Came across this on the Elise forums

[two_ton]

Is this for real? Thought MWR had a decent rep.

http://elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22211

[Boosted2.0]

I'm not surprised. MWR does a lot for the Celica community's available parts but they are not exactly the shining pinnacle of aftermarket companies and there have been many people that have had complaints about work done at their shop and the time it takes in the past. Also lots of folks have complained about their customer service before. They are not some huge corporation they are a small performance shop and they have manpower limitations they have to work with likie most other small shops. They aren't bad though - you want to see BAD try doing business with Toysport some time.

BUT - that guy with the Elise is also overstating the severty of quite a few things. Which doesn't surprise me considering Haas has his car and Haas is probably the one telling him all this - Haas strikes me as probably the most arrogant guy out there with regards to the Celica aftermarket. I mean, his work is decent, but hes not the god hes convinced he is either.

Moral of the story - no-one is perfect, and never try to be the pioneer for something and expect everything to go perfectly - it NEVER does.

[Jesse IL]

I reserve judgement on MWR until I see my shortblock show up. It has been a nightmare to get, but if the quality is there than I can accept that.

As someone who does sales for a living, I will say that if I handled my customers they way they do, I would expect to get fired. You pretty much can't get anyone on the phone, and when you do, its a guy who is so amazingly unknowledgeable you may as well be talking to the wall. The claim to work 12-6 M-F (that's 30 hours) but I don't necessarily buy that.

The thing is, MWR is really no worse than any other shop I've dealt with, and they're definitely better than some. I've given up on aftermarket shops being run by "normal professionals" and just am happy if I get a good product in my hand eventually. People always say there's low price, quality and speed: pick two. But that's BS, You never get speed, the price is always high and you may or may not get quality. Every shop I've dealth with has been slow as hell, the price has been high, their customer service sucked, but I eventually got a quality part.

[many]

BUT - that guy with the Elise is also overstating the severty of quite a few things.

What are talking about? What else do you want as a proof? Did you watch the video?
No shop in it's right mind would do something like that!

[emotart]

All shops take for ever for most things... Atleast around here... i just hate the excuse it's race season... now everyone brings there cars in to get worked on... Then race season is over then the excuse comes all the guys give us there cars to work over the winter for race season... WHY NOT SAY... Yooo we feel it is more important to us to work on our employee's cars or the shop car rather then get your car done... We have time, now if you want to be azzhole and call us up every day and ask if your car is done and give us bitchy mood... Your price will increase alot... so you pretty much have to suck there deek the whole time and be patient... and give them a whole lot of yes sir, thank you, i understand...

blahhhh

[J5ISALIVE]

i heard my fair share of nightmares about there engine assembly....but then again i have heard their praises....so who knows....normal aftermarket company.

[Boosted2.0]

What are talking about? What else do you want as a proof? Did you watch the video?
No shop in it's right mind would do something like that!

Mostly his evaluations of the potential consequenses of some of the things that hadn't failed yet.

No question that the work was shoddy as hell though bro - I'm not stickup up for MWR at all - that was a hack job for sure. I just don't buy the guys position that his car was a hairs breathy from blowing up and burning down. I have seen much worse.

You would probably be suprised by how many "quality reputable" shops pull **** like that from time to time

Ask Mike Lu how much sh*t I had to put right on his car when he bought it to me. All done by another "quality" shop

And don't even get me started on what crap boxes the cars Draper worked on turned into.

[Boosted2.0]

normal aftermarket company.

Yup - everything takes at least twice as long and costs more than originally quoted - par for the course.

[many]

And don't even get me started on what crap boxes the cars Draper worked on turned into.
:chuckles: yea I forgot about those!!! Any one of them still running?

[matadorgts]

I still believe in MWR reputation and work. :headbang:

[blitzceli]

Ive heard most of the horror stories about MWR... This one doesnt suprise me at all.

[1fastmx5]

BUT - that guy with the Elise is also overstating the severty of quite a few things. Which doesn't surprise me considering Haas has his car and Haas is probably the one telling him all this - Haas strikes me as probably the most arrogant guy out there with regards to the Celica aftermarket. I mean, his work is decent, but hes not the god hes convinced he is either.

Moral of the story - no-one is perfect, and never try to be the pioneer for something and expect everything to go perfectly - it NEVER does.
Why I do respect and understand your perspective I must say I am actually understating not overstating the severity of the work they did. If there is something specific that you feel was an overstatement please let me know and I will try to explain further. As far as the Hass comment I can assure you there is no unfair bias or persuasion going on here. Hass actually is not the only person who has seen my car and has had the opportunity to evaluate the work MWR did. I am also not an inexperienced car enthusiast. I have installed and tuned turbo systems succefully myself. I however decided that fabricating and designing may be more then I wanted to take on with such a new and expensive car. This led me to believe Matt and what he promised he could deliver was the best solution. That however was not the case. I don't think that even at my amateur level of experience that I could do worse. No, as a matter of fact I could do much better. Look at the pictures again and you tell me if you don

[1fastmx5]

I still believe in MWR reputation and work. :headbang:

I respect your opinion. I am however curious... can you tell me from the pictures what exactly gives you such faith in their work. Do you feel that this is quality work and something that you would be happy done to your car. Just a honest opinion is all I ask. Take another look carefully.

[blitzceli]

I dont know if you have heard the horror story of hass I supose? It just shows that all companies have their ups and downs, it just goes to show you really cant trust any of them. Boosted is right, Hass isnt the god he makes himself out to be. I would keep a close eye/watch on the car from now through the build/repairs.

[1fastmx5]

I dont know if you have heard the horror story of hass I supose? It just shows that all companies have their ups and downs, it just goes to show you really cant trust any of them. Boosted is right, Hass isnt the god he makes himself out to be. I would keep a close eye/watch on the car from now through the build/repairs.

I in no way wish to make this a Hass promotion. It is not and I am not suggesting any particular alegiance. I don't really care who you prefer. I do think that my experience should be shared with all fellow enthusiast that may be interested. I wish I would of had some heads up of others troubles to this sever extent with them.

I wish only to let the others know of my expereince with MWR and let their work stand on it's own merit. My motives are nothing more then to show you what they delivered to me.

Hass Turbo did sort my car out and it runs very nicely. No other shop really wanted to touch my car once they saw what was done. I mention this as just a matter of fact and again not to be a cheerleader of any kind. So please let the work stand on it's own with no politics.

[GT211]

:chuckles: yea I forgot about those!!! Any one of them still running?

I'm running his kit, but consider it highly modified.

[Boosted2.0]

[QUOTE=1fastmx5]Why I do respect and understand your perspective I must say I am actually understating not overstating the severity of the work they did. If there is something specific that you feel was an overstatement please let me know and I will try to explain further. As far as the Hass comment I can assure you there is no unfair bias or persuasion going on here. Hass actually is not the only person who has seen my car and has had the opportunity to evaluate the work MWR did. I am also not an inexperienced car enthusiast. I have installed and tuned turbo systems succefully myself. I however decided that fabricating and designing may be more then I wanted to take on with such a new and expensive car. This led me to believe Matt and what he promised he could deliver was the best solution. That however was not the case. I don't think that even at my amateur level of experience that I could do worse. No, as a matter of fact I could do much better. Look at the pictures again and you tell me if you don

[Alpha-Zero]

wow....I have a small shop that I'm trying to get up and up. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING I build would ever leave my shop looking like that. I don't care how cheap I quoted the job, something like that would be an embarassment to my personal pride alone.

I understand the manpower issue, I'm a lone soldier trying to get a website up and running, get sales, get product out the door and try to do some R&D so I've got my hands full but they had 7 months to work on this and it looks like a one week job...

[Smaay]

I still believe in MWR reputation and work. :headbang:



Ill have to second this....it took about 5 months to get my motor from MWR but the quality is there...the stroker is running very strong. when i tore it apart there was absolutly nothing wrong with it. All i can do is give my experience with MWR...yes its hard to get ahold of Matt sometimes, but he does come through for me, and ill still recommend MWR

[1fastmx5]

The work was horrible dude, beyond amateurish - you are absolutely right. But I don't think your car was necessarily in imminent danger of falling apart as a result - I know that in your current situation you probably find it hard to believe that anyone could do worse than MWR did, but I have seen much worse in custom kits and even some production ones.

