Reasoning for Impossible Turbo Setup under 5K

[lVlemphizStylez]

This is a continuation from the 300whp thread so that topic doesnt get thrown off track...But my question was a serious one...I want to know logical, unrefutable reasons for why this is impossible.

Givens:
1. Every piece of the kit DOES NOT need to be custom fabbed (Used exhaust manifolds, unless a used turbo mani runs 4k Im still not seeing the "impossibilities")
2. Leave out uneccessary parts (You DO NOT need your own personal wideband, Ive yet to go to a tuning shop that didnt have widebands for the customers use when they get their car tuned)
3. Leave the Honda remarks outside this thread, because this is STRICTLY about your CELICA, nothing more...Its a genuine question..So dont be ignorant

[Jesse IL]

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=199226

[Boosted2.0]

First Acutally READ the FAQ - specifically the DIY and cost threads - lots of great information there from the people who HAVE gone custom.

Of course it CAN be done. The questions are can it be done well, and can it be done well by the average individual. The answers generally tend to be yes it can be done well but not under $5K for most folks and No it won't be done well by the average individual. The fact of the matter is the people with the fabrication skills and knowledge to make a good custom turbo system don't have to ask other people if it can be done on the internet - they already know.

You can of course buy used kits and spruce them up for under $5K when you can find them for sale. (not a ton out there worth having on the used market though) Thats not the same as building a custom system however, thats buying a used one and improving / repairing it which was not what you asked in the first place. This is also ill advised unless you have decent diagnostic and fabrication skills, in which case you would again not be asking if its possible.

The main problem is the turbo goes on the back of the motor in a very confined space - There is also not a ton of room to run pipes back and forth. There is only one generic manifold worth having (Neukin) and if you get it you are on your own for everything else. So you either need a nice tig and some great skills, or you are at the mercy of a fabricator for your intercooler mounting, piping, downpipe, etc. You are also limited in turbo choices to whatever fits on the one decent aforementioned manifold.

You can also not go turbo without a standalone and proper fueling. Thats going to run you about $300-$400 for injectors and $700 for a power FC

You will also need tuning. The options are do it yourself (not a great idea for everyone and involves buying a datalogit and wideband) or get a professional to do it (VERY costly)

as for NEEDING a wideband - no, not necessary for day to day operation, however it is certainly the intelligent way to go - its the only window you have to make sure you aren't having rich / lean issues due to tune or some other problem


When you consider that you can get a Haas kit complete, ready to go with everything you need for about $5K or a C2 kit with all the hardware but no fuel control for $3K+ , it just doesn't make sense to hassle with building one yourself.

If you want to make a TON of power, then you will be going custom, but again you will be spending more than $5K

[J5ISALIVE]

price, reliability, power. pick two.

simple as that.

[Jesse IL]

Also it should be pointed out that any time you're quoting "hook-up" prices os things that involve you knowing some guy, it doesn't apply to 99% of the population.

The simple fact that |V|emphizStylez doesn't know that used, cheap turbo manifolds simply don't exist for the Celica should be enough to steer you away from his advice.

[lVlemphizStylez]

Also it should be pointed out that any time you're quoting "hook-up" prices os things that involve you knowing some guy, it doesn't apply to 99% of the population.

The simple fact that |V|emphizStylez doesn't know that used, cheap turbo manifolds simply don't exist for the Celica should be enough to steer you away from his advice.

so youre saying if i searched I could not find a used turbo manifold for under 4k?? I simply dont believe that..If i find the manifold for under 1k my grand total would not reach 5k with everything else factored in...

[Jesse IL]

so youre saying if i searched I could not find a used turbo manifold for under 4k??
I'm saying that if you searched you couldn't find a used turbo manofold. Period. You could buy a brand new manifold from Neukin, Hass or MWR, but then you'd have to try and fab up the whole rest of the system around it. There's a local guy who did pretty much that, and he spent over $7000 getting a custom kit fabbed up. We're not talking about Hondas here. There aren't hundreds of used DRAG turbo kits sitting around out there.

[GTsRasta]

And so the battle for middle earth begins...

[Jesse IL]

Dude, you honestly think a turbo setup consists of a manifold, plumbing, oil lines and a turbo, plus "$300 to tune it".

I'm done discussing this with you. There are people who have spent lots of time writing a quality FAQ, which you obviously haven't bothered to read. If you're going to be that lazy, why should I bother having a discussion with you?

[Boosted2.0]

Also it should be pointed out that any time you're quoting "hook-up" prices os things that involve you knowing some guy, it doesn't apply to 99% of the population.

The simple fact that |V|emphizStylez doesn't know that used, cheap turbo manifolds simply don't exist for the Celica should be enough to steer you away from his advice.

so youre saying if i searched I could not find a used turbo manifold for under 4k?? I simply dont believe that..If i find the manifold for under 1k my grand total would not reach 5k with everything else factored in...


I already answered your question and you conveniently ignored the post. Cute. Then again you also conveniently ignored the FAQ which also answers your questions. Not surprising in the slightest, but also cute.

[lVlemphizStylez]

I didnt ignore it...Im reading the FAQ right now...What im seeing in the custom kit thread is most ppl are going with VERY expensive parts..GT series turbos (of course they are going to run 1000+).

[Boosted2.0]

Make sure and follow the links on the relevant topics - they lead to other threads and surveys created specifically for those reasons.

[Jesse IL]

The other general issue with what you're talking about is that any time you go custom, the final price is highly variable. For sake of argument, I'll assume that you found a used manifold for cheap, how are you to say how much it would cost to get intercooler pipes made? Then if you start asking for things like turbo braces and intercooler mounting brackets... Where I'm from, you'd probably be talking well over $1000, which is roughly half your budget. If you think that's crazy, I could back that up with receipts from custom work.

