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darkninja697
11-24-2006, 10:08 PM
ok guys. i just recently dyno'ed my car and it shocked me none the less.. evole was there with me for moral suport..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECWBpEmQti8
darkninja697
11-24-2006, 10:11 PM
oh and the numbers are 194whp/141wtq
JOHN_B
11-24-2006, 10:14 PM
Nice.! What mods do you have?
cool2miketlu
11-24-2006, 10:14 PM
hmmm they should just measure the WHP instead of the estimated flywheel HP then convert back to WHP.
darkninja697
11-24-2006, 10:26 PM
Nice.! What mods do you have?


all i have done so far is CAI and ES MM inserts. wanted to get a before turbo dyno to see how much i actually gain it... the dyno shocked me that it was that high. the guy that did it said that sometimes a car is a good bit stronger than the others off the assymbly line. don't know if that's true for the celicas but it is possible. and it's the same one evolve got tuned on with 320wtq and 313whp

hmmm they should just measure the WHP instead of the estimated flywheel HP then convert back to WHP.


:confused:
elcelicagts
11-24-2006, 10:32 PM
motor mounts and cold air intake- 194 whp? sorry dont think so.
the type of dyno should explain it all. you are probably around 165-66 whp at the most. but then again im probably just hating because of my dyno run.lol.
Blue Bomber
11-25-2006, 05:14 AM
you are probably around 165-66 whp at the most. :werd:
mr johnson
11-25-2006, 08:05 AM
mods don't contain a pfc, camshafts, higher compression pistons, or even nitrous? something seems a bit fishy...

:wtf:
mr johnson
11-25-2006, 08:06 AM
http://www.delcam.com.cn/images/fish1.jpg
mr johnson
11-25-2006, 08:07 AM
:chuckles:
Pulsar1
11-25-2006, 09:03 AM
Mmmmh I think they need to recalibrate that dyno.
cool2miketlu
11-25-2006, 10:00 AM
:confused:



Wasn't the dyno showing 200+HP? Keep hearing people saying 200+HP... Then ending shows 19xWHP so I am guessing there is a conversion.
Anyways that is way high for WHP on just CAI...
darkninja697
11-25-2006, 10:19 AM
Mmmmh I think they need to recalibrate that dyno.


maybe.. i'll give him a call today and ask about the calibration and see if i can get another run in monday to be sure... also i don't know all (if any) work was done to the engine (before purchase in 04 from used dealer) or the tranny, ecu, and flywheel (from wrecked 00 celi) when i did the auto -> 6spd swap. could be sitting on some good stuff and don't know it :(
darkninja697
11-25-2006, 10:31 AM
:confused:


Wasn't the dyno showing 200+HP?


the 204 was uncorrected.. 194 corrected
cool2miketlu
11-25-2006, 10:36 AM
BTW which gear were the dyno done at?
elcelicagts
11-25-2006, 10:41 AM
post up the dyno printout.
i would be all happy to see those numbers in your shoes also, so congrats on that.
darkninja697
11-25-2006, 10:55 AM
BTW which gear were the dyno done at?


they were 4th gear pulls

post up the dyno printout.
i would be all happy to see those numbers in your shoes also, so congrats on that.


as soon as i get it scanned i'll post up link
hombredelassrta
11-25-2006, 12:15 PM
that does seem overly high. with just intake and mounts i would think the 194 would maybe be at the crank.. maybe
jlitman
11-25-2006, 01:27 PM
ALL DYNAMOMETERS ARE DIFFERENT!!!!!!! YOU MUST GET A BASELINE AND COMPARE BEFORE AND AFTER A GIVEN MODIFICATION OR YOU CAN'T DETERMINE ANYTHING! :furious:

There is no equivalence between different types of dynos, no matter what anyone says. This has been shown over and over again... Even the same type of dyno may vary between shops, and there will usually be some variance between runs on the same car on the same day on the same dyno. That's measurement error for you :shrugs: You can only make truly meaningful comparisons if you look at the degree of change after a modification on the same car on the same dyno, and even then there will be a little variance...

If only everyone would stop thinking readings are equivalent from dyno to dyno. It is NOT like a ruler where 1 mm is always 1 mm. :faint:

Look, read, think http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222708

That said, based on everyone's shared understanding of a "true" typical reading (i.e., a reading from a dynojet 248 with similar mods), you are not making 194 whp. If we had a perfect conversion factor, you'd be right around 165.

