Jotan82 sucks!!!!

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

HE IS TERRIBLE!!!! I can't stress that enough. I sent a money order for $250 for his stock spectra blue bumber in August of 2001 and still have not got it. He claims it was lost in the mail. Hmmmm fishy if you ask me. $250 down the fawkin drain. I have his addy when I take a trip to Florida I got some words for him.

[Personafied]

Man, I thought Jotan was cool too. I guess he might be pretty shady after all. Porkchop why the heck did you pay $250 for a stock front bumer anyways? Thats pretty expensive. I have a carbon blue one that I will to you for a lot cheaper.

[jdm-style]

yeah...why did u pay 250 for a stock bumper....and jotan....im dissapointed in you

[Pribilof]

why in God's name didn't you use delivery confirmation for a money order? Especially one for $250. That's just dumb.

[TaeMachine]

what's delivery confirmation?

[yota_racer]

Originally posted by jdm-style
yeah...why did u pay 250 for a stock bumper....and jotan....im dissapointed in you

Disappointed in Jotan?? You don't even know the whole story. Don't judge someone unless you have all the facts. Let's hear his side of the story, and then you can say what you want.

[coOOlcelica]

yep i agree with yota lets no judge things without knowing all the facts of the story........

[Manny_TXtreme]

Isnt that ironic..

[CelicaNamja79]

Jotan must have reasons you know. I don't think Jotan would try to scam money, he ain't like Monkeyboy:naughty:

[Pribilof]

Delivery confirmation is an option when you send mail at the US Post Office. Someone has to sign for the package / letter / whatever. You get sent a copy of the receipt.

[jotan82]

oh God... here it goes...

first off... being the non-recipient... of course you'd be fishy... sh* i'd be fishy too... but tell him what happened???...

i sent the package UPS...about 5 min drive from my house... i knew a guy that worked there... he said normally they dont' send those big packages from a private customer (only from commercial company's), but he made an extra acception for alil more cash... so I said coo... he bubble wrapped the hell out of the bumper put it back in the box and i filled out the forms and paid and i thought this would be the end of it... didn't think nothing of it... took it for granted... so...

time goes by... maybe say... a couple weeks... porkchoppy emails me... yo where's my bumper!!! i said.. it's sent... it'll be there.... he said ... "ok"... so... he waits... then... another 2 weeks or so he replies, "where's my bumper?!?" and since it was well above the expected shipping time... i went over to UPS... spoke to the manager who I sent the bumper... and he said the status was "still in transit" and I told him that my client needed that a while ago... and he explained that I should of sent it priority whatever... so I was like... ok i'll ask him to wait some more... little did i know, i was gonna be in his office like 7 times that month, I kept hounding him for the package, asking him whats the status and when can he expect it... by the 3rd or 4th return... i was hanging over his desk saying "where the hell is the package?!?!" it was driving me nuts... so while i'm stopping by after work choppy is emailing me daily, WHERE'S MY BUMPER, WHERE'S MY BUMPER... and i'm like awww sh*t... so this process repeats for, about... 2-3 months? finally, he told me the package never reached the destination and it could not be traced... and I asked him if I can get my money back for the amount of the bumper, but I never put any insurance on my package so I couldn't claim it for any money... never too a pic of it when I first sent it, so I couldn't have them search for it at their delivery centers... all this is shizzy.... so what could I do? I must say, I was in and out of that guys office more that 15 times, I raised hell, i screamed at the guy, spoke to his manager, i could get nothing back besides the amount I paid for the shipping, that's all they could do...

so... I told porkchoppy what happened... I offered him a body kit from my sponser s3tuning for cheaper than wholesale rate... to compensate his loss...

ever since... i sold NOTHING from nc.org... i sold my stock fogs... stock air box, stock exhaust, my friends stock fogs and after this ordeal... i haven't sold nothing... i just don't wanna go through that crap again... it's totally insane... I know not every package will be lost, but I wouldn't want it to happen to me again...

so... we definately dug this up from the dead about 9 months ago... but it's understandable...

this is the first time i have checked this forum...

my .02

i can feel the flames coming already

[nyoneway]

Under the law and common sense, you should refund his money. Since he send you the money first, you are responsible for the delivery of the goods to his hands. UPS fu*ck up does not excuse you from your responsibilities.

Althought you did not buy insurance, UPS does provide ALL packages with a minimum insurance of up to $100. That smells BS right there. And also, where is the tracking number? All those time talking to the UPS manager, you could'nt get one?

Refund his money.

[jotan82]

that's why they refunded me the shipping charges!

FYI... the stock bumper is more then $100.00

and the shipping charges came out to be more then $100...

the box I used was from when I got my blitz kit a while ago, cuz that's they only box I had that can fit the bumper... they don't have boxes bigger then a certain dimension...

