ATTN: Turbo Wanters -- >Why don't some of you go Nitrous?

[cruzerz545]

Just curious why everyone is holding out on the turbo. I mean, yeah I admit if turbo came out I would get a CC and get it for sure, but why not spend $600 bucks and get a nice Nitrous kit. Everyone thinks nitrous will kill the Celica, but the nitrous is no diferent then a turbo in the aspect of internals.......

Whats your opinion on Nitrous?



-jim

[Keyshawn]

Personally, I'd want that extra power everytime I drove the car, and using NOS on a daily basis on public roads probably isn't too reasonable.

[MihoKiyo]

maybe its cuz of the fast and the furious or watever but i hate nos...and just like what keyshawn said.. i rather have power all the time then to have to press sum stupid button everytime.

[Fourgig]

Because I can't use nitrous at an autocross or on a road course.

[DnDs00GTS]

I was spraying a 50 shot with my 99 Civic Si and it made it significantly faster, but like everybody else said, it's nice to have it all the time. Plus, it's like $45 to fill up a bottle, so after 10 fill ups, you already spent $450. I had a bottle heater and a remote bottle opener, so with the other accessories, the Nitrous kit went from $500 to 850+. Also, it really sux when you pull up to an arrogant punk in a bone stock Z28, flip the switch to open the bottle, arm the system, and take off... only to find out that you have no more nitrous left in the bottle!!! ERRRRR... I hate it when that happens!!!!

[cruzerz545]

good points peeps.

[Slant]

I went with nitrous b/c

1. Easy to install/uninstall.

2. I don't want the power all the time
Horrible gas mileage. More stress on the car.

3.Only 25$ to refill, which is about every 1 or 2 months.
It adds up, but I still get 30mpg in this daily driver.

4. Best bang for the buck compared to other bolt-ons.
450$ for an exhuast(3-4hp) or 500$ for nitrous(50-75hp)

5. Low maintenance---> compared to turbo.

[ArchangelX]

LOL...45 bucks..damn what size bottle you got...mine will cost about 28 when I get mine installed.

I like it...cuz of the reasons I stated in earlier post.

1. There's not a CONSTANT strain on the engine like a T/C or S/C

2. Power when I want it, at the flick of a button.

3. Low Cost.

4. Low Maintenance.

5. EASILY REMOVEABLE without having to seriously modify any components.

6. I wanna put a big NX sticker (the one that comes with the kit) on my car. (It's like a foot wide and 6 inches tall).

7. I'm not using my trunk for jack.

8. I already bought the thing.

9. The only available option right now is to pay 6,000 plus lose my car for like a month because it has to be shipped to XS. No thanks, it's my daily driver.

Okay...so the last few weren't very serious..but the first few were the truth. :gap:

[ArchangelX]

OH...and one more definite reason.

No matter what I do to my car regarding upgrades, in some form or fashion, I will be able to use this nitrous kit on it.

If I get an exhaust, headers, new internals, what have you...I'll still be able to use the kit.

Hell...even if I get a T/C, I'll be able to use it (albeit a SMALL SHOT) to make up for the turbo lag.

It's a great investment until the T/Cs and S/Cs come out AND down to a reasonable price....and when you finally do get it installed, if you don't want it, get rid of it. How many SMART people would BUY a USED T/C or S/C? I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Gimme a new one.

Nitrous kits have a great resale value, OR you can slap it on your Corolla and kick some Celica's azz. :D

[DnDs00GTS]

I've got a 10lb bottle. Unfortunately, in the motor city, they charge 4.50 per lb.!

[ArchangelX]

Wow....didn't know you were in Detroit...LOL..that explains it.

That's probably considered for some serious crap up there..heh.

Da bastiches!!

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Originally posted by Fourgig
Because I can't use nitrous at an autocross or on a road course. :werd:

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

One Word... er... sound... PSSSSHHHHHHTTTTTT!!!!

[aZnTrD2k]

Doesn't T/C or S/C stresses the engine more than Nitrous? Like you only use Nitrous when somebody wants to race you, its not like u race every second so you wont be using your Nitrous everytime. Your turbo, that tries to squeeze 230-250hp out of your engine everytime you drive your car, doesn't that stress your car more?

Let's say given 50 shot of Nos or 6-7psi boost turbo, which one stresses the engine more?<--stupid question needs a stupid answer:D

[NSX_GTR_LM]

well, you are not going to have to rev the engine as high for daily driving on the turbo, so you can keep your engine at lower speeds. Sort of depends on your style. I only take my GT to about 4500 rpms for daily driving, unless i really have to haul ass to get on a freeway or somethin

[bgreganti]

To counter some pf the points in here... no offense to anyone, you all have your reasons, I'm just trying to be objective.