[fraugts]

Actually, Im with Memphiz on this one...

It all depends on the shops and locations to make such things as the piping and manifold, for example (tons of places around here).
Also, you can get a nice new turbo, and it doesnt have to cost you +1K (new tech turbo, blablabla, yeah sure).
With that being said, forget about the "used kit, used parts" remark.
Now, lets get the facts straight...most members here want a setup that is as "user friendly, bolt-on type" as possible, like uhm...whats the phrase...oh, a TURBO KIT.
A kit will save you the R&D time, and the trouble for combining parts (actually, they will charge you indirectly for that). For the record, that doesnt mean reliable. Arent some kits out there with lots of issues?
Well, let me talk about my own things. My knowledge about these things about 2 years ago? zip, nada. I remember asking Boosted a lot of simple questions to put my SF kit up and running (not ashamed to admit it). This thing is so addictive, I had to keep learning about everything. So YES, common and mechanical knowledge have a lot to do with the decision of going with a kit or going custom. Not knowing anything, the decision was obvious, I went with a kit (SF). I achieved 255whp with that kit (far from well tuned), which is a real goal for most kits out there. Now that Im putting together a builted 2zz, I went the custom route. Guess what...putting aside the MWR block, I spent a LOT less than 5k for my actual setup. Am I advertising it? NO. Am I urging you to go my way? Hell NO. Im just stating that it CAN BE DONE (well done).

In my opinion, Memphiz just presented another way, another choice for things to be done. I dont know him, but I dont think there's something wrong with that.

[Boosted2.0]

Actually, Im with Memphiz on this one...

It all depends on the shops and locations to make such things as the piping and manifold, for example (tons of places around here).
Also, you can get a nice new turbo, and it doesnt have to cost you +1K (new tech turbo, blablabla, yeah sure).
With that being said, forget about the "used kit, used parts" remark.
Now, lets get the facts straight...most members here want a setup that is as "user friendly, bolt-on type" as possible, like uhm...whats the phrase...oh, a TURBO KIT.
A kit will save you the R&D time, and the trouble for combining parts (actually, they will charge you indirectly for that). For the record, that doesnt mean reliable. Arent some kits out there with lots of issues?
Well, let me talk about my own things. My knowledge about these things about 2 years ago? zip, nada. I remember asking Boosted a lot of simple questions to put my SF kit up and running (not ashamed to admit it). This thing is so addictive, I had to keep learning about everything. So YES, common and mechanical knowledge have a lot to do with the decision of going with a kit or going custom. Not knowing anything, the decision was obvious, I went with a kit (SF). I achieved 255whp with that kit (far from well tuned), which is a real goal for most kits out there. Now that Im putting together a builted 2zz, I went the custom route. Guess what...putting aside the MWR block, I spent a LOT less than 5k for my actual setup. Am I advertising it? NO. Am I urging you to go my way? Hell NO. Im just stating that it CAN BE DONE (well done).

In my opinion, Memphiz just presented another way, another choice for things to be done. I dont know him, but I dont think there's something wrong with that.


I didn't know you were doing a new custom kit (I must have missed a thread somewhere) - thats cool - what all are you doing different this time around?

[Jesse IL]

Haha...take a look at his new sig.

And here's what $350 gets you in Chicago:

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-1.jpg

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-3.jpg

That was the MODIFICATION to the downpipe, not the downpipe itself. I have yet to find a single shop in Chicago that does work like this that is at all affordable. Now remove me and insert your average 19 year old kid who's trying to put together a turbo kit for $3000. Do you think your average 19 year old kid is going to know where to go to get cheap work like this done?

This is the same rationale as to why people get rid of old cars: because your average person can no longer afford the maintenance, but a mechanic will buy and operate the car for cheap because he can do all the work and can buy parts for cheap at an auto parts store.

[Boosted2.0]

Haha...take a look at his new sig.

And here's what $350 gets you in Chicago:

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-1.jpg

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-3.jpg


Thats some really nice work. You need to get the pipe coated again now though.

I just love the word asshattery. I don't know why, I just do.

[lVlemphizStylez]

Make sure and follow the links on the relevant topics - they lead to other threads and surveys created specifically for those reasons.

I looked at the survey thread but it doesnt list specifics of the build..Just who spent what..not necessarily what they bought and how much they paid for each item. Which is my main point that Im trying to get across..If you buy GT series turbos or 600 dollar FMIC's then yes its going to be quite hard to avoid the 5k ceiling, But who said 600 dollar FMIC's and GT series turbos were your only options?? My FMIC ran me 200 bucks...and YES thats relevant because Ive yet to see a HONDA SPECIFIC FMIC...And t25's can be had for pennies...I see all of what youre saying but the level of parts that those builds contain far exceeds what Im talking about..GT series turbos for sub 300whp setups is a bit overkill..IMO..

[Black_TRD]

I looked at the survey thread but it doesnt list specifics of the build..Just who spent what..not necessarily what they bought and how much they paid for each item. Which is my main point that Im trying to get across..If you buy GT series turbos or 600 dollar FMIC's then yes its going to be quite hard to avoid the 5k ceiling, But who said 600 dollar FMIC's and GT series turbos were your only options?? My FMIC ran me 200 bucks...and YES thats relevant because Ive yet to see a HONDA SPECIFIC FMIC...And t25's can be had for pennies...I see all of what youre saying but the level of parts that those builds contain far exceeds what Im talking about..GT series turbos for sub 300whp setups is a bit overkill..IMO..

t25 on a 2zz is junk :rofl:

[lVlemphizStylez]

making sub 300 whp with a gt series turbo is junk...

[robare99]

Haha...take a look at his new sig.

