Why didn't the new MR-2 get the 2ZZ-GE?

[00 LSM GTS]

Since the new MR2 Spyder has the 1ZZ, I'm sure the 2zz would of fix too, right? But why didn't toyota do this, they could have had an answer for the s2000 if they did. both would have been Rwd Roadster Convertibles with similar power-to-weight ratios.

anyone have any ideas on this? i just got curious when i was talking to someone with the new mr2 spyder..

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

I;m honestly happy to see them keep the 1ZZ in the Spyder.

[Redline]

I dont think theres much room for a 2zz with all its components to fit in a spyder. Our engine bay is packed as it is... The spyder engine bay looked pretty packed with the 1zz. Isn't there a lot more room left in the GT than the GT-s engine bay? I'm thinking space is a major concern.

[chico]

I think it still would have been nice to see the 2ZZ in there that thing would FLY!!

[NSX_GTR_LM]

yeah it would fly. And with the harsh crossover at 6K it would fly right off the edge of a cliff. Imagine cornering in a MR car and having a 10-20 ft lb boost of torque hit the wheels, that would not go over too well. I think the MR2 needs a lower crossover if it were to use the 2zz

[M SPEC]

It has less to do with engine bay size but more to do with the type of engine resonse and handling dynamics for that type of chassis. Thats why a MR-S can supossedly out handle a Celica with less power. And thats why they have become so popular in Japan to turbo and race on circuits.

I think a 2ZZ-GE would make it quicker in a straight line but less predictable pushing it in the twisties which is its main strength. Hence the reason they probably went with the 1ZZ-FE and the with the bonus of the torque which matches well to its capable chassis.

Jason

[143hawaii]

Originally posted by Redline
I dont think theres much room for a 2zz with all its components to fit in a spyder. Our engine bay is packed as it is... The spyder engine bay looked pretty packed with the 1zz. Isn't there a lot more room left in the GT than the GT-s engine bay? I'm thinking space is a major concern.

You got it wrong dude. Our engine bays actually have way more room than the 7th gen Celicas. That's why actually making a proper fitting turbo manifold is no problem for us. The 2ZZ can actually fit in their easily no problems. A few people have done it but the question is whether it's worth it, I don't think so. I'd hate to ever try to keep that thing in lift while cornering. Also with it being midengine-rwd it's even more of a risk. I haven't driven an S2000 yet but I'd imagine it must a headache with VTEC constantly engaging and disengaging.

Just like Dark Star, I'm happy with their choice. Althought I wouldn't have minded a 3rd Gen 3SGTE or a SC'd 1ZZ :D

[celica gte racing]

its because the 2zz is not as good to drive as the 1zz.

[NoCones]

Originally posted by M SPEC
Thats why a MR-S can supossedly out handle a Celica with less power.
Ain't no "supposedly" about it.

[djm221]

Well, if you are flooring alot of power around a turn, you belong off the road. I think it belongs in the MR2, especially if Toyota would just put the cross-over at the correct RPM.

[VZV21]

A 3.0L 1MZ-FE V6 fits also

[NoCones]

Originally posted by djm221
Well, if you are flooring alot of power around a turn, you belong off the road.

What's wrong with accelerating from 45 to 60 in 2nd around a 55 mph corner?

Bryan

[djm221]

Originally posted by NoCones


What's wrong with accelerating from 45 to 60 in 2nd around a 55 mph corner?

Bryan
If you did that with the 2ZZ, you'd be fine; lift would not be a problem.
How often do you accelerate full throttle through a turn? Unless it is a long easy turn, in which case, I don't think the lift would cause much trouble. But like I said, the switchover needs to be lowered anyway, so if Toyota would just fix it to make the transition smooth, the 2ZZ would be a perfect fit in that car.

[icyjaws]

you guys need to drive MR2-T that takes some getting used to. Hit boost going around a corner and if you not carefully the ass end will lead you the rest of the way. done it a couple time allready. I always wanted to see toyota put a 2zz in the mr-s. I think that would be one really impressive car. Hell i can only imagin make my celica 2-300 lbs less and drving it in reverse :)

[scapamouche]

The Honda engines have a much more linear power curve. I think the big chnage on the S2000 at shift over is the sound. hThe power delivery just keeps building linearly. No spike like the Celica has.