1. There's not a CONSTANT strain on the engine like a T/C or S/C

A turbo or supercharger does not put constant strain on the engine. Any additional strain would only be when you're in boost, just like nitrous.

2. Power when I want it, at the flick of a button.

Why bother with a switch, when you can just stomp on the pedal and go into boost?

3. Low Cost.

Only in the short term. If you used nitrous as often as you'd use the turbo, it'd end up costing you way more in refills.

4. Low Maintenance.

Most new centrifugal superchargers require no maintenance either. Turbos only require that you change your engine oil regularly. The one downside here is that the turbo requires cool down time if run it hard, to prevent oil coking.

5. EASILY REMOVEABLE without having to seriously modify any components.

Only partially true. With the exception of fuel management, an entire turbo kit could be removed and the original intake/exhaust parts put back in and there would be no modification at all. I can't think of any nitrous kit that doesn't require drilling the intake and tapping the fuel rail.

8. I already bought the thing.

Excellent reason. :)

From someone else...

2. I don't want the power all the time
Horrible gas mileage. More stress on the car.

Actually, a turbo will give you better mileage if you can learn to control your urges to stomp on the throttle. :D

3.Only 25$ to refill, which is about every 1 or 2 months.
It adds up, but I still get 30mpg in this daily driver.

Damn, you don't use it nearly enough. :D

4. Best bang for the buck compared to other bolt-ons.
450$ for an exhuast(3-4hp) or 500$ for nitrous(50-75hp)

Very true.

Peace.

[RedNOSceli]

To counter some pf the points in here... no offense to anyone, you all have your reasons, I'm just trying to be objective.

1. There's not a CONSTANT strain on the engine like a T/C or S/C

A turbo or supercharger does not put constant strain on the engine. Any additional strain would only be when you're in boost, just like nitrous.

**What are you talking about? When is a turbo not in boost? Idle only, any % throttle and your making pressure...turbo cars die faster



3. Low Cost.

Only in the short term. If you used nitrous as often as you'd use the turbo, it'd end up costing you way more in refills..

Turbo a Celica Turbo-$6000+ constant engine stress
Nitrous a celica- $500+ say $60 a month (two full fills which is good for 25 to 30 full quarter mile passes..at least 10 from one fill) for a year is still only $720 so it would take roughly 5years to add up to the cost of a turbo



5. EASILY REMOVEABLE without having to seriously modify any components.

Only partially true. With the exception of fuel management, an entire turbo kit could be removed and the original intake/exhaust parts put back in and there would be no modification at all. I can't think of any nitrous kit that doesn't require drilling the intake and tapping the fuel rail..

How about every single wet plate system ever made?



2. I don't want the power all the time
Horrible gas mileage. More stress on the car

Actually, a turbo will give you better mileage if you can learn to control your urges to stomp on the throttle. :D.

Hey, let's spend $6000 on a turbo and not get on it!



4. Best bang for the buck compared to other bolt-ons.
450$ for an exhuast(3-4hp) or 500$ for nitrous(50-75hp)
Very true.

Hey, you got one right.


Peace.
What a cool saying....i should end every thing with that like the gangstas do.[/QUOTE]

Oh..btw, id have a turbo if it wasnt 6k

[Finnyin]

why don't we all just compromise and freakin get both?

[icyjaws]

Originally posted by Finnyin
why don't we all just compromise and freakin get both?
Thats what i'm foing in my 2 :p

[Keyshawn]

Hmmm...as far as how much stress a turbo causes, here's some news that was revealed recently: SCC's Project Matrix broke a piston running 7 psi of boost on the stock engine. This happened even with a full engine management system (TEC II) tuned by an accomplished tuner. I think the Matrix had it's turbo for about 7-8 months before it failed. I think upgrading internals and dropping compression will be REQUIRED for turbocharging our engines, even at very low boost.

[CelicaLicious]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Hmmm...as far as how much stress a turbo causes, here's some news that was revealed recently: SCC's Project Matrix broke a piston running 7 psi of boost on the stock engine. This happened even with a full engine management system (TEC II) tuned by an accomplished tuner. I think the Matrix had it's turbo for about 7-8 months before it failed. I think upgrading internals and dropping compression will be REQUIRED for turbocharging our engines, even at very low boost.

reminds me of the SI.. i've seen B16's with 6psi blow up..

but i wouldnt put any kind of FI on this car TC or nitro. CR is too high, the engine is too new and hasnt made its mark yet, and i've read about too many people failing in their attempt..

also i've used Nitrous and an SC, and i can honestly say that the nitro does put more stress on the engine. its like being on a tredmill running a nice steady pace, then all of a sudden the crack kicks in and your running the 100m dash in 5 seconds, and then all of a sudden back to normal.. but on a good note, that stuff does clean the top of the pistons quite well...

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Don't talk about Turbo's unless you know what you are talking about.