And here's what $350 gets you in Chicago:

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-1.jpg

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/downpipe-3.jpg

That was the MODIFICATION to the downpipe, not the downpipe itself. I have yet to find a single shop in Chicago that does work like this that is at all affordable. Now remove me and insert your average 19 year old kid who's trying to put together a turbo kit for $3000. Do you think your average 19 year old kid is going to know where to go to get cheap work like this done?

This is the same rationale as to why people get rid of old cars: because your average person can no longer afford the maintenance, but a mechanic will buy and operate the car for cheap because he can do all the work and can buy parts for cheap at an auto parts store.


Nice work! I'm lucky that we have a machine shop, welding shop, balancing shop, and tin shop to make the little bits and pieces I need.

[Boosted2.0]

Make sure and follow the links on the relevant topics - they lead to other threads and surveys created specifically for those reasons.

I looked at the survey thread but it doesnt list specifics of the build..Just who spent what..not necessarily what they bought and how much they paid for each item. Which is my main point that Im trying to get across..If you buy GT series turbos or 600 dollar FMIC's then yes its going to be quite hard to avoid the 5k ceiling, But who said 600 dollar FMIC's and GT series turbos were your only options?? My FMIC ran me 200 bucks...and YES thats relevant because Ive yet to see a HONDA SPECIFIC FMIC...And t25's can be had for pennies...I see all of what youre saying but the level of parts that those builds contain far exceeds what Im talking about..GT series turbos for sub 300whp setups is a bit overkill..IMO..


As I said - it is possible to do it for under $5K. Just most people don't and won't. You need to have some pretty serious skills to put together a good kit that works well for that amount of money. If you are not a fabricator your odds fo doing it well for under $5K on a Celica are very seriously reduced. And you most certainly can find Honda specific FMICs - they come with mounting bracketry etc - stuff you need to get welded onto generic cores which means taking it to a fabricator and paying a hefty sum it you want it done WELL.

Thats the main problem with DIY - most people that do it cheaply do it poorly or its hacked together. *YOU* may have made a decent kit for your car (I have yet to see proof of that BTW) but MOST of the Honda DIY / custom jobs I have seen have been hacked together crap or very nice high dollar builds. Theres not a lot of the in between stuff out there.

[lVlemphizStylez]

All i can say is your honda experience sucks...which would explain your attitude towards what Im saying about custom kits (much like my Celica experience about them being slow)...And no offense but I couldnt care any less about showing you proof of my setup..(I already posted pics of my car, and I wouldnt borrow another digi cam just to photograph each and every individual part to prove anything to some dude in Texas)...Someone else in this thread already saw what I was getting at, and thats alright enough for me because hes an outside party without any intial hostility towards me. Let me know whenever youre in South Florida I'd be more than happy to meet you at Moroso to show you the amount of decent DIY setups that exist here (Given I'm not attending class at FSU at the time)

[Jesse IL]

And no offense but I couldnt care any less about showing you proof of my setup.
That's why nobody here is ever going to care about anything you have to say. If that is really your attitude, then don't get all upset when people tell you to f off and make special threads just to try and start arguments.

[Boosted2.0]

All i can say is your honda experience sucks...which would explain your attitude towards what Im saying about custom kits (much like my Celica experience about them being slow)...And no offense but I couldnt care any less about showing you proof of my setup..(I already posted pics of my car, and I wouldnt borrow another digi cam just to photograph each and every individual part to prove anything to some dude in Texas)...Someone else in this thread already saw what I was getting at, and thats alright enough for me because hes an outside party without any intial hostility towards me. Let me know whenever youre in South Florida I'd be more than happy to meet you at Moroso to show you the amount of decent DIY setups that exist here (Given I'm not attending class at FSU at the time)


My honda experience is what it is - its based on the ones I have seen and whupped up on at the tracks in So-Cal and occasionally out on the street.

As for what you see at Moroso, there is a TON of old school go-fast talent running there and in Orlando, and a huge street racing scene down by Miami (at least there used to be). Your experience there is NOT typical of the rest of the country. I've lived and travelled all over, and the majority of the Hondas you run into are riced out crapboxes. The ones you have to worry about are the relatively clean unassuming looking ones with a cage and slicks - they are the ones that tend to run 6 second 8th miles well into the triple digit speeds. They are also not even close to being in the majority



Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted2.0
Don't ask me for help - I don't like Hondas.


To be honest though, I liked Hondas a lot more before you started posting here. Whats cool is this is a Toyota Celica Forum. I don't HAVE to like Hondas. If I did, I would go to a Honda forum

[FITGT]

Why are people always pissing over Honda vs. Toyota? Truth be told is it is all about money. I hate most Hondas, cause at FIT most of them are just dropped integras with loud rice cans. I also see so many people argue over SRT-4, vs. GTS. Yes the SRT4 is fast, but it looks like ****, there is a reason the car is under 20grand new, and stock turbo. Dodge just cuts the corner in other places.

[lVlemphizStylez]

That's why nobody here is ever going to care about anything you have to say. If that is really your attitude, then don't get all upset when people tell you to f off and make special threads just to try and start arguments.

So because I dont want to go through the hassle of photographing every single piece of my old turbo setup that gives you the right to be an ******* towards me?? I see the logic...It all makes sense now...I didnt make any thread to start any argument, it was a serious question, I dont take well to "It just cant be done" ...I like "It cant be done because...."

[Boosted2.0]

I'm still curious why you were so impressed by me saying "don't ask me for help, I don't like Hondas" in that other thread. It seems like a pretty basic concept to me. I don't like the way they look (except S2000 and NSX) I don't like working on them, and I don't care to have anything to do with swapping the motor out of one into a Celica. Seems like thats my perogative...

The Celica is a sports car that looks nice, handles well and has a winning racing heritage.

[Boosted2.0]

That's why nobody here is ever going to care about anything you have to say. If that is really your attitude, then don't get all upset when people tell you to f off and make special threads just to try and start arguments.