Anyways a few overreactions on your part:

1 - a missing bolt on the downpipe doesn't really require you to remove the whole system.

2 - the wastegate blockoff flange is a very common peice and not some monumentally new design flaw - they work fine.

3 - That shorted wire didn't almost start a fire - takes more than a shorted 16 gauge wire to ignite aluminum.

4 - water injection was never meant to run at idle - it was just installed wrong or mis-tuned

Also you state the injectors were too small to be safe, but they setup they gave you couldn't have been making too much power - were those injectors smaller than 440CC?


None of its big overreactions - the things they did were all crappy as I have said before - I just don't think it was looking like the car was necessarily doomed.

Anyways I haven't seen the video - I need to upgrade my flash player I guess

I am very sorry you experienced this - none of it was your fault and you did get a thorough screwing and you have every right to be a lot madder than you are - don't think I'm trying to say you are unreasonably upset or anything - I'm just saying some of that stuff doesn't look as bad as described and none of it surprises me (then again my opinion of MWR isn't as high as most around here).

Thank you Boosted 2.0 for your honest opinions. Ill try to address some of them.

1. There were actually 2 missing bolts. One of which was on the downpipe and one which was on the turbo itself. The Elise is a very difficult car to work on in terms of access. The bolts could not be reached without taking much of the system apart. Sometimes as I am sure your aware assembly has to be done in order as some bolts are not accessible later.

2. This caused my car to have boost creep from 9-13psi. This was a major concern. It no longer has this problem at all.

3. You may have overlooked the bigger picture. It was not the aluminum I was concerned about but rather the overload and heat transfer of the wire burning other wires and plastic components. Remember the wire can get melting hot not just at the contact point but rather the whole length of the wire. They did not install any fuses and left unchecked a fire would have resulted at other points along the heated wire.

4. I totally agree. It was just a mention of yet another improper installation rather then a failure mode of the engine.

Some of the things I mentioned where not critical but still done poorly. Some things were done incorrectly that I believe was dangerous and would most definitely cause a failure such as.

Boost creeping to 13psi
Injectors improperly installed
Injectors dangerously close to full static mode
Misfire at cam changeover
Insufficient capacity and placement of intercooler
Hot side piping directly in contact with cold side piping

Some of these where immediate threats while others are more of a longevity issue.

[Boosted2.0]

wow....I have a small shop that I'm trying to get up and up. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING I build would ever leave my shop looking like that. I don't care how cheap I quoted the job, something like that would be an embarassment to my personal pride alone.

I understand the manpower issue, I'm a lone soldier trying to get a website up and running, get sales, get product out the door and try to do some R&D so I've got my hands full but they had 7 months to work on this and it looks like a one week job...

I agree - whoever did that obviously takes no pride in their work.

But I still can't hate them - they HAVE done a ton of work to bring a lot of great products to market for the Celica, it just seems like their shop might not be a safe place to bring your car.

[Boosted2.0]

3. You may have overlooked the bigger picture. It was not the aluminum I was concerned about but rather the overload and heat transfer of the wire burning other wires and plastic components. Remember the wire can get melting hot not just at the contact point but rather the whole length of the wire. They did not install any fuses and left unchecked a fire would have resulted at other points along the heated wire.


WOW... I had simply assumed they would have at least bothered to fuse wire runs and that the fuse would have popped after that contact. Thats just downright dangerously incompetent. I retract my statement about you over-reacvting - you are absolutely right in stating that it could have easily smoked the other wires in the harness, and if in contact with paper or another readily igniteable substance easily have caused a fire.

My appologies - I guess I'm so used to folks over-reacting after taking a screwinglike this one that I assumed you were doing the same :)

[1fastmx5]

I don't care how cheap I quoted the job, something like that would be an embarassment to my personal pride alone.

I feel the same way. Too further enlighten to the costs they charged me $4000.00 for that work and 7 months of no car.

[Alpha-Zero]

But I still can't hate them - they HAVE done a ton of work to bring a lot of great products to market for the Celica, it just seems like their shop might not be a safe place to bring your car.

:chuckles:

[1fastmx5]

WOW... I had simply assumed they would have at least bothered to fuse wire runs and that the fuse would have popped after that contact. Thats just downright dangerously incompetent. I retract my statement about you over-reacvting - you are absolutely right in stating that it could have easily smoked the other wires in the harness, and if in contact with paper or another readily igniteable substance easily have caused a fire.

My appologies - I guess I'm so used to folks over-reacting after taking a screwinglike this one that I assumed you were doing the same :)

No apologies required at all. Fair observation and discussion is all I really want to come of this. I am more then happy to be educated on something if I am wrong. I should have mentioned the fuse and the fact that to stop the smoke the battery cable had to be quickly pulled.

I don't want to really try to change peoples minds who are already loyal and comfortable with their decision to use MWR. I just wanted to share my experience for those who may find it helpfull in which direction they may go in modding their cars.

I love modding cars and I only have allegiance to fellow enthusiast who shares my hobby. I care more about us as a group then any particular business. Unfortunately you are right in that often politics and camping can take over.

[Boosted2.0]

Oh I'm not loyal to them in the slightest - I have no faith in their abilities whatsoever - I just don't want them to loose all business and fold up because there isn't necessarily a good company waiting to step in and take their place in supporting the 1ZZ and 2ZZ like they do. The markets small and the fact that Toyota killed the Celica line isnt helping matters.

Mind you, since I'm perefectly comfortable with double standards, if that were done to me I would do everything in my power to put them out of business :D

This is why I don't let other people work on my car.

[Boosted2.0]

I feel the same way. Too further enlighten to the costs they charged me $4000.00 for that work and 7 months of no car.

$4K isn't a bad price at all assuming the work would have been done properly and intelligently (obviously it wasn't), but 7 months is retarded.

How long did they promise you initially?

[turboelise]

1fastmx is absolutely correct and is not overreacting. Have you guys seen the pictures? You would have to try really hard to screw up this bad. The welds are a joke. But c'mon, only $4,000 for the kit and installation? No wonder the work is so crappy, I paid twice that to (edit: buy and) install my forcedfed kit.

[fraugts]

Ill have to second this....it took about 5 months to get my motor from MWR but the quality is there...the stroker is running very strong.

ok, now Im worried... :ugh:

[Boosted2.0]

1fastmx is absolutely correct and is not overreacting. Have you guys seen the pictures? You would have to try really hard to screw up this bad. The welds are a joke. But c'mon, only $4,000 for the kit and installation? No wonder the work is so crappy, I paid twice that to install my forcedfed kit.

Wow you paid $8K for installation!!!! ;) (Kidding!)

But yeah - $4K is way too cheap to expect decent quality. I charge $700 for system installs on a Celica and thats not including tuning which I bill at $70 / hour in most cases. I tell folks to expect to spend at least $1600 on turbo install and tuning if its being done right by trained professionals.

[1fastmx5]

$4K isn't a bad price at all assuming the work would have been done properly and intelligently (obviously it wasn't), but 7 months is retarded.

How long did they promise you initially?

2 months was the initial estimate. They are claiming 5 months was spent on PowerFC development (never completed). What i found particulary frustrating was 3 missed deadlines due to them insisting the need to race their cars instead of keeping to promises.

[turboelise]

Too bad powerFC was never completed. Elise owners are really missing out on this great standalone =(

[1fastmx5]

But c'mon, only $4,000 for the kit and installation? No wonder the work is so crappy, I paid twice that to install my forcedfed kit.

Hi Turboelise, let me put this in a better perspective. ForcedFed did their first car for FREE. The cost really is irrelavant in this case. Does the forcedFed kit have the quality of a "free" kit?

I was not a customer coming in looking for a cheapo install. I was rather a participant who was lending them a brand new 50K car (my payment to the project). We were partners in this regard. Just like ForcedFeds first car.

I paid $4000.00 more then the person who gave ForceFed their first car. So by this logic my car should actually have been $4000.00 better then ForcedFeds first mule which was done for free.

As you can see that was simply not the case. MWR was not going to sell this kit for 4K but for much more. However, this never came to be as i think they knew that they were in over their heads.

Again this was not a $4000.00 kit but rather a compromise on price for the access to my car and the ability to create a system which to sell and make money.

