New tC for Celica owners to hate on

[hkspeed]

Scion just released the "Spec" tC, which is a somewhat-stripped model with a lower price. Its aimed at buyers who plan on modifying their tC from the first day of ownership. Hate away :)

http://www.scion.com/tcspec/

[SOAPY]

Dont you mean to laugh at? Its a striped down model..... :whogives:
And why call it "spec" tC, its just the same car with less options....

The Scion marketing machine is at work again to sell to the masses renamed crap. :rolleyes:

[BobtheBuilder]

The Scion marketing machine is at work again to sell to the masses renamed crap. :rolleyes:


they're probably asking for an extra 500 bills for the "spec" badge on your base model

[Carbonized_GT]

they dont even get rid of that slab of glass aka your roof.

[SOAPY]

The Scion marketing machine is at work again to sell to the masses renamed crap. :rolleyes:


they're probably asking for an extra 500 bills for the "spec" badge on your base model


For that much that **** better be made of platinum or have diamonds on it :bling:

[hkspeed]

:violin:
the spec tC is $1400 less and there is no special badge/sticker.

[SOAPY]

^^ We dont care.... Its just stupid for Scion to announce it is making a tC with no options and that its cheaper. Alot cars out there have this option you don't see those manufacturers annoucing it like it's "incredible" news or something like that.

Again the Scion marketing engine is at work to pull in idiots with money to burn. :rofl:

[TRDAzNSpEeDeR]

thats why all this Release Series crap is making idiots spend thousands more just get some gay a$$ serial number badged onto the car.

[styphon]

How is this different? It's pretty funny how this is only a "limited production model"

[SOAPY]

Its like the reverse of "special edition" cars instead of adding they take out options. Pure stupidity! :rofl:

[Shifty]

Scion=gay cheap interior=no bueno

[drewd]

I still laugh when I see those things go for as much as I paid for my 4 year old car. Theres no fun factor in driving those tanks. They suck.

[LEDmod]

"Spec" version is basically no alloy rim.... it's just a gunmetal hub cap...

[drewd]

"Spec" version is basically no alloy rim.... it's just a gunmetal hub cap...
that is so :gay:

[LEDmod]

Spec is like 15.5k and regular one is 17k

[LightningRod]

Scion = Toyota marketing genius. :laugh:

[Meltica]

:bling: :bang: :puke:

[ahnjae]

^^ We dont care.... Its just stupid for Scion to announce it is making a tC with no options and that its cheaper. Alot cars out there have this option you don't see those manufacturers annoucing it like it's "incredible" news or something like that.

Again the Scion marketing engine is at work to pull in idiots with money to burn. :rofl:

very true!! and all these dumb kids are falling for it

[Zero]

Though you mock it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Why charge you thousands more for option rims when you are going to swap them out anyway?

Maybe Scion will sell a tC in just a primer base coat. :chuckles: "For those of you with your own flare in color, we now sell a tC that comes in 'ready-to-be-painted' primer grey." :applaud:

[Carbonized_GT]

"we know your going to change your doors to lambo style doors so we didnt even give you hinges!!!"

[SOAPY]

Though you mock it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Why charge you thousands more for option rims when you are going to swap them out anyway?

Maybe Scion will sell a tC in just a primer base coat. :chuckles: "For those of you with your own flare in color, we now sell a tC that comes in 'ready-to-be-painted' primer grey." :applaud:


For a minute there I thought you're defending Scion.... :chuckles:

[Joey03_VVT-I]

Though you mock it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Why charge you thousands more for option rims when you are going to swap them out anyway?

Maybe Scion will sell a tC in just a primer base coat. :chuckles: "For those of you with your own flare in color, we now sell a tC that comes in 'ready-to-be-painted' primer grey." :applaud:
:thumbup: :D :laugh: :rofl: :chiglaugh :chuckles: :gap: :)

[Zero]

:chuckles:

Or how about, "For the enthusiast in mind, we at Scion, are releasing the tC 'spec-pec'. ( :laugh: ) With this new model trim, we are selling just the tC without the motor. For those of you who want to go fast, the 'spec-pec' is the one for you."

:chuckles:

[VVTi_pNoY]

^^^ chad you genius :D

[PassedYa]

"we know your going to change your doors to lambo style doors so we didnt even give you hinges!!!"

hahaha lmao!!

[SOAPY]

:chuckles:

Or how about, "For the enthusiast in mind, we at Scion, are releasing the tC 'spec-pec'. ( :laugh: ) With this new model trim, we are selling just the tC without the motor. For those of you who want to go fast, the 'spec-pec' is the one for you."

:chuckles:


whats funny is kids will prolly buy that. :chuckles:

[Zero]

"we know your going to change your doors to lambo style doors so we didnt even give you hinges!!!"

:excited: :faint:

Or "We know you're going to change your doors to lambo style doors, so we are now selling the tC without doors. Find the hinge kit you want and cut out the style of door you'd want for a much better fit. We at Scion strongly suggest cutting sharkfin-style doors to match that sharkfin tail spoiler, that we sell as an option." :faint:

[SOAPY]

^^ "and don't forget that you get all this at a low price of you'll never be able to afford it, thats right! All at a low price of you'll never be able to afford it. "

[Carbonized_GT]

"we at scion know that you will change out your taillights so in the special "dark" edition, we dont include taillights and as a bonus we include headlights but with no bulbs. Enjoy the stealthiness with no lights! JDM!"

[Motor]

Though you mock it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Why charge you thousands more for option rims when you are going to swap them out anyway?

Probably, the only sensible post in this thread.

[VVTLIcelica]

pretty soon Scion is just going to sell the frame! :chuckles:

[LightningRod]

Man, the progression of this thread ... wow ... just wow ... :rofl:

[Zero]

Though you mock it, I think it's a pretty good idea. Why charge you thousands more for option rims when you are going to swap them out anyway?

Probably, the only sensible post in this thread.

Thank you. When I first got my GT, I always wondered if I should've chipped in the few hundred dollars more for the 16" GT-S....thank jeebus I didn't.

[Meltica]

... since you're gonna change the rims anyway, we've removed the power windows and the air conditioner....

[EXCELON72]

why would i hate a car i can smoke???? its looks nice though.

[Joey03_VVT-I]

"Oh waite theres more! Here at SCION we will offer you a Warranty called: FIX IT TICKET FOR FREE CARD (which will help you fix up your car and not get hassled by COPS for 5 years)!" Haha.......

[MyCelicaYouNV]

we started Pre-Delivery service on those cars about 4 months ago.

They come with 16" Steelie wheels with gun metal hub caps as stated above.

They also still retain the glass roof BUT without the standard sunroof, its just a plain glass roof. None of them come with the optional MP3 player headunit and ipod hookup just the standard scion radio/cd player.

[CatalepsicFox]

wow I'm really enjoying seeing what people say on here.

[Brizzle]

i too actually thought it was a good idea. why waste money on stuff that your gonna remove and stick on ebay for a lower price?

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

Scion=gay cheap interior=no bueno


If there is one thing the tC DOES have over the Celica is a MUCH better interior.

[Hyung]

good idea another good marketing ploy by toyota.
still comes with pwr windows/locks

[Gas-n-Grease]

If there is one thing the tC DOES have over the Celica is a MUCH better interior.
probably the materials, but how the interior is design, the tC looses by a land slide.

[LightningRod]

Interior materials: +1 tC
Interior design: +1 Celica

Now if the Celica had better material to go with its design ... :drool:

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

If there is one thing the tC DOES have over the Celica is a MUCH better interior.
probably the materials, but how the interior is design, the tC looses by a land slide.


I personally dont see a comparison. I think the tC interior, materials, design, etc. Is by far better than a Celica's.

[techgeekwill]

I personally dont see a comparison. I think the tC interior, materials, design, etc. Is by far better than a Celica's.


I agree. The center stack on the tC is much better, I prefer the guages, the doors, just about everything over the Celica. The only thing I don't like about tC's are the weight. Otherwise, its a great car. Better than the celica.

[Gas-n-Grease]

I personally dont see a comparison. I think the tC interior, materials, design, etc. Is by far better than a Celica's.
just looks bland and boxy to me. celica interior looks as if you're stepping into a cockpit of a plane (unfortunately, it doesn't perform like one, :chuckles: ). i also find the radio controls more intuitive than the tC. like when you're driving around and you have to keep your eyes on the road, the big track button and volume control are right there.
oh by the way, has Scion/Toyota fixed that retractable radio door annoyance?

[MADANGEL]

:rofl: this is priceless
________
MELROSE COLLECTIVE (http://dispensaries.org)

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

I got a 06 tc and it's not as bad as you guys think. It sure as hell does not handle like my GTS but it's still pretty good for my WIFE! She loves that thing. For under $20K Great sound system 17" wheels curtain airbags and all the other safety stuff. It's not that slow either. Just don't try to take an exit with it thinking your in your GTS.

[JoManGT-S]

I don't care what they call it, a tc is just spiced up 4cly. camry, in my eyes

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

The tC is alot faster then the GT Celica, thank god I got the GTS. there is great amount of more torque the the GT, but it sits realy high. I think I have to upgrade the suspension and lower the tC.

[GTsRasta]

put the money into the celica 1st :chuckles: i once had the illusion of thinking my friend's tc accelerated a little bit more faster from a stop when i first got my gt-s, but then I remembered that it had more torque down low

[jdm_trd99]

i really dont care about tcs the celica is the real jdm and looked 100x better than the tc id rather get an xb than the :puke: tc

[SOAPY]

The tC is alot faster then the GT Celica, thank god I got the GTS. there is great amount of more torque the the GT, but it sits realy high. I think I have to upgrade the suspension and lower the tC.