More cars on this board have blown out from Nitrous not NOS than most of the cars on the MR2 boards.

Ive seen 2JZGTE engines with beyond 100,000 miles as well as 3SGTE engines with beyond 150,000 and they run awesome and still hold compression and boost.

Turbo's don't straight the engine unless you take it to like 50PSI then you're gona blow your engine, same as putting a 150 shot in a Geo Metro your gona kill it.

Turbo's are natural. All they do is compres the exhaust and recycle it through the intercooler where the charge is cooled and released back into the engine. Same effect as Nitrous except its not a Jet shooting a chemical into the intake.

Turbo's are proven as not only safe daily driver but, efficient. Most big Rig trucks have turbos and most city buses have superchargers.

When was the Last time you saw the metro shooting a 200 shot to get that "SAFE" power.

Honestly, I've dealt with both. Nitrous is the best "bang for your buck" but, using it that same amount as a turbo will give you another Bang that will affect your buck.

Turbo's wont last as long as stock, but put it in perspective. You get tons of power when ever you want. No worries of blowing your motor unless your stupid and kill the PSI. Safe, LEGAL, can use it at any track, can AutoX with it, makes a cool sound, and is efficient.

Oh yeah, want to hear some "NOS" stories go talk to prelude owners that get Nitrous and ask them about losing there hoods and Blowing there engines.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Hmmm...as far as how much stress a turbo causes, here's some news that was revealed recently: SCC's Project Matrix broke a piston running 7 psi of boost on the stock engine. This happened even with a full engine management system (TEC II) tuned by an accomplished tuner. I think the Matrix had it's turbo for about 7-8 months before it failed. I think upgrading internals and dropping compression will be REQUIRED for turbocharging our engines, even at very low boost.

Most definetly if you are going to Turbo a non-turbo car you must prepare the engine with Lower Compression pistons and a strong head gasket.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

No Flames intended. I just hate the fact that Turbos look bad after the Fast and the Furious came out. Now its like everyone wants "NAWWWSSSS"

[Slant]

Ok. My turn now.

Originally posted by bgreganti

1. There's not a CONSTANT strain on the engine like a T/C or S/C
A turbo or supercharger does not put constant strain on the engine. Any additional strain would only be when you're in boost, just like nitrous.

I'm not really understanding why you would not be "in boost" when you are driving unless you have the turbo to spool up real late. With a belt-driven supercharger, how would you not use it? Also, isn't having low end torque for better driveablilty one of your reasons?

2. Power when I want it, at the flick of a button.
Why bother with a switch, when you can just stomp on the pedal and go into boost?

Youre not thinking in terms of comparing the two. Of course, stomping on the pedal is easier but would you rather pay 6000$ for that convinience?

3. Low Cost.
Only in the short term. If you used nitrous as often as you'd use the turbo, it'd end up costing you way more in refills.

Short-term is correct. I'm not planning on running nitrous forever.

4. Low Maintenance.
Most new centrifugal superchargers require no maintenance either. Turbos only require that you change your engine oil regularly. The one downside here is that the turbo requires cool down time if run it hard, to prevent oil coking.

There are so many more things that can go wrong with FI than nitrous.

5. EASILY REMOVEABLE without having to seriously modify any components.
Only partially true. With the exception of fuel management, an entire turbo kit could be removed and the original intake/exhaust parts put back in and there would be no modification at all. I can't think of any nitrous kit that doesn't require drilling the intake and tapping the fuel rail.

Again, youre not comparing FI vs nitrous. Sure, you say turbo can be easily removed but is it as easy as nitrous? Can you install a complete turbo setup in few hours in your driveway? Only tools I used for my nitrous setup are an adjustable ranch, a screwdriver and scissors.


From someone else...

2. I don't want the power all the time
Horrible gas mileage. More stress on the car.
Actually, a turbo will give you better mileage if you can learn to control your urges to stomp on the throttle. :D

Ok. Please explain how you would get better gas mileage with turbo.

3.Only 25$ to refill, which is about every 1 or 2 months.
It adds up, but I still get 30mpg in this daily driver.
Damn, you don't use it nearly enough. :D

Correct. I don't use it everyday. That's why nitrous was my choice of modification.

4. Best bang for the buck compared to other bolt-ons.
450$ for an exhuast(3-4hp) or 500$ for nitrous(50-75hp)
Very true.

Thank you for agreeing there.:)

[Slant]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
More cars on this board have blown out from Nitrous not NOS than most of the cars on the MR2 boards.

Who's blown his car with nitrous here? Why are you comparing to MR2 boards?

Same effect as Nitrous except its not a Jet shooting a chemical into the intake.

Nitrous oxide is ummm... nitrogen and oxygen. Nitrogen just comes out the exhuast and we breath it. Oxygen gets burned for combustion. Do we need nitrous 101 or chemistry 101?