I know nothing about UPS or it's policies... maybe you can fill me in since you know so much

[nyoneway]

Yes they refunded you because they could'nt delivery their service. You should refund Pork Chop because you could do what you promised.

[Personafied]

Thanks for explaining Jotan, I knew you werent shady. But I have sent many things thru UPS and they do give you a $100 insurance on anything and if you want more insurance on it than it will cost more. Did you tell PorkChop howe mush you got back? Maybe you guys could have compromised. It is still your bumper Jotan until porkchop has it in his hands. He never got it so he is owed something for it.

[jotan82]

well, he said he's coming to florida, i can get him a kit at a distributor rate... but i'm not delivering it...

[Personafied]

lol.......I think he might have a different idea

[Manny_TXtreme]

Yea like small claims...

He should get his money back without a doubt unless he consents to another kit.

[oldster]

This seems like a pretty simple case. He paid you an agreed upon amount for your product. You accepted the terms and the payment. He has not nor will he receive the product since it is "lost". You owe him any funds he paid for the product. If you fail to reimburse him then it is theft.

[jdm-style]

don't ups give out tracking numbers when u send something out? how come they couldn't trace it? well jotan...i know ur not some one that would rip off some one...and yota i was just jokin around ,i know jotan from whoring a we always mess around...well jotan i hope this thing gets cleared up

[CelicaNamja79]

Florida=Biggest Con artist manufacturer....:naughty: :naughty: :evil: :evil: :D j/k

[larryd]

dude the simple fact remains that he gave you $$ for a product and its not his fault that UPS lost it.. its not yours either but you do not have the right to keep his $$.. infact if he chose to take you to small claims court they would grant him his $$ back without batting an eye based on the story you just told us.

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

Jotan82 I did not want this to happen. I know its not your fault they lost the package......fine. You recieved some sort of refund and I recieved nothing. Thats a little bit unfair. You never got back to me about that kit at cost. I inquired about it cuz I was interested but you never got back to me. :(

[Manny_TXtreme]

He can get out of it in small claims.. hate to say it but he can get off. I've seen it happen to many times. He should refund the money because it is the right thing to do. But if it so happens that he'll rather let Porkchop take him to small claims then Porkey can get ahold of me for legal advice being that I intern for a Law Firm owned by my mother. I'll try my best to help you. We also have contacts in Florida so we can make things happen. But that should definitely be a last resort. Like proper human beings I'm sure you guys can work it out amongst yourselfs. Its basically straight forward.

[skamikaze]

how do you take someone to small claims if they live out of your state?

[Manny_TXtreme]

Pay mucho $$. But it varies from State to State.

[skamikaze]

that sucks. so if i had a small claims case of $150, wouldnt be worth it eh?

[Manny_TXtreme]

depends where the person who owes you money is. Example if he's in Florida and your in Cali. Hmm you're lookin at some definite spending money for the clerk to process that bad boy.

In the end if you do get your money back (after showing more than enough substantial proof) then you might be awarded a fraction of the initial cost. Which means what?

You spent $450 or so on small claims. He owed you $180. Judge took your word for it and awarded you money judgment of $150 (give or take $20). Get my drift. You do the math.

It is EXTREMELY hard to win such cases on for reasons that might I stress..this is not ebay, ibid or yahoo auctions.

For all big deals like kit purchases, I'm gonna result to typing somthing up and insisting on faxing it to them so they can sign and fax it to me. That will hold in court. Email and I repeat, the likelihood of email holding up in court over $500 or less is unlikely. Why? Judges are not dense. Email is not gaurded from the evil hands of itchy tampering fingers.

You look it up yourself. How much money was lost last year in SANCTIONED bidding posts (ebay, ibid, yahoo auctions etc ) .. More than 16 million dollars. I was talking to my friend about it and we couldnt believe how much money had been lost to these types of transactions because
1) You sue to make money not plunge yourself into debt
2) Half the time you dont know who your suing
3) When you do sue, you have either appear or retain legal counsel ( running you no less than $100 per appearance and lawyers will then take their sweet time dragging that case to make sure you pay up your rightly fair share of their kids christmas gifts. Or if the counselor does a package deal for unlimited no. of appearnces for $1,000 or so maybe less you never know, you're still lookin at an initial loss in the end).

I know this cuz this will be my life in less than 5 years. Lawyers get paid to console you in such matters. Without a definite oral agreement or written agreement you aint got squat and all they can do for you is submit "orders to show cause" and pray that a loophole develops where the sellers slips up.

And for those who lose emails very rapidly or delete before the transaction is complete..dont even bother wasting your time.