So because I dont want to go through the hassle of photographing every single piece of my old turbo setup that gives you the right to be an ******* towards me?? I see the logic...It all makes sense now...I didnt make any thread to start any argument, it was a serious question, I dont take well to "It just cant be done" ...I like "It cant be done because...."


You miss the point. Its already been thoroughly doccumented that it CAN be done, but its costs a lot and comes with a lot of headaches. This has been proven. You claim that you can do it for "way less". Fine - show us PROOF if you want to further your argument - show us examples of where you can easily cut out hundreds of dollars without compromising performance or quality. If you have any desire to be helpful, rather than just blindly steering people that don't know any better down a road that will lead to cost and frustration, then please by aal means share your excellent low budget high quality reliable high performance turbo ideas. We would love to see your specific examples of how you can do this on a Celica.

BTW - Jesse and I both have highly customized turbo systems - we have nothing against custom turbos. We just have trouble believing people who make unfounded statements that its easy to make a low dollar high quality system.

[emotart]

The Celica is not a Honda or Dsm where you can bolt up a turbo kit to it for cheap because of vast majority of parts on ebay...On a Dsm or Honda you can get used parts for very cheap... and gethoo rig it so it works but here we are not about gethoo rigging stuff we are about quality/performance and last price.

[Jesse IL]

That's why nobody here is ever going to care about anything you have to say. If that is really your attitude, then don't get all upset when people tell you to f off and make special threads just to try and start arguments.
So because I dont want to go through the hassle of photographing every single piece of my old turbo setup that gives you the right to be an ******* towards me?? I see the logic...It all makes sense now...I didnt make any thread to start any argument, it was a serious question, I dont take well to "It just cant be done" ...I like "It cant be done because...."

Its much more complicated than that. Its the whole way you've conducted yourself since the first post you ever made here. What's funny is that you've now single out myself and Boosted even though we're far from the first people you've had problems with on this site. You have built up your own reputation, and then get upset when people write you off. You make no attempt to back up anything you say, and often say things that are just dead wrong (I could dig up threads if I really wanted to). Then when people want you to prove that you know what you're talking about, you tell them to f off? Unless you're here solely to piss people off, you might want to rethink how you conduct yourself here.

[Boosted2.0]

Unless you're here solely to piss people off

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Celicahzn]

guys ther's a custom kit for a gt on ebay right now for 1,400 the kid said he build it for a project.

[Celicahzn]

The Celica is not a Honda or Dsm where you can bolt up a turbo kit to it for cheap because of vast majority of parts on ebay...On a Dsm or Honda you can get used parts for very cheap... and gethoo rig it so it works but here we are not about gethoo rigging stuff we are about quality/performance and last price.

:king: Word

[blitzceli]

So because I don't want to go through the hassle of photographing every single piece of my old turbo setup that gives you the right to be an ******* towards me?? I see the logic...It all makes sense now...I didnt make any thread to start any argument, it was a serious question, I dont take well to "It just cant be done" ...I like "It cant be done because...." You come off as a complete idiot. I really don't think you have done any research on the turbo kit you want to build. Do you know what way the piping will be run, about how many bends in the piping?Alot of welders charges by bends more bends the more welding that needs to be done, What about the material of the piping? What ecu will you be running? Do you know how to tune it? Do you know where a shop that does, and actually KNOWS what they are doing if so did you check prices yet? Usually goes by the hr.... What manifold? What turbo? What size piping will you need where the maf is (2.66 maxes out quick), What size injectors? Anyone can throw together a kit, odds are it wont make any power unless it is designed well. To be honest you do need to post pictures of your set up so that they know that you are capable, otherwise why believe you? You seem to run your mouth alot by have nothing to back it up. If I was in your shoes I would have posted pics right away to prove them that I was capable

[Boosted2.0]

guys ther's a custom kit for a gt on ebay right now for 1,400 the kid said he build it for a project.


Cool can you link it?

[Boosted2.0]

Here are some videos of the TYPICAL runs you get from Hondas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCOEM8ntS9E

and

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/34977797-7744-4c6b-930d-c66ad13f195f.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/34977797-7744-4c6b-930d-c66ad13f195f.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/34977797-7744-4c6b-930d-c66ad13f195f.htm)

Notice how they are so slow they almost aren't even in the videos?

Thats most of what I see. Some fast ones, LOTS of slow ones with annoyingly loud fart cans

[Jesse IL]

Last time I was at the track there were a handful of well done RSX's (Club RSX meet) that were running high 13's, low 14's N/A and one beat up ass Del Sol that looked like it had been rolled and set on fire. The completely abnoxious kid was trying to get people to race him for money, so I ask him to pop his hood and you could completely see the nitrous system he was trying to hide. This car literally looked like it was going to fall apart when he would launch, and the kid was letting off the gas before the end of the track to get purposely low ET's, trying to get people to think he was an easy target.

Then there was the one time I was driving my Celica home when it was still N/A and had 18" wheels on it. Some douche in a Civic chases me down, jumps out of his car at a light and runs to the trunk to open up his nitrous bottle (since he's too ghetto for a remote bottle opener), chases me back down and lines up next to me at a light. Then I beat him and was slowing down preparing to laugh at him when he pulled the ricer quick left when you lose a race.

[Boosted2.0]

Then there was the one time I was driving my Celica home when it was still N/A and had 18" wheels on it. Some douche in a Civic chases me down, jumps out of his car at a light and runs to the trunk to open up his nitrous bottle (since he's too ghetto for a remote bottle opener), chases me back down and lines up next to me at a light. Then I beat him and was slowing down preparing to laugh at him when he pulled the ricer quick left when you lose a race.


Thats classic!

