VMP Report

[NoCones]

Results not up yet, but a prelim report:

Aaron and I put Koni's on the rear of my car in the morning...the rain ended right on time...now I'm koni-fied on all corners. (Aaron...please save some of that Skyy for the Pro :naughty:

We also bled the brakes, but I still have more "mush" than I'd like...anyone have any commentary on whether that might be due to rear drums or ABS? Aaron and Scott both have better pedal feel with their non-ABS GT-S's.

We ran Ecsta's up front and BFG's in the rear...led to some interesting results, significant understeer even with the rears at full stiff. After 4 runs each, we had the pressures worked out to balance the car pretty well. Here's how I recall the top of GS shaking out:

GH Sharp (with good Koni's, I presume) on Hoosiers: 54.4xx
Mark Chiles (who arrived in a Cooper but drove GH's car): 54.7xx
Me: 54.9xx
Aaron: 55.1xx

Pretty pleased with how the car felt...can't wait to slap some Hoosiers on it now!

Bryan

[autxr]

Sounds like fun to me. Much better than the whole hot water heater thing...

Any GTS's out there? Who won the GT vs GTS battle.


The mushy pedal may be air, might be the drum brakes. Are the rear brakes adjusted properly? There is a little dial to get the shoes close to the right position. How far does the e-brake handle go up? If it is all the way, then the rear brakes probably need adjustment.

Scott

[scapamouche]

I noticed that the ABS cars do have a bit softer pedal then the non ABS cars. I test drive a non ABS car, and I loved the tight pedal, but was slightly disappointed when mine arrived at the dealer with the softer pedal. All the other ABS cars I've driven have a similar pedal feel, but the brakes work great....

[NoCones]

Most definitely more fun than fighting a hot water heater!

Ken Stern was there in a GT-S...I think his fastest raw time was 55.2xx, but he coned it away...not sure what his fastest clean time was. Aaron's buddy Jim ran Aaron's car...I think he ran 55.7xx? (on aging Kumho's). I think we may have beaten all of DS. I know Top Hoppe ran in the 54's, but he had significant cone trouble.

The e-brake is pretty tight...so much so that Aaron actually commented on it.

Bryan

[silver2001gts]

That was a very technical course, with lots of tight, pinched turns and offset gates. My coned run was a 55.299, and my clean run was ~56.2. I just nicked the cone in the tight slalom, so I know a clean 55 was easily do-able. A prepped GT-S with a great driver could have hit low 54s. Mine has stock shocks (34k miles) and Kumho V700s. Was GH's car on Hoosiers or Kumhos?

I'll post the results on http://vmsc.org as soon as the scorer sends them to me.

The upcoming ProSolo should have fewer tight turns. The AWD beasts will have an advantage at the start, but it should be a good event for the Celicas, especially in G-Stock.

As for brakes, my non-ABS GT-S has a firm brake pedal and I have no complaints about the brakes at all, other that I tend to skid a bit at autocrosses.

[NoCones]

I didn't like that course a whole lot. 3 slaloms all at about the minimum 15-16 paces is kind of abusive. And there were few turns that just didn't seem to flow well...most notably the right-hander into the 5-cone slalom.

GH was on Hoosiers, 225 all around, I believe.

I'll be curious to see the PAX results...I bet there are 4 GS'ers in the top 10. :burnout:

Bryan

[silver2001gts]

The course was a little strange, and those slaloms were abnormal at best. The kink at the finish with the oily, wet asphalt was the kicker. Any other course comments or safety issues? I can pass the info on to the VMSC Competition Committee.

The May 12th VMSC event course will be designed by Tim Aro and Rod McGeorge, so expect a very nice course that day.

[pitcrew]

Our 205's weren't up to the task Sunday. It was a VERY hard course to get a handle on, one or two fetures too many for the space. Really disliked the last gate before going into the finish. None of the sweepers were a constant radius. Driver managed a respectable 56.5 for fifth, but the best I could do clean was a 57.0. That long tight slalom was the undoing of many. I look forward to Tim and Rod's course!

PS: Mark C. did a 54. as well, GH beat Mark by only .022.

[B1mmer]

The course was a little unusual as far as the flow was concerned, but it was a good tune up for the upcoming Pro. I had a slight concern on the launch interval being used, for it put a car entering the final finish gate going towards the other car on course in the sweeper prior to the 5 cones slalom.