Turbo's are proven as not only safe daily driver but, efficient. Most big Rig trucks have turbos and most city buses have superchargers.

So you are comparing celicas to big rig trucks and city buses?

When was the Last time you saw the metro shooting a 200 shot to get that "SAFE" power.

When was the last time you saw the metro turboed with 200 hp increase to get the "SAFE" pwer?

Honestly, I've dealt with both. Nitrous is the best "bang for your buck" but, using it that same amount as a turbo will give you another Bang that will affect your buck.

You are not making sense.

Oh yeah, want to hear some "NOS" stories go talk to prelude owners that get Nitrous and ask them about losing there hoods and Blowing there engines.

Oh yeah, you want to hear some "turbo" stories. Go to any turbo car boards and you can read about the problems they have. Both modification comes with risks. Let's not forget that.

No Flames intended. I just hate the fact that Turbos look bad after the Fast and the Furious came out. Now its like everyone wants "NAWWWSSSS"

I feel the exact opposite.


No offense but your argument has so many logical falacies, youre only hurting your argument

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

You know what Slant get your stories straight. Why am i comparing us to an MR2 board and city buses... because this is a TURBO/SUPER vs NITROUS!!! DUH!!! Not a Celica vs All. Am I confusing you im so sorry how hard is it to understand that Nitrous puts more strain on an engine because its shooting a 75hp+ burst in a second vs a Turbo that slowly develops hp as the turbo spools up. logical Falacy show me one. Maybe you need to stop looking at it from a NOS RULES aspect and a umm... hes making comparisons. I usually don't flame but...

http://toyotacelica.org/OS.gif

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

BTW... i've owned 2 Turbo'd Cars... neither came with a factory turbo... one was installed by me in 7 hours, the other was a custom job. And yes I've visited other turbo sites. I'm a regular at clubwrx and mr2faq.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by CelicaLicious


reminds me of the SI.. i've seen B16's with 6psi blow up..

but i wouldnt put any kind of FI on this car TC or nitro. CR is too high, the engine is too new and hasnt made its mark yet, and i've read about too many people failing in their attempt..

also i've used Nitrous and an SC, and i can honestly say that the nitro does put more stress on the engine. its like being on a tredmill running a nice steady pace, then all of a sudden the crack kicks in and your running the 100m dash in 5 seconds, and then all of a sudden back to normal.. but on a good note, that stuff does clean the top of the pistons quite well...

Awesome analagy.

[Slant]

I thought this was a celica board and the original question was directed at celica owners who wants turbos.

Logical fallacies. Hmmmm...

More cars on this board have blown out from Nitrous not NOS than most of the cars on the MR2 boards.

That's called "false analogy", assuming b/c they are similar in some ways that they are similar in other ways

Turbo's are proven as not only safe daily driver but, efficient. Most big Rig trucks have turbos and most city buses have superchargers.
False analogy again.

When was the Last time you saw the metro shooting a 200 shot to get that "SAFE" power.
That's called "argument to the ignorance", saying something is true b/c it has not been proved fals or vice versa.

Oh yeah, want to hear some "NOS" stories go talk to prelude owners that get Nitrous and ask them about losing there hoods and Blowing there engines.
That's called "bandwagon", trying to establish something is ture b/c some people believe its true.

I usually don't flame but...
That's called "argument to the person (ad hominem)", attacking the person and not the issue.

I'm just stating facts and what I know. I didn't mean to get personal, but you sure showed your immaturity here. I thought we can have a somewhat intelligent discussion about this.
I really would hate to see this thread get closed b/c you can't support your position w/o resorting to 3rd grade name calling.

[Slant]

This is called a "discussion" You dont have to be right or wrong to be a part of it. However, I think its expected that you support your claims w/o being childish. I don't wanna digress any further from the original question, so I will stop posting in this thread. I hope that pic gets taken down and this thread doesnt get closed.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

You need to stop talking your making yourself look like an @ss by pointing the finger. I did nothing but gave my 2 cents and you came in here and attempted to judge my intelligence which surpasses yours. HUSH!

[bgreganti]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli

**What are you talking about? When is a turbo not in boost? Idle only, any % throttle and your making pressure...turbo cars die faster

Ok, this isn't a flame, but it doesn't sound like you've ever driven a turbo car or, or maybe you just never watched the boost guage in one. A turbo DOES NOT stay in boost all the time, it does turn all the time, but it does not make boost.

Nitrous a celica- $500+ say $60 a month (two full fills which is good for 25 to 30 full quarter mile passes..at least 10 from one fill) for a year is still only $720 so it would take roughly 5years to add up to the cost of a turbo

We'll never agree on this. I drive my car hard as it is. I run the car to redline at least 6-8 times a day on my trip to work for not quite 1/4 mi., plus one place where I enter the freeway and run it up to 120mph or so, pretty much every day I go to work. If I had a turbo or supercharger, I'd see boost that same 6-8 times a day. Figure 6 times a day for a week, now we're talking two refills a week, not a month. It get's expensive real fast.