[FITGT]

I'm still curious why you were so impressed by me saying "don't ask me for help, I don't like Hondas" in that other thread. It seems like a pretty basic concept to me. I don't like the way they look (except S2000 and NSX) I don't like working on them, and I don't care to have anything to do with swapping the motor out of one into a Celica. Seems like thats my perogative...

The Celica is a sports car that looks nice, handles well and has a winning racing heritage.


lVlemphizStylez you should link that thread in your signature. If anyone reads it they will realize that it is stupid to do that swap. I think boosted2.0 was anoyed, like the rest of us, with people trying to swap in other engines, they should just go and buy that car then.

[Boosted2.0]

I'm still curious why you were so impressed by me saying "don't ask me for help, I don't like Hondas" in that other thread. It seems like a pretty basic concept to me. I don't like the way they look (except S2000 and NSX) I don't like working on them, and I don't care to have anything to do with swapping the motor out of one into a Celica. Seems like thats my perogative...

The Celica is a sports car that looks nice, handles well and has a winning racing heritage.


lVlemphizStylez you should link that thread in your signature. If anyone reads it they will realize that it is stupid to do that swap. I think boosted2.0 was anoyed, like the rest of us, with people trying to swap in other engines, they should just go and buy that car then.


I'm not really annoyed by it, I just don't want to have to answer 100 questions when someone decides they want to do this, figures out the real complexity of it halfway through, and then wants me to explain every little thing like how to make a Toyota Gauge package with multiplex communications somehow talk to the Honda ECU.


Hmmm, now that I think about it I guess I am annoyed ;)

[carboncelicagt]

all i know is 3 years ago i decided to go turbo. I thought i could do it for under 5k. I bought the first c2 kit at a ridiculously low price. Tried to install it myself, had some problems, ended up paying 800.00 in parts to get it running correctly, it was one of the first kits made. Then tuned it only to find out that the injectors and pump were trash for even just 5 psi. Had to buy all of that, then i found out the emanage sucked ass, now i need to buy a PFC. My emanage doesnt hold a good tune so i had to buy a wideband. I had to buy a clutch, the stock one went the week i installed the turbo. I put a 6 puck in and blew my tranny costingmeabout 1500.00. Now i have to buy a street disc.

I mean, in theory you can do this for under 5k, but honestly, **** HAPPENS. if you only have 5k when you start this project and **** happens, be prepared to get ****ted on when you dont have enough money to finish it. ANd thats a problem if you donthave a beater. Oh you dont have a beater while your car is being worked on?? thats another 500.00 plus insurance that you forgot to factor in, or just piss your girlfriend off and drive her car around for a while. I think thats why she left me actually..

[FITGT]

I'm not really annoyed by it, I just don't want to have to answer 100 questions when someone decides they want to do this, figures out the real complexity of it halfway through, and then wants me to explain every little thing like how to make a Toyota Gauge package with multiplex communications somehow talk to the Honda ECU.


Hmmm, now that I think about it I guess I am annoyed ;)


I know what you mean, I am just confused on why they do not buy that car in the first place? The GT comes with the 1zzfe, and the GTS with the 2zzge. That is no surprise.

Oh you dont have a beater while your car is being worked on?? thats another 500.00 plus insurance that you forgot to factor in, or just piss your girlfriend off and drive her car around for a while. I think thats why she left me actually..


Girl>any car any day

[trdnerd]

Ive spent more than 5 grand fixing **** that broke. I'm sure you can do it but in the long run its going to go way above 5 grand.

[lVlemphizStylez]

You miss the point. Its already been thoroughly doccumented that it CAN be done, but its costs a lot and comes with a lot of headaches. This has been proven. You claim that you can do it for "way less". Fine - show us PROOF if you want to further your argument - show us examples of where you can easily cut out hundreds of dollars without compromising performance or quality. If you have any desire to be helpful, rather than just blindly steering people that don't know any better down a road that will lead to cost and frustration, then please by aal means share your excellent low budget high quality reliable high performance turbo ideas. We would love to see your specific examples of how you can do this on a Celica.

BTW - Jesse and I both have highly customized turbo systems - we have nothing against custom turbos. We just have trouble believing people who make unfounded statements that its easy to make a low dollar high quality system.

youll get your pictures...I really dont know what good its going to do you now though..its no longer on my car...Im not going to include the sc61 in the pricing because that was a pricey turbo...Youll get pics of the old setup (t3/t4 garrett)..What would this change?? They are all bought products that didnt require serious modification (hell my charge piping was an old CAI)

[BuRn1nG]

youll get your pictures...I really dont know what good its going to do you now though..its no longer on my car...Im not going to include the sc61 in the pricing because that was a pricey turbo...Youll get pics of the old setup (t3/t4 garrett)..What would this change?? They are all bought products that didnt require serious modification (hell my charge piping was an old CAI)

:rofl: it already sounds that you had a completely garbage turbo setup..
but dont take any pics of other peoples setups now. :nono:
we want to see your amazing talent with turbo setups

[Boosted2.0]

You miss the point. Its already been thoroughly doccumented that it CAN be done, but its costs a lot and comes with a lot of headaches. This has been proven. You claim that you can do it for "way less". Fine - show us PROOF if you want to further your argument - show us examples of where you can easily cut out hundreds of dollars without compromising performance or quality. If you have any desire to be helpful, rather than just blindly steering people that don't know any better down a road that will lead to cost and frustration, then please by aal means share your excellent low budget high quality reliable high performance turbo ideas. We would love to see your specific examples of how you can do this on a Celica.

BTW - Jesse and I both have highly customized turbo systems - we have nothing against custom turbos. We just have trouble believing people who make unfounded statements that its easy to make a low dollar high quality system.

youll get your pictures...I really dont know what good its going to do you now though..its no longer on my car...Im not going to include the sc61 in the pricing because that was a pricey turbo...Youll get pics of the old setup (t3/t4 garrett)..What would this prove?? Its not uncommon knowledge that you can get homemade turbo setups for cheap on a b series engine..