As for lowering the shiftover point for the 2ZZ, if you look at the power curves, it is at about the right spot. The problem is that the hi loft cam has a totally different power shape. The Hondas seem to be pretty similar: linear buildup all the way up the rev range, while the 2ZZ has a knee in the curve because the cams are so different.

[NoCones]

Originally posted by djm221
How often do you accelerate full throttle through a turn?
why does full throttle matter...the switchover happens at ~6k whether it's floored or not.

so 45 to 60 doesn't contain the switchover...pick 2 speeds that do...is it really that insane to think you could acclerate through a corner and hit the switchover? I'm certain I did it with regularity when I had a GT-S (yeah, in a safe autox environment most of the time)... In the GT-S, you get wheelspin when that happens; in a mid-engine, rear-drive car, I could imagine that swithover burst could be quite disconcerting.

[borpph]

Originally posted by 143hawaii


You got it wrong dude. Our engine bays actually have way more room than the 7th gen Celicas. That's why actually making a proper fitting turbo manifold is no problem for us. The 2ZZ can actually fit in their easily no problems. A few people have done it but the question is whether it's worth it, I don't think so. I'd hate to ever try to keep that thing in lift while cornering. Also with it being midengine-rwd it's even more of a risk. I haven't driven an S2000 yet but I'd imagine it must a headache with VTEC constantly engaging and disengaging.

Just like Dark Star, I'm happy with their choice. Althought I wouldn't have minded a 3rd Gen 3SGTE or a SC'd 1ZZ :D

Do you know the people that have actually done it? I'm curious to what how they do in the quarter mile, 0-60, etc... And how much would that cost to put the 2ZZ in?

[djm221]

If you are not at full throttle, the lift doesn't "kick" like WOT. I guess I agree, in it's current form, the 2ZZ would not be a good fit in the MR2. The 2nd cam can come on a fwe hundred RPMs lower to eliminate that kick. It may not do anything for power, but they could eliminate that sudden surge. And as for now, Toyota is the only one that can fix that problem since no company has figured it out yet.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by M SPEC
It has less to do with engine bay size but more to do with the type of engine resonse and handling dynamics for that type of chassis. Thats why a MR-S can supossedly out handle a Celica with less power. And thats why they have become so popular in Japan to turbo and race on circuits.

I think a 2ZZ-GE would make it quicker in a straight line but less predictable pushing it in the twisties which is its main strength. Hence the reason they probably went with the 1ZZ-FE and the with the bonus of the torque which matches well to its capable chassis.

Jason
Very good points. I also think they didn't want to worry about so much power making the car too tail happy for most amateur drivers. Look at how many of them can't even shift a 6-speed. What would they do if it was RWD with a mid-engine?

[gts24]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Very good points. I also think they didn't want to worry about so much power making the car too tail happy for most amateur drivers. Look at how many of them can't even shift a 6-speed. What would they do if it was RWD with a mid-engine?

Very good point. Maybe they could just put it out in Japan and Europe. Apparently those people know how to drive and not misshift.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by gts24


Very good point. Maybe they could just put it out in Japan and Europe. Apparently those people know how to drive and not misshift.
That's because they drive on the other side of the car...

[143hawaii]

There's pictures floating all around, mostly from Japan. I have a pic even somewhere on my comp. from a guy who did a hybrid 1ZZ/2ZZ, supposedly a pretty interesting combination similar to honda's LS/VTEC hybrid. Try contacting Toysport (www.toysport.com) about doing a 2ZZ swap into a Spyder.

As far as the MkII goes, their problem was their rear suspension more than anything. Which is why Toyota has been continually revising it's layout for the past 10 years (in Japan).

Come by www.spyderchat.com, there's a lot more of us who discuss why they feel the 2ZZ isn't a good choice.