown engines with the 2zz in Europe. However, WHY is it so heavy? It's not that big, yet it's curb weight is 150-250 lbs more than a Celica, and is about the same as a Matrix?

Probably for NVH. I bet you that mis-shifts are unheard of in Europe. I still wonder, which shift gates you think it has? The 2000 or the 2002?

So to recap, the tally for the number of vehicles that have the 2ZZ-GE are

1. Celica GT-S
2. Pontaic Vibe
3. Matrix XRS
4. Corolla T-Sport
...

When are the major aftermarket parts going to arrive? Hello TRD??

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by atehrani


So to recap, the tally for the number of vehicles that have the 2ZZ-GE are

1. Celica GT-S
2. Pontaic Vibe
3. Matrix XRS
4. Corolla T-Sport
...

When are the major aftermarket parts going to arrive? Hello TRD??

Well, we know that Celica sales have kinda flattened out after that great first year. Anyone have any official sales figures for the other cars, especially the Matrix and Vibe? The more of those on the road, the better for us. Hopefully they're selling well, however, I haven't seen many Matrices (Matrixes) in my area, and I've NEVER seen a Vibe on the road yet.

[X-EVIL-X]

are celica's out selling rsx's still?

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by X-EVIL-X
are celica's out selling rsx's still?

Interesting question. Anybody have official sales figures for the RSX, just for comparison's sake?

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by lomeinhu

Here are just a few of the important numbers:
1. Stock: 172 hp, 124 lb-ft (to the wheels); 0-60 6.9 sec; 1/4 mile 15.0 sec @ 94.5 mph; 0.84g lateral grip; braking distance 133 ft.

2. GReddy- turbocharged (TD05H-18G for those of you who need to know), exhaust manifold, intercooler, I/E, Greddy's new E-Manage piggyback fuel management; Tein coilovers; 243 hp (to the wheels), 175 lb-ft; 0-60 5.7 sec; 1/4 mile 13.7 sec @ 108.4 mph; 0.86g lateral grip; braking distance 60-0 127 ft.

3. Flex-A-Lite- NOS, B&G coilovers, I/E; 225 hp, 184 lb-ft, 0-60 5.6 sec; 1/4 mile 13.7 sec @ 104.8 mph; 0.93g lateral grip; braking distance 116 ft.

4. Progress group-progress suspension (springs and roll bar), stock performance except 0.99g lateral grip

5. Acura - different set of Progress suspension (closer to stock than Progress's own car); stock performance except 0.96 g lateral grip

6. DC sports- I/E, DC header; H&R Springs, DC tower bars, project u calipers; 188 hp, 132 lb-ft; 0-60 6.7 sec; 1/4 mile 14.9 sec @ 95.6 mph; 0.88g lateral grip; braking distance 122 ft.

7. TODA racing - injen intake, TODA header, Comptech exhaust; TODA coilovers; TODA flywheel, clutch; looks the best so i'm including the kit stuff: JDM Type R body kit and wing and headlights, TC Spoilers CF hood; 0-60 6.4 sec; 1/4 mile 14.6 sec @ 95.8 mph; 0.93g lateral grip; braking distance 132 ft.


Thanks for the good info. Interesting that only two of the 7 are faster than SCC tested a stock ITR (the turbo and the one with NOS).

[Lomeinhu]

I'm guessing Matrix sales depends quite a bit on the demographic. I have already seen a silver, red, a blue, and a white matrix around here (New Brunswick, NJ). THe Toyota Dealer in Morristown, NJ, also carries 3 Matrices, incl. one XRS, which is a great deal more than the Celica GT-S's that they carry.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by atehrani
What is also interesting about that issue is the Toyota Corolla T-Sport. It is basically a competitor to the Honda Civic Type-R. It has the 2ZZ-GE motor and our gearbox. So that makes another vehicle with the 2ZZ-GE. They've got to start making some parts.
But with the body styles being different, different piping schemes will have to be developed. It's definitely better to have this happening, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a lot of parts. A SC or turbo that fits in the Corolla or Matrix won't necessarily fit in the Celica.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

But with the body styles being different, different piping schemes will have to be developed. It's definitely better to have this happening, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a lot of parts. A SC or turbo that fits in the Corolla or Matrix won't necessarily fit in the Celica.