Also, just like gas, I hate going to the gas station to fill up, and they're on every corner. I certainly would rather incur the cost up front for a turbo and not have to stop by the hot rod shop twice a week for a refill.

Again, this is all personal opinion. I've driven a turbo car and a nitrous car, neither of them mine, and I'd go with a turbo.

If you only use the nitrous at the track, or occasionally on the street, it's a more viable option.

How about every single wet plate system ever made?

First, I didn't know there was a wet plate kit out for the Celica. If so, I've learned something from this thread (which I haven't so far). Several people I know have drilled the intake manifold to accept the nozzles. Also, it would still require tapping the fuel rail, or getting fuel from somewhere, which isn't a big deal, just something I'd prefer not to do.

Hey, let's spend $6000 on a turbo and not get on it!

I never said "I" wanted better mileage. :) But don't blame the turbo for the bad mileage. A turbo actually makes the engine more efficient, and thus gives better mileage if used properly. If you drove around with a 100lb nitous bottle and stomped on it all the time, you'd get bad mileage too.

[bgreganti]

Originally posted by Slant

I'm not really understanding why you would not be "in boost" when you are driving unless you have the turbo to spool up real late. With a belt-driven supercharger, how would you not use it? Also, isn't having low end torque for better driveablilty one of your reasons?

Centrifugal superchargers are not my strongest area, so rather than make an ass out of myself, I'll stay away from it. I believe thay make linear boost all the time above a specific rpm, but I'm not sure.

A turbo generally only makes boost under load, whether that's accelleration or pulling a hill, it's still load. When the engine is not under load, and is just maintaining speed, it will usually drop out of boost.

Youre not thinking in terms of comparing the two. Of course, stomping on the pedal is easier but would you rather pay 6000$ for that convinience?

No, which is why I'm waiting for the cost to come down. However, for the amount I'd use it, I'd go broke filling a nitrous bottle.

There are so many more things that can go wrong with FI than nitrous.

Such as? Strictly talking turbos here, you'd have a new manifold and some plumbing. Assuming you run low boost initially, you may not need any custom fuel enrichment, just a regulator to up the pressure. Plumbing doesn't just go bad... the turbo itself doesn't just go bad unless it's abused. The fuel regulator I suppsed could go bad, but we're not talking about a lot of different parts here.

Again, youre not comparing FI vs nitrous. Sure, you say turbo can be easily removed but is it as easy as nitrous? Can you install a complete turbo setup in few hours in your driveway?

I was not comparing them in which was easier, but in which left the car the least molested. I agree a nitrous install is certainly easier.

Ok. Please explain how you would get better gas mileage with turbo.

A turbo will always get better mileage when it's not in boost. Again, frequent romps on the throttle will not make your mileage better, but niether would it with nitrous. A turbo gets better mileage because it assists the engine with air flow, even when it's in vaccum, because it's driven all the time by the exhaust.

If you drove a turbo car exactly like you drove a nitrous car when it's off the bottle, you'll get better mileage with the turbo.

Correct. I don't use it everyday. That's why nitrous was my choice of modification.

Certainly for low use, it's a good choice. But I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO


Turbo's are natural. All they do is compres the exhaust and recycle it through the intercooler where the charge is cooled and released back into the engine. Same effect as Nitrous except its not a Jet shooting a chemical into the intake.



Actually turbos do not recycle the exhaust gas back into the intercooler and engine. The exhaust gas is merely used to make the turbo spool up, which draws fresh air from the outside. Exhaust gas does NOT go back into the intercooler and engine.

Please read this and note the diagrams: http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo2.htm

[CelicaLicious]

hahaha man, there is a whole lot of mis-information, conflicting stories, and all kindsa cool **** goin on in here!!

well i think its time for my take on it.. as i said before I believe (that means in my opinion) that nitrous does put a HUGE strain on the engine, i had a 95 miata with a ZEX kit, and i stayed at the 50 shot for a while then moved up to the 65, and i could definately tell that the engine wasnt happy with that. so i took it off and bought a JRSC (jackson racing).. and that was definately better!! with a roots type blower like that it had a linear boost curve, so it was great for driving on the street.

also TC/SC dont stay in boost unless you step on it.. it is quite possible to drive without going into boost (well maybe 1-2psi)..

also like i said before, i dont plan on putting any kind of FI on this car untill all you guinea pigs have everything figured out :D

this engine is way too new, the technology put into it isnt widely known, and the damn CR is too high!! i just want to see how long some of you nitrous people last and at what level..then maybe i will put some of the giggle gas on!

