The pros and cons between FR, RR and AWD drivetrain cars

[01 Spectra GT-S]

So what are the advantage and disadvantage between those 3 drivetrain???

[Bryan H]

depends on what you're going to use the car for
drag racing, auto-x. or what ever

fwd = a no no for drag racing, not "too" bad in auto-x
awd = drag racing if the drive line can handle the shock and auto-x if set up right
rwd. = drag racing, and auto-x it seems to excell in if set up right. and it sucks in snow

go AWD :) woo hoo..haha

[t2000gts]

my limited knowledge/experience:

FF = you probably drive one

FR = with lots of power, the rear end will go out on you, with no power, you can do nice tricks

MR = just feels weird. but overall my favorite layout for handling.

RR = no experience.

4WD = combines best of FR and FF :D

[Blk00SS]

Originally posted by t2000gts
FR = with lots of power, the rear end will go out on you, with no power, you can do nice tricks

Yeah maybe for a retard who doesn't know how to drive a RWD car. It amazes me how stupid most of you are when it comes to RWD cars

[oldster]

Originally posted by Blk00SS


Yeah maybe for a retard who doesn't know how to drive a RWD car. It amazes me how stupid most of you are when it comes to RWD cars

Surely you've heard the story about people in glass houses?:rolleyes:

[2000 XYR]

Originally posted by oldster
Surely you've heard the story about people in glass houses?:rolleyes:
Is it "People in glass houses know how to drive RWD cars"? :D

RWD is a lot more fun than FWD. :)

[oldster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2000 XYR

Is it "People in glass houses know how to drive RWD cars"? :D

RWD is a lot more fun than FWD. :) [/QUOTe

Ummmm..........not exactly what I had in mind.;)

[nmyeti]

I'll throw my $.02 in...

F/F generally = understeer in a bad way under power, its thought to be safer, and it is for sure much easier to package than a RWD car. Even when setup very well, i have a hard time with this because i just think it asks too much of the front tires. You only have so much that any contact patch can do at once. If your using all your contact patch to turn, you can not accelerate, if your using it all to stop, you can not turn... you get the idea. The front tires have to deal with the majority of the weight on them, and the fact that they are tasked with both turning and putting the power to the ground.



F/R Can be very well ballanced if done well. fronts turn, rears power... makes pretty good sense to me. There are sometimes problems with the engine weight hanging over the front axle, but this setup does quite well.

F/AWD Lots of traction, and can use that traction to keep you out of trouble. AWD systems are so different that you can get tons of different results. Most are not as quick to turn in as a FWD and take a little work to get rotated, but they repay you in the fact that they will hang on very well with all 4 wheels pulling you out of the corner.

-Nathan

[t2000gts]

Yeah maybe for a retard who doesn't know how to drive a RWD car. It amazes me how stupid most of you are when it comes to RWD cars

whoa, nice work genius. of course i don't know how to drive a RWD car, i drive a FWD celica! that's why i was saying what I thought. i specifically said "in my limited knowledge/experience:". and when i said lots of power. i didn't mean any stock showroom car, i didn't even mean any domestics, i was actually thinking of the supra. compared to an MR car, it really likes to lose the rear end a bit more when you have lots of power (as in over 450-500, no matter how well suspension is tuned, you can't erase a car's natural tendencies like that.).

hell, comparing stock to stock, a camaro or a supra will like to lose the rear end over any fwd car. not saying a skilled rwd driver can't easily take care of that, but that's it's natural tendencies.

that same natural tendency is why you can do cool things in low powered FR cars (which i also said in my original post).

[2000 XYR]

oldster -- I was just giving you a hard time -- but you knew that. ;)

I know my MR2's felt a lot more balanced than any other car I've driven. Maybe it had to do with the weight distribution front and back. Seems to me that M/R is the best way to go, unless you can get F/R with enough weight towards the back end that it won't lose grip easily. But there's only so much weight to give, and it seems to me that more HP would mean more weight in the engine, which is usually in the front. You've gotta try to use the suspension, LSD's, and traction to overcome it I guess. But I'd imagine that will only work to a certain extent.

I think the Supra does a pretty good job keeping it on the ground, you just can't mash it around the corners as much as on the straight-a-ways. That's how my truck is at least

[cjbaldw]

Here's my .02:

FF (Front engine/FWD):

Pro's:

Bad weather traction
Interior room (don't need space to run the driveshaft)

Con's:

drive wheels are also the steering wheels
traction off the line suffers due to rear squat
understeer (most FF cars understeer a good bit)
bad weight distribution

This happens to be the setup that I drive right now, that being my 99 SVT Contour. Properly set up suspensions can greatly increase the effectiveness of this drive layout from a performance perspective. Basic problem at hand is the drive wheels are the same wheels that steer the car. This problem means acceleration, steering, and turning capabilities take a hit. Good in inclement weather b/c the engine is weighing down on the drive wheels.