True, but piping is relatively easy to fabricate. As long as the exhaust manifold is the same (which it should be with the same engine), we'll be fine. And cams and other engine goodies can definitely work for all of us.

[Jesse IL]

I thought the most interesting car was the FAL/1320 motorsports one with the nitrous system. Combine a good nitrous system with the TECIII from the other thread, I think I'd rather have that than a turbo. That car was just as fast as the Greddy car. You have power when you want it, don't take a fuel mileage hit during normal driving, and still get the awesome sounds from the engine. My car may not be the fastest around, but I get a big smile every time I hit the second cam with my intake/exhaust combo.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Jesse IL
I thought the most interesting car was the FAL/1320 motorsports one with the nitrous system. Combine a good nitrous system with the TECIII from the other thread, I think I'd rather have that than a turbo. That car was just as fast as the Greddy car. You have power when you want it, don't take a fuel mileage hit during normal driving, and still get the awesome sounds from the engine. My car may not be the fastest around, but I get a big smile every time I hit the second cam with my intake/exhaust combo.

One of the reasons it was as fast as GReddy's car is that it had a stickier, lighter wheel and tire combo. If those were equal, the GReddy car will smoke the FAL car in a straight line (since suspension mods for GReddy's car were minimal).

[djm221]

That TODA RSX also had cams, and it still only managed a 14.6 Pretty sad. And SCC is usually pretty good at getting decent times. They got a 14.9 with a 2001 stock Celica.
That whole RSX thing just reconfirmed what I already knew; despite the aftermarket issue, the Celica is still the better performing car in pretty much all categories.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


True, but piping is relatively easy to fabricate. As long as the exhaust manifold is the same (which it should be with the same engine), we'll be fine. And cams and other engine goodies can definitely work for all of us.
I'm not sure if the Corolla and Matrix models will be enough to bring out a selection of cams or not. Time will tell. Intakes and exhausts are pretty common and frequently purchased. Not that many people upgrade to new cams.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by djm221
That TODA RSX also had cams, and it still only managed a 14.6 Pretty sad. And SCC is usually pretty good at getting decent times. They got a 14.9 with a 2001 stock Celica.
That whole RSX thing just reconfirmed what I already knew; despite the aftermarket issue, the Celica is still the better performing car in pretty much all categories.
At least until Honda decides to release the Type R version here. Probably in a year or two. I wonder if the current Celica will even be around by then. Toyota seems so bent on selling the Matrix, maybe they'll just do that.

[djm221]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

At least until Honda decides to release the Type R version here. Probably in a year or two. I wonder if the current Celica will even be around by then. Toyota seems so bent on selling the Matrix, maybe they'll just do that.
That is true.
Maybe Toyota will keep the price difference between the Celica and Matrix, and do something to really differentiate the Celica's performance to compete and beat the other sport compacts... and maybe they won't. My money is on the "won't"

[Vroom_Vroom]

the new Super Street mag has nothing but RSX's now :**(

[yakkosmurf]

I guess we'll see how the RSX does in the aftermarket. Personally, I think it's got too much luxury and is aimed at too high of an income bracket to do as well as the Civics and Tegs. I'm interested to see though.

[Keyshawn]

The RSX is getting TONS of coverage from all the import mags. Hopefully, we'll get at least a little time in the spotlight in July's SCC (XS Engineering-turboed Matrix article) and in August's SCC (Hotchkis Celica article). Anyone know when Turbo Magazine plans to publish some articles about their Celica w/ the Blitz SC? That should be interesting, also.