Ok...... Don't want spread even more hate but its not alot faster it's about as fast as a GT. 20 extra hp doean't make up for the extra weight it carries and upgrading suspension won't do much unless it's a full on suspension upgrade. Then and only then will it be just a hair better than a GT. Just trying to be realistic thats all

[Zenith]

i still have yet to be disappointed by the celica. i enjoy it the same as from day 1

[neological]

i still have yet to be disappointed by the celica. i enjoy it the same as from day 1
Yours isn't an auto GT.

[Zenith]

Yours isn't an auto GT.

touche'

[SOAPY]

^^ I know how it is very well....:wtc:

[McCelicaGTS]

How are ppl comparing the TC to the celica is my question? We should close this thread now! The TC is what ended the celica!!!

[SOAPY]

^^:wtf: uhh....no lack of sales destroyed the celica & mr-s buddy.......not the uber cool tC :chuckles:

maybe you should get yur info straight before you say something not true. :thumbup:

[Carbonized_GT]

How are ppl comparing the TC to the celica is my question? We should close this thread now! The TC is what ended the celica!!!



:faint:

[KAT_Ayanami]

1 Question.....

Where does the inmense extra weight of the tC comes from??

It is way heavier than Civics, Acuras, and even sedans!!!

(Maybe thats why now they sell it without wheels xD)

Kat.

[SOAPY]

^^ thats a great question maybe a tC owner can care to explain...:thumbup:

[LightningRod]

Where does the inmense extra weight of the tC comes from??


Reinforced steel? To support the huge egos that come with its drivers?

[TimmyT]

three additional floorpan braces, three steel door beams, and the glass roof that's supported by a full welded steel structure.

Thats where it comes from.

[Carbonized_GT]

Reinforced steel? To support the huge egos that come with its drivers?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :laugh: :laugh:

[SOAPY]

three additional floorpan braces, three steel door beams, and the glass roof that's supported by a full welded steel structure.

Thats where it comes from.


Wow....all those reinforced extras and still has massive bodyroll.... I liked the huge ego explanation better....:chuckles:

[KAT_Ayanami]

Reinforced steel? To support the huge egos that come with its drivers?

Somebody please pay this guy, he deserves it :thumbup:

three additional floorpan braces, three steel door beams, and the glass roof that's supported by a full welded steel structure.

Thats where it comes from.

WOW! So much "crap"! And when they remove something from the car, they remove the wheels :burnout:

By the way... does that "great" ceiling comes with something to cover it? I mean, it has to be hot on summer xD

Wow....all those reinforced extras and still has massive bodyroll.... I liked the huge ego explanation better....:chuckles:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is bodyroll?

Thanks all
Kat Ayanami.

[SOAPY]

^^ Its ok....From what I understand atleast is that when the car makes a turn the if you feel like you're being thrown out your seat thats when you experience bodyroll or the car feels like it rolls back and forth on turns.....:chuckles:

I'm not sure if those are the right meanings but I've rode in a tC quite a few times and thats what car feels like on simple not fast or not hard turns. I know wouldn't wanna be in a tC on some twisty mountain roads. :ugh:

What's funny my friend (tC owner) claims he can do 80 mph on this pretty twisty road I pass everyday, but I find that to be complete BS. I even asked to go out and show me that his tC can do it, but always finds an excuse not to do it. I've got to 80 on that road but thats as far as I'll go so I doubt a tC can do it without losing control or understeering into the guardrail. :chuckles:

I hope this doesn't offend tC owners:chuckles:....It's just from my experience and my opinion. :thumbup:

[LightningRod]

Reinforced steel? To support the huge egos that come with its drivers?

Somebody please pay this guy, he deserves it :thumbup:

:bling:

[TimmyT]

My tC handles liike its on rails. And I've taken many turns faster than most people would confidently attempt.

When I got my tC. The suspension was the first thing I modified.

I was one of the first 30 people to have a quaife LSD installed. I have TRD shocks/struts, TRD springs, Hotchkis front and rear sways, and falken 451 tires.

I have no body roll... well maybe thats a large boast. But if I do have body roll. Its minimal.

[SOAPY]

^^ Good for you.... Do you wanna prize or a cookie? :chuckles:

I do respect the time and money you put into you're car :thumbup: but I have NO respect for the tC.

It's a daily driver like a Celica GT and doesn't belong on a race track of any sort....end of story

[TimmyT]

Well that is a silly statement. It really is.

How many cars are on the track and pulling more than decent times that "should only be daily driven"

Your statement is a total flame and hostile.

High 14s on a gt-s makes it something worthy of the track?
The handeling of a gt-s makes it worthy of the track?

Any car should be able to run at a track w/o being ridiculed or looked down upon. Its about the driver enjoying his car. Not what car he drives.

[LEDmod]

^^ Good for you.... Do you wanna prize or a cookie? :chuckles:

I do respect the time and money you put into you're car :thumbup: but I have NO respect for the tC.

It's a daily driver like a Celica GT and doesn't belong on a race track of any sort....end of story

Oh yea... your car is so fast and handles like god huh.... :monkey:

[SOAPY]

Your statement is a total flame and hostile.



YES IT IS SIR! You are very correct!
With that said this my opinion TimmyT so If you don't like it.......... oh well I don't care


Any car should be able to run at a track w/o being ridiculed or looked down upon. Its about the driver enjoying his car. Not what car he drives.


Uhhh...... Are you trying to form Utopian society? :wtf:
Too bad buddy, thats reality. People are gonna look down upon the car you drive. (like me :thumbup:) I guess defending a car you drive is natural response though. I will admit there are cars out on tracks that are "daily drivers" but my main point of my statement (which I guess I made to vague for you) is if the car is built to be a "daily driver" it should ONLY be a "daily driver"

Thats the tC a daily driver.

I knew you gonna say something about the GTS. Your 1st question, GTS is not a good choice to run on the drag strip. duh. Your 2nd question, a close second to the Type R stock for stock. Yeah its more suited plus having a macpherson struts is good indicator that the car is tuned towards handling.

:chuckles: I knew one of you tC kids would try to defend your uber cool tCs. :chuckles:

[SOAPY]

^^ Good for you.... Do you wanna prize or a cookie? :chuckles:

I do respect the time and money you put into you're car :thumbup: but I have NO respect for the tC.

It's a daily driver like a Celica GT and doesn't belong on a race track of any sort....end of story

Oh yea... your car is so fast and handles like god huh.... :monkey:


:chuckles: oh no not at all. I drive a GT its slow and handles ok. I just wanted to mess with this guys head and see if he'll get mad. :rofl:

[TimmyT]

I'm not defending solely tCs. I am defending any car someone wants to take to the track.

This goes for the guy in a 3 cyl geo, to the 60 year old man in the zo6.

When I see a guy having fun in a car my first response isn't "Pfft. that guy is in a geo." Its "hey nice run. :thumbup:"

Now if that guy in a geo wants to run vs. me then the attitude changes obviuosly.

I don't knock anyone for having fun.

But a scion tC w/ the available options (shocks/struts, sways, springs, clutch, quick shift, LSD, and supercharger) is more than definitly track worthy.

That tC comes out to around 25k b4 tags and liscensing.


Edit: My bad. You can not finance the supercharger w/ the tC so knock of 3.5k and you'll have to get it installed later.

[epicwolf]

anybody wanna take their TC and test it with my gt-s? :chuckles:

I dont like Scions period but i dont hate it. I am just mad that Toyota stop making exciting cars and start focusin on the sister company Scion while it is obvious that the TC and XB are a lot slower than a gt-s stock wised. Even an MR-S can beat a TC. It's a fun car to modify and make it look nice but if you wanna talk about engine work and make it a really fast car, nobody can beat the mkiv supra in the Toyota family. IMO

[LEDmod]

Some one did 500+ hp on tC already.. so their engine isn't that bad....

[SOAPY]

I'm not defending solely tCs. I am defending any car someone wants to take to the track.

This goes for the guy in a 3 cyl geo, to the 60 year old man in the zo6.

When I see a guy having fun in a car my first response isn't "Pfft. that guy is in a geo." Its "hey nice run. :thumbup:"

Now if that guy in a geo wants to run vs. me then the attitude changes obviuosly.

I don't knock anyone for having fun.

But a scion tC w/ the available options (shocks/struts, sways, springs, clutch, quick shift, LSD, and supercharger) is more than definitly track worthy.

That tC comes out to around 25k b4 tags and liscensing.


Edit: My bad. You can not finance the supercharger w/ the tC so knock of 3.5k and you'll have to get it installed later.


Ok.... IMHO tCs are not good track cars maybe they can do ok on a dragstrip but road coarses or auto x is where the tC will be beat by almost everyone. My friend has the same suspension mods as you minus the Quaife LSD and the car still feels like bodyrolls side to side. It is a BIG improvement from when he first got the car but its not trackworthy at all. Maybe take off 500 pounds of weight and it'll handle well. Emphasis on "well"

But hey tCs make some pretty good show cars :thumbsup:

oh yeah the S/C doesn't really help the tC out much
Click Here and you'll know why.... (http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/09-07-06page_Sport_Compact_Car_Comparison.htm)

[TimmyT]

That comparison has nothing to do with current gen tC's.

The current tC's don't have a supercharger. The previous generation tCs have a supercharger. However, the 07+ tC's have a different intake manifold and the old superchargers won't fit anymore.