For me its quite simple.. I dont pay squat for legal fees so whether its $1,000 or $10 that you owe me.. I'm taking your ass to court and I dont care if its in NY, CA, or Alaska.
In the end even if I dont get my money which there is a 50% chance that could happen, the seller wouldve spent enough for me to be satisfied cuz I'll keep making sure to have my reps. ask for adjournments in order to prolong it so his attorney makes some nice $$ off his/her punk ass.

[GTS LAID]

i dont know why everyone keeps pushing the idea of court... I think that jotan is offering a better deal with the kit.. and porkchop from what we see never said no to it...

when danny starts asking for his money, and jonathan tells him to f*ck off.. thats when you'll need intervention.. till then they're communicating quite healthily...

[Manny_TXtreme]

Indeed it is..that is why I posted before only as a last resort but Skami had a question so I posted a "lil" something.

[MR2 Quik]

Well Manny_TXtreme, since you know so much about court, maybe you could do me a favor.....

If you would like I could PM you the details...probably be faster. But I do need legal advice. Let me know. Thanks

[Manny_TXtreme]

Sure thing PM me

[jotan82]

damn you guys make me out to be a burgler

[TRD-GT]

noit my business but why not go half and half???

[oldster]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
i dont know why everyone keeps pushing the idea of court... I think that jotan is offering a better deal with the kit.. and porkchop from what we see never said no to it...

when danny starts asking for his money, and jonathan tells him to f*ck off.. thats when you'll need intervention.. till then they're communicating quite healthily...

If that is the case then why did Porkchop post this thread or am I missing something? :confused:

[GTS LAID]

because:

1) Porkchop wants to put pressure on jotan
2) he wants to get advice from everyone else
3) cause he's ghey

ok for number 3 i cant back that up... but 1 and 2 work... lol

[Manny_TXtreme]

Heh

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Okae... I dunno how Florida Law works but, in California that a purchase/box with a large amount should be insured by the shipper.

[Manny_TXtreme]

Good question. Was it insured?

[MR2 Quik]

Nah, he said that it wasnt insured. Other then the $100 that they do standard. I know that I never ship things without paying for additional insurance. Even though sometimes the insurance dont help any:rolleyes:

I bought a part for my Probe and it was received broken. They said that since it was packaged wrong, it was not covered. Then why would they allow it to be shipped!?! Stupid. Either way, they (UPS) should be responsable.

[larryd]

i was the one who said court.. but i wasnt suggesting sueing him, i was just saying he could end up taking this to small claims court.. i mean I dunno, my personal opinion is to do the right thing, and the right thing here is obvious

[chameleon]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but it seems pretty obvious. Getting the package insured for $250 would have been cheap, and not getting it insured for that amount was a mistake on jotan82's part. It sucks that it got lost, but jotan82 really should send PorkchopSpecblue GT-S his money back.

[blahx]

I work at FedEx and if a package loses its airbill and tracking number.. and there is no other way to identify who the package belongs to it is sent to 'over goods' where they catalog the items by discription incase the shipper ever looks for it. I am sure UPS would have the same thing. You should try calling the ups call center and asking about that because there is a possibilty the manager doesnt know about this.. They should be able to locate the bumper easy unless it was stolen =\

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

Aight Jotan I already have the Kam front, can you get me a deal on the sides and rear? We'll call it even after that. Unless you wanna give me the money you got back.

GtS LAID you are ghey :)
Me , I'm far from ghey man.

[GTS LAID]

hahah.. you piece of sh1t... why you starting rumors like this...

[coOOlcelica]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
hahah.. you piece of sh1t... why you starting rumors like this...

biatch those are not rumors...thats the truth

[GTS LAID]

hahaha... damn you better watch your ass then..

[coOOlcelica]

hahaa......lol

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

Still I suggest something and no answer from him. He comes in here putting on a show for you guys saying he's offered me this and he has. As soon as I say OK, I never here from him. This is what I've been dealing with.

[Manny_TXtreme]

Damn bro. **** at least I know too what it feels like to get caught up in **** like this. U should read the thread going on with me. But hmm yours is not as complicated cuz you didnt receive your items so in this case it should be easy to basically get some money if not all back.

[jotan82]

Sh*T... it's not like this is my favorite forum... dam...

i haven't been on NC.org since last week.. excuse me for not replying to your every post...

you said you're coming to FL??? when you come here, i can get you a kam kit for cheap, especially without whipping costs... -150 cheaper

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

Aight how much for the whole Kam kit w/urethane front and back, fiberglass sides if I go there and get it then? I just wanna know a exact price thats all.

[oldster]

Porkchop, it's your money but I would just try and get my 250 back without confusing the issue anymore.