$4000.00 is alot when you are already giving them a $50,000 brand new limited production car. The work was to develope products to which they were to make money with. The expectation was not that this was a cheapo $4K hack job.

[143hawaii]

Just to add to this, a story from Spyderchat:

http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=30789&highlight=

Watch the video and make your own conclusions...

[turboelise]

1fastmx5, I must have misunderstood you. I thought the $4,000 you paid was the actual price of the kit going into production. Sorry for the confusion, now it makes sense.

[1fastmx5]

1fastmx5, I must have misunderstood you. I thought the $4,000 you paid was the actual price of the kit going into production. Sorry for the confusion, now it makes sense.

Not at all... thank you for allowing me to clarify the issue.

I realize that much of what I have posted will need to be clarified as different interpretations will result. Ill try my best.

[matadorgts]

I still believe in MWR reputation and work. :headbang:

I respect your opinion. I am however curious... can you tell me from the pictures what exactly gives you such faith in their work. Do you feel that this is quality work and something that you would be happy done to your car. Just a honest opinion is all I ask. Take another look carefully.


I have to say that by looking at the pictures, the work that was done to you car is far from MWR's quality. I guess they made a mistake and now they should make it up to you and do it right, they got what it takes to provide you with quality parts and service and If I was them I will take care of your car and make a customer happy.

[venomceli]

OMG, if my car sounded like that I would have been scared to drive it... No to mention if my car wiring looked like that I would be scared to even sit inside!!! my god!

[1fastmx5]

I have to say that by looking at the pictures, the work that was done to you car is far from MWR's quality. I guess they made a mistake and now they should make it up to you and do it right, they got what it takes to provide you with quality parts and service and If I was them I will take care of your car and make a customer happy.

After having the car seven months and trying to pawn off this work on my new Lotus I in no way wanted to ever touch my car again. I was scared of the thought of that shop ever touching my car. If seven months wasnt enough then I had no confidence any amount of time would be.

I brought it to another shop to fix the car but in the end it had to be totally removed because one problem just led to another and economically it would not make any sense to continue that course.

[Jesse IL]

The arrogance and disregard I experienced with MWR was a terrible eye opening experience of how helpless you can be when you give a company your car.
I have run into this with virtually every small shop I've dealt with. Last week, Turbohoses simply didn't follow my instructions, which I had given them in writing. When I asked them to correct their mistake at their cost, all I got was an argument and attempts to smokescreen the situation using technical jargon.
Oh I'm not loyal to them in the slightest - I have no faith in their abilities whatsoever - I just don't want them to loose all business and fold up because there isn't necessarily a good company waiting to step in and take their place in supporting the 1ZZ and 2ZZ like they do. The markets small and the fact that Toyota killed the Celica line isnt helping matters.

Mind you, since I'm perefectly comfortable with double standards, if that were done to me I would do everything in my power to put them out of business :D

This is why I don't let other people work on my car.

This is why I absolutely won't let anyone touch my car unless it is something I simply am incapable of doing. Even if shops wanted to be as thorough as I am, they would go out of business because they would never be able to pass off labor bills for the number of hours involved.
I feel the same way. Too further enlighten to the costs they charged me $4000.00 for that work and 7 months of no car.

$4K isn't a bad price at all assuming the work would have been done properly and intelligently (obviously it wasn't), but 7 months is retarded.

How long did they promise you initially?

$4000 really isn't that much for a custom turbo system, regardless of what ForcedFed did. You can't expect free just because someone else got it at a different place. At $4000, MWR probably didn't make a dime, and gave away labor for free.
Ill have to second this....it took about 5 months to get my motor from MWR but the quality is there...the stroker is running very strong.

ok, now Im worried... :ugh:

I'm coming up on 6 months for my MWR shortblock. Granted, a good part of that downtime is related to the custom pistons.
I was not a customer coming in looking for a cheapo install.
Unfortunately, I've found that this is exactly how every shop treats you. I've had similar issues with a body shop. I've tried to tell the guy that look, I brought you the car because I've seen your work and like it. I never even mentioned price yet I received work as it was all I talked about.

Basically my feelings about MWR are that I applaud them for making any efforts to further this car, but that doesn't mean they are beyond reproach.

[1fastmx5]

$4000 really isn't that much for a custom turbo system, regardless of what ForcedFed did. You can't expect free just because someone else got it at a different place. At $4000, MWR probably didn't make a dime, and gave away labor for free

You are failing to realize that I was not a customer just buying a custom turbo system. I was paying for all the hardware and providing them with a 50 thousand dollar car so that they could make products to which they could sell. They had much to gain and benefit from getting my car and developing products. I was not going to be making money from any products they were to sell. This had value beyond just the 4K I gave them and is a considerable value. They were to sell this kit for alot more then 4K...

Remember I lost the use of a car for 7 months. Yet I still had to pay the car loan, the insurance, the registration, traveling expenses in addition too several driving seasons to which add up tp a year when considering the repairs needed as a result of their work.

[WAR]

Sorry to hear about your elise, MWR does crap custom work, if you want to buy a roll bar from them that someone else makes your fine. But never ever get them to do custom work or buy parts from them that they have made or had custom made to their specs from someone else.

MWR has f-up'ed a lot, and I mean a lot more then people realize, and sometimes in some major ways, I'm suprised they haven't lost all their buisness. And the bigger supprise is they keep doing this crap work, you would think they would have stepped up their work by now to a decent level after they screw up before. But I guess they just might not have the ability/knowledge/talent to do that or they just don't give a crap.

I've said all this before, and it seems I just get jumped on for bad mouthing MWR, but I've had first hand experiance, and I know what crap they do. Eventually people will find out the truth and threads like this show the truth.

Good luck I hope everything turns out well with your elise.

[Jesse IL]

$4000 really isn't that much for a custom turbo system, regardless of what ForcedFed did. You can't expect free just because someone else got it at a different place. At $4000, MWR probably didn't make a dime, and gave away labor for free

You are failing to realize that I was not a customer just buying a custom turbo system. I was paying for all the hardware and providing them with a 50 thousand dollar car so that they could make products to which they could sell. They had much to gain and benefit from getting my car and developing products. I was not going to be making money from any products they were to sell. This had value beyond just the 4K I gave them and is a considerable value. They were to sell this kit for alot more then 4K...

Remember I lost the use of a car for 7 months. Yet I still had to pay the car loan, the insurance, the registration, traveling expenses in addition too several driving seasons to which add up tp a year when considering the repairs needed as a result of their work.

Well I don't know what the particulars of the situation are, but on a typical "fully sponsored" job, you provide the car, pay for any parts, and are given all the labor for free. If you paid for the parts, your bill should have been $0 if they were using your car as a test bed.
And the bigger supprise is they keep doing this crap work, you would think they would have stepped up their work by now to a decent level after they screw up before. But I guess they just might not have the ability/knowledge/talent to do that.
I don't find it surprising at all, really. 99% of people will never maliciously try to screw their customers (exception: ATR), so if the work is bad, its because the people doing it are hacks.

[1fastmx5]

When my car check codes where downloaded after i got the car back from MWR it seemed like it would never end... Here is how the car was delivered to me from them..

P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor Malfunction
P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Low Input
P0103 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit High Input
P0118 Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit High Input
P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input
P0328 Knock Sensor 1 Circuit High Input (Bank I or Single Sensor)
P0076 ???
P0508 ???
P0141 02 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P2648 ???
P0354 Ignition Coil D Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction
P0172 System too Rich (Bank 1)
P0134 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank I Sensor 1)
P0140 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor Malfunction
P2647 ???
P1302 ???
P0128 ???

Now thats a freightening amount of OBD2 check codes to sort through. I expected maybe one or two but :AF:

[monkeywrench]

I'm not going to address the accusations individually. I'll just say that Anthony left here with the car running just fine. He encountered some problems after driving the car for a while but he lives hundreds of miles away so he was not able to bring the car here to be checked. He decided to take the car to Hass when we suggested he get it checked out locally. He expressed nervousness about some parts of the turbo system. Hass offered to build a new turbo system for him- a convenient way to prototype a kit of his own. I don't blame Jay for that, it worked out well for him and at the time. I might have done the same thing. To facilitate that we made an arrangement with Anthony to buy back the turbo system for more than he paid us for it plus install plus tuning. That's right, he got every cent back PLUS some additional compensation for inconvenience PLUS he kept some of the parts. I tried my damnedest to do the right thing.