The car in the video did not have a quaife Limited Slip Differential.

My tC for one, doesn't have any body roll you can notice. I'm not sure what your friend did wrong.

I'm quick to take someone for a ride in my tC to prove/show how well my car handles.

The quaife differential does wonders for the tC
People say/think the tC doesn't need a Limited slip differential.
Those are the ones who have never rode in/driven a tC with a ATB differential. Trust me, it turns the tC into a horse of a different color in the twisties.

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

I got a tC as well and it's not that bad. It can def smoke a GT in anything (handling, power, etc) It's not as fast as my GTS but not far behind a stock GTS. Don't hate the tC so much guys. If you want 1 also it only cost about $21k. Also, One of the reasons it weight more is the glass top alone is 700lbs with the supports for it. If you want something to hate on hate on HONDA's not a tC. Most people probably havent even driven one and are talking bs. tsk tsk. The GTS is def alot better car, I own one but tC is not that bad!!

[KAT_Ayanami]

So, In conclusion:

- If you buy a tC, you have to buy a new set of springs (like the ones you find inside a pencil)

- SOAPY car's "is so fast and handles like god".

- Even a W.Beattle can go into a track or a drag race (and compete against a Yaris or something that will be already there xD)

- TimmyT recieved a cookie, not a gift from SOAPY.

- The Reinforced steel on tCs is to support the huge egos that come with its drivers.

- tCs have so much bodyroll that if you turn hard to your left, you will find yourself on the passenger's seat.

- Toyota should re-create the celica with a v-6, RWT and a low weigh so we dont fight anymore.

Did I forget something?

Kat.

[SOAPY]

^^ if you notice i didn't say my car was "fast" and I will never claim to be "fast". My car is the inception of the phrase "it looks fast" :chuckles:

Also I understand that you guys can't ignore my bashing of the tC and my further rants on its "inferior" design. You guys presenting mods that improve and your admiration for the tC will NOT change my opinion ever.

Now I have the respect for all the work you put into your cars. Just not for the car itself. :chuckles:

also to add Scion is as bad as Honda in the Ricer catergory so they can be hated equally.

If you don't like what I'm saying then ignore it, cus your response is not going to change anything.

[SOAPY]

I understand you guys feel the need to defend it cus I'm bashing like crazy on the tC, but hey you've making the car better than the peice of crap it was and that deserves alot of respect. so I'm thinking this argument should stop now before it gets really out of hand. :thumbup:

[Zero]

I got a tC as well and it's not that bad. It can def smoke a GT in anything (handling, power, etc) It's not as fast as my GTS but not far behind a stock GTS. Don't hate the tC so much guys. If you want 1 also it only cost about $21k. Also, One of the reasons it weight more is the glass top alone is 700lbs with the supports for it. If you want something to hate on hate on HONDA's not a tC. Most people probably havent even driven one and are talking bs. tsk tsk. The GTS is def alot better car, I own one but tC is not that bad!!

The tC is a good match for the GT, but in no way STOCK form can a tC outhandle a Celica GT. The GT and GT-S have similar, if not exact same, suspension.

[neological]

The tC is a good match for the GT, but in no way STOCK form can a tC outhandle a Celica GT. The GT and GT-S have similar, if not exact same, suspension.

It's the exact same.

[Carbonized_GT]

I got a tC as well and it's not that bad. It can def smoke a GT in anything (handling, power, etc)
:laugh: :laugh:


Most people probably havent even driven one and are talking bs. tsk tsk.


Yeah, had a RS 1.0, torque was decieving but i have never felt so scared in my life to take a corner in that car. Ill repeat myself, it handles worse than my mothers RAV4. Also The seats didnt hold well.

I wont bash on certain hondas. Honda makes a few good FWD cars and a sole RWD car. The RSX-S and new Si is impressive. The S2000 i just as impressive. Its more the owners that annoy me, same goes for SOME Scion owners.

[KAT_Ayanami]

Some questions:

1- What is exacly "Ricer"? I figure out what it is, but I want to be sure :)

2- Why always honda owners are the ones called ricer?

3- Neological, Do you have a EVO? Or is just a picture of a good car?

I had another couple of questions... but I forgot as I was writting these xDDD

Kat.

[LightningRod]

Kat, you make me :laugh:

[SOAPY]

These are one of the threads that made me glad I gave the WRX to my brother instead of him buying the uber cool tC..... Very glad :chuckles:

oh yeah the whole getting the tC at 21k is great for a high schooler i guess but getting a WRX at 19k used is a WAY better buy. :thumbup:

[Carbonized_GT]

oh yeah the whole getting the tC at 21k is great for a high schooler i guess but getting a WRX at 19k used is a WAY better buy. :thumbup:


BUT IT DOESNT COME WITH FACTORY INSTALLED NEONS!!11oneone1one1

[SOAPY]

:rofl: I forgot that adds 100hp to the tC. I guess the WRX loses to the uber cool tC :wtc: :rofl:

[Zero]

The tC is a good match for the GT, but in no way STOCK form can a tC outhandle a Celica GT. The GT and GT-S have similar, if not exact same, suspension.

It's the exact same.

I thought so. Although, I didn't know if you would consider the rear-disc brakes on the GT-S a part of the suspension. :shrug:

[Zero]

I don't know why there is so much hate for the tC. It is a very decent car that comes well equipped for the price it sells for.

And with hte original topic of this thread, Toyota/Scion is really going out to give what their customers need, i.e. selling a base-base model without the stuff that you are eventually going to replace.

:faint:

[TimmyT]

The scion tC is a big car for the category it is in.

As you probably already know it uses the avensis chasis, wich is a 4 door sedan, so it has a lot of interior space.

The new civic Si only weighs 30 or so lbs less than a manual tC, and you can't fit 2 adults in the back of an Si like you can in a tC.

The tC is a ULEV vehicle. So the emissions req on the tC is strict compared to a LEV vehicle like the GT-S, Si, RSX-S.

If the tC's power plant, the 2az-fe, was running 11.1 compression like the previously stated vehicles and running 91 octane in NA form. It would easily be in the high low 15s/high 14s.

But it doesn't. This is a bonus for turbo and forced induction applications. The az family of engines with OEM forged rods, ceramic coated piston heads, forged crank shaft, Cast sleeved cylinders, and large displacement (for a 4 cylinder) makes the car love Forced induction w/o much modification, if any, to the block and internals.

A tC can run 8-10 psi on a daily driven vehicle, there are plenty of vehicles that have been running 8-10 psi for over a year now w/o incident.

On the other hand, there have been tC's running the same psi blow gaskets, etc...
This could be mechanical failure, but most likely driver error, and poor maintenance.

Who knows, I personally am not turbo yet, but my car is ready for one. I was originally waiting for CARB #s on a bolt on kit, Now that I have moved to texas, I am now waiting for turbonetics new line of turbo (gt-k) for my tC. They are un-vieling the charger at Sema this year, and probably won't be on a tC til spring next year.

After i have the kit installed with the new charger (the t3/4 charger they use on the kit now is impressive itself) i will be sure to let this forum hear my review, and keep yah posted on long run effects of forced induction on the tC.

I will endeavour to keep my review un-biased.

[Carbonized_GT]

Yeah, i had a RS 1.0, torque was decieving but i have never felt so scared in my life to take a corner in that car. Ill repeat myself, it handles worse than my mothers RAV4. Also The seats didnt hold well.

I don't know why there is so much hate for the tC. It is a very decent car that comes well equipped for the price it sells for.



My bad i didnt realize i was hating, considering i was basically repeating what nearly every magazine/tv/internet review has already said.

Constructive Criticism

[SOAPY]

^^ just like the video I posted said. :thumbup: Besides the tCs overall form & design is more of a Camry for the high schooolers than anything else.

A daily driver...

I've repeated that like 8 times already :chuckles:

[Carbonized_GT]

A daily driver...


word.

[SOAPY]

The scion tC is a big car for the category it is in.

As you probably already know it uses the avensis chasis, wich is a 4 door sedan, so it has a lot of interior space.

The new civic Si only weighs 30 or so lbs less than a manual tC, and you can't fit 2 adults in the back of an Si like you can in a tC.

The tC is a ULEV vehicle. So the emissions req on the tC is strict compared to a LEV vehicle like the GT-S, Si, RSX-S.

If the tC's power plant, the 2az-fe, was running 11.1 compression like the previously stated vehicles and running 91 octane in NA form. It would easily be in the high low 15s/high 14s.

But it doesn't. This is a bonus for turbo and forced induction applications. The az family of engines with OEM forged rods, ceramic coated piston heads, forged crank shaft, Cast sleeved cylinders, and large displacement (for a 4 cylinder) makes the car love Forced induction w/o much modification, if any, to the block and internals.

A tC can run 8-10 psi on a daily driven vehicle, there are plenty of vehicles that have been running 8-10 psi for over a year now w/o incident.

On the other hand, there have been tC's running the same psi blow gaskets, etc...
This could be mechanical failure, but most likely driver error, and poor maintenance.

Who knows, I personally am not turbo yet, but my car is ready for one. I was originally waiting for CARB #s on a bolt on kit, Now that I have moved to texas, I am now waiting for turbonetics new line of turbo (gt-k) for my tC. They are un-vieling the charger at Sema this year, and probably won't be on a tC til spring next year.

After i have the kit installed with the new charger (the t3/4 charger they use on the kit now is impressive itself) i will be sure to let this forum hear my review, and keep yah posted on long run effects of forced induction on the tC.

I will endeavour to keep my review un-biased.


