Is it true about the Matrix?

[OfficeMonkey]

Is it really true about the Matrix Redline is 8400 rpms while the same year Celica GT-S's are lower? Despite having the same engine.

[jotan82]

Yes

[yakkosmurf]

Any Matrix misshift issues yet? We were seeing a whole bunch of them with the Celica at this time after its release. Just wondering. Maybe the shift linkage modification is doing the trick. Any thoughts?

[caz]

that's crap if you ask me...

[OfficeMonkey]

Has anyone swapped their ECU's with a Matrix one? It would probably be way to expensive for 500 more rpms, I'm guessing.

[djm221]

No it's not true actually. It's more like 8,200. That's what the redline is for the Celicas in Europe, too.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by OfficeMonkey
Has anyone swapped their ECU's with a Matrix one? It would probably be way to expensive for 500 more rpms, I'm guessing.
If it worked, it would actually be worth the money. Intake and exhaust probably won't increase your quartermile as much as getting that 7800 rpm rev limiter changed. I seem to recall someone offering an explanation about why this won't work. Something to do with different O2 sensors between the 02 GTS and the Matrix. The ECUs are not identical.

[GTS LAID]

the new european corolla T-sport gets the 2zz motor and c60 tranny (the gts stuff) and has a red line at 8,250

[racinjason]

Bottom line: US 02+ Celica GT-S owners get screwed!! Matrix, Corolla Tsport get even higher redlines than the GT-S. They should have raised the redline to 8200 for the Celica instead of lower the rev limiter. What a joke.

[boxologist]

Get a V8.

[Da Kine Guy]

it's incredibly hard to misshift the revised transmission. You really have to do it on purpose if you wanna shift from 3rd to 2nd. The reduced redline was not needed, but the revised gates were (from the misshift data I have seen on this site). Although it still seems like the engine is really strained when in those high RPMs, I don't see the 2ZZ lasting very long if driven regularly in the high powerband :(

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy
it's incredibly hard to misshift the revised transmission. You really have to do it on purpose if you wanna shift from 3rd to 2nd. The reduced redline was not needed, but the revised gates were (from the misshift data I have seen on this site). Although it still seems like the engine is really strained when in those high RPMs, I don't see the 2ZZ lasting very long if driven regularly in the high powerband :(
I agree. I don't think we'll see many Matrix misshifts, partly because of the new gates. I also don't see the 2ZZ lasting very long if driven hard. But I wonder if the same thing was said of the 4A-GE when it came out with a 7500 rpm redline.

[t2000gts]

i think the 2ZZ can rev regularly to 7800rpm and last as long as any 1ZZ-FE that's revved regularly to 6800rpm...that's from the impressions i got while reading that post in the mods forum about the technical details from toyota on how it was built and reports from companies and toyota/TRD about the valvetrain. the pistons are cast iron, the cylinders are coated with nikasil, the valvetrain can handle upwards of 8500rpm, etc.

i don't see it "lasting forever" like some older toyotas, but i do see it lasting at least 150k miles, maybe even 200k miles driven "hard" often, without any modifications. after that, i bet it'll just start to lose power and run like crap, but still run...that's from several high mileage GSRs that i've seen.

and we won't see nearly as many matrix misshifts as there were for the celica. shifter's placed in a very different position, plus revised shiftgates.

either way, i plan on tuning my car right now as much for high rpm n/a use as i can (9000rpm-10000rpm or bust), then at around 100-150k miles, replace the engine, and transmission.

[yakkosmurf]

The construction of the pistions and block are just fine. It's the top end of the engine I'm unsure about. Even after reading the technical articles on it, I don't think the stock valvetrain can handle above 8500 regularly without problems.

[Humza]

please tell me that the 02 gts can still beat the matrix.

[GTS LAID]

tough call dude.. the matrix isnt that much heavier and has a better set up engine wise...

[Lomeinhu]

Wouldn't that be awful if it couldn't??

[Humza]

is the gearing the same? It wouldn't make sense for a matrix to beat a celi... cuz the celica IS toyota's top of the line sports car.

man if i ever find out who the guy at toyota that suggested the idea of a lower revlimiter on 02 celicas i will put my front tire on his crotch and drop the clutch and 4k.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Humza

man if i ever find out who the guy at toyota that suggested the idea of a lower revlimiter on 02 celicas i will put my front tire on his crotch and drop the clutch and 4k.

Hehe, I bet there'd be a line of 2002 GT-S owners lining up their cars right after you. However, I don't think that would have any affect, since the guy at Toyota USA who made that decision obviously has NO BALLS anyway.;) Look at ALL the 2zz-powered cars in Japan and Europe. No low rev-limit bull$hit there.:burnout:

[djm221]

Originally posted by Humza
cuz the celica IS toyota's top of the line sports car.


It is? I disagree, especially since it isn't even a sports car at all. MR2 Spyder would get that "award". Pretty sad when the fastest cars in your US line-up can't break 6.0 0-60 or even close to 14 sec. 1/4 mile times (and I am including Lexus).

[racinjason]

The Spyder is the limited edition roadster. Not even in the same class as the Celica. I think most people feel the Celica currently is the flagship sports coupe for Toyota.

The engine and drive train should last a good 150-200 miles. Even the top end. And at the rate I am going I'll get there in about 50 years.

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf
The construction of the pistions and block are just fine. It's the top end of the engine I'm unsure about. Even after reading the technical articles on it, I don't think the stock valvetrain can handle above 8500 regularly without problems.

i dunno, maybe the engine just has PMS...there's M SPEC with the 8500rpm rev limiter (from his Apex'i Power FC) and he's had zero problems so far...

most people who rev their 00-01 GTS 6-speeds to 8300 (or 8400 depending on who you believe) everyday haven't had bent valves unless they misshift or some other problem.

i'm more worried about things like the oil pump and the need for a better harmonic dampener maybe at super high rpms.

[iDRIVE]

Celica toyota's top of the line sports car:confused: . In the US Id say yes, but in japan NO.

With all the blown motor caused by mis-shift gives the 2zz a fragile impression. Against 12 yr old engine such as B series Id agree that the 2ZZ is sub par. Honda had 12 yrs to revise and develope the B series. I dont know how long the 2ZZ have been on the R&D, but no matter how long it have been there it wouldnt compare to 12 yrs on the market.

I think Toyota is backing out of the 2ZZ. I wouldnt be surprised if the next gen celica wont have the 2ZZ.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by racinjason


The engine and drive train should last a good 150-200 miles. Even the top end. And at the rate I am going I'll get there in about 50 years.
Very confused here. I think they are good for much longer than that.

[gts24]

Originally posted by iDRIVE

I think Toyota is backing out of the 2ZZ.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


If this were the case, why even introduce yet another set of cars based on this engine.

1. Celica
2. Matrix
3. Vibe
4. Corolla Hatch euro.

WHY????? that makes no sense. I would think they will be doing a lot with this engine in the very near future.