Well, it might prove you aren't a total poser. It will also prove our point of the differences between Honda and Toyota - you won't find lots of cheap homemade turbos for the Celica. In fact you won't find any most likely.

Was the SC61 the turbo you ran 12s with? If so you would have to include it wouldn't you? I mean, if your going to say you can run a good number with a cheap kit that cheap kit had best be the one you ran the number with.

I have a T3/T4 myself. Its not that expensive - I spent about $2100 for my turbo, oil lines, coolant lines, Tial WG, turbo / wastegate adapter, 3" downpipe with V-Band clamp to turbo, all gaskets and hardware (all brand new as a kit). I have since modified it and added a bunch of coatings. I also ported and coated the manifold PLUS I had to buy BOV, build a custom FMIC system, couplers, clamps, battery relocation, filter, standalone, injectors, fuel rail etc.

It gets expensive fast. Its not JUST a turbo and some pipes. Plus, as the guys have mentioned - other things start to go, like clutch etc., and then you have to upgrade all that. And if you can't do the work yourself it gets REALLY expensive paying for labor and tuning, which is exactly the boat a lot of these guys are in. A nice kit with good install instructions will (for them) cost less in the long run.

[Jesse IL]

This all reminds me of the PM's I get about transmission work...

Some guy: So Jesse, I read your post and I wanted to ask you, is it about $350 to rebuild a transmission?

Jesse: Like I said in my post, I paid $350 (5 hours labor) to have a transmission coompletely pulled down and rebuilt, plus a new diff installed. This DID NOT include parts, which will vary depending on the condition of your trans, and was for a loose transmission.

Some guy: What do you mean loose transmission?

Jesse: Loose transmission as in I removed it from the car myself and dropped it off at the shop. If you can't do that, you should triple the labor estimate.

Then I don't get a response. There's a million potential projects or complex mods that never happen because there are only a handful of people who could pull it off. Look at the DBW to cable throttle info. Nobody's actually done it, even though we've gone as far as making a pinout and determining roughly what parts are needed, because it involves custom wiring and because I can't give an exact bill of materials to do the project.

The point is that sure, someone with some fabrication skills and serious mechanical know-how could probably put together a working turbo system with used and/or mid-level parts, but there's no point in beating that into the ground if the people you're preaching to aren't that person.

[Jesse IL]

I have a T3/T4 myself. Its not that expensive - I spent about $2100 for my turbo, oil lines, coolant lines, Tial WG, turbo / wastegate adapter, 3" downpipe with V-Band clamp to turbo, all gaskets and hardware (all brand new as a kit). I have since modified it and added a bunch of coatings. I also ported and coated the manifold PLUS I had to buy BOV, build a custom FMIC system, couplers, clamps, battery relocation, filter, standalone, injectors, fuel rail etc.

It gets expensive fast. Its not JUST a turbo and some pipes.
For example, I wanted to add coolant lines to my turbo. by the time I ordered two fittings, thermo-tec hose shield and hoses, I was up to nearly $100 with shipping. I can't say this for sure, but I'd be willing to bet things like this manage to get left off the "$3000 invoice" for a custom turbo system.
The point is that sure, someone with some fabrication skills and serious mechanical know-how could probably put together a working turbo system with used and/or mid-level parts, but there's no point in beating that into the ground if the people you're preaching to aren't that person.

And if you can't do the work yourself it gets REALLY expensive paying for labor and tuning, which is exactly the boat a lot of these guys are in.
That's what I'm trying to say. When some guy says he wants to build a turbo system for $3000, the first thing you should do is determine if he's some serious budget DIYer or a kid dreaming it up in between classes.

[Boosted2.0]

That's what I'm trying to say. When some guy says he wants to build a turbo system for $3000, the first thing you should do is determine if he's some serious budget DIYer or a kid dreaming it up in between classes.


Yup - but you usually know right off the bat anyways

Kid dreaming: "I say xxxxx turbo on Ebay for only $xxx does this work well with the Celica? I'm building a custom kit" or "I just got $2000 for Christmas ans I'm going to build my own turbo kit, has anyone here tuned with the S-AFC?"


Most of the serious DIY guys we have already know because they've been around the site for a while so we know they arent full of it.

[lVlemphizStylez]

Well, it might prove you aren't a total poser. It will also prove our point of the differences between Honda and Toyota - you won't find lots of cheap homemade turbos for the Celica. In fact you won't find any most likely.

Was the SC61 the turbo you ran 12s with? If so you would have to include it wouldn't you? I mean, if your going to say you can run a good number with a cheap kit that cheap kit had best be the one you ran the number with.

I have a T3/T4 myself. Its not that expensive - I spent about $2100 for my turbo, oil lines, coolant lines, Tial WG, turbo / wastegate adapter, 3" downpipe with V-Band clamp to turbo, all gaskets and hardware (all brand new as a kit). I have since modified it and added a bunch of coatings. I also ported and coated the manifold PLUS I had to buy BOV, build a custom FMIC system, couplers, clamps, battery relocation, filter, standalone, injectors, fuel rail etc.

It gets expensive fast. Its not JUST a turbo and some pipes. Plus, as the guys have mentioned - other things start to go, like clutch etc., and then you have to upgrade all that. And if you can't do the work yourself it gets REALLY expensive paying for labor and tuning, which is exactly the boat a lot of these guys are in. A nice kit with good install instructions will (for them) cost less in the long run.

I didnt get into the 12's with a t3/t4...Low 13's on the t3/t4...And 2100 for your t3/t4?? They go for like 300-400 used

[trdnerd]

He said "I spent about $2100 for my turbo, oil lines, coolant lines, Tial WG, turbo / wastegate adapter, 3" downpipe with V-Band clamp to turbo, all gaskets and hardware (all brand new as a kit)."