Most cars run good times boosted. Another reason I tend not believe your post is because of this thread Click this and educate yourself (http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212859) Tho I do agree that the Camry engine is good for turbo application. :thumbup:

[KAT_Ayanami]

BUT IT DOESNT COME WITH FACTORY INSTALLED NEONS!!11oneone1one1

WAIT! I thought that the steering wheel was the neon!

The scion tC is a big car for the category it is in.

Big car in size?? O maybe you mean compared with the camry, which has almost the same engine ^_^U


The new civic Si only weighs 30 or so lbs less than a manual tC, and you can't fit 2 adults in the back of an Si like you can in a tC.


But you can turn without stoping the car :D

(Sorry, Im just bored)

Kat.

[TimmyT]

SOAPY:
What part do you not believe? Look up 2az-fe and You'll find all the information you want on the 2az and az family of engines. If yah don't believe me, find out for yourself

Turbonetics have been running a daily driver at 8 psi for over a year now. So if you don't believe a tC running 8-10 psi. Just get the info on the t'netics tC.

I read your thread and All i read was people saying it is too expensive to swap a tC engine into a celica gt. Not only is it an old thread, and a lot of the information is out dated, but it has nothing to do with anything I posted. It was a bunch of mis informed opinions.

Like some guy said something like "Turbonetics has a 300 hp turbo kit, but its really 280....". Its 300 Flywheel rated HP..... and they don't advertise anything but that.

And of course all the fan bois who swear "No engine is dah bomb without the v-tak yo!" like 90% of other options given was something by honda or toyota that had lift in it.

Facts are facts. You can hate on the tC all you like, but the fact is: A tC is running 11s in the 1320 with just a bolt on turbo, no LSD, Custom exhaust, Nothing done to the internals or the block and No crazy v-tak.


Kat

I said the tC was a big car for the category it is in. I didn't say anything about the engine size. I ment a big car. Dimensions and interior space.

[Carbonized_GT]

I read your thread and All i read was people saying it is too expensive to swap a tC engine into a celica gt. Not only is it an old thread, and a lot of the information is out dated, but it has nothing to do with anything I posted. It was a bunch of mis informed opinions.

So your saying it would be worthwhile to put in a 2az?

How is it misinformed?

[SOAPY]

What I'm don't believe is the 2az is that "great" of an engine. First of all most cars will do great boosted and the fact theres a tC is running 11s is not that amazing. In the thread that you obviously didn't read the posts of the Moderators "Jeese IL" "Boosted 2.0". Post #55 can sum up everything. Sorry dude I believe these guys MORE than I believe you. They're moderators for a reason.... :thumbup:

[TimmyT]

You seroiusly need to extricate your head from your posterior and realize that there are more important things than dispacement. If you follow your logic all the supra guys should be swapping V8s into their cars because apprently the ****ty little 3 liter doesn't hack it in the displacement wars.

Ultimately yes, there is no replacement for displacement, BUT that is assuming like head and block design and like cam profiles etc. The 2AZ is simply a 1AZ with slightly more displacement. Its in no way designed as a performance motor. The head on the 2ZZ alone makes it worth keeping over the 2AZ. Never mind the fact that the 2AZ has a depressingly low redline due to any number of design elements that don't support being rev happy. The whole point of swaps is more power / more power potential. If you want that you put in a 3S-GTE. If you want a stock powertrain with more power then go 2GR or something. Putting in an oversized 2AZ costs a lot and leaves you with a motor with limited potential, very limited aftermarket support, and an empty wallet.


This is an outdated representatin of the tC. How many turbo kits are available for the tc. Not to mention the varios bolt ons and the car isn't even 3 years old.

The "head" junk is "V-TAK YO!" Crap. Because the car doesn't have "Lift" the potential is not there?

Redline? WTF does redline have to do with the potential of an engine? The power band of the tC is larger than a celica GT-S.

Like I said before. that entire thread was a pro/con debate over a swap into a celica GT. And it is old.

Poorly designed? How so? I'd love to hear your take on this.

So have that the engine is a piece of junk because its bottom end won't hold up to 9000 rpm? Wonder why that is? Maybe because you take a B16, stroke it (B18) and then stroke it again, you have a B20. Maybe also because of the fact that it was designed to go in a CR-V, so the rods are weaker than a B16/B18.


Exactly what does this post have to do with a scion tC?

I don't understand why people just can't give a :thumbup: to what the 2az has done...

All this:
"yah yah.. you drive a tC in the 13s... I don't care the car is still slow and not worth modifying."

"yah yah.. there are tCs in the 8s using a turbo 2az, and tCs in the 9s using an all motor 2az... So what, the car still can't handle well."

"So your tC handles well.... Its still a slow car..."

For cryin out-loud. I don't understand What the heck you guys consider a sport compact car? Are all your opinions to the affect of: "Dag Yo.. that car crawls. It'd be aight if it had v-tak."?

Just post up your Reqs. I'm sure I'll find tCs that meet your standard.

[TimmyT]

So your saying it would be worthwhile to put in a 2az?

How is it misinformed?

I did not say it would be a good idea to put a 2az in a celica.

And the mis-informed opinions were about the 2az engine. Wich has proven itself in many national events to be an engine worth modifying.

[SOAPY]

You sit here and do everything you can to convince us that the tC is worth anything and I applaud your effort but I've told you already I'm not changing my opinion on it.

1) If it such a great engine why was it in a "Camry" of all cars?
2) If the car really has the potential you say, Why does it weigh as much as a sedan?
3) Excessive bodyroll straight from the factory, Why?
4) Why does it need a huge heavy glass roof? For speed?
5) On a road course the tC can't hang with the cars in its same class unless its modded with suspension upgrades but put the same amount of money in the other cars then its gets left behind "again"
6) I've been in a tC several times and I always feel like I'm a TANK....

So TimmyT these are six reasons why I can't see the "potential" in the tC.
Besides drag racing is not that interesting to me so stating its won numerous national events in drag racing won't impress me. Sorry dude

[SOAPY]

Oh and that thread I posted has some flaming in it. So grabbing an OT post from this thread and from a moderator does not prove anything on your behalf. It just shows that we have idiots (ie: the guy who Jesse IL is replying to) in this forum. Thats all... :thumbup: Just let it go dude. You're not convincing me at all.

[TimmyT]

I can show yah vids of tCs running just a second and some tenths behind an EVO in auto X if you want to see those.

[SOAPY]

It must of took alot of modding to get it to that point. Which deserves respect. You can if you want. The overall car is what I detest really. Not the work put behind it.

[TimmyT]

Well I couldn't find that vid. But here is another good vid of a scion winning an SCCA STS class event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrqWMXP0-4

[SOAPY]

Good. For sure that took alot of modding but good

[TimmyT]

Good is an understatment. A mazdaspeed Miata (yes a lil tic tac on wheels) finished 55 seconds.

Paul in the scion tC was lil less than 2 seconds slower.

Also that boy can drive.

[TimmyT]

Okay found the vid for the scion tc being a second and some tenths behind an evo in auto X. Notice its a different tC also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U73AeVTTypg

[Carbonized_GT]

The "head" junk is "V-TAK YO!" Crap. Because the car doesn't have "Lift" the potential is not there?

The head is junk because if you knew toyota engines the letter "F" in the 2AZ-FE, stands for ECONOMY HEAD. unlike the "G" found in the 2jz-Gte, 4a-Ge, 2zz-Ge, Which is a Performance oriented head

Redline? WTF does redline have to do with the potential of an engine? The power band of the tC is larger than a celica GT-S.

I wouldnt say your power band is better than a GTS, the 2AZ sucks at higher rpms. but you have torque. GTS has little torque yet a lot better top end.

[SOAPY]

^^ You just reminded me why you deserve respect. :thumbup: Good job!

Good is an understatment. A mazdaspeed Miata (yes a lil tic tac on wheels) finished 55 seconds.

Paul in the scion tC was lil less than 2 seconds slower.

Also that boy can drive.

Okay found the vid for the scion tc being a second and some tenths behind an evo in auto X. Notice its a different tC also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U73AeVTTypg


Drivers skills overcoming the car. I'll agree tho that kid can drive, too bad he's not driving a better car.

[TimmyT]

I know what the heck a GE and FE head are. LIke i said before. Just because it doesnt' have a GE head does not mean the potential is not there.

The Scion tC reaches peak torque at 4,000 rpm, and peak HP at 6,000 rpm.

The celica GTS reaches peak torque at 6,800 rpm, and peak hp at 7,600 rpm.

Tell me wich one has a larger power band... do you know what a power band is?

[SOAPY]

uhhh.... We all know the GTS has narrow powerband but thats mainly from lift which starts out 6200 rpm. A 6 speed GTS from what I gather is better suited to that powerband, but Carbonized GT can give you better info than me.

Besides the GTS seems to have the better power to weight ratio out of the two.

[TimmyT]

I never said anything about power to weight ratio. I said the tC had a larger power band. Wich it does.

Also I doubt he can give me a better explanation about power bands when I don't even think he knew what a power band is.

A power band is the area of RPMs your car quits making torque and starts producing power.

Wich means the car with a larger powerband is more forgiving to driver error.

For instance. The optimal shift point of a tC in 3rd gear is around 6,000 rpms (about 80 mph) I can shift at 5,000 rpms (about 70 mph) and still be in my power band and making power in 4th gear.

[SOAPY]

Man, you're really bent on convincing us the tC is "good". :wtf:

I wouldn't really question Carbonized GT that much. The guy has good info on Toyota cars.