I have a little trouble understanding why he is posting about this now. The car was completed last fall. We made the return agreement in December. Anthony indicated that he was satisfied with the arrangement.

I will also add that some of the pictures do not depict conditions that existed when the car left here. There was certainly no exposed wiring. By the tone of Anthony's communication I think you can see that there could be a tendency to want to make us look as bad as possible. I understand this, he's been through a lot.

I'll let the bulk of our work speak for itself. We have 1000's of happy customers on the Spyder and Celica boards. On the rare occasion that there is a problem with an order we do more than most companies would to make it right. I've personally driven 3 hours one way on a Saturday to deliver a part to a customer who was in desperate need. Of the countless cars we've turbocharged over the years (2 other Elises with 100% satisfied customers, by the way) all but Anthony's have been perfect or required only minor adjustments in the time after tha car was returned to the customer.

Aftermarket turbo systems aren't an easy business, which you can easily see by the number of companies that have attempted turbo kits for these cars. We've evolved the design of our turbo system over a few years now and wouldn't consider releasing it until it's perfect. With the tens of thousands of miles of testing we're doing I'm confident we'll get to that point soon.

[1fastmx5]

I'm not going to address the accusations individually. I'll just say that Anthony left here with the car running just fine. He encountered some problems after driving the car for a while but he lives hundreds of miles away so he was not able to bring the car here to be checked. He decided to take the car to Hass when we suggested he get it checked out locally. He expressed nervousness about some parts of the turbo system. Hass offered to build a new turbo system for him- a convenient way to prototype a kit of his own. I don't blame Jay for that, it worked out well for him and at the time. I might have done the same thing. To facilitate that we made an arrangement with Anthony to buy back the turbo system for more than he paid us for it plus install plus tuning. That's right, he got every cent back PLUS some additional compensation for inconvenience PLUS he kept some of the parts. I tried my damnedest to do the right thing.

I have a little trouble understanding why he is posting about this now. The car was completed last fall. We made the return agreement in December. Anthony indicated that he was satisfied with the arrangement.

I will also add that some of the pictures do not depict conditions that existed when the car left here. There was certainly no exposed wiring. By the tone of Anthony's communication I think you can see that there could be a tendency to want to make us look as bad as possible. I understand this, he's been through a lot.

I'll let the bulk of our work speak for itself. We have 1000's of happy customers on the Spyder and Celica boards. On the rare occasion that there is a problem with an order we do more than most companies would to make it right. I've personally driven 3 hours one way on a Saturday to deliver a part to a customer who was in desperate need. Of the countless cars we've turbocharged over the years (2 other Elises with 100% satisfied customers, by the way) all but Anthony's have been perfect or required only minor adjustments in the time after tha car was returned to the customer.

Aftermarket turbo systems aren't an easy business, which you can easily see by the number of companies that have attempted turbo kits for these cars. We've evolved the design of our turbo system over a few years now and wouldn't consider releasing it until it's perfect. With the tens of thousands of miles of testing we're doing I'm confident we'll get to that point soon.

Matt how do you live with yourself. How utterly shameful!

Hass and I did not want to remove your kit. We had run up thousands of dollars trying to fix this kit of yours but things just kept failing. We would get it all buttoned up and then something else would go. I had to pull it because it became apparent it would cost more to fix then to just replace. We had tried for several weeks to sort this thing out before deciding to remove it.

Folks take a look at the pics. How many man hours do you think it would have taken to fix?

To prove my point that Matt is lieing and I am not, here is a pic of the manifold that we tried to fix... Yes we tried to fix this abomination and it simply could not be done.

LOOK AT HOW BAD IT WAS EVEN AFTER RESURFACING IT!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/mchn-marks05.jpg

My engines head is now permanately scored because of this! I have to hope it never developes a leak or its going to cost lots of money to fix

The Kit was just not salvagable. I tried and because of that I spent over 2G's trouble shooting and fixing it. If I had just pulled it and started fresh it would be cheaper.

We did make a settlement but I was held hostage because he had my car and I had to take a screwing in the end to get it back.

It was in no way a 100% refund. It did not cover any of the damage he caused. Nothing of the troubleshooting and time to get it back right and fixed. He fails to understand that there is more to this then simply a return. Wat about all the damage Matt?

You caused damage to my car. You are responsible for that!

Even now you just don't get it Matt. Even now you continue to insult me and show no self dignity and sense of right.

Even now I say to you... pay for the rest of my expenses that are directly related to the damage you have caused. I dont know how to be more fair about it. Make it right and I will tell everyone of it

My car never ran right. You told me when I complained abou the misfire and the roughness of the car that it would go away when the ECU relearned. Your excuse was that you had just unpluged the battery and that this was the reason it was running so rough.

Let your work speak for itself, huh! Well i dont really care about the thousands of cars u self proclaim to have done wonders with... WHAT THE HECK HAPPEN WITH MINE? Where is the quality that you promised that would be worth such a long wait.

Do you really think I have nothing better to do then make up false scenarios and wiring issues. For what reason

Yeah you right about one thing..Ive been through alot.. Thank you for that Matt

[LotusGal]

I can't speak for Anthony, but I suspect he didn't post anything until now because he wanted resolve to these issues with MWR before he made final judgement. He has stated he doesn't take posting such things lightly. From reading Anthony's posts on Elisetalk he is a very level headed and fair guy. This is not about HASS being better or worse. The work from any shop should stand up to a basic level of quality at the very least. MWR's work on Anthony's car falls very short of this.

Read and make your own judgement. I really could care less if you still love MWR. In the end we all vote with our pocket books and let's just say MWR has lost the vote in the Lotus community.

[JayHass]

1 - a missing bolt on the downpipe doesn't really require you to remove the whole system.

2 - the wastegate blockoff flange is a very common peice and not some monumentally new design flaw - they work fine.

3 - That shorted wire didn't almost start a fire - takes more than a shorted 16 gauge wire to ignite aluminum.

4 - water injection was never meant to run at idle - it was just installed wrong or mis-tuned

Also you state the injectors were too small to be safe, but they setup they gave you couldn't have been making too much power - were those injectors smaller than 440CC?


None of its big overreactions - the things they did were all crappy as I have said before - I just don't think it was looking like the car was necessarily doomed.


First off, let me say that I am not getting in between MWR and 1FastMX5. They have their thing to sort out and that's that. I simply at the customer request documented the problems we found along the way with pictures. We were originally contacted with "the car isn't running right, can you take a look at it and figure it out" as the call. I said "sure" and figured it was a small issue that cropped up that we could have buttoned up quickly and he would be on his way...stuff happens, no harm no foul it's part of having a turbo car was my attitude.

These things were found along the way. Everytime we fixed something, another item at a deeper level would fail until we got to the head stud pulling out so it wasn't this "lets pull the car apart and pick it apart" kind of thing. That was the farthest thing on my mind and to be honest I never had the time set aside to do that much work - our schedule and hands were full, but to help him out we took the job and after getting into it we had to finish it for him.

1FastMX5's words are his own. I in no way was bashing anyone - just taking pictures for the customer as he requested and relaying information we found such as "hey the wires were bare" or "the wrong coolant is in the car, it's not DEXCOOL" or whatever. We were not like "dude, they tried to blow up your car - screw them they suck, we rock" Nothing like that. In fact, we've had our customers at Matt's place and there was never any bad blood between us.

I'm going to overlook your comments toward us as I don't think this is the place or time to banter - email or PM me if you have anything you wish to express about our company, I have no problem having a discussion with you. I think if you get to know who I am you will find you are 180* from the truth about me. I'm probably one of the most easiest going, humble guys you'll ever meet. I'm not in this industry for the "lifestyle" or the "glory". I just like messing with cars. That's it.

I want to adress your comments to Anthony as the one first hand who worked on the car. He's not making it up.

1. The missing bolt was on the turbo itself and also one on the downpipe. The location of the bolt makes it impossible to tighten on the car. On the Elise (Ever look in the rear of one of those things!) you have to bolt the turbo to the manifold and put it in as a unit...and the reverse is true if you need to tighten or replace the bolts. So basically or more specifically the way that kit was designed you have to remove the exhaust, DP, IC, IC pipes all to get the turbo and manifold off to replace a missing bolt. That is what he was talking about. All the parts are/were kind of stacked on top of each other so there was no way to just swap a bolt. Please don't think Celica or whatever. This car is TIGHT back there.