[BuRn1nG]

I didnt get into the 12's with a t3/t4...Low 13's on the t3/t4...And 2100 for your t3/t4?? They go for like 300-400 used

if you opened up your eyes and your brain then you would have understood that he mean turbo plus all the hardware that he purchased BRAND NEW at that time. :idiot:

[SickCelica696]

Man you need to quit while your behind. Go hang out with 140gt and Cego-man. Every further post is just lowering your e-cred.

[lVlemphizStylez]

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/thumbs/large/965876_rlj8k/t3t4forNCorg.jpg

t3/t4 with a turbonetics WG (cheap stuff) the manifold was given to me by a friend (I never used it, I have a used drag mani that Im looking all over for, I have reason to believe someone borrowed it without telling me) ..I took pictures of the DP...The FMIC ive already sold..

[BuRn1nG]

the pic doesnt show

[lVlemphizStylez]

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/files/965877_1mqne/DPwitVclampforNCorg.jpg

DP which is also for sale now...Do you want pics of the charge piping as well?? Its just old CAI's and other U Bends from JC Whitney..You can believe im full of **** all you want..but the truth of the matter is Ive done alright for myself especially with what Ive had to work with..My sc61 setup was more put together with more expensive parts but thats not the setup Id use to make my point (Tial WG, Precision Turbo, RC injectors instead of DSM blue tops)

for some reason we-todd is resizing my images automatically now

[emotart]

use imageshack.us to host betta

[Boosted2.0]

Well, it might prove you aren't a total poser. It will also prove our point of the differences between Honda and Toyota - you won't find lots of cheap homemade turbos for the Celica. In fact you won't find any most likely.

Was the SC61 the turbo you ran 12s with? If so you would have to include it wouldn't you? I mean, if your going to say you can run a good number with a cheap kit that cheap kit had best be the one you ran the number with.

I have a T3/T4 myself. Its not that expensive - I spent about $2100 for my turbo, oil lines, coolant lines, Tial WG, turbo / wastegate adapter, 3" downpipe with V-Band clamp to turbo, all gaskets and hardware (all brand new as a kit) . I have since modified it and added a bunch of coatings. I also ported and coated the manifold PLUS I had to buy BOV, build a custom FMIC system, couplers, clamps, battery relocation, filter, standalone, injectors, fuel rail etc.

It gets expensive fast. Its not JUST a turbo and some pipes. Plus, as the guys have mentioned - other things start to go, like clutch etc., and then you have to upgrade all that. And if you can't do the work yourself it gets REALLY expensive paying for labor and tuning, which is exactly the boat a lot of these guys are in. A nice kit with good install instructions will (for them) cost less in the long run.

And 2100 for your t3/t4?? They go for like 300-400 used


Once again you prove our point that you don't bother to read or research anything and just spout off a bunch of BS - as has been pointed out and as I wrote in very plain english, that price was for all of that brand new as a kit.

I don't like buying used turbos - you are just asking for bad seals / shaft play if you buy one you havent laid eyes and hands on.

Now - as fasr as your car is concerned -

1 -you are talking about a system that you only hit 13s with
2 - you got a hookup for a free manifold that was already engineered for your application
3 - you bought a common used turbo and WG that didn't make a ton of power and COULD have turned out to have needed a full rebuild
4 - we haven't seen a system yet - just a pic of a manifold and turbo.
5 - you had to run the charge pipe a whopping 2 feet from turbo outlet to the IC. The Celica has to come all the way from the back of the motor and around a very tight spot by the tow hooks. Theres a hell of a lot more engineering required on the Celica.

Yes, you hung a turbo on the car and went faster than before, but you obviously werent satisfied with the setup as you upgraded everything.

Our goal is to keep people from wasting time and money and stress when they don't have to. THAT is why we tell them that under $5K for a kit that comes with all brand new parts including a GT series BB turbo, injectors, exhaust, intercooler, all pipes, couplers, clamps, etc. - EVERYTHING you need for a proper 300+ HP application, all brand new - is a heck of a good deal. It comes with instructions, and isn't that hard to put on in a DIY setup. VERY different from trying to design all of that yourself.

[lVlemphizStylez]

what more pictures do you require I already told you the damn thing is no longer on my car?? Would you like pics of the DSM blue tops as well?? and BTW it was low 13's..and it looks like you dont read before you spout off either...I said i didnt use that mani..I have a drag mani I used that Im searching for...

The fact that you buy everything new would explain why its so hard for you to grasp a turbo setup below the 3k margin

[Boosted2.0]

I assumed the picture of your kit you posted was actually a picture of YOUR kit. My mistake.

The point to having you post more pictures is so we can see if its hacked together crap or something that looks decent.

you never took any pics of it on your car after you finished it?

Did you build the DP yourself - buy it from someone else or what?

[lVlemphizStylez]

I dont own a Digi cam..I had to borrow one today in order to take these..The pics you see are my parts..But of course they are no longer on the car..And to be honest, I never felt the urge to take pictures of a turboed B series (really not that special)..The only thing on my setup that required custom fabbing (and I wouldnt even call it that) was the cutting of the pipes from JC Whitney (Hacksaw and a few measurements). Also I had to tap my oil pan and use some Home depot oil return brass, and the dsm blue tops required you to wire in a resistor box...the DP was purchased for 200 bucks

[Boosted2.0]

So how about the DP? Did you buy it used, new - build it yourself?

How much did you pay for hoses, clamps & couplers

how about the charge pipes and air filter

how much were the injectors (used DSM stuff doesn't fit our cars BTW - they use the narrow body type denso injectors)

what did you use for an EMS and what did it cost to tune?