15 pace slaloms are fine for cars like the celica that turn in well, but for cars with manual racks or ones that need a lot of steering input (like a WRX), it can be awful. I still had fun abusing Bryan's car though.... - Aaron

[silver2001gts]

Unofficial results are posted at http://www.vmsc.org/results/2002/2002_04_28/index.html and that page has a link to the PAX index. Holy cow, 8 Celicas in the top 16 PAXed spots! Go us.

[NoCones]

ok, looks like my memory was a bit of on some of those times.

Maybe it's because I wasn't even there...where are my results, Ken???? :wtf:

Bryan

[B1mmer]

Hoppe hit a cone on his last run too.... I witnessed it, but a few cone penalties were missed. - Aaron

[pitcrew]

There was a computer problem (crash) in the last round. GH's first three runs were all 55's, not 54's. His 4th run's time is correct and was his fastest. It doesn't change the finish order any, but just gives the correct difference in his and Mark's times.
Bryan, I think your 01 number was below the radar screen, or else your times were credited to Bo & Luke Duke. :D

[B1mmer]

Charles,
Are your 205 Hoosiers done for? Flipping them at about half life will give you the best life for them. Bryan and I were running 205's all around (the mix and match set), and overcooked the Ecsta's up front on the last couple of runs. After the car was sitting for about 3 minutes or so, I took tire temps on the front, and they were in the mid to high 140's across the tire... I guess that explains the lack of grip I had on my last run. I'm looking forward to putting on the new Hoosiers. I can guarantee that I would have been well into the 54's, as long as the timing was working:gap: My third run was a 55.1, yet it shows a 55.6. I must have hit a 1/4 cone. :wtf: - Aaron

[silver2001gts]

Originally posted by NoCones
ok, looks like my memory was a bit of on some of those times.

Maybe it's because I wasn't even there...where are my results, Ken???? :wtf:

Bryan

I Dunno. Do not trust the results. They are totally screwy. They were done on a computer. Our scorer will check the hand-written score cards for confirmation.

As for missed penalties, I suspect it is the fault of novice course workers and poor radio communication. But as long as we all had fun, who cares what our times were, right? :rolleyes:

[B1mmer]

Ken you're totally right, it's all about fun. I wasn't trying to knock VMSC or anything like that. Your club has grown in leaps and bounds when compared to some events I went to a couple of years ago. With growth comes growing pains, but I was really impressed with the timer program your group's running. It's pretty slick to see your time, place in class, and if that was your fastest of the day on the timer when finishing... - Aaron

[pitcrew]

Donna and I were helping at the timer table during the last run group. The computer got indigestion and started to put the times with the wrong cars. The times on the readout board were right.
The correct times were recorded on the cards after the computer was abandoned. The times and cone penalties were transcribed off the cards quickly at supper to have results, and there appears to be a number of transcription errors introduced. I'm confident that Keath will review it all again and make the necessary corrections.

[ConeKiller]

So, What the heck was Mark Chiles doing at the VMP event? That's almost 500 miles for him to go autocrossing.... Curious minds want to know.... :)

[B1mmer]

Chiles got a job in Rocky Mount, NC. He has yet to move all his possessions from FL. He had the Mini at the event, but no extra wheels/tires. Thus, co-drive with GH was the ticket. Bryan and I will have something for he and GH if the run the Celica at the Pro.... - Aaron:thumbup:

[pitcrew]

The job in Rocky Mt is just a 3 month temp assignment. The mini was only 2 weeks old. They were going to take it to Koni last week to prototype their new sports off it, but it was postponed.
Mark then ordered Hoosiers and wheels for it, but they didn't come in in time to get them mounted for Sun. GH and Mark had run both it and the Celi the week before in Win-Salem on street tires, where they finished 5&6th in PAX with the Mini and 2&3 with the Celi. I suspect Mark and GH will co drive the Mini @ the pro if they feel it's ready.
Aaron, going to show us what y'all got for them on the 12th? They will probably be at Laurenburg and the NCAC #2 as well... Remember that was only the second time Mark had ever driven a Celi, and GH has only run it twice since replacing the blown out shocks. Donna was only a second behind you...

[pitcrew]

Aaron the Hoosiers are still OK, we just could have used the additional grip 225's would have given us. The 225's are ordered and will be broken in before the pro. We'll have the 205s flipped when we have the new ones mounted.

[B1mmer]

I won't show them anything on the 12th, for I'll be in the Spyder at that event. As for the GH and Mark, they're both very experienced drivers. Remember, this was my first time in the GT, except for the 1 time I drove your car at Sanford. Also, Donna did drive well, and yes she was only about a second slower than me, on Hoosiers. We were running Ecstas up front, and BFG R1's in the rear. For the NCAC I'm running my GTS, so thus again no comparisons. Do you want to put a wager on the Pro? How about I'll give you $50 if either you or Donna overall time is within 1.5 seconds of my overall time? - Aaron :wave:

[pitcrew]

Sorry, I have never been a betting man, so I guess we'll just have to see. I wasn't the one saying what I had, I'll be satisfied with just doing the best I can, as will Donna.