2. Boost started at about 9psi and creeped to 13psi - with a 6psi actuator! The wastegate had no breathing room in this setup and creeped like a *******. It doesn't any more with a merged wastegate downpipe in the car now. Holds rock steady at 7psi.

3. There was SMOKE POURING out of the dash. The Elise is ALL aluminum. You should have a look under the dash sometime. The insulation melted off about 6 inches of wire until I disconnected the battery. The aluminum wasn't in danger of burning but in a mess of wires and plastic under the dash it doesn't take that much to light up and burn.

4. I think there was simply a miscommunication regarding the water. I'm not sure if it was on at idle - that may have been outside of what I saw so I can't comment directly.

I don't have a lot of time to spend on the forums so I probably won't be able to reply much and really don't want to get in the middle of those guys, I just wanted to let you know the "other side" of those items 1FastMX5 mentioned and why "was" was.

Edit: I do apologize, I just realized you guys were already discussing this. I'm on hour 12 after a hard day - that's my excuse. Bleh...

[JayHass]

Hass offered to build a new turbo system for him- a convenient way to prototype a kit of his own. I don't blame Jay for that, it worked out well for him and at the time. I might have done the same thing.

Matt, that's not true. Stop it. We already had a car here with our Lotus kit being developed and documented on Elisetalk...we didn't need another. I never offered to build a kit on his car. He asked me to just take yours off and put ours on after several problems surfaced. That's the truth. I don't need to take away from someone else to get for ourselves. Like I said, we already had a car here for development and it was running and completed by the time he brought his car in for service.

I never ever intended for things to go that far on his car. I figured it was just something that messed up along the way - you know, life with a custom turbo car. I figured a few hours, maybe a tune tweak and he would be on his way. I never intended or wanted to take on that much work just before our busiest time of year. Never.

Please don't come out swinging at me...there is no need. I never bashed you, and never said a word about this. Not a single word. I took this job on in the best interest of YOUR customer to help him out.

I'm going to bow out of this now, but please don't make assumptions like that. It's just not true and we have no reason to and simply do no operate that way.

[turboelise]

That is true, the first elise that Jay got was Sky-King's and that one was used to prototype his kit, not 1fastmx's. See this thread:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990&highlight=hass

[booyaolian]

nobody should do something like that to a $50,000 brand new car.

it is a freaking Elise.

MWR :bang:

[Boosted2.0]

I'm probably one of the most humble guys you'll ever meet.

ROFL - bro you just bragged on how humble you are!

Nah uh - I'm humbler than you are thhbbbttt!! :D

I have nothing against you Jay - its just my opinion of you from the posts you have made on this board, and its been reinforced by the people that I have talked to that have had dealings with you. I'm not saying you aren't a good person - you can be a cool guy (which most say that you are) and still arrogant. Basic consensus is that you do good work but you are too well aware of that fact. And if thats your biggest problem in life you're doing pretty damn good. Of course then again anyone who says hes humbler than everyone else.... :D

For what its worth I have the same problem a lot of the time and I have to work VERY hard at curbing those tendancies. It doesn't even work most of the time but hell - as long as you ARE good its OK to know it :)

[monkeywrench]

Matt, that's not true. Stop it. We already had a car here with our Lotus kit being developed and documented on Elisetalk...we didn't need another.

My mistake. I was told that at the time and believed it was true but I didn't hear it straight from you Jay. I stand corrected and apologize for not checking facts. I did not mean to imply that you had anything but the intention to take care of your customer.

Regarding taking responsibility, we helped all that we could at the time logistically. When the customer told us that he'd rather have a different kit installed we agreed to refund every penny paid to us for the turbo system and all labor/tuning and then some and did just that. We make every reasonable effort to make sure every customer is happy.

If any of you have a problem with any service or parts that you received from us please contact us directly. I know most of our Elise customers personally and don't recall you Stan but if you or anyone for that matter has an issue with any parts or service from us please contact me. Sometimes it's just a matter of communication.

[WAR]

Maybe there needs to be a class action lawsuit against MWR for all the damage and problems they have caused many people over time.


If you guys go ahead with a class action lawsuit let me know I'd like to get in on that.

[1fastmx5]

we agreed to refund every penny paid to us for the turbo system and all labor/tuning and then some and did just that

What about the damage you caused and the expenses incurred to fix it? Why do you continue not to address this issue at all?

I emailed you about giving you the oppurtunity to make it right. I still haven't heard back from you.

[1fastmx5]

When the customer told us that he'd rather have a different kit installed we agreed

I never said that at all. I said that I was going to have it FIXED locally because you where 600 miles away and it was expensive to tow that far. I asked you who was going to pay to have it towed. Your response was "I'll look at the car but I'm not going to pay for any towing". How convenient for you. Once again I was going to be left with a big bill because of your mistakes

[emotart]

Well to me MWR is more like a good place to buy all your parts at once...They pretty much have all the preformance crap you can think of...They are also always looking for other things they can get for the celica's.....

But when it comes to accutually engine work... I would rather do it myself or get it done locally...From all of the stories i heard of... they take for ever to get the engine back... you have to pay for shipping of a huge engine there and back... it comes out cheaper to do it yourself or pay a local shop.. A) it gets done faster B) you can see the progress C) You have the block near by and you can look at there work...

This is why shops make you sign a contract... Pretty much says no matter how much they fuk your stuff up... It's not there fault....

[Jesse IL]

You guys honestly sound like a bunch of childish idiots.

You got a bad deal, boo fuckiing hoo. If you want to never deal with stuff like this, I'd highly suggest getting out of modifying cars. If you think MWR screwed you, don't give them any more business. But if you think filing lawsuits every time you feel wronged is the solution, you seriously picked the wrong damn hobby.

Crap like this is what drives the price of everything up. Pretty soon shops like MWR have to jack their prices way up because they need to keep a lawyer on retainer. Every order and job starts to be accompanied by three pages of fine print absolving them of all responsibility for anything that might go wrong.

You got a bad deal. You've come on a message forum and trashed a shop's reputation. On a 100% word of mouth business, don't you think that affects them? So now not only do you want to damage a shop's reputation and drive business away from them, you want your money back, too.

You're a selfish asshole if that's what you think you deserve. Grow the fuck up. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. In the real world, when people make settlements for money, the condition is always that the offending situation is covered up so as not to damage any reputations. You go after MWR for damages and they could just as easily go after you for slander.

[booyaolian]

1fastmx5, is your Elise running right now?

i would be so mad if someone did that to my car, especially if my car was a BRAND NEW Elise.

[booyaolian]

You guys honestly sound like a bunch of childish idiots.

You got a bad deal, boo fuckiing hoo. If you want to never deal with stuff like this, I'd highly suggest getting out of modifying cars. If you think MWR screwed you, don't give them any more business. But if you think filing lawsuits every time you feel wronged is the solution, you seriously picked the wrong damn hobby.

Crap like this is what drives the price of everything up. Pretty soon shops like MWR have to jack their prices way up because they need to keep a lawyer on retainer. Every order and job starts to be accompanied by three pages of fine print absolving them of all responsibility for anything that might go wrong.

You got a bad deal. You've some on a message forum and trashed a shop's reputation. On a 100% word of mouth business, don't you think that affects them? So now not only do you want to damage a shop's reputation and drive business away from them, you want your money back, too.

You're a selfish asshole if that's what you think you deserve. Grow the fuck up. You can't habe your cake and eat it, too. In the real world, when people make settlements for money, the condition is always that the ofending situation is covered up so as not to damage any reputations. You go after MWR for damages and they could just as easily go after you for slander.

are you on crack? you own a celica gt-s, not an elise.

if this happened to your brand new $50,000 car, you wouldnt say the same sh!t.

[Jesse IL]

are you on crack? you own a celica gt-s, not an elise.

if this happened to your brand new $50,000 car, you wouldnt say the same sh!t.