I meant the power to ratio as a side note of course it doesn't really pretain to what you're asking. It's just something you should consider thinking about since we're talking about performance between the GTS and tC. Powerband of an engine is only good in a car if the power to weight ratio is also optimal.

[hkspeed]

its interesting where this thread has gone. TimmyT is making celica owners hate the tC even more. LOL.

Its like watching trekies argue over which generation of star trek was better. who gives a ****?

celica owners are butt hurt that their car was replaced with an underpowered and heavy cruiser.
tc owners think their cars are the **** because most are high school kids/car newbies who dont know any better.
everyone else thinks both cars are gay and would buy gti, rsx type s/civic si, or mazdaspeed3 instead (i'm only thinking of fwd cars).

[SOAPY]

^^ I like your logic. You're spot on.

The only thing I don't agree is being butt hurt about the Celica's discontinuing. Toyota doesn't care about making a true sports car anymore so you can't get butthurt about it really. One of the reasons I bought a Subaru.

Mainly TimmyT trying to shove tC worship down our throats. Its really getting annoying now.

[evolve]

scion owners in my area have left a bad impression with me. they all rev at me and expect me to race them all? Ive got 400whp, why should I burn gas and risk getting pulled over for some dood driving a scion???

[evolve]

its interesting where this thread has gone. TimmyT is making celica owners hate the tC even more. LOL.

Its like watching trekies argue over which generation of star trek was better. who gives a ****?

celica owners are butt hurt that their car was replaced with an underpowered and heavy cruiser.
tc owners think their cars are the **** because most are high school kids/car newbies who dont know any better.
everyone else thinks both cars are gay and would buy gti, rsx type s/civic si, or mazdaspeed3 instead (i'm only thinking of fwd cars).


Id get an SRT-4 before any of those. Just my opinion

[TimmyT]

You are correct in that I am trying to convince you that the tC is not a bad car, like this celica board makes them out to be. And evidently, no matter how many examples, or how much info I put up, these people can't pull thier head out of thier arses to see the light of day.

I'm not asking you to worship the tC, All I'm saying is give it props for what it has done. These people can't even do that.

[Carbonized_GT]

Of course your going to have a shorter power band, but the 2zz revs alot higher where most of its power is. The 2zz makes 15 less tq than the 2az, and 20 more hp. the 2zz loses the torque down low but makes more hp higher. IMO thats pretty sad if your 2.4 ltr cant produce as much hp and only 15 more tq. I think it may because it HAS AN ECONOMY HEAD.
I wouldn't really question Carbonized GT that much. The guy has good info on Toyota cars.


No.

[Carbonized_GT]

I'm not asking you to worship the tC, All I'm saying is give it props for what it has done. These people can't even do that.


Ill give it some props in the modified world, but im comparing stock to stock. and stock to stock a GTS would give it a whoopin in all catagories. unless your racing from 0-20. Hell maybe a GT in some cases.

tC is a good car for those in that price range. but I would never buy one for performance.

[SOAPY]

I wouldn't really question Carbonized GT that much. The guy has good info on Toyota cars.


No.


I wouldn't question your info at all??? :shrugs: What do you mean no?

[Carbonized_GT]

Because im not always right.

[SOAPY]

TimmyT I respect the work put behind the cars you've mentioned. As it stands my opinion hasn't really changed. You can't change everyones opinion

[TimmyT]

I totally agree. the 2az doesn't make the HP in stock form. And the ULEV rating is what hurts it.
But "the 2az is not worth modding" I totally disagree with.

If toyota really wanted to make a tC a stand out performer, even with a FE head, all they need to do is up the compression ratio to 11-1 like the gt-s, si, rsx-s and give it an LEV rating.

[SOAPY]

Because im not always right.


ahh I see. Very humble of you to admit that. :thumbup:

[epicwolf]

i almost bought a Scion when it came out but I was very dissapointed in terms of it's power. Then i look at it from the outside and it doesnt look aggresive. So i end up getting myself a GT-s 6 speed manual Celica and i have no regrets what so ever. More power, better looking, better handling, more futuristic looks. Enough Said.

[KAT_Ayanami]

i almost bought a Scion when it came out but I was very dissapointed in terms of it's power. Then i look at it from the outside and it doesnt look aggresive. So i end up getting myself a GT-s 6 speed manual Celica and i have no regrets what so ever. More power, better looking, better handling, more futuristic looks. Enough Said.

That was my main point to get my celica. I have never seen a car that can surpass the Celica style (Inside and outside)

Even the 90-94 celicas looks great, and so 95-99 (even better)

Celica have been always on the head of style and improvement on car looks, (same with the supra engine I believe) I cannot believe they stopped making them instead of improving them to sell more.

[SOAPY]

yeah I agree, but Toyota is about the MPG now :gay: It looks like they're content with that for now

[LightningRod]

i almost bought a Scion when it came out but I was very dissapointed in terms of it's power. Then i look at it from the outside and it doesnt look aggresive. So i end up getting myself a GT-s 6 speed manual Celica and i have no regrets what so ever. More power, better looking, better handling, more futuristic looks. Enough Said.

:werd:

They look so old already ... my Celica still looks like it just rolled fresh outta the showroom ... when I wash it of course! :gap:

[KAT_Ayanami]

And evidently, no matter how many examples, or how much info I put up, these people can't pull thier head out of thier arses to see the light of day.


Same would work for you. No matter how many times people tells you the flaws in the scion design and handling. You will always worship it.

Kat.

[KAT_Ayanami]

yeah I agree, but Toyota is about the MPG now :gay: It looks like they're content with that for now

They just dont know how to make powerfull engines like Nissan, or trick a little small engines like Honda. Thats why they ran with their tail between their legs.......

And like you say MPG is a great market now since 75% of the buyers will buy an ugly Prius just cause they will save $5 in gas. (so stupid they will buy it automatic!)

Kat

[TimmyT]

Believe me kat. I know its flaws. I own one. I never said the tC didn't have any flaws. Your Point is moot.

I never once said the tC was better than any other car. All i did was put examples and info out to credit the tC for what it has done.

But your moot point is duely noted and disregarded.

[SOAPY]

wow... Are we still on this? I thought you let it go already...:chuckles:

[Motor]

Waaaaaaaaa ! Waaaaaaaaaa ! Waaaaaaaaaaaa ! Waaaaaaaaaaaaa !

"My car is better than your car!"

"No, my car is better than your car!"

"No wwaaaayyy, my car is way better than your car!"

"No way dude, my car is wwaaaaayyyyy better than your car, dude!"

I think that about sums up this thread. :faint: :shrugs: :chuckles:

[TimmyT]

No where did I sate the tC was better than any other car.

What the celica guys said is all on them.

[Motor]

No where did I sate the tC was better than any other car.

What the celica guys said is all on them.

I didn't say you per say. I was just speaking in general. That's just how the banter came off sounding like to me for these 3 pages.

[SOAPY]

No where did I sate the tC was better than any other car.

What the celica guys said is all on them.


wow dude let it go already... no one cares anymore

[Blue Bomber]

Thread summary:

Celica is faster than tC
Any car can be made fast with money

yeah I agree, but Toyota is about the MPG now :gay: It looks like they're content with that for now

They just dont know how to make powerfull engines like Nissan, or trick a little small engines like Honda. Thats why they ran with their tail between their legs.......Check out the 306hp 3.5 V6 in the IS350 if you want power. Even more powerful than Nissan's most powerful V6 (300hp 3.5 in the Z). Even the Camry has 268hp, which would be unthinkable even 5 years ago in any family car, let alone any Toyota V6 at all. Oh yeah, and BTW, they also get more MPG than Nissan's V6s. :thumbup:

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

Hey not to start this tC to GTS back and forth thing again but, how about a 2zz in a tC?

[SOAPY]

^^ prolly not good idea cause the lack of torque, might as well get a v6 instead.

[Blue Bomber]

^^ prolly not good idea cause the lack of torque, might as well get a v6 instead.
:werd:
The tC is pretty heavy for its size, so reducing torque would only hurt performance, even if hp was greater. It'd be nice to drop in the new Camry's V6. :evil:

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

I wish I could drop the 3.3L camry v6 in there. My tC is okay accelaration but I want more power out of it. The stupid SC they make for it only adds 40hp. I don't like turbos so V6 would be the best option but then again I would have to spend shyt load of money.

[Blue Bomber]

I don't like turbos Why not? Both an SC and turbo force air into the engine, just in different ways. Both can easily kill an engine without proper tuning.V6 would be the best optionOnly problem with adding a bigger engine is the extra weight, which will offset a bit of the power gain, and make the car handle even worse. Your brakes won't thank you, either. ;)

[WHITEKNIGHT2000]

SC seems to be more organized and easier to maintain don't have to worry about oil lines the extra heat etc.

[LEDmod]

I wish I could drop the 3.3L camry v6 in there. My tC is okay accelaration but I want more power out of it. The stupid SC they make for it only adds 40hp. I don't like turbos so V6 would be the best option but then again I would have to spend shyt load of money.