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Originally posted by CelicaLicious


its like being on a tredmill running a nice steady pace, then all of a sudden the crack kicks in and your running the 100m dash in 5 seconds, and then all of a sudden back to normal..


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


And for the record, i have no trouble understanding what darkstar is saying. He seems to make perfect sense to me, so I dunno. I usually like what both slant and darkstar post, so I wont flame anyone, but maybe we should have some facts posted on the board before we start throwin sheeit around.

[Lilsupra]

Just take the proper precautions and tune yur car correctly and you should have no problems using Nitrous or a Turbo, or any type of forced induction...the reason why u see mishaps is because there are people out there who take advantage of the ease of use of Nitrous...when things explode...they blame the Nitrous, but really it was due to bad installs or the fact that they didnt read the instructions correctly...PRECAUTIONS PRECAUTIONS...remember what OODARKSTAROO said...its natural like NOS... I dont agree with DARKSTAR's claim that NOS immediately puts stress on an engine as opposed to TURBO and its slow spooling...Both will add stress to the engine no matter what....its what u call the expansion of the molecules of metal...Once your engine is built tough enough the expansion and contraction of the metal is able to withstand the Forced Induction...think about it

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
BTW... i've owned 2 Turbo'd Cars... neither came with a factory turbo... one was installed by me in 7 hours, the other was a custom job. And yes I've visited other turbo sites. I'm a regular at clubwrx and mr2faq.
Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Turbo's are natural. All they do is compres the exhaust and recycle it through the intercooler where the charge is cooled and released back into the engine. Same effect as Nitrous except its not a Jet shooting a chemical into the intake.


Sorry if this is a rude question, but how did you install your own turbo system without even knowing how turbos work? I mean, if you really did connect your piping so that the exhaust gas was fed back into the IC and engine, I don't think the car would run very well, if at all.

[bgreganti]

This is not directed at Dark Star.

It's called a bolt-on mod for a reason. I don't know if that's what Dark Star installed in 7 hours, but it doesn't sound like a custom setup.

And personally I think that's how most of the import scene is. Most of the people (ie. kids) modding their cars have no idea how it actually works. They buy it because everyone else is buying it.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


Actually turbos do not recycle the exhaust gas back into the intercooler and engine. The exhaust gas is merely used to make the turbo spool up, which draws fresh air from the outside. Exhaust gas does NOT go back into the intercooler and engine.

Please read this and note the diagrams: http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo2.htm

Sorry I didnt go into details with it.

How a turbo works exhaust gases are RECYCLED into the turbo where it spools incoming air from the entake where the air is compressed to extremely hot temperaters. The "Charge" is then sent to the intercooler where the charge is cooled and shot back into the intake. I do know what I am talking about. I have also been busting my arsh helping WC with there kit and a lot of my ideas have helped them out in many ways. Sorry I didn't go into a lot of details. I understand what you where sayin Keyshawn I wasnt specific enough.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Bottom line with this whole thing is. Cruzer has been flaming the 2ZZ and the Celica all week. I don't know if I can agree that Nitrous is better than turbo when all I've seen him post is.. I cant get a turbo for my car, I want FI in my 2zz, is the 2ZZ sh!t... I mean come on... this whole discussion is obviously a way for him to convince that getting a turbo isnt worth while.

[peleus21]

i run deisel pick ups and heavy duty machinery all the time have even drove highway haulers every one of them has a turbo as was stated above key here is they are made to handle it and they also run diesel which makes a huge difference. so i agree it would be a strong sugestion to build engine up to handle the tc/sc i do not know enough of engines but it is unfair to even compair with a car that comes stock with one with our car cuz theirs is already built up too.

i donno my .02 worth

[LaW]

Would building the engine up and then slapping on the turbo or sc produce a prolonged engine life similar to that in stock form?

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by LaW
Would building the engine up and then slapping on the turbo or sc produce a prolonged engine life similar to that in stock form?

Yes. Basically the thing that seperates us from the likes of a 3SGTE is that our blocks are aluminum vs. there Iron block. The main this is the compression ratio. If we can get our cars down to 9:1 or lower than the ability to push more PSI will come. Another key thing(s) are connecting rods.

put 3500 in a turbo and about 1500 into your engine (exluding labor fee's of course) and you could "theoretically" push a bar (14+ psi) safely.

[ArchangelX]

You guys REALLY turned this into a really poor thread...

It started off so nice and innocent, with some light quips by some of the members..but now it's like reading the National Enquirer or something. Nothing but partial facts, and meaningless lies..

Get over it...to be honest...neither is better...

You know why? Because it's all dependant on the situation and the user...

Take me for example...I'm gonna use N20 because of my situation:

1. I don't have 6,000 dollars to blow.
2. I don't RACE THAT MUCH, more like a couple times a month.
3. The install is easy as hell, and cheap too.
4. I don't need POWER ALL THE TIME, just when I want it.
5. I've already got a turbo car. :D
6. If I tire of it, I can use the N20 for SOME OTHER CAR or SELL IT.