No I'm not on crack. You think I haven't bought some bad parts, paid for ****ty work and in general gotten screwed over for bad work in my years of modifying bikes and cars? You're dreaming, bud. I may not have wasted $4000 at a crack, but if you take the almost 6 years I've owned the car and added all the bad deals up, it would easily come to $4000.

If I were in this guy's shoes, I'd try to work out the situation with MWR on the side. Of course I'd try to get the situation solved to my satisfaction, but I would exhaust every possible avenue before I went out and slandered the company.

The final straw should always be "Either resolve this situation to my satisfaction or I'll trash your reputation amongst your customer base." If the shop still won't work with you, go right ahead. But you then can't use the hearsay and stupid internet hype to rally a bunch of back slappers to your side and then think you deserve your money back, too.

The bottom line is that this guy is pissed, but that doesn't mean he's telling the absolute truth. Anger clouds the situation every time. I'm sure the real truth is somehwere between the two stories anyways.

[Jesse IL]

My view is that to slander someone here, you need to be lying. You can see above that Matt lied. He even admits it. So maybe Matt should be sued for damages AND libel/slander/defamation?
Well I'm no lawyer so I may not be using correct terminology, but "lies" is always extremely subjective and is pretty much hearsay. I highly doubt it could be proven that either is telling the truth about the situation with the car, however it could easily be proven that the owner went to the internet to knowingly damage the reputation of MWR, thereby affecting their business.

[mukalicious]

shipping the engine is only $150. my only problem with mwr was the time it took to get, but i trusted their work so wasnt really worried about the build time. i have just about finished with the install and will post my experience after i get it up and running. im hoping i dont have any of the experiences that ive read in this post. but im thinking maybe its a 2zz curse? hoping?

[1fastmx5]

If I were in this guy's shoes, I'd try to work out the situation with MWR on the side. Of course I'd try to get the situation solved to my satisfaction, but I would exhaust every possible avenue before I went out and slandered the company.

The final straw should always be "Either resolve this situation to my satisfaction or I'll trash your reputation amongst your customer base." If the shop still won't work with you, go right ahead. But you then can't use the hearsay and stupid internet hype to rally a bunch of back slappers to your side and then think you deserve your money back, too.

The bottom line is that this guy is pissed, but that doesn't mean he's telling the absolute truth. Anger clouds the situation every time. I'm sure the real truth is somehwere between the two stories anyways.

I was a little reluctant to respond to your post because of your aggressive tone towards something you know nothing of. However your a Ranger fan so that gets a reprieve :)

How is it you are so sure I havent exhausted all my options with MWR? How is it you believe that the pictures are lies?

Even this afternoon I spoke with Matt and sent him an email stating I would be willing to make a mutual post about us coming to a fair settlement to cover my cost due to damage from his work. Im still willing to work towards the goal of proper compensation and proper recognition of good customer support.

You are angry and calling me some seriously nasty names. One has to wonder why? I dont even know you or have harmed you in any way. I am just sharing my experience with other people who may wish to learn from my mistakes.

I am probably quite older then you and have been involved in the tuner world for quite some time. I see no reason why you think what happen to me is "par for the course" and or acceptable. It doesnt have to be this way and for the most part it has not been.

I have for a very long time given MWR them the benefit of the doubt. I have bent over enough for them. At some point you have to be a man and say no more. Im sure you personally now that point as well. Well Ive been there for quite some time but even after all this I was willing to work with them and i havent heard anything back

[nyoneway]

alrite I'm moving this. :moved:

[1fastmx5]

1fastmx5, is your Elise running right now?

i would be so mad if someone did that to my car, especially if my car was a BRAND NEW Elise.

Yes the car is up and running. Abeit almost a year later from when I dropped it off at MWR but nontheless it is.

I appreciate your honest sentiment. This one did really hurt especially after waiting 2 years to get my car but Im sure Ill make up for it this summer driving it everywhere :-)

[blitzceli]

I am was a little reluctant to respond to your post because of your aggressive tone towards something you know nothing of. However your a Ranger fan so that gets a reprieve :)

How is it you are so sure I havent exhausted all my options with MWR? How is it you believe that the pictures are lies?

Even this afternoon I spoke with Matt and sent him an email stating I would be willing to make a mutual post about us coming to a fair settlement to cover my cost due to damage from his work. I till this willing to work towards the goal of proper compensation and proper recognition of good customer support.

You are angry and calling me some seriously nasty names. One has to wonder why. I dont even know you or have harmed you in any way. I am just sharing my experience with other people who wish to learn from my mistakes.

I am probably quite older then you and have been involved in the tuner world lfor quite some time. I see no reason why you think what happen to me is par for the course and or acceptable. It doesnt have to be this way and for the most part it has not been.

I have for a very long time given them them the benefit of the doubt. I have bent over enough for them. At some point you have to be a man and say no more. Im sure you personally now that point as well. Well Ive been there for quite some time but even after all this I was willing to work with them and i havent heard anything back I think what jesse is trying to say is ,You needed to talk to Matt and straighten this situation out even before you posted the thread. Who knows you may have gotten the better end of the stick and then maybe you wouldnt be so bitter towards them. But after you "slandered" mwr and no doubt has affected their business, Matt may not give you what you want. So how you indirectly affected the business may equally weigh in your damages.

[1fastmx5]

I think what jesse is trying to say is ,You needed to talk to Matt and straighten this situation out even before you posted the thread. Who knows you may have gotten the better end of the stick and then maybe you wouldnt be so bitter towards them. But after you "slandered" mwr and no doubt has affected their business, Matt may not give you what you want. So how you indirectly affected the business may equally weigh in your damages.

Guys please realize this was not a knee jerk reaction. Actually there is a reason you have never heard of any of this. It's because I have been so mindfull and careful with regards to MWR and what has happen. You are only now finding out about this because after almost a year nothing was going to change. I havent even hinted about this when all this crap was going on.

It's "liable" and not "slander". Slander is verbal. Liable is written. Secondly telling the truth about my experience (however bad it may look) is not liable if it is represents the truth. The fact that it is not shedding a good light on MWR does not make it liable nor untruthful.

PS: Oh trust me, I don't really expect to get anything out of this other then sharing my unfortunate experience. If you thought this was about getting money to fully cover my damages you are mistaken. I only offered the chance to Matt to settle today because he directly asked me how much money I was out. I was giving him the oppurtnity to turn this around as a gentleman not out of Coercion even though he chose to pass long ago.

[Boosted2.0]

are you on crack? you own a celica gt-s, not an elise.

if this happened to your brand new $50,000 car, you wouldnt say the same sh!t.


No offense bro - but someone who drives a Celica probably committed a MUCH larger percentage of their income to buying the car than someone that bought an Elise did - quality is every bit as important to us as to them. And that motor in the Elise is worth no more than the one in the Celica.

My point is simply that the dude spending more money on his car really doesn't have any bearing here.

[Boosted2.0]

To the Elise guys:

To clarify a point - this *IS* par for the course in the Celica aftermarket (hell in the Japanese import aftermarket). It should NOT be this way, but it is - thats all Jesse was saying.

MWR was proven capable of ****ty work long before that Lotus rolled through their doors - it was a chance you took, and it sucks that it didn't pan out. But as I mentioned earlier MWR is a f*ckign saint compared to some of the first companies we had providing aftermarket parts and services for the Celica. Hell, even reputable companies like AEM has serious issues with their initial product offerings.

For what its worth there are some bad stories about Jay Haas too, although most of us agree his stuff is generally quite effective and hes a good tuner, there have been people who claimed their cars got damages and there have been examples of their fabrication that left much to be desired in terms of weld quality and whatnot.

Not every shop is always going to do things right- most of them are constantly turning over young kids with lots of enthusiasm but very little actual skill or work ethic. The results are obvious. The prices Celica owners are willing to pay for parts and the volume they are sold in generally do not represent a large enough income for places to afford to hire higher quality help - the average Celica owner on here is in the very early to mid 20s and is lucky to have $1000 for mods at any given time.

Their are some rare exceptions - companies that give great service and threat customers seriously and stand behind their products 100%, but they are few and far between.

[1fastmx5]

No offense bro - but someone who drives a Celica probably committed a MUCH larger percentage of their income to buying the car than someone that bought an Elise did - quality is every bit as important to us as to them. And that motor in the Elise is worth no more than the one in the Celica.

My point is simply that the dude spending more money on his car really doesn't have any bearing here.