Of course I'd have to heavily consider taking a bet on you beating GH or Mark... (or even Rob or Rick) :D

[NoCones]

Originally posted by pitcrew
Sorry, I have never been a betting man, so I guess we'll just have to see.
Translation: 1.5 secs isn't enough.

I'll offer 2. :p

I'd bet on GH, Mark, Rick, or Rob, too...they're the ones to beat.

I think Aaron's just trying to say that we've gotten to a point where we think we can run with them...I was only 0.5 secs back on a 2nd rate mutt tire combo, first time on Koni rears. Give us new Hoosiers, new exhaust, and more responsive brakes for the Pro, and I don't think it's a reach to think that gap could shrink.

As for GH and Mark lacking seat time in the car as it is...puhlease...how many cars have these guys driven over how many years? Didn't GH jump into a TT or something and lap the field at Ayer last year?

:popcorn:

Bryan

[silver2001gts]

I just remembered... G.H. drove my Celica for a few laps at the February 2001 Evolution school when he was an instructor. He knows how to drive cars. It took me 10 practice laps to better his time from his 2nd lap in my car, and I'm sure he would have been a second quicker after 10 laps of his own.

Oh, BTW, there have been more reports of errors in the 4/28 results at VMP. I heard that the times from the handwritten cards will be used to overrule the computer results.

[silver2001gts]

I just received the corrected results. In DS, Tom H. did cone all his runs, so he moves to 4th. Here is G-Stock (though GH's times might still be wrong according to pitcrew):

Class: G-STOCK -------------------------------------------------------
1. G.H. SHARP 02 CELICA 55.064+1 54.274 54.048 54.465 54.048
2. MARK CHILES 01 CELICA 57.756 55.517 54.633+1 54.487 54.487
3. BRYAN HERTWECK 00 CELICA 56.647 55.937+2 54.926 55.655+1 54.926
4. AARON BUCKLEY 00 CELICA 58.402+5 56.182 55.645 56.012+2 55.645
5. DONNA FRANK 02 CELICA O/C 58.059 56.500 56.757+3 56.500
6. KEATH MARX 02 CELICA O/C 56.909 56.260+1 57.956 56.909
7. CHARLES FRANK 02 CELICA 58.031+1 58.266 57.151 57.042 57.042
8. LEE WILLIAMS 93 INTEGRA 59.030 57.842+1 58.164 58.029 58.029
9. BRUCE BARON 02 JETTA 59.465+1 O/C 59.728+1 59.038 59.038
10. DONNA MARX 02 CELICA 65.015 63.564+1 62.977+2 61.509 61.509

[scapamouche]

Where were all those Celicas LAST YEAR?!?!?!?

Well done, all.

[pitcrew]

Originally posted by NoCones

Translation: 1.5 secs isn't enough.

I'll offer 2. :p

I'd bet on GH, Mark, Rick, or Rob, too...they're the ones to beat.

I think Aaron's just trying to say that we've gotten to a point where we think we can run with them...I was only 0.5 secs back on a 2nd rate mutt tire combo, first time on Koni rears. Give us new Hoosiers, new exhaust, and more responsive brakes for the Pro, and I don't think it's a reach to think that gap could shrink.

As for GH and Mark lacking seat time in the car as it is...puhlease...how many cars have these guys driven over how many years? Didn't GH jump into a TT or something and lap the field at Ayer last year?

:popcorn:
Bryan

All I was saying was that I'd expect GH to get even faster in the GT as he gets more seat time and starts to adjust on it. His is at about the same stage of development as yours except for the tires. We'll have to see what happens @ Ft M against Rick and Rob. :D
That "unique" course IMHO was not a good gauge of what will happen at the pro...
You DID drive impressively well Sunday! (I gave you a big thumbs up as you passed the timing table, remember?)
We may have a couple things left up our sleeves as well...

[ConeKiller]

I'm not sure Rob (Carpenter) is going to make it down to Ft. Myers, though I wouldn't be surprised if showed up at the last minute.

Either way, it does look like a good field of cars down there. Hopefully I can clear my head of being Chief T&S, in order to lay down some good runs... :)

And speaking of wagers.... someone on this list still owes me $20.00 from last year... :eek: Now if I could only remember who, and what for!