Here are some pics of an early Celica Kit (they have come a long ways since) - these used to go for about $3250 - $3500 new. No injectors but they did come with a piggyback and FMU setup that pretty much worked, just not real well. Injectors and a Power FC is a much better solution.

http://www.controlledinertia.com/Portals/0/382/SF%20turbo.JPG

http://www.controlledinertia.com/Portals/0/382/SF%20Turbo3.JPG

The newer Haas kit is MORE complete than this, comes with a high quality BB turbo, midpipe in addition to DP, injectors. etc. Def worth the extra $$$

[lVlemphizStylez]

all of my parts were used..Used DSM's (100 bucks even)..Used DP..Used Turbo (350 bucks). But like I said I have friends that have already gone my route and I know I can trust their used parts.

Charge Pipes:
I already had a cold Air intake I had from Ebay (100 bucks)
I got all my charge piping from JC Whitney...
2 of these 81ZX3031U
1 of these 81ZX2953P

For hoses..Home Depot in the plumbing section...roughly 45 bucks and i bought like 20 feet of vacuum hose
EMS: This is pennies for a Honda...OBD1 ecu , socketed and chipped by myself..150 bucks..Accepts any 28 pin eprom with a crome pro rom, hondata rom etc..My first setup I didnt tune myself, costed me 300 dollars for a street tune

[Boosted2.0]

all of my parts were used..Used DSM's..Used DP..Used Turbo. But like I said I have friends that have already gone my route and I know I can trust their used parts.

Charge Pipes:
I already had a cold Air intake I had from Ebay (100 bucks)
I got all my charge piping from JC Whitney...
2 of these 81ZX3031U
1 of these 81ZX2953P

For hoses..Home Depot in the plumbing section...roughly 45 bucks
EMS: This is pennies for a Honda...OBD1 ecu , socketed and chipped by myself..150 bucks..Accepts any 28 pin eprom with a crome pro rom, hondata rom etc..My first setup I didnt tune myself, costed me 300 dollars for a street tune


Right - so you knew you could trust the parts because they came from friends. There are virtually NO Celica kits available used for sale to friends or anyone else. So if you do find one its in goodness only knows what condition over Ebay or whatnot.

The Celica ECU cannot be chipped or reprogrammed - standalone and tuning is a must

The ONLY DP manufacturers are the people that build kits and none of them sell them seperate.

The ONLY plug N play (bracketed to fit) intercooler and pipe kits are from the kit manufacturers and don't come seperate.

The kits which you are so disdainfull of come with all brand new parts, and they are high quality parts. Powder coated charge lines, Nice large intercoolers, Brand new injectors that fit without modification. GT28RS BB turbo. All fittings, hoses, couplers, etc.

PLUS most Celica owners don't have freinds that have done it before so they don't know how things need to be setup - the instructions are needed.

I think we've established that you put a functional kit together for your car for a couple Grand. BUT you did it using methods that just aren't available for the Celica.

and THAT is exactly why we tell people that don't already know what they are doing to steer clear from custom.

[lVlemphizStylez]

well thats all I was asking..I didnt know that the only DP manufacturers wouldnt sell in pieces...I didnt know that the used market was non existant for the Celica (A non-existant used market is alien to me)...And BTW nowhere did I say the kits were trash, Im certain the quality of their parts far surpassed mine (especially a kit with a GT series turbo)...

[Black_TRD]

I dont own a Digi cam..I had to borrow one today in order to take these..The pics you see are my parts..But of course they are no longer on the car..And to be honest, I never felt the urge to take pictures of a turboed B series (really not that special)..The only thing on my setup that required custom fabbing (and I wouldnt even call it that) was the cutting of the pipes from JC Whitney (Hacksaw and a few measurements). Also I had to tap my oil pan and use some Home depot oil return brass, and the dsm blue tops required you to wire in a resistor box...the DP was purchased for 200 bucks

Then what is this EH... you posted this about a week ago :gap:
what happened with the turbonetics wastegate? you realiced it was crap :eatpop:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229369

what happened here?:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229608

And a blown head gasket over here :sadpace:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219193

[lVlemphizStylez]

read the thread...the first pic was before I removed my turbo...I decided to go NA..

And as far as my exploding TB...wish I had some logical explanation..If you have one Id be happy to hear it...Real freak accident in the least

Ah and the HG..I bought a swap and it turns out I was sold a b18c with a faulty HG...And instead of removing the motor and shipping it back out to Kansas (My mistake for not buying local) I cut a deal with the shop and asked them to straighten me 500 bucks to replace the HG. So i changed my HG for 60 bucks and used the extra cash to get a few extra goodies..And Nah I wouldnt say the Turbonetics was crap..but i wanted something more reliable at 400whp

[blitzceli]

Where did you learn to back pedal like that?

[lVlemphizStylez]

Where did you learn to back pedal like that?

eh wha you mean??

[BuRn1nG]

this is getting interesting :eatpop:

[Jesse IL]

you had to run the charge pipe a whopping 2 feet from turbo outlet to the IC. The Celica has to come all the way from the back of the motor and around a very tight spot by the tow hooks. Theres a hell of a lot more engineering required on the Celica.
What's funny is that he pretends to be such a master of Honda knowledge before, but I've called him out before on this same topic about comparing apples to apples (RSX vs. Celica) and he basically just doesn't acknowledge that because he knows virtually zero about OBD-II cars with returnless fuel systems, ECU's where piggybacks don't work and engines with the exhaust ports against the firewall.

[authority 1]

Being in this business for a good # of years you learn stuff everyday one thing that I learned was if there is an off the self kit available get it less hassle then to fab your own up, recently I learned this with a customer car got a local fab shop to make me a kit long story short he ran or went belly up no one knows the truth, Had Ive know about Hass last year I would have never wasted my time or money with this custom crap.