I think IS250 engine would be better for tC

[drewd]

Meh, tc commercial was just on. TRD doesn't make a gay shark fin wing kit or something, do they? :puke:

[SCIKOTIC]

no there isnt a gay fin or hood scoop that adds 15hp like yall (just playin man lol) but wow i thought tc's and celicas still had a toyota power plant. The hate in some of these post i would expect from honda owners or something. Wherse the love. have yall ever heard a integra owner call a civic a waste of honda resoueces. I had to laugh after i read the first page of this post thogh. All the tc bashing ended in the only thing that a celica have better than a tc is gas millage and handling if you have a gts. Tc has the better center stack, gauges, price, faster than a gt and keeps up with the gts, interior, and rims. It even sounded like so of the celica owners were getting mad because of other celica owners saying those nice things about the tc. It dont bother me cause at shows and the track the truth comes out. Tc doesnt win everything and neither does the celica. I'm glad i got a tc it comes with haters. Thats always a good sign when some one puts enough work into hating you. Who hates yall. lol

[SCIKOTIC]

Ok...... Don't want spread even more hate but its not alot faster it's about as fast as a GT. 20 extra hp doean't make up for the extra weight it carries and upgrading suspension won't do much unless it's a full on suspension upgrade. Then and only then will it be just a hair better than a GT. Just trying to be realistic thats all
from experirence a gt doesnt quite keep up man from a stop or roll but the gts handles a hell of alot better and i would say is faster. The factory 1/4 mile numbers and what i've seen on here are realy close if im thinking right. The tc is heavier because of reinforcment and thats why they are safer than a celica. Side impact in a tc is not a problem and i rather be safe than fast. As far as a scion owner ego goes mine is fine. This thread hasnt died yet because of your ego. You really dont like tc's do you. plus more i have to "save the tc" another club member of mine has been running 10 psi for almost a year no problem and turbonetics makes a 8.5 psi kit that is stock engine safe. do a little research and you would know the little things atleast. not done yet the camry is one of the best selling cars in america with that motor, your comparison to weight and potential should have been edited; getting rid of the weight is potential, the tc comes from the factory like that because it isnt a sports car but you are comparing it to one, the glass roof is for appeal some like it some dont why do you need a huge wing,hood scoop, and big grill openings. The grill does let more air in but doesnt help for performance. do you the class its in read a review or something and you will know it usually comes in 3rd behind a civic and acura in front of a sentra, golf/jetta, and cobalt. Well it being a tank that it is. Im not arguing but its sad that you dont want to realize the real things about the tc besides weight. It didnt replace the celica true sale died on the celica becasue of the tc tho. your celica is nice and performes better than a tc but if i put the 4k i saved in my tc you would really hate tc's or is that the reason you do. The tc isnt a performance car and look how its compared to one. I repect the fact that you respect work put into the "fast" tc's thats all i ws look for so i admire that you said that but im not saving tcs im representing for the one i have driven, competted against, and i never got beat by a celica gts but they pull hard in the end about 90 mph they're at my bumper but i know tc's get beat by them generally. For real im not trying to start nothing but those are facts that i have. yes the celica gts performs better stock.

[SOAPY]

^^ Wow another Scion fanboy to the rescue of the tC......again! Why won't this thread just die already :rolleyes:

[SCIKOTIC]

^^^ read my edited post soapy im not startin anything but i guess you have to see it to believe it. come to ystc.org and the strories videos and testimonial will open your eyes. Sorry there's no celica tc comparisons over there but the tc lightly moded is compared to acuras, ser's, sti's and so much more. Of course the sti comparison is turbo tc's with 10 psi + running safely. I hope theres no grudges or anything but the animosity towards the tc isn't making you look knowledgable about things outside of your celica.

[SOAPY]

if you don't wanna create animosity then you should let this thread die already. The fact you're posting in this thread already shows to most of us you out to defend the tC. Now this thread has been kinda dead already and the original thread creator made this thread just to get us to start a flame war.

I would not say a "turbo" tC should be even be compared to a "stock" STI at all. One small mod to the STI and the tC is left in the dust again, sir. ystc.org is a tC forum and is biased opinions of tC fanboys and none of those stories or videos will "open my eyes" as you say. tCs can't even stand up to SIs, GTIs, and other cars similar stock for stock. **** even if had a supercharger it can't beat those cars. Mod the tC it'll gain ground but once you mod any those cars I mentioned the tC is back to square one.

If you read my other posts I do hold "some" knowledge on the tC. I do not hate on cars unless I have a good reason to hate it and the tC has enough reasons to hate it. Atleast for me. Sorry dude I'm not starting anything with you but trying to make me change my view when I'm sure it's not gonna change is one way to get on my bad side... So lets just end this and let the thread DIE!

[SCIKOTIC]

^^ aight its cool but i beat 00SI (which beat a gts) and 04 (with k20swap big woop) when all i had was cat back exauhst. This thread is done from me and no doubt im defending the tc and i cant do that on a celica site right. I know im off topic but if you dont mind me asking what do you have done to your celica.

[SOAPY]

not much really just rims, a drop, painted headlights, eyelids, good amount of audio, alot small appearance mods. Oh the SI comment I was talking about an 06 SI. I understand the whole defending your car from flaming thing. NC.org will give you a reality check fast Most of us already have come to terms with the weaknesses of the "Celica" and that we can't beat that many cars out there. Maybe on a canyon run a Celica has a chance but that depends on alot of conditions.

[SCIKOTIC]

thanks man and for real the tc is not a performance car. I know but thats my baby i've had for about 6 months and put so much into it already and i know how my car reacts and i cant expect everyone else to know. i apreciate it though and thanks for being real.

[SOAPY]

yeah the Celica much of performance powerhouse either. Its ok you're into your tC.

[SCIKOTIC]

I would trade for that redline though. I saw a video yesterday and gts was racing a rsx s and he stayed above 6500 the whole time. Thats where my tc cuts at. Other people have been able to go to 7200 in a tc but i havent messed with my computer yet. That top end on a gts is a killer though.

[SOAPY]

yeah the Celica much of performance powerhouse either. Its ok you're into your tC.


Whoops! I meant "not" much of a powerhouse :chuckles:

[Slushi]

my brother told me this about his 07 Scion Tc 5 speed the other day "Once I get my turbocharger installed I don't know that their is any car on the road that will be able to keep up for me, except maybe like ferrari's and porsches and stuff."

I told him that the new Mazdaspeed 3 has 260hp, 280 ft-lb, and AWD, and was about the same weight and size as his car, which only gets 230-240hp with a turbo, to which he replied "Yeah I think I could beat that by at least 5-6 car lengths in the quarter mile." I hate to say it but my brother is a full fledged ricer now, and full fledged retard when it comes to cars :(

I suggested that he go race a 5 speed SHO and see how he fares against that, he said he didn't think an old taurus would be much competition since he can beat my V8 Taurus.
For some reason he thinks his car is super fast now because it beat my taurus that at the time was running on 7 cylinders, a vacuum leak, wayyyyy overdue oil, and a driver who didn't really want to push his car very hard for fear of something else breaking, but oh well if he wants to believe his car is faster than mine and the rest of the world, i won't stop him :rolls eyes:

[Desertheatracin]

Oh man! Was searching this post and it is hilarious all the hate from fellow toyota owners! Very sad you guys are hating on a car that's base price is $16,700 and is a nice entry level coupe.

I also see some... incorrect info about the 2az motor...

2az does not have forged ceramic coated pistons.. just crap cast with weak ring lands...

No fancy rods, they actually look like toothpicks...

TRD sc is not slow or worthless by anymeans... Stock it lays down around 195-200WHP, not crank as some think. It averages around 190tq. Modified with about $500 worth of parts "sc cost me $2900" I turned 252whp / 212tq on the same dyno I ran stock 137/142. Best 1/4 with a full system at around 175 lbs and 1/2 tank of gas was a 14.336. Anyone wanna compare the supercharged tc to an 06 si now..? *LOL*

The reason the tc is not super hot on the track is the 75 pound glass roof that was a prototype for the $5000 lexus linup. The tc prototyped many items for lexus and higher end toyota models such as the first knee airbag in a toyota vehicle.

The tC has soft suspension and does roll like a ship at sea. No question about that. It also sits major high. For $400 out the door, you can make a tc whomp a celica gts in the corners. All she needs is the crappy coat hanger sways replaced with a good setup like the hotchkis I run and a set of tein h-techs. Great street combo. I personally run HKS hypermax RS's with hotchkis sways. Absolutley perfect ride and mean as sin in the corners.

Anyways tc's are very nice cars but with any car comes allot of idiots that think there poo does not stink. The scion croud gets allot of them because they cars are affordable and lots of kiddies buy them. But there are a ton of good guys in the groups just like on here or any forum.

The car definitly needs work to even be considered a "sporty" car. But even with some decent work to really make a tc shine all around your still under $20K.

Kill the hate guys, think someone said it before, and it came to mind before I read it.. all the crap talk makes some of you celica guys sound like v-tards.

[SOAPY]

For $400 out the door, you can make a tc whomp a celica gts in the corners.




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: a "GT" more likely not a "GTS" unless the tC driver is WAY better than the GTS driver. Stock for stock

[Carbonized_GT]

For $400 out the door, you can make a tc whomp a celica gts in the corners.




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: a "GT" more likely not a "GTS" unless the tC driver is WAY better than the GTS driver. Stock for stock



I swore to myself not to enter this thread again, But boredom overcame me.

The suspensions between the GT and GTS are nearly identical, the only difference is the stiffer front springs to handle the heavier 2zz.

And braking isnt that far off either.

[SOAPY]

^^
Same here... I'm tried of all the newb tC owners posting on this thread every few weeks and I swore I would just avoid this thread completely but.... that didn't happen
:chuckles: They just have to deal with the fact WE don't like the tC.

Of course you're right. I was factoring in hp numbers along with handling, even then it'll be sort of a challenge for the tC to win over a GT. I have no clue why I said stock for stock when I meant the tC with upgrades and the GTS stock:confused: (lack of sleep maybe):chuckles: Need to watch what I type.