I agree with you. Regardless of the car you fixing or the amount you paid for it there is an equal and fair expectation for getting what you paid for. I don't feel entitiled to anything more then anyone elses hard earned money.

My point of bringing up earlier that this was a $50,000 car i gave to them was more to stress the point that I had a sustantial amount of money invested as for my part the development of the kit. That has great value and is part of the reasom I was being only charged 4K for the install and not because it was going to be a cheap kit.

I also wanted to mention (because i think its relevant) is the fact the MWR aggressively persued getting an Elise. He made alot of promises and worked hard to get a car. If his inclination was to cater to the lower quality and income demographic he should have never attempted to aquire an Elise.

[nyoneway]

Their are some rare exceptions - companies that give great service and threat customers seriously and stand behind their products 100%, but they are few and far between.

:bowdown: C2 Power. Too bad they don't sell more products.

[mukalicious]

:bowdown: C2 Power. Too bad they don't sell more products.

:werd:

[Boosted2.0]

:werd:

Amen - Gas ia a hell of a great guy - he makes some mistakes but they tend to be small and he ALWAYS makes them right.

ARP is also like that - they are an awsome company and they have great customer service.

[Boosted2.0]

Matt (Monkey Wrench Racing) you claim to have turboed two Loti after Anthony's disaster....and that you achieved 100% satisfaction.

Let's hear more about these illusions...err...Elises shall we?

Waiting...

This is where they mention that not everyone uses the internet.

Its like that loser in high school that always claimed to have a GF from another town but no-one ever met her or saw her but because you couldn't PROVE that she was fake he kept on claiming it. :D

[nyoneway]

Matt (Monkey Wrench Racing) you claim to have turboed two Loti after Anthony's disaster....and that you achieved 100% satisfaction.

Let's hear more about these illusions...err...Elises shall we?

Waiting...

Stan, let's stop the MWR bashing here. You're a moderator yourself, please keep things civil.

[1fastmx5]

Hey guys I understand how this could appear to some of you as rash decision to bash a company that many of you respect and like very much. It really was not. At the bottom of this post is a link to my original posts when I first got involved with Monkey Wrench Racing and dropped my car off with them.

I know it's a long read but if you follow along you will find a person who was excited and very promoting of MWR. I promoted them at every chance I got. I wanted to not only give them my business but I wanted them to succeed greatly in selling Elise products.

Over time in this thread you will see that I even went as far as to protect them against nay-sayers and growing suspicions as time went on. I went to bat for them and even though I was getting frustrated by the delays, the missed deadlines, the recreational racing they chose to do over getting my car done I still protected them.

I for the most part hung in there all the way till the end and gave them the benefit of the doubt. You will see that I even started to get flak from others because people felt I was being to soft and being taken advantage of. I was very consistant in being positive in MWR favor

I only mention this cause I wanted you all to know where my heart is at and to get some background to this whole ordeal.

I felt totally betrayed for my loyalty. I was their biggest fan in the Elise community.

I could deal with the long delays but to hand me a car like this was just too much.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10347&highlight=MWR+turbo

[Kenbx84]

:popcorn:

[booyaolian]

No offense bro - but someone who drives a Celica probably committed a MUCH larger percentage of their income to buying the car than someone that bought an Elise did - quality is every bit as important to us as to them. And that motor in the Elise is worth no more than the one in the Celica.

My point is simply that the dude spending more money on his car really doesn't have any bearing here.

we didnt have to wait 2 years to get a celica, did we?

this guy waited 2 years to get his Elise and $50,000 were taken out of his bank account. he then waited another 7 months to get back the same Elise but in a much worse shape.

MWR :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Boosted2.0]

we didnt have to wait 2 years to get a celica, did we?

this guy waited 2 years to get his Elise and $50,000 were taken out of his bank account. he then waited another 7 months to get back the same Elise but in a much worse shape.

MWR :bang: :bang: :bang:

/shrug - I looked for just under 2 years to find my alltrac, and at the time I bought it I spent 100% of my available cash. I then had to wait about a year and a half tillI had the funds to move forward, and then about 8 months for f*cking Toysport to get me all the parts I ordered. And the clutch I bought at their reccomendation that was gauranteed to hold failed the very first time I launched at a drag strip with decent tires.

So maybe *YOU* haven't experienced anything like that but I sure as hell have.


and its still irrelevant - I don't care if you drive a friggin Geo Metro - you are entitled to good service when you pay for it end of story.

[MISTER 2]

No offense bro - but someone who drives a Celica probably committed a MUCH larger percentage of their income to buying the car than someone that bought an Elise did - quality is every bit as important to us as to them. And that motor in the Elise is worth no more than the one in the Celica.

My point is simply that the dude spending more money on his car really doesn't have any bearing here.

we didnt have to wait 2 years to get a celica, did we?

this guy waited 2 years to get his Elise and $50,000 were taken out of his bank account. he then waited another 7 months to get back the same Elise but in a much worse shape.

MWR :bang: :bang: :bang:

Ohh cry me a river...if you think 7 months is a long time to wait for a 100% custom project you need to stop modifying cars.

My current engine building project has been going on since Spring of 2004...and the engine might be in the car today...MAYBE. ...pending the next random delay. (NOT in any way affiliated with MWR...just posting for comparison purposes.)

Custom projects are subject to any number of random delays...that is the nature of project cars.

Idiots like you are what will drive quality businesses like MWR out of bothering with producing products for the Celica...then it will be the same bunch of idiots that will start threads bitching about how there is no aftermarket support for the Celica.

Shut-up and understand the hobby you got yourself into. If you want a car that is never down; and can be fixed easily with limited delays...KEEP IT 100% OEM...and take it to the DEALER for EVERY issue.

Otherwise take some responsibility for getting into a hobby that is very nitch, and subject to numerous delays and cost overruns.

MWR is a great company, and it is BS for you to bitch and moan about something simply because you did not understand what you were getting yourself into.

[many]

OMG , now they are Gods once again.
I really hope Jesse engine will come out good !

[JayHass]

My mistake. I was told that at the time and believed it was true but I didn't hear it straight from you Jay. I stand corrected and apologize for not checking facts. I did not mean to imply that you had anything but the intention to take care of your customer.



Fair enough, thank you. And on that note...I do not feel it's right for me to be in this thread so I will gracefully bow out. Thanks for clarifying.

Boosted 2.0: I hear what you are saying and I think what I was trying to say came out the wrong way. LOL

I really only meant that I don't feel I'm above anyone and am always willing to listen and learn where and when I can. Granted I am confident in what I can do, but never think I know it all. That's what I was getting at. :)

[1fastmx5]

Ohh cry me a river...if you think 7 months is a long time to wait for a 100% custom project you need to stop modifying cars.

You sure missed the boat with this post. The issue here really isn't so much the time. Let's just forget about the time issue. Just look at the work they did. Modding cars and paying thousands for it does not mean you are to expect work so bad that your car can only run for a few hours. So bad that it is beyond resonable repair. You are diluting the real issue here. Just because you are modding your car does not mean the expectation is they can do no wrong ever

Just look at this work and tell me if you honestly feel this is a mark of a good company. Let the work speak for itself. I am certain no one here would be happy with this level of work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/mchn-marks02.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/cam-splice.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/Downpipeneckdownandhack.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/harness-splices.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/th_yellow-lotus-before.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v426/1fastmx5/Monkey%20Wrench%20Racing/?action=view&current=yellow-lotus-before.flv)

[Stan]

Hey Anthony...Matt of Monkey Wrench Racing claimed your new Lotus Elise had "worn cam(s)" which were causing significant problems. Were they bad or not?

[GT211]

we didnt have to wait 2 years to get a celica, did we?

this guy waited 2 years to get his Elise and $50,000 were taken out of his bank account. he then waited another 7 months to get back the same Elise but in a much worse shape.

MWR :bang: :bang: :bang:

Will you stop posting please? Christ, you create no reasonable responses. Not many people know here but since I've been turbo

[1fastmx5]

Hey Anthony...Matt of Monkey Wrench Racing claimed your new Lotus Elise had "worn cam(s)" which were causing significant problems. Were they bad or not?

Stan, the misfire at the cam changeover point to which MWR blamed as worn cams is no longer. He immediately blamed this as the cause when he could not get it to go away.

