VVTL-i

[TypeSzH]

What is lift? Is it the same thing as engaging vtec in a honda? Everyone talks about hitting lift and staying in lift same thing as hitting vtec and staying in vtec after a shift right? Just wondering.

God of all variable valve timing is BMW wit their Double VANOS and another gadget they have for the engine. Right?

[GTS LAID]

i'm not too sure if VTEC uses a different cam profile altogether but thats what lift does... at a certain range of setting (temp, oil pressure) the cam switches from a normal profile to a more aggressive profile for the Intake and exhaust valves.. its quite nice <_____ major understatement.. hehe.

[TypeSzH]

Okay same thing as Vtec

[YOshi31]

not really its similar but not the same vtec would be more similar to vvt-i not vvtL-i cuz the "L" give the car a greater lift at higher rpms and the way the 2zz engine was made it kicks harder MUCH harder than v-tec

[TypeSzH]

So its not as smooth as Vtec? Just more noticeablely fun. But its the same basic idea.

[YOshi31]

yes same idea as v-tech only vvtL-i has more technology put in to it. its also better than i-vtech cuz i-vtech trys to keep your gas miliage good with and intrgrated "intellegance" thus giving valve timing unnoticed even at low rpms giving your honda a ever so always a smooth ride if you havent noticed thats why its not put on the valve cover in the 96-00 civic ex cuz you dont dont even notice the vtech when it kicks in at 6500 rpms cuz its so smooth thats what its a commuter car! hahah sorry i used to own a civic so i know all about it well hope that helps alittle need more pm me

[TypeSzH]

I thought they don't advertise the Vtec in the Civic Ex because they don't want people to know it is in their.

[munckee]

Ok, so I am new with the whole celica thing and tonight was the first time I had it over 6K rpm. I was expecting a notable change when I hit lift, but I didn't feel anything. Is it not engaging, or does it become more pronounced as the rpm's get higher?

[GTS LAID]

you cant do it slowly... go into 2nd at around 20 miles per hour... travel for 5 seconds at 20 mph.. then floor it and keep your foot all the way down until you have to shift at 7600 rpm.

[munckee]

So if you accelerate too slowly lift doesn't engage?

[TRD StreetRacing]

trust me.......that's how i felt too........get a INJEN CAI and then u will feel the POWER at 6000........what a difference a CAI does to our carz:bowdown: :bowdown:

[scapamouche]

There are LOTS of different kinds of VTEC, so it's hard to answer 'Yes' or 'No'

VVT-i has infinitely cvariable timing on the intake cam. It can be adjusted to ANY position over a wide range (about 40 degrees of crankshaft timing, I think) to maximize power or economy or emissions, depending on what the computer thinks you want.

i-VTEC has this feature, too. It might have it on both cams, too, but I'm not sure.

VVTL-i works like VVT-i, but also adds a second cam lobe for each pair of valves on both the intake and exhaust cams. Once 6000 rpm is reached, and the other conditions are met (like coolant temperature) oil pressure is used to insert a pin which forces the valves to follow the larger cam profile.

Several VTEC (like the B16B) and all i-VTEC engines have this feature.

VTEC engines have a multi position cam timing advance on the intake cam. It is NOT infinitely variable, but has a few (3, I think) discrete positions that the computer can choose between for the same reasons VVT-i uses.

Some VTEC engines have the timing adjust only, some have both timing and lift.

All VVT-i engines have the timing control, and VVTL-i engines have timing and lift.

I think that covers everything...

[mac340]

if you arent feeling anything munckee then either there is something wrong or you have a GT, even completely stock the lift hits hard at 6k in 1st, 2nd and under the right condition ( i.e. alone in the car with very little gas in the tank) 3rd. I dont have a CAI but i do have a K&N filter, no butterfly valve and TRD exhaust now and there is a definate improvement through the whole rev range.

[Griffin]

Scapamouche pretty much said it all - only missed 2 things :) Basically there are 3 main differences between VVTL-I and the VTEC systems that also use a multi-lobe setup on the cam.

Number one is the system used to bring the high lift cam into use. The Toyota system uses a single rocker arm with a spring loaded "pad" under the high lift cam. When the Variable lift function is engaged it uses oil pressure to shoot a solid shim under the cam, making it the primary Cam. The Honda system used twin rocker arms that get locked together by a pin that comes out of one and into teh other. Whats the diff? Not much to funsction, but from what I've seen of teh designs teh Toyota system undergoes a lot less stress on themoving parts, that lock pin in the honda is under a lot of sheering force which kinda sucks for longevity.

Number 2 is that the point at which the system is engaed is a little lower in teh RPM band on most hondas (around 4500 I think) as opposed to the Celica.

Number 3 is the most important difference - the SIZE of the cam lobes in question. The High lift cam in the Celica is just monstrous is the only way to describe it. If you ever get the chance to peek at one with the valve cover off you'll see what I mean. I mean, the Honda ones are a decent size, but teh Celica lobes would look right at home on a friggin winston cup car (if they ran overhead cams). The monstrous size of the cam suddenly coming into play is what causes the huge boost in performance you get when variable lift kicks in. I have some digital photos I would drop in here if I saw a way to do so, but instead follow this link - and click on the little deal on th left that says VVTLi - it does an OK job of explaining things.

http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/celica/performance/celica_performance.html

My only beef with the system is that it doesn't come on at lower RPMs under high load situations. Sure - drivability would suck for the non performance minded, but hell, go buy a corolla :) A throttle is binary anyhow right? You have WOT and brake.....

Griffin

[munckee]

Originally posted by mac340
if you arent feeling anything munckee then either there is something wrong or you have a GT, even completely stock the lift hits hard at 6k in 1st, 2nd and under the right condition ( i.e. alone in the car with very little gas in the tank) 3rd. I dont have a CAI but i do have a K&N filter, no butterfly valve and TRD exhaust now and there is a definate improvement through the whole rev range.

Ummm, unless they make a 6sp GT, I don't think thats the case. Not to mention that I have the original sticker from the previous owner and have run a carfax check on the vehicle. I'm also ignoring the little red thing on the back that says "GTS". Thanks though.

[DrunkenTiger]

is it possible to feel the VVTL-I when you're in a GT and not the GT-S? I thought that the VVTL-I's power in a celica was comparable to the VTEC's power in the civic si?

[Blue Bomber]

Originally posted by munckee
Ummm, unless they make a 6sp GT, I don't think thats the case.Actually, Toyota does. It's just not available in North America. Both the 5- and 6-speed transmissions are interchangeable between 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines, too.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
Actually, Toyota does. It's just not available in North America. Both the 5- and 6-speed transmissions are interchangeable between 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines, too.

Nope - the block on the 2ZZ is not the same as teh one for the 1ZZ - the bolt pattern for the bell housing is different. We ran up against this when my friend wanter to put a 2ZZ in his MR2 with the 5 speed thats in it - we couldn't do it because they didn't match up.

Griffin

[Griffin]

Originally posted by DrunkenTiger
is it possible to feel the VVTL-I when you're in a GT and not the GT-S? I thought that the VVTL-I's power in a celica was comparable to the VTEC's power in the civic si?

The GT has VVTi not VVTLi - it doesnt have the second high lift cam lobe that the GTS does. So you will not notice it kicking in on the GT because the cam timing is being continuously changed and monitored.

The GTS on the other hand you definitely feel at 6200 RPM when it kicks in because of the sudden change in cam profile.

Hope this helps

Griffin

[GTS LAID]

take a look at the VVT article posted in the performance section.. i think it does a really nice job of describing how each system works with nice graphics