[CEGONAX-MAN]

I really am starting to hate these scion cars they are just a regular 2door sedan car nothing special about them at all no style big ass fish glass roof fugly interior all they give ya is a nice spoiler and nice rims that's about it. Lame cars.

Scion tc= :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown

Celica= :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Desertheatracin]

Whatever :whogives:

[Motor]

http://www.ne4roc.org/forum/Smileys/classic/enguard.gif

[SOAPY]

WOW...All this effort into trying to convince us to like the tC. You should really direct it into something else instead of this useless post. Most of us don't like the tC and won't change our opinion. I've stated this way too many times already but I guess you sir can't read. Shoving tC this and tC that in our faces will only get this forum not to like you at all. Coming here just to prove something to us is just SAD. If you're not here to learn about the 7th gen Celica then leave...I'm not here to make you think your car is CRAP. I'm here to state my opinion and that is all. This ****ing thread better die for good now. :chuckles:

[KAT_Ayanami]

What do you tc haters think of this scion?

That it is a shame that somebody would spend so much money on a worthless car.

Like my friend says, "you can sculpt on a piece of crap, and it will still be a piece of crap".

I would have bought a little more expensive (and better) car. It would have been cheaper since you would have neeeded half the upgrades, and it would have driven better that a tC.

Kat.

[Desertheatracin]

That it is a shame that somebody would spend so much money on a worthless car.

Like my friend says, "you can sculpt on a piece of crap, and it will still be a piece of crap".

I would have bought a little more expensive (and better) car. It would have been cheaper since you would have neeeded half the upgrades, and it would have driven better that a tC.

Kat.


Not an issue guys, Just like the supra guys laugh at you celica owners and call you little rice boys with a crappy 2zz crap cast motors which most performance shops will not touch because they have been calling them glass engine that are known to toss a rod at a moments noticed from 1 miss shift, Just like real sports car owners that think your front wheel drive dream of a "sport car" is hilarious... All to there own. Pricks in every bunch and the pricks are out in force on this forum. I was not trying to convince anyone that the tc is great or you should like them, just found it funny you guys are crying worse than any honda group about scion. Your un-informed rants have made you look all quite retarded. Still unsure your real reasons for the tc's hate other than toyota stopped production of the celica and you have your panties in a bunch but oh well, life goes on. I do have to say after reading some posts, a large majority of the tc haters are quite uneducated about the car at all and are having tantrums like kids on the honda forums. Again all to there own, I actually have been a member of this forum looking here and there since Jan of 2006. My last post here is now, bunch of freakin crybabies with major attitudes and personal issues. Bet some of you are the kinda ***s that go around dropping key marks on tc's or other cars you hate because you only like a last gen celica. and are jelous of anything better than your ride. I am happy I am able to make you all look foolish for your rants on the track, 1/4 mile and in general quality. Hell I would rather own a mkIII mr2 than a celica anyday, much better handeling, much more potential and looks 10x better for 1/2 the cost yet you cry over a 16,700 car comparing it to your $24000 new celica gts's. How freakin GAY is that. Get a life morons.

And for the ones that are educated and cool about cars in general and building cars for the hobby and sport, sorry you have to put up with this bag of loosers on this forum. Noticed the crybabies bairly have anything done to there cars! Must be jelous of everyone else so you cry and whine on the internet.

In a way I am glad I found this post browsing for other info, and in a way I am not. Cold reminder of how stupid, hard headed and simply mis-informed some car people really are.

[Blue Bomber]

Meh, all I know is the tC will be discontinued soon since it's a Scion, so we won't have to deal with this complaining forever. :rolleyes:

[Carbonized_GT]

Just like the supra guys laugh at you celica owners


teehee. Im a supra guy.. I dont laugh at celica owners. Nor does the few other people on here have supras and have/had celicas.

[s1lv3r bull3t]

This was fun reading!! lol Priceless is right. But hey we are all Toyota right? Funny story i have to tell you all. I was getting a new battery at a auto parts store ( i think it was advanced auto parts). This 18 year old kid pulls up to my car and starts telling me all this sh**t on how i should of gotten a 2.0 L engine for my celica. I was like hmmm they dont make that. All pissed off in front of his girlfriend he drove off. Maybe 5 mins later he comes back and starts talking to me again on how he owns a i think it was a 5th gen celica and that it says its a GT but its a ST or something. Well anyways we talk a little as he is a celica owner i was being nice. All his girlfriend can do is just stare at my car then somehow he starts telling me that he will get the Scion tC. All proud of it and sh**, i asked him is it supercharged? He said yeah, then i told him thats all thats good on that car lol. He looked at me in disapointment and said well see you later and left. lol I had this strange feeling that he did not even get the Supercharger lol. As a matter of fact is there a model that it comes with a base supercharger, i dont even know. LOL Just shows you on how the kids fall for any advertising.

[SOAPY]

That it is a shame that somebody would spend so much money on a worthless car.

Like my friend says, "you can sculpt on a piece of crap, and it will still be a piece of crap".

I would have bought a little more expensive (and better) car. It would have been cheaper since you would have neeeded half the upgrades, and it would have driven better that a tC.

Kat.


Not an issue guys, Just like the supra guys laugh at you celica owners and call you little rice boys with a crappy 2zz crap cast motors which most performance shops will not touch because they have been calling them glass engine that are known to toss a rod at a moments noticed from 1 miss shift, Just like real sports car owners that think your front wheel drive dream of a "sport car" is hilarious... All to there own. Pricks in every bunch and the pricks are out in force on this forum. I was not trying to convince anyone that the tc is great or you should like them, just found it funny you guys are crying worse than any honda group about scion. Your un-informed rants have made you look all quite retarded. Still unsure your real reasons for the tc's hate other than toyota stopped production of the celica and you have your panties in a bunch but oh well, life goes on. I do have to say after reading some posts, a large majority of the tc haters are quite uneducated about the car at all and are having tantrums like kids on the honda forums. Again all to there own, I actually have been a member of this forum looking here and there since Jan of 2006. My last post here is now, bunch of freakin crybabies with major attitudes and personal issues. Bet some of you are the kinda ***s that go around dropping key marks on tc's or other cars you hate because you only like a last gen celica. and are jelous of anything better than your ride. I am happy I am able to make you all look foolish for your rants on the track, 1/4 mile and in general quality. Hell I would rather own a mkIII mr2 than a celica anyday, much better handeling, much more potential and looks 10x better for 1/2 the cost yet you cry over a 16,700 car comparing it to your $24000 new celica gts's. How freakin GAY is that. Get a life morons.

And for the ones that are educated and cool about cars in general and building cars for the hobby and sport, sorry you have to put up with this bag of loosers on this forum. Noticed the crybabies bairly have anything done to there cars! Must be jelous of everyone else so you cry and whine on the internet.

In a way I am glad I found this post browsing for other info, and in a way I am not. Cold reminder of how stupid, hard headed and simply mis-informed some car people really are.


You are merely repeating alot of what people said already. Don't you think after 4 pages of calling the tC "crap" and numerous other posts of calling it a huge "turd" that we as forum won't change our opinion and your still trying to like many others. And now your gonna call us "loosers". :rofl: You can't even spell it right! FYI this thread has been dead and over with many many times now you're the one who came to this thread to start something up to give yourself an EGO boost. All this bull**** you post and you're telling us we have no lives? :rofl: The pure fact you resurrect this thread just proves you have nothing better to do.

[KAT_Ayanami]

One thing man, put spaces and things like that bc it is tedious to read such a load of crap all together.

No ofense but:

Not an issue guys, Just like the supra guys laugh at you celica owners

Then think what they are doing with you, scion owners lol.

and call you little rice boys with a crappy 2zz crap cast motors which most performance shops will not touch because they have been calling them glass engine that are known to toss a rod at a moments noticed from 1 miss shift,

Then do like we did, take a Evo engine and put it in inside the celica. AWD and upgrades included.



Just like real sports car owners that think your front wheel drive dream of a "sport car" is hilarious...

No, we just like our cars, it is the scion community the one that comes trying to prove that their new scion COULD be able to outrun or outhandle any last gen. celica (and they are from 2000!).

You come and do that because in any review, scion tC is the WORSE coupe being made at the moment.


All to there own. Pricks in every bunch and the pricks are out in force on this forum. I was not trying to convince anyone that the tc is great or you should like them, just found it funny you guys are crying worse than any honda group about scion. Your un-informed rants have made you look all quite retarded.

Wow, I dont know about other forums, but we have people like Neological who could give you a couple of lessons about cars and its performance.

Besides, you ARE trying to convince people, but hey, a single picture of a modded scion is not going to change much...


Still unsure your real reasons for the tc's hate other than toyota stopped production of the celica and you have your panties in a bunch but oh well, life goes on.

Celica's production was stopped due to lack of sells, not because of scion. So, why sould we hate them?

In any case, the only thing that we could complaint about is the use of the letters tC for such a crappy car.


I do have to say after reading some posts, a large majority of the tc haters are quite uneducated about the car at all and are having tantrums like kids on the honda forums. Again all to there own, I actually have been a member of this forum looking here and there since Jan of 2006. My last post here is now, bunch of freakin crybabies with major attitudes and personal issues.

Like I said, I dont know about other forums. But we will see if this is you last post xD


Bet some of you are the kinda ***s that go around dropping key marks on tc's or other cars you hate because you only like a last gen celica. and are jelous of anything better than your ride.