The car does not exhibit that misfire any longer. Now at times the changeover point it is difficult to even notice. This is impressive as it shows a really good tune through that area.

I always wondered why the heck would they be opening any part of my engine and looking at the cams to do a bolt on turbo install. The thought that they may have been Monkeying around my engine is really scary

[Boosted2.0]

Oh - there ARE 2 gods of forced induction companies BTW - they are Garret and Fullrace :D

[klutch]

[QUOTE=GT211]Will you stop posting please? Christ, you create no reasonable responses. Not many people know here but since I've been turbo

[T88 Elise]

Look, I don't know Jay Hass and I don't know Monkey Wrench so I'm a clean slate affiliation wise.

I DID read the story and I DID see the pictures and I DID see that video. Anyone who says " Oh I still think MonkeyWrench is ok" is one of those people PT Barnum was talking about when he said there's a sucker born every minute.

I've seen lots of mangled turbo installs and this one ranks up there with the top backyard moron weekend mechanic 16 year old kid hack jobs.

Oh and NO not every shop would send something like this out. This isnt a " well everyone deserves a mistake" kind of thing. I would say don't walk away from MWR, RUN as fast as you can.

[turboelise]

Ohh cry me a river...if you think 7 months is a long time to wait for a 100% custom project you need to stop modifying cars.


So you're saying a custom turbo setup with virtually no internal or head work should take 7 month and that it

[Carbonized_GT]

Ohh cry me a river...if you think 7 months is a long time to wait for a 100% custom project you need to stop modifying cars.

My current engine building project has been going on since Spring of 2004...and the engine might be in the car today...MAYBE. ...pending the next random delay. (NOT in any way affiliated with MWR...just posting for comparison purposes.)

Custom projects are subject to any number of random delays...that is the nature of project cars.

Idiots like you are what will drive quality businesses like MWR out of bothering with producing products for the Celica...then it will be the same bunch of idiots that will start threads bitching about how there is no aftermarket support for the Celica.

Shut-up and understand the hobby you got yourself into. If you want a car that is never down; and can be fixed easily with limited delays...KEEP IT 100% OEM...and take it to the DEALER for EVERY issue.

Otherwise take some responsibility for getting into a hobby that is very nitch, and subject to numerous delays and cost overruns.

MWR is a great company, and it is BS for you to bitch and moan about something simply because you did not understand what you were getting yourself into.

:bowdown:

[booyaolian]

Ohh cry me a river...if you think 7 months is a long time to wait for a 100% custom project you need to stop modifying cars.

My current engine building project has been going on since Spring of 2004...and the engine might be in the car today...MAYBE. ...pending the next random delay. (NOT in any way affiliated with MWR...just posting for comparison purposes.)

Custom projects are subject to any number of random delays...that is the nature of project cars.

Idiots like you are what will drive quality businesses like MWR out of bothering with producing products for the Celica...then it will be the same bunch of idiots that will start threads bitching about how there is no aftermarket support for the Celica.

Shut-up and understand the hobby you got yourself into. If you want a car that is never down; and can be fixed easily with limited delays...KEEP IT 100% OEM...and take it to the DEALER for EVERY issue.

Otherwise take some responsibility for getting into a hobby that is very nitch, and subject to numerous delays and cost overruns.

MWR is a great company, and it is BS for you to bitch and moan about something simply because you did not understand what you were getting yourself into.

chill out bro. dont get mad at me because you drive a homo yellow MR2.

you shut up and take a second look at all those pictures. you call that quality? i dont care how many quality parts they made in the past. they shouldnt come out something ****ty like that. this one falls far away from "failure." it is more like garbage.

[booyaolian]

[QUOTE=GT211]
Prob. the reason you haven

[1fastmx5]

I fully expected some small issues to crop up. I know what you are getting into when you mod a car. However, this is a whole other thing. There is no question that this work is unacceptable. No one here can debate this. Which bings me to the issue that really speaks to integrity of the shop ...

If it is so apparent to all of us, it was also apparent to Monkey Wrench. They knew how bad their work was turning out. They however continued anyway, and tried to cover up and or hide all the mistakes. They have been in this game a long time and it is not possible that they didnt realize what they where doing by delivering this kind of work to a customer. It was wrong and they chose to do it anyway.

I told them several times... If at anypoint you feel that this project becomes to difficult please tell me and we can make other arrangments. I expressed it was nothing to admit a problem to me and that I would not be upset or would I share that info. They had plenty of oppurtunities to work this out privately during and after this wreck. However in the end they chose to screw me and tried to hide things. It was a very selfish and unprofessional thing to do. There's really no excuse at all.

[Boosted2.0]

I fully expected some small issues to crop up. I know what you are getting into when you mod a car. However, this is a whole other thing. There is no question that this work is unacceptable. No one here can debate this. Which bings me to the issue that really speaks to integrity of the shop ...

If it is so apparent to all of us, it was also apparent to Monkey Wrench. They knew how bad their work was turning out. They however continued anyway, and tried to cover up and or hide all the mistakes. They have been in this game a long time and it is not possible that they didnt realize what they where doing by delivering this kind of work to a customer. It was wrong and they chose to do it anyway.

I told them several times... If at anypoint you feel that this project becomes to difficult please tell me and we can make other arrangments. I expressed it was nothing to admit a problem to me and that I would not be upset or would I share that info. They had plenty of oppurtunities to work this out privately during and after this wreck. However in the end they chose to screw me and tried to hide things. It was a very selfish and unprofessional thing to do. There's really no excuse at all.

Let me ask you a question - was this a simple customer vendor relationship, or had you approached MWR with the intent of selling these kits as a joint venture?

[1fastmx5]

Let me ask you a question - was this a simple customer vendor relationship, or had you approached MWR with the intent of selling these kits as a joint venture?

This was not a joint venture for me to sell anything. They actively pursued me to allow them to make a turbo for this car so they could sell it. In return, I was to get in their words a "top shelf, best of everything turbo system". I have many emails from them aggressively looking to get my car and promising a very nice turbo setup.

I was offering them a expensive limited production car and I WAS TO PAY for all the parts. In return they where to do the install for allowing them the use of my car so THEY could make money of the kits they would sell.

Many times I was assured that this kit was to be a finished product in-line and appropiate for a car of this value. I held my end of the bargain they did not. They delivered to me after 7 months total and uttern crap to which fell apart within hours of recieving it and leaving me with a very large bill to repair the damage they caused to my car.

Bottom line is the work they did would not be acceptable in any scenario. Just look at it... no one even if totally free would want it in their car. It dosen't pass the most basic test.

[LilRocketSpyder]

I was not a customer coming in looking for a cheapo install. I was rather a participant who was providing them with a brand new 50K car (my payment to the project). We were partners in this regard. Just like ForcedFeds first car.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22211&page=4

[1fastmx5]

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22211&page=4

We were partners in the regards that i was to give my car and 4K and I wasn't just paying for a cheapo kit. Note my comments "in this regard". Meaning the deal involved more then just 4K as payment.

NOT PARTNERS in business as was asked by boosted2.0. I was to make Zero Money. MWR would SOLEY benefit from any finacial windfalls not me.

Please read carefully.

Your reference was taken out of context.... It was to respond to the notion that I shouldnt have expected much from the turbo because I was purchasing a cheapo 4K turbo system. I was not purchasing a cheapo system as a customer. I was a part of a agreement for a high quality syatem to which my payment was a 50K car and 4K as my payment.

I am not really sure what point is trying to be infered. There isn't anything here that would make this work acceptable, this work to which i paid thousands for and gave a car too is unaaceptable at any price. Even if free no one would want it.

All promises by MWR where broken. The promise was
that in giving them a 50K car and 4K to develope products for them to sell I would have a well designed finished turbo system

What I got was a turbo system that fell apart in 6 hours and at least $2500.00 in damages to my car and maybe more as time passes.

I quote "You can't compare this turbo kit to the other low-buck systems out there. It'll retail for $5k+ when it's done, not including the install and tuning. $4.5k is a pretty good deal and pretty much just covers our materials cost in building the system. The high end ball bearing turbo, liquid/air intercooler, and materials used add cost but produce a superior system."

"Your car is ready and you will be leaving in style"

There really isn't anything cloudy here. No excuse for what they did. None.