And one of the most important reasons for me I think, AGAIN:

6. I can STILL get a Turbo or S/C and STILL USE THE N20 on it, therefore all I'm doing is making an investment in the car that can be easily recouped and reused.

Mind you..this is my situation, and my decision...either way:

1. We all agree that FI = either one of 3 things - T/C, S/C, or N20.
It's a proven fact...the only thing that we're doing with all three, is providing our engine with MORE oxygen with MORE fuel to produce MORE POWER.

Each has it's own merits..but to be honest..like I said before..it all depends on the situation and the person using it.

Each can send your engine through the hood of your car too.... :D

[caz]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
One Word... er... sound... PSSSSHHHHHHTTTTTT!!!!

:stupid: :chuckles:

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by caz


:stupid: :chuckles:

Whats so stupid about enjoying the sound of a BOV or a Turbo spooling. In my opinion its the best sound. Better than a Farting exhaust.

[celicauk]

Having experience of both Nitrous and an SC on the 1ZZ engine thought I might just see if I had anything worthwhile to add.

Nitrous -

On the up side:
Piece of cake to install/remove.
Nice and simple to setup.
Get a large storage cylinder in your garage at home and it will cost you a lot less to run the nitrous system than filling up at a shop.
Not always on meaning the car can be used as it came from the factory.

On the downside:
If its not installed right it will kill the engine.
Excessive use, ie running for ten seconds come off the throttle and give it another whack, will kill the engine.
It DOES put excessive strain on the engine and transmission/drivetrain, anything that can suddenly whack in that much power in one hit is going to hurt the car, use a progressive controller, it'll keep the engine alive.
Mention it to the insurance company and they won't touch it, at least not in the UK :rolleyes:

Supercharger -
On the upside
Not too difficult to install.
Gives a nice progressive power input.
Sounds excellent :)

On the downside
If the engine isn't prepped then bye bye engine.
Really needs a new ECU to get the best.
Also uprate the fuel system.
Is always on so no back to normal running, unless you fit a magnetic clutch.....

Now I am talking from experience here, I started out with nitrous last year (LONG before FATF), bad setup meant poor gains, changed the setup got really good gains on a 50 shot, upped the shot to 75, cracked a piston apart next day due to excessive use (see above) and not retarding ignition DOH!!!!!

Decided to go SC at that point, stripped engine, modified pistons, crank polished, rods destressed, port and polish head, reseat valves, got the compression down to 8.86:1 :) Bung it all back in car, fit SC, have a really good 1000 miles or so running in the new engine, decided to fit Haltech E6K, 6 weeks later car still isn't running as the useless fecking EMS doesn't seem to want to play ball, frustration and misery reigns supreme :(

All the engine work as done is good for 1bar boost, personally I want more but realise this will take another rework of the engine and some serious rework of the transmission. In the meantime I am going to add a turbo to the setup so I can get max boost at around 4k instead of 7k, thats a whole other thread though ;)

My point here is that if you don't want to pour money into the car, then go for nitrous, just don't buy the cheapest kit off the shelf , don't go mad with the amount of gas you use and lastly make absolutely certain it is setup correctly.

If cash is no biggy then go FI but do the engine first if you intend to go over about 6psi, at least on the 1ZZ, 2ZZ I wouldn't even want to try, thats another thread too ;) I really enjoyed the nitrous on my car and whilst the SC is great fun, I can't wait to get running again and put the nitrous back on.

And on the point of when does an SC/TC produce boost, answer whenever the engine is running. The boost gauge should be reading manifold pressure, at idle of zero throttle opening the pressure from either system will not get by the throttle plate, or if it does it nwill be so insignificant it won't affect the vacuum in the inlet. Most SC/TC systems incororate a pressure bleed off system so the built up compressed air has somewhere to go, this is why on the boost gauge at idle/low load you should be reading negative pressure.

Cheers

BTW - I think I got through that without offending anyone :)

[sammythebull]

ArchangelX and CelicaUK---u guys just summed up everything and everybodies complaints...good job giving the pros and cons of both sides... way to put some water on the fire that was in this thread!! later

[sammythebull]

one more thing...because im in the same situation as ArchangelX... would a 50 shot of nitrious be of a "safe" amount of boost for stock engine? also...wet or dry install? and which company is good to go with?

[ArchangelX]

It's looking like 50 is the norm...so far I believe most people are running a 50 shot, except for a few (who happen to be GTs) that are running a 75 shot.

I also think it totally depends on how much you use the system, if you're using it everyday..I would NOT go higher than a 50, but that's just me.

And yes..wet is pretty much the way to go. There's some important topics already in this forum about what's appropriate for our Celicas. Do a search, and you'll come up with some immediate answers to your questions.