FR (Front engine/RWD):

Pro's:

rear squat off the line favors FR setup
drive wheels/steering wheels are separate (better handling)
better transitional handling in turns (if suspension is properly setup)
better weight distribution

Con's:

not much weight on the drive wheels
need interior space to run the driveshaft to the rear wheels


Just look to NASCAR and you'll notice all pure racing vehicles are an FR setup, and for good reason. The drive wheels and steering wheels are separate here, which means if the suspension is properly calibrated, neither acceleration nor steering and turning are negatively affected on the roadcourse or in drag racing. Also helps F/R (front/rear) weight distribution since the tranny be can located in the rear (like in the C5 Vettes), and the engine can be pushed farther back toward the firewall to help get to a 50/50 F/R weighting (like the Honda S2000). Certain manuevering is a good bit easier in an FR setup as well, such as powering out of turns on the roadcourse, although HLSD's in FF setups help in this regard as well, but the rearward squatting that occurs under any hard acceleration works for an FR setup and against an FF setup. This is, in part, the reason why FR's are so popular at the drag races. RWD traction is often an issue since their isn't near as much weight bearing down on the rear wheels, but there are ways to minimize this problem when it comes to suspension setups (panhard bars, solid axles, etc.).

FA (Front engine/AWD):

Pro's:

traction traction traction
bad weather handling rocks

Con's:

more driveline power loss (viscous couplings/etc)
wheelspin hard to induce (can hurt certain handling manuevers)
driveline parts weigh more (weight = enemy of performance)
drive wheels are also the steering wheels

FA cars do quite well off the line when it comes to racing b/c all four wheels are providing acceleration and traction. It's next to impossible to beat an FA car off the line, just ask anyone who's raced an AWD Eclipse or an Audi S4, it's always a game of catch up or "reeling them in" unless they don't launch hard. To an extent, b/c all wheels are drive wheels, handling can suffer in some instances, but overall this is a very effective setup for handling. All of the extra driveline parts and the extra weight will hurt acceleration times as the speeds rise though. It's a give and take type thing. Also more parts to fail in the driveline, and they are generally expensive to replace.

MR (Mid engine/RWD):

Pro's:

awesome drag racing setup
weight distribution
great handling

Con's:

difficult to work on generally
engine sits near the fuel supply

Ah this setup harks me back to the days of the Pontiac Fiero. A car ahead of it's time in some ways. A great drag racing setup b/c the engine weighs down on the rear drive wheels for added traction. With proper suspension setup the MR cars can handle quite well also. One problem area is that not much weight bears down on the steering wheels, which can negatively affect handling for certain manuevers, but a quick braking transition into a corner with transition most of the weight to the front wheels to offset this, but watch out for oversteer tendencies since the rearward weight layout can get the tail out quite easily. Also, since the engine sits right near the fuel tank, there's always that added chance of a fire igniting the fuel, but it's an outside chance with technology these days.

MA (Mid engine/AWD):


Pro's:

weight distribution
great handling
traction traction traction
bad weather handling rocks

Con's:

difficult to work on generally
engine sits near the fuel supply
more driveline power loss (viscous couplings/etc)
wheelspin hard to induce (can hurt certain handling manuevers)
driveline parts weigh more (weight = enemy of performance)
drive wheels are also the steering wheels

Can't think of any production cars that have this setup currently, but I'm sure they are out there. Similar to the FA setup, but better due to weight distribution and added traction from the AWD setup. Once again, additional driveline weight and less interior space due to the driveshaft are negatives here, and the AWD will take away from high speed acceleration as well.

RR (Rear engine/RWD):

Since I've never driven an RR car before, I can't relay any personal experience about this setup. The Porsche 911 uses both RR and RA setups currently. Early model 911's were infamous for various crazy handling traits, but with VSA type handling programs nowadays, the 911 is a great handling vehicle, which just goes to show that an RR setup can be a great handling car and an awesome straightline performer. Generally, RR setups handle and behave very different than the usual setups we drive (FR and FF cars). The weight distribution is the opposite and therefore the handling and suspension are very different. In most FF and FR cars, if you are powering thru a curve and the back end starts to come out, no big deal, just ease of the throttle and the back end should tuck right back in. Not so with an RR car, ease off the throttle and further out the back end goes (usually).