Then why wouldnt we buy a better car if we are going to be jelous of anything better? I think you are the one that looks like a fool here, not us.


I am happy I am able to make you all look foolish for your rants on the track, 1/4 mile and in general quality.

Define the word quality please... oh! and the word track too...


Hell I would rather own a mkIII mr2 than a celica anyday, much better handeling, much more potential and looks 10x better for 1/2 the cost yet you cry over a 16,700 car comparing it to your $24000 new celica gts's. How freakin GAY is that. Get a life morons.

Well, I would rather own any RWD than a celica (well, not any) but if they make me choose between a Celica (any gen. from 1990) or a scion... Man Im taking the Celica xD

And the GTS used to cost $21.000, at least when I was looking for them ($17.000 the GT)

We have a life, thank you you are the one who doesnt have any since you have to take 20 minutes to take a U-turn.


And for the ones that are educated and cool about cars in general and building cars for the hobby and sport, sorry you have to put up with this bag of loosers on this forum. Noticed the crybabies bairly have anything done to there cars! Must be jelous of everyone else so you cry and whine on the internet.

I dont know the rest, but Im just doing this because it is fun to answer stupid people who do the same than we do, but they dont want to acept it.
Admit it, you are just doing with scion the same we do with celica.


In a way I am glad I found this post browsing for other info, and in a way I am not. Cold reminder of how stupid, hard headed and simply mis-informed some car people really are.

Good thing that those "stupid, hard headed and simply mis-informed some car people" have the same opinion that "intelligent, open minded and well-informed car people" on the field.

-----------------

Like I said, I just do this for fun while Im learning a little more everyday about car news and stuff.

Like they said, dont worry, I dont think your scion model is going to be on the market for too long. The only good thing about your car is that the price is close to a Yaris xD But as a reminder, we can give you plenty of reviews where the scion was behind any other coupe car.

I hope you are happy, you made us cry! :fawk:
Atte: Kat.

[SOAPY]

I just had a thought cross my mind. "Why is this guy here to defend a tC on a Celica forum anyway?!" :chuckles: You don't see really any Celica owners going on other forums to defend the Celica but alot of tC owners keep coming back to defend their cars on here. :rofl:

[Gas-n-Grease]

tryin' to prove and justify that their car is better ours? funny how a lot of car enthusiasts magazines put the tC last in every comparison.
I laugh and point at my own celica... i know its not a pocket rocket, but i can tell you one thing though, the celica handles a lot better. I've driven stock tCs, suspension modded tC and celica, burning a messily $400 on suspension ISN'T gonna do anything to the sorry-handling tC. And what are you gonna get for $400?! sway bars won't be enough. you'd need stiffer shocks and stiffer springs (which cost more than $400).
if you haven't noticed already, we don't like tCs. i personally dont like anyone who praises their car more than they should be (ie: i've yet to meet a modest STi and Evo owner in person. THEY'RE ALL DUMBASSES AROUND HERE!) it would be best for all of us if you just went back to those scion forums and praise your car there all you want. you're just as annoying as those jehovah's witnesses (no offense to religious people out there).

[jdm_trd99]

4 pages of scion hate :popcorn:

[GrimIndustries]

^ Right there with ya haha.

[E13]

Truth is all fwd's that make any real power (250+whp) are worthless. I've moved on to rear wheel drives, I bought an S2000. The GTS' were overpriced and underpowered and the GT was just a joke along with the mr-s, truly potent mr-s' have installed the GTS engine along with a little boost, so they have potential if u have the $$$. I spent $7k on my GTS and was making about 206 flywheel with 11.7 compression. At one time it was the fastest na 4clyinder in town and never placed worse than top 3 in two seasons of autocross. But like I said fwd's are pretty much useless when you get around 250whp. I bought a Tc, lowered it and thats all I intend to do to it, its my daily driver. I think the car looks nice and at least i can take long trips comfotably, if you really wanted to make any power you need a nice turbo kit. There are lots of guys on the scion forums putting 300 to the wheels with greddy kits and a really good tuner. I miss the fun I had in the celica but theres no replacement for displacement really, not that im going to do anything with it lol. I've started modding the S2000 and plan to regain my fastest NA title. I already ran a 13.93 with only $500 for a vafc II its P&P harness and a tune. So its proving to be a cheaper NA and is more fun to drive, tough to handle in the twisties and autocross tho. Keeps me on my toes i guess haha.

[Yrro]

Why does everyone like to hate on the tC so much? I test drove one a bit - thought it was fun to drive, a bit more torque than the celica I ended up buying.

It's not a replacement for the GT-S. It's a replacement for the GT. It doesn't handle as well, but it's got similar acceleration, and more features aimed at the people who would actually buy a GT (ie, people to whom the sunroof is a nice feature as opposed to extra weight).

And on top of that, it has many more upgrade options than a GT - and if you make one of those upgrades a suspension...

I looked at it this way - when I was trying to buy a car a year ago, an RSX-S was significantly more expensive, and you couldn't even test drive an Si without pre-ordering it six weeks in advance with a deposit. The tC is dirt cheap and a lot more fun than a non-Si civic, at least stock.

I didn't buy it because I couldn't fit in the driver's seat :) And because I finally found a used Celica GT-S in good condition. But I don't think I would have been unhappy with it compared to spending an extra $8k on an RSX, if I had decided that I wanted to get a new car.

[Gas-n-Grease]

Why does everyone like to hate on the tC so much? I test drove one a bit - thought it was fun to drive, a bit more torque than the celica I ended up buying.

It's not a replacement for the GT-S. It's a replacement for the GT. It doesn't handle as well, but it's got similar acceleration, and more features aimed at the people who would actually buy a GT (ie, people to whom the sunroof is a nice feature as opposed to extra weight).

And on top of that, it has many more upgrade options than a GT - and if you make one of those upgrades a suspension...

I looked at it this way - when I was trying to buy a car a year ago, an RSX-S was significantly more expensive, and you couldn't even test drive an Si without pre-ordering it six weeks in advance with a deposit. The tC is dirt cheap and a lot more fun than a non-Si civic, at least stock.

I didn't buy it because I couldn't fit in the driver's seat :) And because I finally found a used Celica GT-S in good condition. But I don't think I would have been unhappy with it compared to spending an extra $8k on an RSX, if I had decided that I wanted to get a new car.
like i said 5 posts up, I don't like them because of the many owners who praised them for stupid reasons and who drive like its the fastest sh*t. yea sure, the tC does come with more options (rim, spoiler, suspension etc), but you can do that to any car with aftermarket parts (probably even cheaper, too). It's just Toyota's "utlimate" marketing schemes. And thats why the tC is cheaper... its a crappily made car with more R&D in the marketing department than the car's engineering itself. i honestly think the Civic is more fun to drive than the tC. the steering and handling isn't sluggish and lathargic, although, the civic does have less power.. but hey, its a civic (si or not). it has more aftermarket support than celica and tC combined.

[Dasher17]

If I had the amount of money it costs to get a TC, i would get a used S2000 instead lol, or just mod a GTS.

[Carbonized_GT]

let the ****ing thread die.

[Paran0id]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!
Live thread, LIVE!!!

[ahnjae]

Why does everyone like to hate on the tC so much? I test drove one a bit - thought it was fun to drive, a bit more torque than the celica I ended up buying.

It's not a replacement for the GT-S. It's a replacement for the GT. It doesn't handle as well, but it's got similar acceleration, and more features aimed at the people who would actually buy a GT (ie, people to whom the sunroof is a nice feature as opposed to extra weight).

And on top of that, it has many more upgrade options than a GT - and if you make one of those upgrades a suspension...

I looked at it this way - when I was trying to buy a car a year ago, an RSX-S was significantly more expensive, and you couldn't even test drive an Si without pre-ordering it six weeks in advance with a deposit. The tC is dirt cheap and a lot more fun than a non-Si civic, at least stock.

I didn't buy it because I couldn't fit in the driver's seat :) And because I finally found a used Celica GT-S in good condition. But I don't think I would have been unhappy with it compared to spending an extra $8k on an RSX, if I had decided that I wanted to get a new car.
like i said 5 posts up, I don't like them because of the many owners who praised them for stupid reasons and who drive like its the fastest sh*t. yea sure, the tC does come with more options (rim, spoiler, suspension etc), but you can do that to any car with aftermarket parts (probably even cheaper, too). It's just Toyota's "utlimate" marketing schemes. And thats why the tC is cheaper... its a crappily made car with more R&D in the marketing department than the car's engineering itself. i honestly think the Civic is more fun to drive than the tC. the steering and handling isn't sluggish and lathargic, although, the civic does have less power.. but hey, its a civic (si or not). it has more aftermarket support than celica and tC combined.


I have a friend that studies marketing and he mentioned that they are learning about Scion. He said that they are using Scion as an example of how well their marketing schemes are.

But yes they did not spend much R&D on the Scion cars (just look at how much they are selling the car for). Its not like they developed a new motor specifically for the Scions, they are all motors from previous cars (camry, paseo, echo etc.) The TC body frame is borrowed from a Toyota model in europe which over there is actually a four door frame. They are nowhere near anytype of a performance vehicle whatsover. When being developed, Toyota wanted to keep the cost of manufacturing down and have the Scions only to resemble a performance vehicle as they do in their commercials. Think about it, have you ever seen an evo or WRX Sti commercial stating how performance orientated they are? No, because they are! Toyota released their Scion cars knowing exactly what direction and age group they wanted to sell their vehicles to and they have suceeded in doing so and much of that comes from their very low attractive price, their marketing of "customization" and "coolness".