As for which company, alotta people go with what's cheapest, which would be NOS, but NX is where I put my money, just because of the quality of their parts.

I just got finished looking at some NOS kits at Fastlane, and they don't compare to the finish on my NX GenX 2 kit.

Happy Juicin!

[caz]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Whats so stupid about enjoying the sound of a BOV or a Turbo spooling. In my opinion its the best sound. Better than a Farting exhaust.

are you dense? I was agreeing with you.

[jer925]

Originally posted by Lilsupra
PRECAUTIONS...remember what OODARKSTAROO said...its natural like NOS... I dont agree with DARKSTAR's claim that NOS immediately puts stress on an engine as opposed to TURBO and its slow spooling...Both will add stress to the engine no matter what....its what u call the expansion of the molecules of metal...Once your engine is built tough enough the expansion and contraction of the metal is able to withstand the Forced Induction...think about it


darkstar is right on taget with this one. think about, would you rather have 100 lbs. dropped on your shoulders, or a 100 lbs. lowered on too your shoulders slowly so you can account for the weight change. same with nos and a turbo. when you hit the switch nos is shot right in. no preinjection or anything, all at one time and that is a HUGE strain to the engine to take a big punch like that every time u feel like hitting the button. the turbo will build boost very quickly, but the punch is not as great as nos is. a turbo is somewhat stretched out, applying the stress little by little

[larryd]

but in retrospect to that same argument.. turbo or s/c is power all the time.. meaning more stress then only having added power sometimes?

[celicauk]

sammythebull - 50 shot is good and should be safe on the stock engine. If you want a 75 shot I would strongly suggest an ignition retard unit of some sort, not sure who makes these though.

As for stresses, I know that any FI car is going to have more power to handle than an N/A engine, this in itself is where the stress lies, however, I think that the way in which the power is delivered is what does the most damage, based on how the systems work I think the SC is easiest on the engine, then the TC then N2O.

SC Gives power from idle up in a linear form so the power is built up gradually, hence no kick back.

TC Gives a big kick of power at a fixed rev point usually around the 3500 rpm mark, so a nice kick in the spine there.

N2O should be setup to give its power at WOT and above at least 3000 rpm to be safe, this should give you a real neck jerk.

Of course in all cases it depends on what you want to achive and how much cash you have, nitrous can be softened by the addition of a progressive controller, so a lot less kick but the same eventual power with less strain.

If your budsget is limited then I would go for a 75 shot N2O wet system, with an ignition retard system, progressive controller, a minimum of a ten pound bottle and a bottle heater, that should be a lot of fun right there.

[jer925]

the turbo really wouldn't stress the engine until the engine is "loaded" or worked so the heat of the exhaust would drive the turbo so it will build boost. i guess it really comes down to it is the user would have to weigh the consequences of a big load(nos) or a couple smaller loads a day(turbo)every day.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by caz


are you dense? I was agreeing with you.

No I was agreeing with you. My mad for getting kinda jumpy... the guy with the Green Celica has been pissing me off all day.

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by jer925



darkstar is right on taget with this one. think about, would you rather have 100 lbs. dropped on your shoulders, or a 100 lbs. lowered on too your shoulders slowly so you can account for the weight change.

I see your point but I don't believe that has any relevance to a piece of machinery. An engine doesn

[ArchangelX]

Ditto on that. :gap:

Hey...RNC, what are your times so far with the shot you're running? (how much n2o?)

Oh..and I'm hopefully gonna get my license plate changed to N20HO . :D

I also just realized that your car and my car have practically everything the same..lol.

Except for the GC's..lol!!! Oh, and my kit is NX!

[jer925]

all i did is try to say something plain and simple and of course somebody has to flame me about it having no relevence to a piece of machinery. i wasn't trying to be techincal or anything.

[ArchangelX]

Er...jer925, I don't think anyone umm flamed you...heh.

Don't worry about it bud, it's just a tech discussion..if it read like that, I'm sorry bud...you know how the interent is, it's very easy to miscontrue a statement to be sarcastic, when it's not.

Don't worry about it... :D

[caz]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
No I was agreeing with you. My mad for getting kinda jumpy... the guy with the Green Celica has been pissing me off all day.

I feel ya man... he wouldn't stop pming me after I told him he ruined his celica. :rofl: .........poor celi :wtc:

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by caz


I feel ya man... he wouldn't stop pming me after I told him he ruined his celica. :rofl: .........poor celi :wtc:

Someone on Celica.net sent that pic to Beaterz.com. I was like HEHEHEHEE!!!!

[caz]

bahahahaha

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Yeah, there like stop hating blah blah blah. Trust me... no hating goin on over here.

[jer925]

i'm over it and stuff, people tend to find it hard the way i explain things sometimes!!!!