RA (Rear engine/AWD):

Once again, no personal experience. Similar to RR but a more stable handling machine due to the AWD, and quicker off the line due to better traction, but slower on the top end due to a heavier driveline and more moving parts. The new AWD 911's are phenomenal cars that exhibit much better handling traits than the older RR 911's, and are much more stable, so stable in fact that many folks say it doesn't feel like a 911 any more.

Hope this helps...

[MarkyMark]

Originally posted by Bryan H
depends on what you're going to use the car for
drag racing, auto-x. or what ever

hahaha!!! What the F*CK show was that thing from in your sig? Was that the Muppets Tonight?? holy sh*t, that brings back memories!!! :D

[Bobbeh]

Surely MR is best for racing... well RWD in general, eg, Formular 1 and JTC, the usual AWD Skylines are RWD in that series. Also according to a BMW advert, its more efficient to push a moving object than to pull it, hence power to the rear.

[Bryan H]

Originally posted by MarkyMark


hahaha!!! What the F*CK show was that thing from in your sig? Was that the Muppets Tonight?? holy sh*t, that brings back memories!!! :D
hey my sig rocks demmit


if awd is such a bad thing why did the skylines get banned along with the audi's from certain races?

oh yea, they were kickin everyones ass

[zooq]

i may not be the best driver on the road but from my experience, if you lose controll on a FWD you are F###ed .on the other hand it's easier (for me) to gain controll in a RWD car.

[celica2k]

id go with AWD!!!

[t2000gts]

In most FF and FR cars, if you are powering thru a curve and the back end starts to come out, no big deal, just ease of the throttle and the back end should tuck right back in.

i was under the belief that with FF (and AWD to an extent), easing off the throttle thru a curve would induce more oversteer, and keeping throttle open a bit would help it power out when oversteering (that comes from what i've experienced driving and watching). i was also under the assumption that FR did not do this (but i dunno much about that, i don't have time to experiment with FR too often :D)

[Tikked Again]

Well....since I just put the modified suspension in my mk2 supra (FR) I have re-affirmed that (in my experience) the car has better handling characteristics when I'm going full throttle around a corner as opposed to keeping a consistent amount of power around the same corner at the same speed. The back end sqats but at the same time I feel I have more control over the front. I would rather have the back end loosing traction around a corner as opposed to the front because the throttle becomes the most useful steering agent if I want to keep the car sliding (ie. drifting). I hope this information was useless...thankyou

[cjbaldw]

Originally posted by t2000gts


i was under the belief that with FF (and AWD to an extent), easing off the throttle thru a curve would induce more oversteer, and keeping throttle open a bit would help it power out when oversteering (that comes from what i've experienced driving and watching). i was also under the assumption that FR did not do this (but i dunno much about that, i don't have time to experiment with FR too often :D)

Well, this is largely dependent upon how well the suspension is tuned. Easing off throttle in my SVT Contour thru a hard turn will transition more weight to the front wheels and, in so doing, enhance the front wheels ability to turn the car. This isn't really oversteer per se, it's just understanding how the transitioning of the weight of the car affects handling during certain maneuvers. On some cars however, what you are referring to does occur, and it's called lift-throttle oversteer, and it can result in loss of control of the vehicle b/c it can induce a spin or at the very least get the car sideways unless one compensates accordingly. This type of thing can occur regardless of FF or FR setup. Well tuned FF suspensions, such as the ITR and the CSVT, exhibit typical FR handling tendencies with an FF setup. I've had personal experience road coursing a C4 Vette and I found that when the rear end started to come out on me, easing off the throttle firmed up the car in the turn. Adding more gas pedal during the same maneuver can produce a drift, but when road racing, drifting into the guy next to you on the outside of the curve isn't a very good idea :).

To sum it up, mild oversteer will almost always result when coming off throttle gradually b/c of the shifting of the cars weight from the rear wheels to the front wheels, you just need to know how to compensate, that's all. :)

[Guerillah]

I got the MR setup and I can say that it is prolly the best setup for handling and draging. Like many have said, the weight is over the rear wheels, and has a good balance. It can get scary if you dont know how to drive them. it sure is bad ass having a turbo about 1 foot away from your back, as well as the intake. If you ever do lose traction though, never let off the gas, you let off the gas in the MR2 when you're going out of control and all that weight transfer to the front causes you to spin out. i dread the day when it rains! and the gas tank isnt by the engine, its in the center under the car, although i'm sure soem setups do have it right by the engine ;)

later

[t2000gts]

ah i get it i think...a little more weight to the front = helps the front turn, too much = oversteer?

effects of transfering weight to rear seems a bit more complicated and dependent on the car and where in the turn you do it i think...