You MIGHT be making that at the flywheel, but to find out for sure, you'd have to unbolt the engine from the car.
Blue Bomber
11-25-2006, 04:13 PM
ALL DYNAMOMETERS ARE DIFFERENT!!!!!!! YOU MUST GET A BASELINE AND COMPARE BEFORE AND AFTER A GIVEN MODIFICATION OR YOU CAN'T DETERMINE ANYTHING! :furious:That's true, but still, this dyno was incredibly far off. I can understand a 5whp difference between dynos, maybe 10, but 30? Something's definitely wrong there.
darkninja697
11-25-2006, 04:26 PM
ALL DYNAMOMETERS ARE DIFFERENT!!!!!!! YOU MUST GET A BASELINE AND COMPARE BEFORE AND AFTER A GIVEN MODIFICATION OR YOU CAN'T DETERMINE ANYTHING! :furious:That's true, but still, this dyno was incredibly far off. I can understand a 5whp difference between dynos, maybe 10, but 30? Something's definitely wrong there.


i don't know man.. this is the same dyno that evolve got tuned on for 320tq and 313hp @ 26psi
jlitman
11-25-2006, 05:40 PM
ALL DYNAMOMETERS ARE DIFFERENT!!!!!!! YOU MUST GET A BASELINE AND COMPARE BEFORE AND AFTER A GIVEN MODIFICATION OR YOU CAN'T DETERMINE ANYTHING! :furious:That's true, but still, this dyno was incredibly far off. I can understand a 5whp difference between dynos, maybe 10, but 30? Something's definitely wrong there.

On the exact same model of a given type of dyno you would expect the variance to be less, but between completely different types of dynos, they can easily vary by that much. We're all just used to thinking in whp and wtq units as measured by a dynojet 248.
Sylver1
11-25-2006, 06:23 PM
Maybe it has TRD pistons or something.
jlitman
11-25-2006, 07:57 PM
Maybe it has TRD pistons or something.

No it doesn't. Jeez. Why is it so hard to believe that each type of dyno reads hp and tq differently? :sadpace:

EDIT: Okay, to be fair, we are all used to trusting measures of physical phenomena as being relatively invariant. It just aint so for hp and tq...

Read this http://www.dmhmotorsports.net/DynoRacing.html
MDK
11-26-2006, 05:04 AM
does 204 HP are top end power

not WHP

dont no where did you get does 194 whp are where are you seeing that

put any thing is possible


a print should give better ideas on this
Jesse IL
11-26-2006, 05:30 AM
Guys, guys...watch that video again.

Specifically, watch the screen when they turn the camera on the dyno screen.

For one, that is an eddy current dyno and it will read low, which it does.

For two, the "204 whp" occurrs at a huge spike when he hits lift. Basically, that dyno means nothing, and they need to possibly recalibrate that machine so that it doesn't record huge spikes when there is a sudden change in torque.
jlitman
11-26-2006, 11:00 AM
Guys, guys...watch that video again.

Specifically, watch the screen when they turn the camera on the dyno screen.

For one, that is an eddy current dyno and it will read low, which it does.

For two, the "204 whp" occurrs at a huge spike when he hits lift. Basically, that dyno means nothing, and they need to possibly recalibrate that machine so that it doesn't record huge spikes when there is a sudden change in torque.

Actually, I've been noticing that all of the 4-wheel capable dynos tend to read higher, and I've not seen consistent evidence that suggests eddy current dynos always read higher -- but they do always seem to read very differently than inertia-type dynos :shrugs:

Anyway, I don't think it's a calibration issue per se -- I think it's estimating bhp not whp (as originally noted by coolmiketlu), and there isn't going to be a readily available or obvious correction factor to apply. I predict if another 7th gen GT-S goes down there, it will put down close to that number.
darkninja697
02-19-2007, 03:36 PM
sorry.. it's been a while.. i've been busy with other stuff and work. but i finaly got it re-dyno'ed at a different place. here is the print out. next is turbo install.. should be around th 15th of march or so :thumbup:

162whp/118wtq

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/darkninja697/gtsbase.jpg
pnoy
02-19-2007, 03:43 PM
that's much more believable
jlitman
02-19-2007, 03:46 PM
^^^ Those looks like typical values achieved for a 2ZZ with your mods on a Dynojet 248.

If you add mods, you should use that as your baseline and go back to the same shop -- if you go elsewhere, you will introduce more variance, even if it's the same type of dyno.

Ideally, you would have a new baseline taken immediately before installing and tuning for a new part, but, of course, that may not be possible.

that's much more believable
The other number was probably just as valid -- different dynos read very differently, and yes it can differ by as much as 12- 14% between types of dynos... see here: http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222708